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The 20 Line Challenge / Plans for starting up the 20 line challenge again?

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 30th May 2004 14:41
Now that DBDN is going to be scrapped, I think it's time to start up the 20 line challenge again. I think a prize of a free TGC supported product (ie. anything along that top menu, maybe minus Gamespace due to the price tag) would be good. That'd be rather a good initiative for people to try and make some impressive 20 liners again. I think also you should consider taking the command limit down to 5 per line again, as I think the change disagreed with a few people here. Any plans TGC? Any ideas anyone else?

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TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 30th May 2004 16:03
The 20 line challenge was good and I agree it should be started again. And I really want DBPro or Catography Shop!

Current Projects: Dark_Worlds_Map_Editor version0.1 aneale5@orange.esinet.org.uk
Freddix
AGK Developer
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 17:59
yes it could be a good challenge for all if we can choose between 2 or 3 products ... instead of simply DBPro because most of us even own it

Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:32
Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 14:06
I would love to win Dbpro

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 01:18
What would be cool:

If you won more than one 20 Line Contest, you could trade in your prizes for something of greater value. Perhaps 3 Cartography Shops = 1 Gamespace (im not looking at the prices now, just guesstimating)

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David T
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 15:21 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2004 15:21
Maybe we would have a "rewards" system where get get points for entering registration codes for products purchased from this site... you can then exchange points for other prixes worth less, or save up for free software.

Something similar to the Nintendo Stars system - or BA air miles

You could win points off this contest too

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 13:14
I think just a straight forward, you make the best 20 liner, you get one of these prizes would be good . A rewards system would be too confusing :S.

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Kequor
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 19:24 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 19:25
The rewards system would be dumb because you would have to buy there products in order to win them. It dosn't make any sense.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

UberTuba
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 02:58
true.
Some form of prize would be good, though.

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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 12:30
You should be able to choose your own reward, but it has the be under $140 or something

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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 07:22
Maybe you could ask me to keep track of points for the rewards system if you do it

Go to http://www.freewebs.com/gamesdbpro Thats my website
Mitchell
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 16:27
DBPRO!!

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
- Shigeru Miyamoto
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 19:30
Who votes the reward system I have 1

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sarin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 00:27
why not just have a reward of having your program posted on the side of the front page? id make a 20line program for that. cmon, do ya really need some 100$ dollar item to spend 3 hours coding? i would gladly do something like that for free.

Sarin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 03:38
lets just leave it as "do it for the glory of DarkBasic!"

@sarin - not everyone spends "just" 3 hours on a 20liner

@everyone else - it doesn't realy matter what votes, its what the TGC staff decides, besides, like sarin said why do you need a "reward" to show off your programing tallents?

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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 06:52
Well TGC staff what do you think?

I'd say it's up to TGC too

Go to http://www.freewebs.com/gamesdbpro Thats my website
sarin
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 11:47
okay, i was going kinda liberal there (i meant two), but okay, not everyone can write 20 lines in 3 hours.
but thats not the point.
why get greedy and say: if i win a contest then why dont i get this?
why not be happy with a great game creating software? For what the game creators delivered, ill do a 20 line program free anyday.

Sarin
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 20th Jun 2004 13:52
I think points system is stupid, straight forward prize is all it needs.

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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 05:53
Hmm, seems like TGC dosen't care

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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 07:30
OH well

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Final Epsilon
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 10:04
hm...... we should have prizes, because it gives people more initiative to do things. ^_^ And then we can start seeing nice 20-liners again.
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 10:18
I'm not in this conversation anymore

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Kohaku
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 12:35
DBPRO!!

Infra-Dark
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 14:44
Yeah I'd like other things I'll fill my cart then I'll decide whatI want I'll stay in the conversation

Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 01:26 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 01:27
TGC never checks this board(i mean come on you could post porn here and they would never see it ...not that i would want to do that ) so you might want to post this in the general chat...


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 04:38
good idea I'll do that now

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 04:46
TGC isn't intrested I guess maybe someone will come along and like the idea and tell TGC .

Kentaree
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 00:23
Maybe you could consider that the people working in TGC have better things to do than read through the entire forum all the time?

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adr
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 06:45 Edited at: 7th Jul 2004 06:46
I'd just like to say that the only things that would be given away would be:

dark matter
dark matter 2
terrain plugin
DBC
DBP

Can you spot a trend? That's right, they're all made by TGC. All of the other products are sold through TGC's site - TGC don't own them. Let's suppose I'm the writer of CartShop. I want money from every person who's using that program - whether my reseller gave it away or not.

