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Geek Culture / Grounded...again

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Mattman
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:51
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gah! again, but this time much much worse. my brother and sister said my parents said a month, then mom said apoligizing will help my case. I wont. Im grounded because i didnt go to church. then i tried to explain that i think its a bunch of fake stories, she said "i dont even wanna get into a religion dispute. so im off computer for a while

cya in a month i guess...
Matt

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:52
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Seeya!

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:53
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Bye bye.

I have school, so its basically the same, I will be on my computer about 10% of the time I used to be on.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:55
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Why not? Aren't you a bit young to be making far-flung religious statements? And even if you disagree with your parents' religions, surely you owe them an apology or at least an explination?



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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:33
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Unfortunetly, at your age, taking a stand against your parents is not a wise situation. You'll have the rest of your life to not go to church (I go to a Buddhist "church", so, believe me, i am not ragging on you), but for now, you gotta play the games they lay out for you. Well, you might not even get a chance to read this until it is no longer applicable, but I suggest just "saying" your sorry. Standing up to your parents is not going to go any where fast.

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Dgamer
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:45
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I think you should take a stand. If you think its a waste of time to go to church, then dont go unless they force you. Everyone should have the freedom to pick their religion anyway. Being punished because you dont believe in religion or a certain religion is just absurd.

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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:50
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Seeing as he'll have the rest of his life after he's 18 to do whatever he wants religion-wise, I think it'd be pretty foolish not to go to Church at his age in that situation. Seeing as he's only starting to take this kind of stuff seriously now at his age, and it looks like he's going through the knee-jerk-anti-religion teen reaction that we all know, he probably hasn't given Christianity a serious consideration in his life.

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Sparda
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:53
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Teen hormones, aren't they great?


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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:54
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Well, he may never become an active Christian. Many of us don't. He may have the freedom to pick his religion in his mind, but no, he does not have the freedom not to go. He is a minor.

P.S.- And yes, forcing religion on someone is absurd. All it does it push them away. But I'm NOT about to start another religion thread. And neither are YOU! lol

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 13:37
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Like he said you have the rest of your life after you move out of your parents house to do whatever you decide to do (granted somethings you can go to jail for ). You should really listen to your parents. After all they are feeding, clothing, and housing you. A little compliance and respect is the least you can do. And even if you are old enough to work and feed and cloth yourself you still have no excuse because there were more years they done this for you than you have for yourself. Wait until you get kids of your own and see how you feel when you pay around $4000 to $8000 a year to raise your kid depending on age and gender just to have them spit in your face by telling you they are not going to do something as trivial as that.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 13:43
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Spoken like a pro, but I'm afraid he must already be gone, or i think he would have commented by now

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 14:24
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Quote: "I think it'd be pretty foolish not to go to Church at his age in that situation. Seeing as he's only starting to take this kind of stuff seriously"
You must be pretty thick. There are plenty of aethiest adults kids ARE old enought to think for them selves. They're not dumb. Age doesn't make you smarter. There's some old people who think that an elephant is in their bed, they're 80.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 15:34
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You are correct age doesn't make you smarter than someone else. But I will tell you this. I do not have kids (though I have been responsible for raising my 2 younger brothers since I was 17) But if I do have kids and I am responsible for their well being (meaning food, cloths, housing, electricity, water, and even teaching them what I have learned from my past experiences) they will do what I say. When they move out of my house and are responsible for their own lives then they can do as they please. It doesn't matter whether you do or do not want to go to church. What does matter is that your parents, who love you and believe that this will help you in one way or another, told you to go. And you should go for them, even if you learn nothing, at least you will have showed them the respect they deserved for taking care of you all of those years. As much as you think you could have made it on your own you are very fortunate to have parents who care for you enough to want you to be good and possibly have a better life than them. Trust me on this I have seen the other side of life as my parents were not there for me. And no I am not a religious person by most peoples definition. I have but 2 sayings for my religion. "Treat others as you want to be treated." and "Ignore whats in other peoples heads (what they think about you) and listen to what is in your heart." These 2 may seem a bit against each other but you have to use them together for it to work right. You will look back when you are in your parents shoes and understand one day.

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Dave J
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 15:45
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Quote: "Age doesn't make you smarter."


It may not directly make you smarter but your schooling life, education and general experiences make you wiser and more intelligent then when you're younger. When you're young, it's harder to make the right choices because you've had fewer experiences and may not know what's best, this is why you need parental permission for the majority of any life-changing decisions.


Quote: "There's some old people who think that an elephant is in their bed, they're 80."


That's the dumbest example ever. When you near the end of your life, your brain deteriates and it's not uncommon to get diseases that result in memory loss and other misfortunes.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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RougeCat
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 15:59
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Wow thats a lot of wise words there. Truely its hard to find any kid listening to parents these days. Even the smallest of things they want to oppose. Its more of I TAKE MY OWN DECISIONS rather than DO I REALLY LIKE IT OR NO scenario. Makes me wonder where the worlds heading!
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Manticore Night
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 16:10
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I think they should(make their own desisions). Saying they can't is pretty much the same as saying a woman can't go in the army beacause she's the majority of women are weak.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 16:18
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That is no comparison either. Women should be allowed in the army because they are responsible for their own lives. Children should be limited in the decisions allowed for them to make because their parents are responsible for their lives. As hard as this may seem to fathom ... Like I said one day you will understand.

