Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Program Announcements / Coming Soon : Get the value of PI

Author
Message
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 00:42
Ah - I'll let you off then...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Benjamin
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 11:33
thinks he knows everything...

not you, MrTAToad, you DO know a lot and you have proved it

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 14:13
I know - I'm just great...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Puffy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 19:44
I do love your bitmapped text thingy... =)

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 20:27
Glad you like it... Have you tried any of my other things yet ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Puffy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Feb 2003 22:52
Yup...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 00:48
Ah good!

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Benjamin
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 21:08
lol

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 22:14
Hope you've tried some plug-ins too...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 23:29
"I know - I'm just great..."

But truly great men are modest Toady

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Benjamin
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 23:40
I havent tried any of ur plugins...i wanna but i dont know where to get them...?

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Feb 2003 23:46
Note the www button at the bottom of each of my posts...

Darthy - And even greater men are totally ostentatious...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Puffy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 12th Feb 2003 03:31
LOL!!!!

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2003 19:11
What's so good about PI? (n00b blast coming up)

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2003 19:36
Plenty of things - you can create circles and things with it.

Plus, you can create a topic with it.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2003 19:50
NEWSFLASH : CIRCLE X,Y,Radius

Woh oh, the value of PI is very useful to me now.
=================================================
SARCASM-SARCASM-SARCASM-SARCASM-SARCASM-SARCASM
=================================================

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 12th Feb 2003 21:48
Well, duh!

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Puffy
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 03:05
Daz... shush... he didnt mean create an actual circle...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
heartbone
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 07:50
I see this thread is still going strong.

The value of pi must be decreasing.

I've seen two different sales this week.
Edmonds Key Lime, 2 slices for $2,
and Chocolate Turtle for the same price!

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
heartbone
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 07:58
I've been waiting for Raven to add his 37ยข, where is he when needed? Oh well..............
-----------------------------------------------------------
Near a Raven
The poem below was composed in 1995 and bears an uncanny similarity to a certain famous poem by Edgar Allen Poe. This is one of my longer pieces of constrained writing. Constrained writing (an old idea, but one which greatly increased in popularity in the latter half of the 20th century as a result of the work of the mostly French group Oulipo) is the art of constructing a work of prose or poetry that obeys one or more artificially-imposed rules. For example, there are two published novels from which the letter 'e' is absent - Gadsby, by Ernest Vincent Wright (1938), and La disparition by George Perec (still in print, and even available in a recent English translation (A Void, translated by Gilbert Adair) that also obeys the constraint!).

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to figure out the constraint imposed on this poem. The answer is given after the end, so if you want to try to figure it out, just look at the beginning of the poem, which is probably both necessary and sufficient to discover the rule. If you'd like a veiled hint, here's one: this poem could not have been written prior to 1947, since all the details of the rule it uses were not known before then.

Poe, E.
Near a Raven


Midnights so dreary, tired and weary.
Silently pondering volumes extolling all by-now obsolete lore.
During my rather long nap - the weirdest tap!
An ominous vibrating sound disturbing my chamber's antedoor.
"This", I whispered quietly, "I ignore".

Perfectly, the intellect remembers: the ghostly fires, a glittering ember.
Inflamed by lightning's outbursts, windows cast penumbras upon this floor.
Sorrowful, as one mistreated, unhappy thoughts I heeded:
That inimitable lesson in elegance - Lenore -
Is delighting, exciting...nevermore.

Ominously, curtains parted (my serenity outsmarted),
And fear overcame my being - the fear of "forevermore".
Fearful foreboding abided, selfish sentiment confided,
As I said, "Methinks mysterious traveler knocks afore.
A man is visiting, of age threescore."

Taking little time, briskly addressing something: "Sir," (robustly)
"Tell what source originates clamorous noise afore?
Disturbing sleep unkindly, is it you a-tapping, so slyly?
Why, devil incarnate!--" Here completely unveiled I my antedoor--
Just darkness, I ascertained - nothing more.

While surrounded by darkness then, I persevered to clearly comprehend.
I perceived the weirdest dream...of everlasting "nevermores".
Quite, quite, quick nocturnal doubts fled - such relief! - as my intellect said,
(Desiring, imagining still) that perchance the apparition was uttering a whispered "Lenore".
This only, as evermore.

