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Geek Culture / Religion related post Read at your own risk

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Plastico
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 18:09
boy, the topic of religon is one that is impossible to argue. All I can say is this, when we die, if there isnt anything then we just....die, but if there is, then we are screwed(whos we?)

nature is to complex to just bang and its here. whats more rediculous? the creation story or the big bang theory? I believe there is a God, I am a catholic, I go to church every sunday, I pray every night, and as far as I see it, I wont go to hell. but hell does need kindling, and you aethiests sure make good kindling.(chilling)
Killswitch
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 19:23
Plastico you do realise you can't scare an aethiest by telling him/ her that they're going to hell? They don't believe it exists!

@Goth0taku

I never knew about the mutation of the ovaries thingy, but wouldnt the resulting baby be a clone of the mother, as there are no other genes avaliable than her own (eggs have half you genes and sperm have the other half - thats why your half your mum and half your dad - for those who don't know).

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 20:07
Quote: "Nope, world wide Christianity has the largest number of proponents. However, if you divide the world in two Christianity would still be the biggest religion in Europe/America but would probably come in second for Asia."

umm no...

i asia u'll find hinduism is the biggest
and as for europe, well its predicted that with the conversion rate so high, by 2016 the main religeon in the UK will be islam.

Quote: "Actually, theoretically it could be possible for there to be a virgin birth without divine intervention because it's been seen in other animals where a female can become pregnant through a mutation in the ovaries. However, it's never been properly seen with humans (meaning observed scientifically) nor has a male animal resulted from such a birth. "

what people dont realise is that this kind of thing appears a lot, not only in the religeous facter but also many saints have also been born without a father.

Quote: "Plastico you do realise you can't scare an aethiest by telling him/ her that they're going to hell? They don't believe it exists! "


dont worry killswitch ur goin to heaven ^_^ just cos ur an athiest doesnt make u a bad person, thats just wrong.

Quote: "Unbelieveable, it still doesn't sink into your skull only one religion can be right? "

thats only the thinking of a proportion of the worlds population, i thought we established that.

on the matters of right and wrong, i dont think there is a right religeon, all you can do is try and choose the most accurate, but that would differ to everyone's oppinions, depending on what set of beliefs seems the most sensible, ie, might think "jesus was just a magician" so then goes to buddism instead, or something like that.

the reason i say there is no 100% right religeon is that even the most recent religeons have had time to change, get misenterpretted etc.

Anomaly
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 21:01
Quote: "Quote: "Unbelieveable, it still doesn't sink into your skull only one religion can be right? "
thats only the thinking of a proportion of the worlds population, i thought we established that.
"

Many religions directly contradict another, one might claim the after life is a permanent state, while another claims reincarnation occurs. Logically either both are wrong, or only one is right, both can't be 100% right.
Quote: "
on the matters of right and wrong, i dont think there is a right religeon, all you can do is try and choose the most accurate, but that would differ to everyone's oppinions, depending on what set of beliefs seems the most sensible, ie, might think "jesus was just a magician" so then goes to buddism instead, or something like that."

Not all think this way, most die hard christians believe the Bible to be infallible word of god. In that mindset their belief is the absolute truth, all others are false.
What some people are failing to realise is its enevitable some religions are going to be wrong, or even all. Thats why saying things such as "(my)God is real" doesn't hold any weight to someone of a different faith, they think the exact same thing.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 21:56
Quote: "Many religions directly contradict another"

on the other hand, many say the same thing.

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 00:19
Quote: "
What some people are failing to realise is its enevitable some religions are going to be wrong, or even all. Thats why saying things such as "(my)God is real" doesn't hold any weight to someone of a different faith, they think the exact same thing."


That's the point. It's not supposed to. It means something to them, though, no matter what it means to an athiest. Thus everyone can follow their own respective truths whether they are right or wrong ultimatly and still have no logical reason to accept your assbackwards argument.

God you're impossible. Did you register just to emarass athiests in this post?

