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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Question for buying dbp

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Razor
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2002 19:50
I heard that there are alot of bugs and what level editor
is good cause i heard dbp doesn't bring one. I do like the
gallery pictures but if there are bugs can you make a game
with dbp?
Pickles
21
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2002 21:15
Sure you can make a game in DBPro. But... you will find that bugs are not the problem. They will be resolved within a few patches. You will however find that you will most likely have to spend more money on a product or license, in order to deal with the LACK of world building capabilities that DBPro suffers from. It is easier to build worlds with DB then it is in DBPro.

Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
21
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 02:37
But DBPro is a programming language, berating it's lack of BSP editor is like complaining that a car doesn't come with it's own petrol/gas station just because it can "load" it. I agree that level editors are required to make certain styled games, but there are many out there and if you really really can't use something like Quark or Hammer there are X to BSP tools provided.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Kale
21
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Joined: 8th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 03:24
Where abouts can i find Hammer? Quark looks kinda crappy! especially as it uses python v1.5.2? how old is that...

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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AMD XP2100+, Geforce4Ti 4400, 512Mb DDR, Abit KX7.
Pickles
21
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 03:46
Don't give me your car analogy. DBPro is a car without a gas cap!!!

Instead of making sorry excuses for what DBPro does not have, why don't you try to address the issues that paying customers have with your software.

Everything you have said about BSP building has been pure double talk. What editor do you use? How much did you pay for the license to use it? Put a link to "the many" BSP tools that are out there. (Half of which don't even work with DBPro anyway.) And then explain to everyone why the hell they should pay more money in order to deal with the limitations of not the program, but your crappy customer service!

PS - Stop recommending people to buy $500 3D Studio Max just to make models for your $99 dollar "programming language". (Worst advice of all time.)

Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
21
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 15:54
Pickles - you have to remember that programming is only one side of things. It's inevitable that you will need to use other programs with DB Pro for the creation of graphics. I wouldn't agree when you say that DB Pro is a car without a gas cap. Would you then go on to say the same thing about Windows? On it's own Windows isn't much use, but with all of the programs available it is.

If you would care to look on our website you will find that we do offer world creation tools that can be used in conjunction with DB Pro, CShop for example - http://www.darkbasic.com/c.php?f=cartographyshop1.

Also take a look at one of the many BSP map editors freely available e.g. Quake 2, Half Life, Quake 3. You can create maps in there editors and load straight into DB Pro. Try looking at [url]www.planetquake.com[/url] for more info.

Mike
Kensupen
21
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Joined: 19th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 16:40
Most of the HL map editors are licensed to only be used in HL. WorldCraft and Hammer are 2 that I know of that can't be used for "other" engines. Looks like QxRadiant or Quark. I personally use Cartography Shop. Not very powerfull, but can get the job done.

-Kensupen

Pickles
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 19:14
More double talk from a DB developer. The developer of cartography shop shopuld be embarrased for even having the nerve to ask $29 dollars for such a half-assed program. The fact that DBPro installed it without my permission is nothing but a piss off.

Windows can be used right out of the box. DB CAN NOT BE USED WITHOUT A WORLD EDITOR! A CAR WITHOUT A GAS TANK!

Answer these questions - What editor is used by the DB development team and how much did you pay for the license?
Why should DB users have to pay more money to use a world builder from a third party company?

The whole point is that there are NO license free world editors that work with DBPro. Only license free 3D modelers.

World Builders have tools and options that are specially designed to make world building a rapid and efficient task.

Look man I'm not here to argue with you people. I am an unsatisfied cutomer who wants an answer. If you call any of the crap that has been said, "customer service", then here is my final answer to every noob who is thinking of buying DBPro. Don't bother for the sole reason that customer service literaly sucks !! These people will not give you any assistance, only sorry excuses and a hardtime.

GCEclipse
21
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 19:46
I almost can't believe what I'm reading!

Pickles, DBPro is advertised as a programming language and that is what you get! I've seen nothing in their advertising for DBPro which doesn't concur with what they've provided and there certainly is no mention of supplying us with a level editor and never was!

No-one in their right mind would even expect one to be supplied. And DBPro users don't have to pay more money to buy a level editor - they can build their own or use one of the many fine level makers that no doubt will be made by DBPro enthuisiasts - all for no cost and not really that difficult to do. (In fact with memblock commands its possible to make your own model editor as well - I know because I've done it.)

It is possible to get a game up and running with DBPro - we've got our game ported over from DB and its running fast and really smoothly - with only a couple of very minor problems that should be fixed soon anyway.

And why is it bad advice to recommend 3D studio - its recommended because its the industry standard obviously - NOT to deliberably rub your nose in it.


GC

Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 19:46
If you're going to take up that analogy - a car still needs fuel even if it does have a gas tank, which means that you still need something extra. We're presented with a similar scenario here. Of course if you're willing to spend the time you could always make your own editors.

As far as your comments on customer service go I don't think you can have any cause for complaint. Both Rich and myself have pointed out viable solutions to your problems. I don't see what more you could want.

Mike
Pickles
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 19:55
No you didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Answer the questions I posed to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GEclipse, you know nothing!!!!! The industry standard costs $500 you idiot. Tell these people why in the hell they should pay $500 to make meshes!?!?!?!

You can not use any of the "free" editors without paying license fees!!!!!!

