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Geek Culture / Strange Maths Facts

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Dave J
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Posted: 30th May 2004 12:06
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Yep, kill 'em all.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Chris K
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Posted: 30th May 2004 13:49
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Whoa.

That 2 = 1 thing is just meant to be a little "spot where algebra fails" exercise.
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Jess T
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Posted: 30th May 2004 13:55
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Quote: ""spot where algebra fails""

Algebra doesn't fail there, the idiot that wrote that equation did... And probably got held back a year and failed again... and so on and so forth...

Jess.


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Tomy
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Posted: 30th May 2004 16:20
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yup JessTicular,

i actually only wanted to find something wrong because my ego was damaged for not seeing the main reason
But yes if it's numeric, then you're 100%ly correct


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Jess T
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Posted: 30th May 2004 22:45
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Quote: "100%ly"


Nice, I even got a whole word made up just to describe how correct I am...

lol, jk ( I'm not that big headed )

Jess.


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geecee3
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Posted: 31st May 2004 04:27
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hmmm, all sounds like a bit of mandelbrot madness to me, let's chuck some reals, floats, attractors, imaginaries and infinity into into a packet of rizla, smoke the lot and see how we feel. who's with me?

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 31st May 2004 06:04 Edited at: 31st May 2004 06:16
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I didnt take the time to read the whole post, but...

2=1 Could be true, but it's based on your counting system.

Perhaps like this: 1=0, 2=1, 3=2, etc.

Or maybe: 1=1,2=1,3=1,4=2,5=2,6=2, etc.

"The Sentence below is true.
The Sentence above is false."

This could depend on "the eye of the beholder", like what I think is true may be different than what you think is true.






Of Course, im just mumbling here. I am probobly wrong.

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 31st May 2004 10:53
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Quote: "The Sentence below is true.
The Sentence above is false"


this is a paradox, and if both statements were *true* then the universe as we know it would collapse.

the universe cannot exist with a paradox.

Amist the Blue Skies...
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 31st May 2004 11:38 Edited at: 31st May 2004 11:39
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Quote: ""the universe cannot exist with a paradox""
but you just said it was a paradox
Quote: ""this is a paradox""
?



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Phaelax
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Posted: 31st May 2004 12:31
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I don't know about 2=1, but my geometry teacher showed me the proof for 0=1. But I assume the proof could be applied to 2 and 1.


Quote: "Are there more green dots than red dots? "


sounds like a paradox, isn't it?

"eureka" - Archimedes
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geecee3
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Posted: 31st May 2004 16:34
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if zero is the absence of a value or NULL
and one is an absolute positive value.

i'll swap someone a 'no computer' for a 'computer'.
and i'll write 0 games and have 1 finished.
hey, i'll even take 0 weeks holidays and have 1 week off.
if you believe 0 = 1 then what have you got to loose.

regards, geecee3.

PS. logic truth tables make interesting reading. And so does anything that tries to explain things like infinity and entropy in laymans terms. Fluid dynamics are also interesting but that's taking the p!ss.

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Peter H
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Posted: 31st May 2004 17:08
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if somebody came up with 0=1 or 2=1 (on the standard number-line) they did not follow the rules of math...it's as simple as that(i.e. there is NO way (using the normal number-line) that 2=1.)

(BTW if they didn't use the normal number line then 2 is not what you think it is and 1 is not what you think it is, so they could be equal but there would be no point in it becuase they might as well be variables )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
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Gir
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Posted: 31st May 2004 19:21 Edited at: 31st May 2004 19:22
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Whoooaaa Im starting too feel naucious with all these numbers flying around the place! Like someone is spinning me round in my chair when i have a really bad hangover (yes i have a spinny chair. yay for me! )

I'm makin' a cake...
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 31st May 2004 19:25
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All the proof you will ever need to know that 2=1:



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Chaos
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Posted: 31st May 2004 21:47
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Quote: ""the universe cannot exist with a paradox""


When you think about it the universe itself is the largest paradox.

Its hard to imagine it going on forever yet it cannot possibly stop.

I always like paradoxes:

This sentance is false
&



Chaos


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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 31st May 2004 22:43
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Quote: "(1) THIS SENTENCE CONTAINS FIVE WORDS
(2) THIS SENTENCE CONTAINS EIGHT WORDS
(3) EXACTLY ONE SENTENCE ON THIS CARD IS TRUE"


I can simply say that #3 is a false statement and ignore it, and #1 is true. no paradox.

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Gir
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:14
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But then 3) would be true and therefore there would be 2 true statements and therefore 3) would be false and ENTER PARADOX!!! AHHHHhhh!!!

I'm makin' a cake...
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:26
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Err, no.

1)True
2)False
3)False

#3 can be false, and number 1 can still be true.

A better one would be:

1)This sentence has five words.
2)Only one sentence between these two is true.

The 3-sentence example above can also be shown like this:

1)Bob is sane.
2)Jill is insane.
3)Tommy is sane, but knows only one person between the 3 is sane.

Insane people don't know their insane. So eliminate 2 and 3, and there is your one.