Anomaly
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:10
Quote: "Quote: "
What some people are failing to realise is its enevitable some religions are going to be wrong, or even all. Thats why saying things such as "(my)God is real" doesn't hold any weight to someone of a different faith, they think the exact same thing."

That's the point. It's not supposed to."

What point? What is it supposed to do then? What does telling fairytales to those it holds no weight achieve?
Quote: "
It means something to them, though, no matter what it means to an athiest."

Does talking to themselves also hold a special place in their heart?
Nevertheless thats what they are doing.
Quote: "
Thus everyone can follow their own respective truths whether they are right or wrong ultimatly and still have no logical reason to accept your assbackwards argument.
"

Thats good news for you, no reason to pull your head out of your ass then.
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:18
Could this drivel be locked? If all you can come up with once you finally grasp the argument that destroys your theory is an attack, there's no point to waste my time...

Anomaly
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:24
I guess I'll be waiting for along time to get this argument that destroys my theory.
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:28
No doubt, even though every other athiest in the discussion already seems to understand it

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:29
Quote: "I go to church every sunday"
Why don't you go and do something productive, I spend my sundays working(and getting paid for it).

Quote: "just cos ur an athiest doesnt make u a bad person, thats just wrong."
Acctualy acording to your reiligeon it does(your the cristian one right).

Quote: "What point? What is it supposed to do then? What does telling fairytales to those it holds no weight achieve?"
It's supposed to start fights, what else?

Quote: "Could this drivel be locked? If all you can come up with once you finally grasp the argument that destroys your theory is an attack, there's no point to waste my time..."
I thought that too, so I went to another thread, but this is the last one that I haven't read so I just had to post.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 01:32
Actually the Christian religion doesn't dictate that you are a bad person because you're an athiest. It just says that you won't be saved/reborn/put on the new earth/etc because you haven't accepted the One True God/accepted Jesus as your savior (those depend on the branch of Christianity). You could still be a great person. Sort of unfair, but the truth isn't always fair I suppose. Not that I'm a Christian myself...

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:06 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 02:14
Quote: "Quote: "just cos ur an athiest doesnt make u a bad person, thats just wrong."
Acctualy acording to your reiligeon it does(your the cristian one right)."

IM A MUSLIM HOW MANY TIME TO I HAVE TO REPEAT!!!!

Quote: "Quote: "I go to church every sunday"
Why don't you go and do something productive, I spend my sundays working(and getting paid for it)."


lol. if it wasnt for religeons the only time off work we'd have would be the summer hols. think about that noobers, and besides, he wants to go to chruch? let him? it might be that he works mon-fri 9-5, it might be that he cant work cos of a physical disability, quit being judgemental, your starting to offend again. why cant u athiests let us believe what we wanna believe? does a walk to the church/mosque/synagogue/temple/monument/mountain/tree have to offend everyone we pass by on the journey?

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:11
Well what ever I'm gonna beacome a DBCfanboyist. All DBC fanboys get chicks when they die and everone else gets locked in a room naked with the DBP fanboys(naked).

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:15
lol having db fanboy as a second "religeon" i win either way!!!- wait, u said "dbC fanboy"

DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:19 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 03:01
"Sort of unfair, but the truth isn't always fair I suppose. Not that I'm a Christian myself"

you're not chrisitian but you imply that you believe it's true? what ARE you then?

when i quit going to church i was one of those "religion sucks cause i got burned, i'm gonna tell everyone it sucks" kind of people. but by now i've kind of mellowed out and i'm, like JeBuS said, a "live and let live" kind of guy. notice i'm not saying i'm atheist as i'm really not. i go deeper than that - i find the entire underlying concept of beliefs and faith to be kind of, well, useless for anything besides starting wars (whether they be flame or for real). i'm logical, but i don't believe in the big bang and evolution just to be different from religious people.

here's how i see it. most of the stuff people argue about DOES NOT MATTER and NEVER WILL. what would knowing whose god is "right" accomplish? what would knowing how the universe came to be accomplish? absolutely bloody f**k. the ONLY THING that knowing the answers to these questions would do would be to prove one side of the argument right and the other wrong. i seriously doubt the quality of life would be improved simply by knowing whether the big bang happened or not.