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Dave J
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 16:19 Edited at: 30th Aug 2004 16:19
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Quote: "I think they should(make their own desisions). Saying they can't is pretty much the same as saying a woman can't go in the army beacause she's the majority of women are weak."


Oh, so you think children should be allowed to decide if they get immunised or not? I guarantee you 99% of children will say no (because they don't want a needle) although they SHOULD be immunised because it prevents diseases. They don't know what's best for them yet.


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Arkheii
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 19:10
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Parents can only pave the way for your life as far as their backs can take them.

I've read this somewhere: Act like others but think for yourself.

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Van B
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 22:55
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Quite right too, c'mon the parents!

Seriously, you've been grounded for disobeying your parents wishes - your their son and their demands are priority - regardless of your own opinions. Would it be different if you got caught skipping a class at school? - probably not. Sounds to me like your parents are being sensible, the ball is in your court to show some maturity and get on with it without grumbling.


Van-B


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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 00:03
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Manticore, can you stop being rude for one day of your life ? Your women example is truly ridiculous. Women joining the army are adults. He is a child (and so are you I might point out). It is is parents' right to enforce their house rules on him, and while it may seem like tyranny to you now you'll be thankful for it later.

I am 100% with Van B here.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920&p=1
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Anomaly
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 01:41
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Maybe you'll understand they are doing what they believe is right, but maybe not as far as being thankful.
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Kentaree
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 01:50 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 02:07
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[Edited out]

Mouse, you're still a kid yourself, so how can you tell others what to do if they're not even allowed to make their own decisions?

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:10
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More straw men arguments.

I didn't say children couldn't make their own decisions, I said they had to adhere to their parents' choises, which is quite true. And even if I was being a hypocrite-- is the murderer lying when he says killing is wrong? Your argument simply doesn't make sense.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Northern Lights
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:16
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@Exeat: I'm not sure that I agree with your argument simply because you make it sound like all children don't yet know what's best for them. It's that whole stereotypical thing...

@anyone who cares what my opinion is: I think that for most children, it would be better for them to simply listen to their parents and do as they're told. I mean, parents pay so much for kids and have to make tons of sacrifices so that we can be happy(clothes, school, taxes, entertainment, sports, etc.). Heck my parents bought me a $2000 dirtbike, so if they want me to do something, I'll do it(it remains to be seen if they want me to flung off at 65mph!). (for those wondering if my parents bought me that SO I would do as told, no, I'm simply happy to do what they want because they did that for me. I'll shut up now...)

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:25
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What if they lived in the ghetto and theri parents wanted them to do something horrible, like taking the life of another, or stealing from some rich person?

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:26
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Quote: "I'm not sure that I agree with your argument simply because you make it sound like all children don't yet know what's best for them. It's that whole stereotypical thing... "


Most children don't know what's best for them. This is not a steriotype, it is a simple fact. The younger you are, the less experience you've had with the world. This is especially true in today's society. Mattman is very lucky to have parents who care about what he's doing, even if they're wrong in making him go to church. It damages people very, very badly to have parents who don't care about them enough to look after them.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Northern Lights
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:29 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 02:31
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@Anime b l o o d: point taken. Okay do as you're told within reason

I know MOST don't, he made it sound like every last one of them don't.

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:31
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Okay point taken .


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Northern Lights
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 02:32
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lol crap, you guys respond fast.

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the_winch
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:00
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Quote: "Most children don't know what's best for them."


Parents are capable of making decisions that arn't the best for the child as well. Are they really making him go to church because of whats best for him or becuase of their own religious beliefs and childhoods?

It's proberly easier to go and listen to a load of crap in church once a week and have a peacefull family life. Sometimes you just have to keep quiet and do things you don't like. Not that there is particually anything wrong with arguing with your parents but even through it's hard to see at the time you have to remeber sometimes they are right.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:40
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I have experienced many times when parents did not make the right decision for their child. However much they (and some others) would like to think that parents are always right, they're not. If your parents have to make you go to the church, shouldnt that tell them that you dont want to, and that in the eyes of the Christian church that would void it anyway as it has to be by choice?

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John H
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:41
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I agree with what van-b said.


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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:45
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Kentaree, obviously parents don't *always* make the right decisions for their child. Some rarely do. But unless a kid is being abused or seriously harmed, he owes his parents a basic level of obedience until he's of age. And, as I said, it's far better to have parents who care about you but make some bad choises than parents who let you do anything you want.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Kentaree
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:50
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I agree totally with obedience to parents up to a point. I mean ffs, grounding your child for a month because he doesnt go to church is a bit drastic imho (that said, I'm an atheist, it might be different for devout people).

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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:59
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Well, I personally would take a different tack-- I'd sit my son down and give him the logic I've just said here , and tell him that when he's got a decent argument against that I'll allow him to not do what I want without punishment, but until then he has to or he gets punished (which would be, for continued disobedience, a loss of all priveliges until he came around).