Silently, I reinforced, remaining anxious, quite scared, afraid,
While intrusive tap did then come thrice - O, so stronger than sounded afore.
"Surely" (said silently) "it was the banging, clanging window lattice."
Glancing out, I quaked, upset by horrors hereinbefore,
Perceiving: a "nevermore".

Completely disturbed, I said, "Utter, please, what prevails ahead.
Repose, relief, cessation, or but more dreary 'nevermores'?"
The bird intruded thence - O, irritation ever since! -
Then sat on Pallas' pallid bust, watching me (I sat not, therefore),
And stated "nevermores".

Bemused by raven's dissonance, my soul exclaimed, "I seek intelligence;
Explain thy purpose, or soon cease intoning forlorn 'nevermores'!"
"Nevermores", winged corvus proclaimed - thusly was a raven named?
Actually maintain a surname, upon Pluvious seashore?
I heard an oppressive "nevermore".

My sentiments extremely pained, to perceive an utterance so plain,
Most interested, mystified, a meaning I hoped for.
"Surely," said the raven's watcher, "separate discourse is wiser.
Therefore, liberation I'll obtain, retreating heretofore -
Eliminating all the 'nevermores' ".

Still, the detestable raven just remained, unmoving, on sculptured bust.
Always saying "never" (by a red chamber's door).
A poor, tender heartache maven - a sorrowful bird - a raven!
O, I wished thoroughly, forthwith, that he'd fly heretofore.
Still sitting, he recited "nevermores".

The raven's dirge induced alarm - "nevermore" quite wearisome.
I meditated: "Might its utterances summarize of a calamity before?"
O, a sadness was manifest - a sorrowful cry of unrest;
"O," I thought sincerely, "it's a melancholy great - furthermore,
Removing doubt, this explains 'nevermores' ".

Seizing just that moment to sit - closely, carefully, advancing beside it,
Sinking down, intrigued, where velvet cushion lay afore.
A creature, midnight-black, watched there - it studied my soul, unawares.
Wherefore, explanations my insight entreated for.
Silently, I pondered the "nevermores".

"Disentangle, nefarious bird! Disengage - I am disturbed!"
Intently its eye burned, raising the cry within my core.
"That delectable Lenore - whose velvet pillow this was, heretofore,
Departed thence, unsettling my consciousness therefore.
She's returning - that maiden - aye, nevermore."

Since, to me, that thought was madness, I renounced continuing sadness.
Continuing on, I soundly, adamantly forswore:
"Wretch," (addressing blackbird only) "fly swiftly - emancipate me!"
"Respite, respite, detestable raven - and discharge me, I implore!"
A ghostly answer of: "nevermore".

" 'Tis a prophet? Wraith? Strange devil? Or the ultimate evil?"
"Answer, tempter-sent creature!", I inquired, like before.
"Forlorn, though firmly undaunted, with 'nevermores' quite indoctrinated,
Is everything depressing, generating great sorrow evermore?
I am subdued!", I then swore.

In answer, the raven turned - relentless distress it spurned.
"Comfort, surcease, quiet, silence!" - pleaded I for.
"Will my (abusive raven!) sorrows persist unabated?
Nevermore Lenore respondeth?", adamantly I encored.
The appeal was ignored.

"O, satanic inferno's denizen -- go!", I said boldly, standing then.
"Take henceforth loathsome "nevermores" - O, to an ugly Plutonian shore!
Let nary one expression, O bird, remain still here, replacing mirth.
Promptly leave and retreat!", I resolutely swore.
Blackbird's riposte: "nevermore".

So he sitteth, observing always, perching ominously on these doorways.
Squatting on the stony bust so untroubled, O therefore.
Suffering stark raven's conversings, so I am condemned, subserving,
To a nightmare cursed, containing miseries galore.
Thus henceforth, I'll rise (from a darkness, a grave) -- nevermore!

-- Original: E. Poe
-- Redone by measuring circles.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
heartbone
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 08:01
Solution:

Despite the rather difficult constraint (to be revealed shortly), this pastiche of "The Raven" attempts to follow the story, tone, and rhyme scheme of the original as closely as possible - even, for instance, including the internal rhymes in the first and third line of each stanza. The first major structural concession in our version is that the original has six lines per stanza, with the fourth and fifth lines usually being very similar. Due to the nature of the constraint I imposed (revealed in the next paragraph), this would have been nearly impossible to do. Therefore, this version eliminates the similar line in each stanza. The second major shortcoming is that most of the highly regular meter in Poe's original is lost. Although it's not impossible to capture meter using this constraint, it's hard, so I decided not to attempt it but to concentrate on other aspects of the poem.