additionally there is no prove that there IS or ISN'T an afterlife of any kind. yeah there are people who've had near-death experiences, but that's not exactly proof. it might just be their mind saying "OK now's the time to put into action all the stuff i've been taught about dying all my life... hey, there's an angel and a bright light!"

what i think IS important is what's happening now. how would you rather live? focus solely on heaven, ignoring others in a quest for christ-like perfection? or live life to its fullest, care for those you love, be happy with life here, and get to heaven anyway?

live and let live. see, buddhists got it years ago

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:24
Quote: "you're not chrisitian but you imply that you believe it's true? what ARE you then?"


I didn't. I was explaining what the Christians believed. A good deal of people seem to blithely make the assumption I am one without reading my posts carefuly...

Quote: "
live and let live. see, buddhists got it years ago "


Yup ...

DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:26
"I didn't. I was explaining what the Christians believed"

weird way of putting it then..

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:28 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 02:28
No, it's not... rereading my post, in fact, it looks quite objective. I make it rather clear I don't believe it myself. Perhaps people are far too used to examinging all other belief systems with condescending sardonicism. It's certainly the most common thing to find.

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:34 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 02:37
Quote: "what would knowing how the universe came to be accomplish?"

actually; quite a lot from a scientific point of view, we could then use it find out out whether it's actually possible to have multiple universes or whether we should give up trying to invent a way of travelling through them scince they dont exist. it may also tell us how/why/when the universe will end (and if theres any other universes to flee too ). also we could found out how to teleport to that pub in tokyo in 5 mins, if theres any relevance between the pub and the universe, (since there IS a restaurant at the end of it).


Quote: "your own selfish desire to get into heaven and have eternal life?... "

hardly selfish since many religeons desire that everyone goes to heaven.

Quote: "or to live life to its fullest, care for those you love, and be happy with life here?"


apart from working in my bedroom on this compo entry, i DO live life to the fullest. i have a good social life which expands amongst varius different groups, some of which even fight over me i see girls, i do bmx-ing and i have an interest for all extreme sports out there, -its just i cant afford to participate in all of them- i stay out late and do what i want when i am out, and even my parents dont tell me what time to come back cos they can trust me. i listen to a WIDE WIDE WIDE taste in music.

i think u get the point. my life wouldnt be any difference, but when u see a prize, it's not worth taking the risk

if u see a competition offering u to become president of the USA, u dont shrug it off cos theres an element of doubt to it, u say "yeh i may aswell fill in the 2 lined form and press return." and just see what happens.

edit: well thats what i did anyway...
so the compo was a hoax, i havent lost anything, if it was, i've gained a lot.

Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:37 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 02:40
Quote: "what matters more to you? your own selfish desire to get into heaven and have eternal life? or to live life to its fullest, care for those you love, and be happy with life here?"


Tough decision when I'm doing both. Now, calling it a selfish desire is not going to get you any awards. My religion makes me happy and we are taught to try our best to help those around us feel and appreciate what Christ's love has to offer.

See, to me, living life to its fullest is treating others and myself with respect. It's getting married, having kids, caring for them, retiring on lakeside property and fishing until I die. And even if the end was not what I expected, I would still be proud to have lived such a life.

So please, enlighten us on what YOU think living life to the fullest means.


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:42
yeh, please

DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:51
woah, woah, woah! never meant to offend anyone with what i said.

mouse - no need to get defensive, as i wasn't trying to insult you or be sardonic. i was just saying that your post seemed to me like you meant that you believed it.

what i mean by "selfish desire to get into heaven" was that i see so many people that are so concerned with doing everything they can to get to heaven, others be damned. i don't care if you're like that or not - i know several people from my ex-church who find heaven more important than this life. if you believe in heaven, then the entire point of this life is to live with others and live it well so you can get into heaven, but there are people who don't get that (and i'm not implying anyone who's posted!).

and what i mean by living life to the fullest - well jimmy, you pretty much summed it up. i'm not real sure why you're so dubious of my definition of the phrase, considering i followed it with "care for those you love, and be happy with life here".

i think what's happening here is that you think i'm making fun of you, when i'm really not.