This method will probably evolve to something more refined over time.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Manticore Night
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 04:08 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 04:19
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Quote: "Women should be allowed in the army because they are responsible for their own lives"
And children aren't? By you reasoning if a parent tells you to kill someone, or you get grounded, you should do it. According to our constitution(not sure if it's called that, beacause I took all my politics in french), YOU HAVE FREE CHOICE OF ANY RELGIGEON. And DESCRIMINATION is against the law. And DESCRIMINATION is just what that is. But, of course, you might not live in Canada, so the laws might be different there.

Quote: "This is not a steriotype, it is a simple fact"
No it's a sterotype. I'm a minor and I argued out of the chistian relgieon my self(no offence, but those catholics are like leaches). And I can out prove almost anything that I don't believe.

Plus, I might not have the most useful advice, beacause I work very hard to pay my own way for everything(So my parents can't realy punish me). I even paid for my own computer, and 1/3 of the family one. So, just a warning: ONLY TAKE MY ADVICE IF YOUR WILLING TO WORK HARD TO BE "FREE".

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 04:52
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Could someone remove this crap please?

I would add commentary but I don't think it's neccessary.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Peter H
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 05:05 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 05:08
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you should do what your parents say...unless they tell you to do something wrong

and they are not forcing you to be a christain they are just wanting you to go to church with them...

@manticore night's last post-..............................................
same as mouse said i don't think manticore night should be taken seriously...all his arguments are "you are descriminating!!!" and putting peoples words out of context to make it look like they are saying what he wants them to say...

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Manticore Night
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Quote: "they are not forcing you to be a christain"
But they are punishing him for not being christian.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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Peter H
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 05:08 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 05:10
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Quote: "Quote: "they are not forcing you to be a christain"
But they are punishing him for not being christian.
"

no, they aren't, they are punishing him for not going to church with the rest of the family...which is completely different than becoming a christain...

see? he just popped my comment way out of context...

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ArcAngel
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I think you should stay in the faith.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 05:45
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@Manticore Night You did not read the 2 qoutes below my post I see. It goes for parents and children alike. But like the man said. Unless your parents tell you to do something that you know in your heart is wrong (not something you just don't like or just don't want to do) you should do it.

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JeBuS
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1+1=3

See you in a few months.

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adr
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 07:11 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 07:24
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I'm surprised no-one has imparted the following gem:

Until you're [age at which you can move away from home and be self-sufficient], jump through whatever hoops necessary to make your life easy

If that means doing your homework on time, go for it. If that means going to church then sit front-row centre. You don't have to agree with everything you do. Hell, you'll go through this exact same crap once you start a career; day in day out you could be doing stuff that you just plain don't agree with*. Just depends whether you're a fight fire with fire kinda person I guess...

*I had a very real experience with this recently - I've never had such a strong urge to tell someone (much higher up than me) that they're just wrong.


-----

EDIT : Mouse >
Quote: "Seeing as he'll have the rest of his life after he's 18 to do whatever he wants religion-wise, I think it'd be pretty foolish not to go to Church at his age in that situation."


Surely once you're 18+ you're in a better situation to make an informed judgement on whether religion is for you, rather than "giving it a chance" now. You're not losing something by not going to church now, except perhaps a sense of community.

Religion is the #1 thing that I think is wrong to enforce upon a child (except perhaps some Class A drugs... now that is wrong). Everything else you can say is for their benefit - homework, relationships, sex, whatever. However, religion ... no - not a chance. If my kids wanna go to church then I'll be there with them, but I'm not going to drag them there.


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 08:42
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GO ADR! Finally, someone I agree with(to some extent). You do have to put up with stuff, but there's still a limit.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
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ionstream
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 08:50
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Age doesn't make you smarter. It makes you wiser.

"Trying is the first step towards failure." - Homer Simpson
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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 09:45
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Quote: "
Surely once you're 18+ you're in a better situation to make an informed judgement on whether religion is for you, rather than "giving it a chance" now. You're not losing something by not going to church now, except perhaps a sense of community."


Perhaps so. Nevertheless he's not accomplishing anything by making a big deal about it now-- might as well deal with it.

Quote: " Age doesn't make you smarter. It makes you wiser."


That's a quaint quote, but I've noticed that with the occassional exception I can beat 8-year-olds at chess as well as philosophy... even if they know the game quite well . Age makes you smarter, wiser and more skilled. Time is everything.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Dave J
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 16:00
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Quote: "I know MOST don't, he made it sound like every last one of them don't. "


My figure of 99% is MOST, not all.


Quote: "That's a quaint quote, but I've noticed that with the occassional exception I can beat 8-year-olds at chess as well as philosophy... even if they know the game quite well . Age makes you smarter, wiser and more skilled. Time is everything."


Agreed, I didn't know algebra when I was 8 but I can do it now without a problem. You become smarter as you get older.


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Anomaly
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 20:22
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Quote: "I think you should stay in the faith."

Hes already out of the faith (as his original post suggests), and thats his personal decision to make. His complaint is he doesn't want to go to church.
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