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Gir
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:15
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I'm makin' a cake...
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:42
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Quote: "1)True
2)False
3)False"


That would mean that 3 is true ..... blah blah blah smily smily blah
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:53
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What's everyone's favourite piece of maths?

Without a doubt mine is e^i*pi + 1 = 0

Simply stunning.
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geecee3
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 05:58 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 06:11
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math is so amazing.

now for more head messing up stuff!


the universe does go on for ever, it just needs an infinite amount of time to fill the infinite nothingness that surrounds it with the finite amount of material that makes up what we call the physical universe. at the edge of the universe the real void begins. you can't measure it in any way. because the universe has not expanded into it yet and if it has, then you are no longer at the edge of the universe. by entering the void at the edge of the universe you actually take the edge with you. as you, yourself are a bit of the universe.

Something else of interest, time is relevant to motion. and time is relevant to speed. if you have no speed, then you have no time. If you could be on the very edge of the universe, time would pass more slowly as the extreme amount of outwardly motion actually creates more time for universal events to occur. the farthest edges of the universe contain the fastest moving particles which are travelling almost at the speed of light in a direction opposite to the source of gravity (the center of the universe). to reach the edge of the universe would require all the energy of the big bang to propel you to the speeds necessary to get there. Now if you could be at the exact center of the universe, you would have no speed. And if the boffins are correct. you would witness the birth and death of the universe at the same time. because there is no additional time made available via motion to seperate the universal events.

Time for bed now.

regards, geecee3.

PS.The ambient temperature of the universe is currently about 2.725 degrees Kelvin.. ...bloody freezing!!! when this hits 0 degrees kelvin, then the sh!t will really hit the fan. hmmm, does that mean the universe as a whole is superconductive of it's own internal energies?

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flibX0r
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 10:41 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 10:42
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Quote: "e^i*pi + 1 = 0"


Dat true, because e^(i*pi) = -1

this is because:

cis(x) = e^(i*x)
cis(x) = cos(x) + i*sin(x)
cis(pi) = cos(pi) + i*sin(pi)
cis(pi) = -1
e^(i*pi) = -1

Aren't complex numbers fun?

Even better:
(cis(x))^y = cis(xy)

freaky


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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 11:01 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 11:01
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Quote: "Even better:
(cis(x))^y = cis(xy)"


That's not even better.
E to the i... contains every fundamental constant (0, 1, pi, i and e) They were all discovered seperately and all have numerous other surprising uses (like that river thing) and they all come together in the simplest, most elegant equation you could imagine.
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:32
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Does anybody speak english anymore?

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Jess T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 19:15 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 19:16
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@geecee3,

I'm afraid that you've misunderstood alot of physics there. Unless you're talking hyperthetically of course.
A few major points is that, if your not moving, there is still time.
It's just been *Hypothesised* by Newton and Einstein and some others I can't think of right now, that the speed of light is constant, and thus, time, mass and length are relative to your speed.

But if you stopped moving ( ie, you were at the centre of the universe, according to the "Big-Bang" theory ), then time would not simply just stop ( relative to the person at the centre of the universe ).

Personally, I think that the constant of the speed of light is a load of crap ( and, yes, I have heard the full story, and am quite well enough informed to make that statement, so please don't flame me ).

Although, if we do go along with the Theory of Special Relativety...
Here's an interesting peice of info...
As you approach the speed of light, time ( relative to someone who is stationary ) will slow down for you ( to you, it would appear that everything else is speeding up ).
Now, in theory, if you got to the speed of light, time ( relative to the stationary person ) for you would stop. Thus, if you passed the speed of light, you would go back in time ( beleive it or not, this is Theoretically possible ).
And, to add to that, scientists have managed to get light to travel faster than the speed of light ( which is just not possible according to Spec. Relativity ) by passing a laser through cold ceizium ( however it's spelt ).

@Flibble... what is "cis" ? Is that the Logarithmic function ( Inverse Log ) ? And what is "i" ??

Jess.

@LIT,
We are speaking English, it's not our fault if you don't have the noggin capacity to understand it... lol, I'm just kiddin bro


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Powersoft
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:09
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my god 126 posts wow

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:13 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 20:17
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Quote: "@Flibble... what is "cis" ? Is that the Logarithmic function ( Inverse Log ) ? And what is "i" ??"


i is the imaginary number.
i^2 is -1.

There is a whole series of imaginary numbers, just like there is a series of real numbers. They aren't positive or negative, they go straight up from the 0 point on a number line.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Cis.html

Oops. You can have negative imaginary numbers but they're not quite the same.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/i.html
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:01
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Quote: ""scientists have managed to get light to travel faster than the speed of light""


How can that be? If light is moving faster than the speed of light then is not the speed of light = to how fast the faster light particles are moving So the majority of light is moving slower than the speed of light? And how do we know that light is not just in first gear anyway It's all Theory. I'll leave the advanced math to yall. (yes "yall") I'll stick with my simple math.

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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:04
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The point of the speed of light is that its meant to be a constant (I think it actually is).