I could be wrong. I'd be surprised if I was, I just don't want people to get their hopes up, or get angry when they don't win a copy of Gile[s].

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 07:46
Good point Adr.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 14:17
Personally I like the idea of the challenge starting up again.
I also believe prizes should be given away, but rather than the previous setup which was:

Win & Recieve Dark Basic Pro, I think that should be altered.
I do like the idea of the Nintendo VIP Star System, because that means you can win Multiple times and that would mean people would put in alot of effort to get something like the Terrain Plugin or Physics Plugin.

You might think that sounds silly to still have to buy it, but as you'll be handing no money over for it; it's a case of earning what you want rather than being given it.

I also believe that a system should be introduced to in which users vote for who they believe should win from candidates.
This should mean that if someone decides to submit a 5line code which simply displays all the ascii characters, they're code will deservedly be snubbed by the forum.

The idea of the 20line challenge is to show your sweet programming skills in DB/Ehd/Pro not show what you can achieve in 20lines having read the manual.

The voting system would also mean it free's Rich from having to sit down and decide a winner for that month.
Should also be a section of the site in the showcase which shows the 20line challenge winners.

Tomy
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Posted: 8th Jul 2004 08:29 Edited at: 8th Jul 2004 08:29
Wow those are some great ideas Raven
Tho there are two problems:
-There will be some guys who'll vote for their own 20 liner
-What the heck is Ehd??


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Kohaku
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Posted: 8th Jul 2004 08:39
A1) they lose a point

A2) DBC V1.13 Enhanced

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Tomy
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 03:44
ah lol

But what annoys me is that TGC don't seem to care about this!


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 04:15
Or they just haven't seen it. I would email Rich, but my last 4 emails don't seem to have gotten through.

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Tomy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 23:06
Well then i'm annoyed that they never look in the 20 liners forum


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geecee3
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 11:52
The 20 line challenge is what got me to join this forum thingy in the first place. being able to produce something of worth in 20 lines of code is a good challenge. It allows you to show off your coding skills without the need to write a sprawling game.

20 lines is 20*256 characters which is 5120 bytes of code. in my opinion, you should be allowed 2Mb of supporting media instead of the poor 200k for the whole shebang we have at the moment. this would allow the individual making their 20 liner to show off any additional skills they may posess. I would also make it a monthly compo instead of a challenge. and give it a space in the newsletter.

If TGC plays the prizes game, they could find they were in a win win situation. Why? Promotional demos and extra content for future releases.

What better an advert for the dark basic series of software, than a cool as .... 20 liner with 2MB of well made supporting media.

Also I think that there shoud be a classic AND a PRO version of the challenge / compo, as a more simple version of the language is harder to make impressive code with, making the challenge even greater.

For a company that THINKS it's at the heart of the home games coder scene, it runs way too little competitions, we need a good compo at least 3 times a year with REALLY amazing prizes ( I missed the alien ware compo, boo ). After all, it's us coders who provide most of the downloadable content this site uses to promote it's products and it's large community. Without us, they would be nothing.

It's time TGC got it's finger out of it's rusty sheriff badge and gave back what it seems to be just taking from us at the moment.

Thanks for your time in this matter, geecee3.

geecee3
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 12:13
Everyone who wants to see compos and prizes should just start a thread saying so, as the first post in each new thread is sent to TGC for checking to see if its something worthwhile. (you know, something they can use to promote themselves and their services and products.) Ads and plugs for software shoud be left out of the newsletter. If our FREE content is being used as in-between product plugs and ads padding. then they should be giving us more free stuff and great compos to enter. after all it can only benefit them, and most of us get NOTHING in real terms for all the hard work we put in on our creations that they then showcase to promote their products.

again, thanks. geecee3.

PS. sorry for the tangent blast, but i have strong feelings on the abuse of other peoples skill and time. and it IS abuse.

Kohaku
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 02:28
I'll drink to that.