Stop spreading disinformation and stop with crappy customer service!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post links to license free editors!!!!!!!!!

PS - Add search capabilities to this forum God damn it!

Pickles
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 20:02
And don't sit there and tell me to write my own BSP level editor. That bull crap really decreases development time! Why don't you people release Cartography Shop as freeware!
Why don't you people just restore some type of God damned static world building, or at least explain some of the new Nodetree commands that we can be expecting. That's all you have to do to satisfy a customer. Stop talking crap and just give us the answers we want. In three replies to these questions all you people have done is spread disinformation and make sorry excuses.

Answer the questions posted to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Pickles
21
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 20:05
Ah..... bullocks to all of you ....... This forum is just a waste of time.

DB customer sevice sucks.

djlaptop
21
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 20:07
Pickles, here's another analogy: Web page editors.

There are plenty out there: Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Homesite, the list goes on and on...

None of them come with any capabilities to create images. You need to supply your own graphics program: Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, whatever.

Images are to websites what levels are to Dark Basic.

Would you complain to MS or Macromedia that their web software has no image editing capability? Why should DB be any different?

Amen to the search capabilities tho...

Pickles
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 20:13
djlaptop all you did was talk the same crap that was just said. Double talk that makes no sense. I use a text editor to create web pages and there are a millions free drawing programs. Stop with bull crap analogies and focus on the topic at hand, which is the limitations of DBPro and how the people who support this product are going to help users overcome these limitations.

Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2002 20:17
We don't release Cartography Shop for free for the same reasons we don't release DB Pro for free. How can you expect it to be given away for nothing? I won't go into that anyway. The reasons should be fairly obvious.

You now mention about static objects. If only I had my crystal ball out I would have been able to answer your question straight away Sorry, but you haven't mentioned static objects before - only world creation. The new nodetree commands ( coming in a future patch ) will allow you to take a pre created model e.g. X model and split it up into several sections. It works by creating a large 3D grid and zoning areas off. Then at runtime only the visible sectors are drawn. It's a fairly efficient way of rendering and will help to decrease the load on the graphics card. This technique is much better than the previous use of static objects and I'm sure you'll see the benefits.

If you have any more questions please be more specific when posting as it will help us to formulate a better response.

Mike
AugGa
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Posted: 24th Sep 2002 00:29
As someone looking at buying DBPro I would disagree with
Pickles...DB Customer Service is prettry good... seems to me Mike and Rich 'bit their lip' and tried to assist... u guys must be saints

The One Ring
21
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Joined: 15th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 24th Sep 2002 05:39
Pickles... I rarely post this kind of response, but you are an IDIOT!

Two words: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE!!!!

Does Visual Basic or Visual C++ come with MS SQL SERVER 2000? NOPE! (only a watered down MSDE).

You are simply angry due to you being unwilling to DOWNLOAD a BSP world editor, and to stubborn to WRITE YOUR OWN!!!
Guillermo
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Location: United States
Posted: 24th Sep 2002 06:56
Hey Pickles, there are many programming languages out there. Each one of us goes with the one(s) that suits him (perhaps there is also a her in this Bulletin Board) or her best. I can't stand C or any of its pseudo-copies (Visual Basic, new versions of Pascal, Java, etc). I assume that most people that come here have a strong reason to like Basic. Yet, Dark Basic is not the only Basic language available. There is Q-Basic, Blitz Basic, Liberty Basic, Pure Basic, Real Basic, and more that I am not aware of. I own some of them. I have tried all the ones I mentioned above. Some of them are just not right for me. Others are just right.
Dark Basic and Dark Basic Pro are the type of programs I like. This does not mean I haven't had problems with them. I had problems with Dark Basic, and customer service helped me solve them. I am having problems with DBPro. And customer service is working to help me.
But you have to understand their situation. They are working with a new program. Many of the problems that arise are totally new to them. They do not have precedents to rely on. And what is worse. The problems are different in different computers. I know. I use 5 computers regularly. And I am trying to determine which computer will be my writing computer and which computers will be good to test the programs on. And let me tell you. I have not had the same problem in two of the computers.
And by the way! think not only of how customer service has bent backwards to be nice to you. But also, think about Rick's post, letting us know how to use DBPro without the disk. In order to please us, DarkBasic has exposed itself to the use of their main program by people who do not buy it.
Any way. My experience with people who are always unsatisfied is that no argument can help them. Still, here is my advice: search the net using the keyword "Basic programming", find another basic, test it, and stop complaining. We all make mistakes. I have a collection of software that I don't use.
Just because we like DarkBasic, it doesn't mean that you have to like it.

Enjoy,

Guillermo

Rodro
21
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Joined: 17th Sep 2002
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Posted: 25th Sep 2002 04:19
Pickles just want someone else do to his work for him. He/she is not a programmer but just a user. Not saying users are bad, just not programmers.

Hey!! You talking to me?
Guillermo
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Posted: 25th Sep 2002 21:49
I am not a programmer either. I am more like a programming nightmare. Pickles seems more like a complainer than a user.

Gib007
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Sep 2002 00:44
Actually, you may use Id Software's Q3Radiant and Quake III Arena compiling tools IF the game that will include all the maps you make with those tools is freeware and freeware only and you make no profit whatsoever from it...
Get the idea?
That is what I am basically doing...

Kayron James Mercieca - kayronjm@gibnet.gi

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