It isn't meant to change, that's why it can be used in E=MC^2

If you can get light to travel at different speeds then the speed of light isn't a constant
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Powersoft
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:09
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in E=MC^2 what is M and C

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:06
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M is Mass and C is the speed of light

It means that any object's energy is equal to it's mass times the speed of light squared.

That's a lot of energy
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Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 16:29
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Quote: "Quote: ""scientists have managed to get light to travel faster than the speed of light""

How can that be? If light is moving faster than the speed of light then is not the speed of light = to how fast the faster light particles are moving So the majority of light is moving slower than the speed of light? And how do we know that light is not just in first gear anyway It's all Theory."


Exactly, that's why I say I don't beleive alot of it.
That and I am fully sceptical about the whole Laws of the Universe stuff etc etc etc.
I mean, I use, and fully understand all of these concepts ( except that imaginary number one ), and think that they are really usefull for determining things... But, I still think that it's all a load of cr@p, and alot is just coincidence.

Jess.


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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 17:00
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What's a load of crap?
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Jess T
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 17:00
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Physics. The "Laws Of The Universe". The Theory(s) Of Special Relativety.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 17:30
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Quote: "if zero is the absence of a value or NULL"


But zero isn't null. At least not in computer terms.

"eureka" - Archimedes
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 19:19
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"NULL" is a pointer to void

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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 19:36
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Might find this interesting : http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/glossary1.htm


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Keep your friends close, and your cats even closer.
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 20:09
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Quote: "Circular Reasoning - see Recursive Arguments
Recursive Arguments - see Circular Reasoning"


heh heh, thats a good one

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JM Studios
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 00:44 Edited at: 4th Jun 2004 00:45
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Another question to think about: What does infinity equal? I think it has no value because it is always increasing,therefore it has no definate number.

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Chris K
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 01:07
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Yeah, that's right.

You can't make it equal anything.
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 01:59
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I = 1/0

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Killswitch
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 02:48
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Infinity can equal anything:

_______

There is an infinite amount of points in the line above:
______________

But this line is twice as long, so have I just doubled infinity?

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
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the_winch
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 03:48
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Quote: "There is an infinite amount of points in the line above:"


If there really where an infinate ammount of points in that line then no matter how small the points are how can the line be anything but infinatly long?

can i scream
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Jacava
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 12:29
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One thing: infinity is not a number. It is a theory. It only describes numbers that are too big to find or work out. Time for some rambling, so if you are nearly asleep by the end, don't blame me. I warned you.
Imagine yourself in the middle of the universe. You can go anywhere at any speed up to the speed of light. You decide to go straight up. But which way is up? It could be anywhere. For all you know you could be standing on your head. Anyway, you carry on at the speed of light to the edge of the Universe. Where is the edge? (You'd be dead after you'd gone past a few stars anyway: too far).
Once you get to the edge of the Universe, where now? Outside? Why not? But what's out there? Nothingness? Another universe? Infinity universes? Is that when you come out of one you find yourself in another? Do you just go to the other side and start again? Nobody knows. That's why they come up with one theory after another.
As does nobody know the value of infinity. They don't know the biggest number ever, so they come up with a theory: infinity. Therefore, infinity is not an actual number.

"You shouldn't get praise for doing something, but for having the courage to do it."
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flibX0r
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 12:59
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@Jess

"cis", or more correctly, "cis x", is the mathematical abbreviation for "cos(x) + i*sin(x)". Its used to describe coordinates on the complex plane using polar coordinates.

i is the square root of -1. it i the imaginary number.

You know how multiplying something by -1 is like rotating it 180 degrees (along the number line anyway)? Well multiplying a number by i is like rotating it 90 degrees anticlockwise. You can see this on the complex plane:



Its like a 2d graph but the x axis is the real numbers and the y axis is the imaginary numbers


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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 13:13
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Quote: "
Infinity can equal anything:

_______

There is an infinite amount of points in the line above:
______________

But this line is twice as long, so have I just doubled infinity?
"


the_winch is right, if the line had an infinity amount of points, you shouldnt be able to see the end of the line. No matter how small the points are.

Quote: "
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Jess T
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 18:55
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Flibble,

Ah, ok... Well, that's interesting... I must ask my math teacher why we aren't learning that stuff ( TBH, I think she mentioned something about it not too long ago... not sure though ).

Jess.


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Powersoft
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 12:55
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so basically INFINITY could equal NULL because if they are both unsigned then surely its possible

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
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Jess T
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 17:12
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No.

You don't quite understand...

Ok, lets say that you had a simple number line...

It goes on FOREVER in both directions ( +'ve and -'ve ).

Now, you can imagein the numbers getting up to Billions... We've all heard of billions, and we all know how much it is... And then we could even imagin the numbers getting up to Tillions ( that's a bloddy large amount ). But... what about a Trillion Trillion... or something that has another 1000 0's at the end... Now those are MASSIVE numbers. And way beyond our comprehension.

Our minds simply cannot imagein those numbers... Thus, we named them Infinity.

Null is nothing, therefore it is not Infinity.

Jess.


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