To reveal the constraint under which I labored, start at the very beginning (with the word 'Poe') and write next to each word the number of letters it contains. Put a decimal point after the first digit. Look at the first few digits (or more if, like me, you know the first several hundred by heart). Now do you see?!

Even given the difficult constraint, strong echoes of the original are still present. The very first line, although its meter is wrong, is surprisingly close. Others which are very close, even to the point of using many of the same words, are stanza 4 line 5, stanza 6 line 3, stanza 7 line 4, and stanza 15, line 1. Observe how most of the stanzas are engineered to end with some form of the word "nevermore", as they should.

Note the use of the term "blackbird" a couple of times. Though not, strictly speaking, correct (a raven is a black bird, not a blackbird), the term is particularly appropriate. It is a reference to George Perec's La disparition, and in particular its English translation (A Void) by Gilbert Adair. A Void contains another written-with-constraints version of "The Raven" - in this case the constraint being "write it without using the letter 'e'". Of course, this means the title has to be different, too, since "The Raven" contains the letter 'e'. The title of Adair's poem is (wait for it...) Black Bird!

"Near a Raven" encodes the first 740 decimals of pi. To be explicit, the encoding rule is this: a word of N letters represents

- the digit N if N<10
- the digit 0 if N=10, and
- two adjacent digits if N>10
(e.g., a 12-letter word represents the digit '1' followed by '2').

Word-length pi mnemonics have been around a long time. An old chestnut, but still one of the best, is:

How I need a drink, alcoholic in nature, after the heavy lectures involving quantum mechanics!

A much less well-known example is this nice poem by Joseph Shipley (1960):

But a time I spent wandering in bloomy night;
Yon tower, tinkling chimewise, loftily opportune.
Out, up, and together came sudden to Sunday rite,
The one solemnly off to correct plenilune.


Good night?

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
empty
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 13:48
Very, very interesting.

Ogres have layers.
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 15:08
Yes, very, very, VERY interesting...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 18:52
HOW ABOUT NO, you crazy poet basket!
J/K, I'll chill now.

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 18:54
Hey, I know that, that poem was off The Simpsons, one of the halloween specials! Neat!

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 20:52
It wasn't written for The Simpsons you know...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 20:59
I know, but it was on it.

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 13th Feb 2003 21:22
Certainly was.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Arrow
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 14th Feb 2003 20:11
That's just a badly done reiteration of "The Raven". I got the original somewhere, and it's much better.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
empty
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 14th Feb 2003 21:40
It's not only a reiteration.
Constrained writing is quite difficult- depending on the rules, of course.

Ogres have layers.
Daz
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 14th Feb 2003 21:53
Okay, I'm ready to learn now. PI is one long number (just looked it up), sheesh, that big. Okay, how could I benefit from this calculation?

DarkBASIC Professional is the best programming utility.
8/10 Housewives agree!
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Feb 2003 00:33
Well, you can write your own cirle routine for a start...

No doubt there are many other uses - just cant think of any at the moment.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
IanM
Retired Moderator
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 15th Feb 2003 00:50
Or your own ellipse routine, or a half-a-circle routine, or ...
heartbone
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 15th Feb 2003 00:52
Frequency domain signal analysis is a very good use.
See equation 2 here.
http://http://www.holtzmaninc.com/web_a.pdf

You know the Fast Fourier Transform.
http://http://www.spd.eee.strath.ac.uk/~interact/fourier/dft/dftmaths.html#dft_equation

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
Leade
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Feb 2003 17:38
Pi() Well actually i prefer Cake()
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Feb 2003 17:53
oh yes...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Arrow
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 26th Feb 2003 04:08
Why bring this up again?

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Feb 2003 12:25
I didn't...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Arrow
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 26th Feb 2003 20:24
The question is not who, but why? *Puffs on pipe like Sherlok Homes*

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
empty
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 1st Mar 2003 01:04
Elementary, Watson.

Ogres have layers.
MrTAToad
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Mar 2003 16:15
Quite

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2020-07-14 21:32:51
Your offset time is: 2020-07-14 21:32:51