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:56
Well, saying it is a selfish desire and your implication that the two things can't co-exist kinda struck me, that's all


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DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 02:59
fair enough i'll edit my post to be more clear.

OK enough of that damn DBP fanboy banner. i'm NOT a DBP fanboy in any way. i haven't used DBP in over a year, and i don't really plan on using it again.
Plastico
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 03:13 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 03:15
Quote: "dont worry killswitch ur goin to heaven ^_^ just cos ur an athiest doesnt make u a bad person, thats just wrong."


I think your misinformed. If you deny God exists then you wont go to heaven.

so says the catholics, believe what you want.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 03:18 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 03:19
Quote: "i know several people from my ex-church who find heaven more important than this life"

lol i dont kno any real ned flanders. nice to know you finally found some.

Quote: "I think your misinformed. If you deny God exists then you wont go to heaven. "

thats what u believe. not me. ur missing the point entirely, and its by using saying that opennly that gets athiests wound up. soon you (i presume ur catholic/christian/jehovas witness) will be in the same turmoil with athiests as we are with jews.

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 03:21
A DBP FANBOY! Everyone convert to DBC fanboy or be sentenced to eternal suffering with:

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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 03:26
Sexxxxxxaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy


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New Creature Feature
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:03
I hate to try to sum it all up as one specific thing but some of you hit on it. You can't prove God exists or doesn't exists. Neither can you prove man or any present day creatures evolved from something entirely different millions of years ago. Why? None of us were there.

We either have to go by faith in something, or we have to go by so-called science. Not all science is science. Just as anyone can manufacture statistics saying whatever they want, there is a means to produce whatever "facts" you want by manipulating the evidence to come to the conclusion you want it to. It happens in court every day right? It also happens in labs.

Science is highly debatable because scientists of faith can "prove" biblical findings and scientists of no faith can "prove" evolutionary findings. Even that takes faith of a sort- who do you believe (put your "faith" into)?

So, the only way to prove God exists is on a personal basis- you can't prove it to anyone else. I was raised by a Catholic father and a Baptist mother. I believed in God and Jesus and prayed to them often. I considered myself a Christian because of this. But it wasn't until I turned 19 that I realized I was a sinner who needed God's forgiveness.

So right there in my bedroom I prayed to God and asked Jesus to be my savior and shortly thereafter the revelation came to me (no one had to tell me) that I was a new creature (hence my tag)- all my sins were gone and forgotten and I had a new life.

It's the same with every experience in God. You can "believe" it but until you expierence it you really have no "proof" other than hearsay. I have experienced many other things that gave me concrete evidence (on a personal basis, the only way it can be) that there is a God, His Son is Jesus, and Jesus is the only way to the Father.

God wants Christians to share their faith, so that is part of us. Don't be offended by the fact we are doing that, it's ingrained in us. We might not always say or do things the right way and we may from time to time offend people, which is never our intention. But then again sometimes we do say and do things the right way and people can hate you all the more.

The Bible says those of faith will be persecuted by those who lack faith. I'm not saying that's going on here because I believe real persecution is physical violence or serious harrasment/violation of personal rights/freedoms. What we have here is hopefully just some serious debate.

And for those who have abandoned their Christian faith as stated here, I don't want to insult anyone, but maybe like myself some of you thought you were "Christians" in name only merely because of your beliefs or that you prayed "the sinner's prayer." I prayed the sinner's prayer years before I became a Christian, it didn't save me. I did it out of an emotional response, I was under pressure to do it. But when I realized on my own that I needed God that's when it became real. Maybe some of you have had emotional conversions but not spiritual conversions. If so reevaluate your situation.

Maybe you left your faith because God didn't come through in the way you expected Him too. Man I've been disappointed so many times- not because God failed me- I just had some foolish assumptions. That's no reason to leave your faith anymore than it is for you to leave home because mom and dad didn't buy you the red bicycle for Christmas. I've prayed for people to be healed who ended up dying. I was ticked off and upset but I didn't leave my faith.