Infra-Dark
Final Epsilon
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 12:48
Same here!

so... do we have a plan for catching the attention of all the important people?
geecee3
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 00:06
how about a DEMO of the coded flavour, We could code a real mean demo (more than 20 lines), and within this demo we could put the names of all the coders who want to see a bit more in the way of compos and prizes. A scroller based demo where everyone gets a chance to have their say in the scroller. If this demo is good enough, it will be seen by a lot of people and help gain support for the coder massive and mabey help acheive the goal of a more compo based forum. especially if every single contributer to the demo puts a link to it in every single post they make, also the sigs at the bottom of each post could have a common graphic of sorts that shows the unity of the coders on this forum who want to see change. failing that, we should form a UNION of coders who will all stick up for each other in the event the TGC staff get a bit heavy handed. after all it's your right to demonstrate for ANYTHING you feel needs to be changed.

Now, This could cause some problems. If you have seen the state that BLITZ CODERS has gotten itself into (YES I USE THE OTHER PACKAGE AS WELL). Members been banned for speaking out against certain aspects of the way that forum and company have been running things. We don't want to get our beloved forum closed down because it has decended into chaos. But at the same time we must also fight for what we think is right and just. TGC needs us to test it's bug ridden programs so as they can try to get problems fixed for the next release or fix. We do not get payed for this work. In fact we get NOTHING for this service. Also this RANDOM USER getting a free copy of DBP every month is a bit of a joke. It really is. This would be much better as a monthly prize for the best 20 line DBC program.

It is also my feeling that EVERYONE who has a showcase app on this site should recieve some sort of reward for providing this content for TGC to use as promo material. Some of the games on offer really are amazing. and the total number of man hours that goes into making such things is atronomical. again for a NULL reward.

As an individuals, we can make very little impact on these matters, But as an ARMY of coders WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.


If the brown stuff hits the fan. I'm sure that between us, We could hire a fast server and create our own forum of PURE CODERS AND SUPPORTING ARTISTS (no real business intrest or profit margines to meet) and let TGC get on with what they are doing now.

CHANGE is something that ALL forum members should involved in, no matter how new they are to the programming game. It's our future as coders which matters, not the BUSINESS intrests of the company that provides these forums. BUT at the end of the day we want TGC to be a place that looks after it's main assets (being us). and we want TGC to be successful and a major player in the home coder scene. I personally love the products (even the buggy ones). And if TGC were to play the game properly then they would find that as well as giving products away for free as prizes, they would probably find that they will sell a hell of a lot more copies of their products as a result. the community would get larger and the constant competition would drive up the standards of code and supporting materials ( which are already high, but could be a LOT better). This is a super important subject matter which effects us all as coders. so please think about all the different ways that you think a difference could be made to this forum and post them right here or just start another thread.

regards fellow coding massive. geecee3. PEACE and LOVE to all.

CPU
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 02:55
Ya know geecee3, if you want to form a union so bad and want TGC to start handing out prizes and so on, think about it this way, if you were running TGC and the money for the prizes had to come out of your own pocket would you do it? Think about it. I'm supprized that TGC doesn't ban more people than it does or has restricted membership because of all the junk, dissenting material toward TGC, and stuped questions asked from lazy people who don't even take the time to read the help file or experiment and then get mad because no one answers there questions. Well that's about all I have to say.

CPU

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geecee3
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 03:05
If i was a fairly big business, aparrently selling a lot of software then yes!!

Opinions and feeling are important, and i'm not the only one who wants to see change, do NOT single me out as the lone instigator, I did not start this thread, I was merely stating a valid point!

and what happened to freedom of speech?

Ilya
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 14:41
Well if they used the apps for something...

But then why would they limit them to 20 lines and 200k?

-Ilya
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Posted: 26th Jul 2004 15:32
what if they gave out a free copy of dbc or dbpro as a prize

Ilya
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Posted: 28th Jul 2004 05:44
I don't know if i would play. I don't want DBC and have DBP. I could collect DBP boxes(or sell them).

-Ilya
Dark Coyote
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Posted: 30th Jul 2004 00:57
I thought you did get something in return for having your work in the showcase, you get your talent and skills promoted to everyone who visits the site. When you go to a job interview you can tell them your work is being used to sell dark basic
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 31st Jul 2004 09:43
I'm with you greecee3 the only thing is I'm still learning dbpro but I could help a little.

geecee3
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Posted: 4th Aug 2004 05:05
I'm not for starting a revolution or anything like that, LOL.

prizes could be anything from software to media, mabey even darkBASIC mugs, t shirts, TGC mousemats, that sort of thing. nothing that would cost a great deal of money, but still have much value as prizes won doing what you love.

peace, geecee3.

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