I hope none of you have genuinely been born again and tasted the good gift of God and still chose to leave your faith. For those I can offer no condolence.

The sum- The only way you can prove God exists is to experience Him for yourself. That's it.

Thanks for reading

Alan

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. II Corinthians 5:17
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:16
well said. now lets drop this subject while everyones at calm with each other.

btw, imo science and religeon are the same thing, its just some "forumlas" are debatable.

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:18
Er, science is the exploration of the world around you by the scientific method, IE:

Get a hypothesis
If the evidence at hand supports it, it becomes a theory, if not refine until it does
It's a theory
Check many cases of your theory to make sure it is sound
It's a fact

Religion is totally different. Sorry

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:23
Quote: "Neither can you prove man or any present day creatures evolved from something entirely different millions of years ago"
um... yeah, they do, we've seen animals evolve, such as elephants are starting to grow eithout tusks because they're diing from getting hunted.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:25 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 04:27
Science? More like... Biance!

Beyonce! Knowles!

Is pretty

Manticore: That's not evolution, that's adaptation ....


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:29
Same difference.

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Plastico
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:30
Quote: "such as elephants are starting to grow eithout tusks because they're diing from getting hunted"


what?
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:34
Quote: "um... yeah, they do, we've seen animals evolve, such as elephants are starting to grow eithout tusks because they're diing from getting hunted."


lol bollox.

"my cocks to big so im loosing women. i'll make my wife give birth to a weener kid"

same principle.

although, however, we do see natural selection happen around us, sorry but you just used a crap example.

Anomaly
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 04:57
Quote: "Manticore: That's not evolution, that's adaptation ...."


Its called Micro-Evolution.
IanM
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:17
No, it is called selection. It just happens to be a human factor that is the cause of the selection - Elephants without tusks are 'fitter' because we don't hunt them.

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JeBuS
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:17
Recently a small group of desert flies was found to have split into 2 different species. ie, they can no longer produce viable offspring.
Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:29
Quote: "lol bollox."
Well sorry, but your uninformed.

Quote: ""my cocks to big so im loosing women. i'll make my wife give birth to a weener kid""
Somebody remove that post, it's scary thinking of El_Goorf's cock.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:39 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 05:40
look, elephants dont just think "for the safety of my kids im gonna give birth to elephants that dont have any tusks"

btw, its ice to kno u think of me as having a big cock, but i was only saying that from a 3rd persons voice

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:39
No, but their genes do.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 05:43 Edited at: 24th Aug 2004 05:45
no, the genes dont DECIDE they just ARE. its a case of the elephants that dont have tusks that are staying alive while the ones with tusks are being shot, so the chances of survival for the ones with no tusks are higher.

the ones with the "no tusk" gene give birth to more with the "no tusk" gene, while the ones with the "with tusk" gene have all been killed so they cant carry the it to the next generation.

the ones with the tusk gene dont give birth to the non tusked elephant, or visa-versa

its nothing to do with deciding how ur kids are gonna be, its to do with surviving so u can make ur kids what they're gonna be.

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:01
Quote: "its to do with surviving so u can make ur kids what they're gonna be."
BINGO, that's what I've been saying. It's obvious that you can't decide what your kids are going to be CONCIOUSLY. YOUR genes are doing it, your genes are a part of YOU. Get it now?

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:12
Quote: "elephants are starting to grow eithout tusks because they're diing from getting hunted."


your saying there that they're doing it conscously.

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:21
No I'm not. How can you interpret it like that? I'm just stating what's happening and why.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:21
Genes don't decide freaking anything. The product of you comes from the attributes of your parents, your grandparents, your great grandparents, your great great grandparents AND SO ON.......

Elephants don't just magically stop growing tusks. I agree with Froog here. All the elephants that grew tusks are dead. And what's left are the mutated ones.


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:25
Mutations are the genes "desiding".

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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 06:28
No, mutations are the excess or lack of genes.


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