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Geek Culture / DB and DBPro vote

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ThomasFN
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:12
Which piece of software would you vote for? DBC or DBP? I would vote for DBC. Better grpahics quality. I will give results every now and then.

Thomas Smith
Neofish
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:14
DBP

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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:18
Quote: "Better grpahics quality"


Did the pod people tell you that, too? Both DB and DBP use DirectX for graphics rendering. There is absolutely no difference in graphics quality except for that DBP can render more, faster, better.

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Emperor Baal
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:21
DBP, better graphics quality (yes, you don't use dbp properly) and its FASTER

David T
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:38
Quote: "Did the pod people tell you that, too? Both DB and DBP use DirectX for graphics rendering. There is absolutely no difference in graphics quality except for that DBP can render more, faster, better."


DBPro is capable of techniques such as shaders which can render better than DB

DBPro takes my vote. Better than DB in every way.

*wait for flames to pour in*

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Neofish
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:39
lol, i'll reason: DBC good in its own, inferior ways :p

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GICO
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 03:51
defenetley DBP.. i havent tried DBC at all! but everything i dont know s*cks

GICO

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GothOtaku
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 04:26
I have both, and I have tought both, and I've found DBPro to be almost better in evey respect. Even thought DBC has its merits (some commands that were easy to use but inefficient and got scrapped from DBPro) my vote has to go to DBPro.
Peter H
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 05:01
DBPro

the reason some of the DBC games look better is because the person who made the graphics was better...

has nothing to do with the language(unless we start talking about shaders...)

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Hawkeye
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 05:16
Go go go gadget DBPro! DBP rocks in everyway! You don't see any DBC Fanboy banners, now do you?

Sorry fer stealing your sig, walaber...

Quote: "the reason some of the DBC games look better is because the person who made the graphics was better..."

Oh, how so true. Have a look a Room War, fer crying out loud... The graphics in that were kick-arse, if I do say so meself

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Ilya
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 05:52
DBP DBP DBP DBP DBP
DBP is better at everything when compared to DBC.

Quote: "Better grpahics quality."

No.

MikeS
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 05:57
DBP



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 06:36
would you say DBC is better for noobs?

Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 06:37
DBP.


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:10
DBC, there's better IDE's and it's cheaper, I think, and you can make your own sky sphere.

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The dude guy
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:17
DBP!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's my forums www.andrewtamalunas.proboards28.com . Please join!
DarkSin
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:18
DBP is better to learn with IMHO. More tutorials out there, more commands that are easier, more IDE's and much nicer DLL support. All in all I think DBP is better to learn with then DBC.


Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:25
Quote: " DBC"


n00b

Quote: "there's better IDE's"


Anyone who can work in 640x480 has my deepest sympathies.

Quote: "and it's cheaper"


Good point.

Quote: "I think, and you can make your own sky sphere."


You can in DBP...

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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:28
DBP is a bit to buggy for me to stare at right now, i'll wait 13 updates before i like it.

DBC 1.13

That was to me, the greatest version of DarkBASIC ever to be shown to your lowly eyes.

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Three Score
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 07:54
dbpro it has a much more standard interface(i hate non windowed)
i don't mind the bugs too much and i guess because i am more uise to dbpro as a language oh and it also has dll support so you can add on things

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JeBuS
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 08:15
After using both, DBP gets my vote.


High quality models and graphics, low prices. Graphics for the rest of us.
The admiral
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 08:39
Dbpro all the way and there arnt that many bugs that really affect development so thats just a poor excuse.

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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 08:43
Better yet, look at the comparison chart:

http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?f=compare


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
hyrichter
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 09:19
I vote for DBC because I don't have DBPro yet.

Quote: "Anyone who can work in 640x480 has my deepest sympathies.
"


You ever heard of DarkEDIT?

I'm sure if I hade pro, I'd vote for it.

TravisP
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 09:43
DBP came in a nicer box



BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 11:14
I use DBC, and IT DRIVES ME CRAZY. I tried out the demo of Pro and just sitting there with it for half an hour made me really really hungry for $90 to blow on DBPro.




I checked out the comparison chart,

Quote: "Compiler Type: Interpretated"


????

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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 12:55
It means that when you run the Exe, the program runs through each line of code and decides what to do during run-time, it basically menas the whole program is a lot slower.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 13:07
I know that....but

"Interpretated"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interpretated

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 13:28
Dark Basic Enhanced (1.13)

as far as i'm conserned, the stability and ability to be largely portable to as many machines without problems is probably some of the biggest conserns for a language.

sure DBP has all the fancy features, but only a handful of community members know how to use them and of them even fewer will ever develop anything worthwhile with thier knowlage.
about the only three things i can think which dbp offers over dbe is speed, full type integration and dynamic arrays.

however on terms of speed, types and arrays... Blitz3D is still ahead.


BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 14:24




You cursed, Raven! jk
B3d sure is a pain in the butt to make stuff in though. It has nice structure, but when I used it I was a newb programmer and it drove me insane.

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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 14:27
Quote: ""Interpretated"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interpretated"


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=interpreted


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
TKF15H
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 22:35
Quote: "You don't see any DBC Fanboy banners, now do you?"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!

Quote: "DBP is better at everything when compared to DBC."

Sure, except for two thingys:
1) Requires DX9.0c, while DBC requires an older (thus more common) DX.
2) Twice, DBP has caused my computer to crash in a way that games made
in DBP (or DBC) won't work again. Even if I download something someone
else has compiled, it won't run. NO more Manamana!!!

Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 22:45
Quote: "
sure DBP has all the fancy features, but only a handful of community members know how to use them and of them even fewer will ever develop anything worthwhile with thier knowlage."


Can we drop the patronising attitude?

You can't really blame people for not using shaders and so on in their projects on a regular basis. Despite the advances in U5, its still a complicated process.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Ermes
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 23:31
as i see, DBC is for beginners, and is more stable and sturdy than DBPro, i feel a little strange but i have to agree with Raven for the first time in my life.
DBPro is very powerfull but its special features take a while to be mastered.
I'm using DBPRO since the first release, but i don't know what is a shader and how i have to use 3d maths, vectors, ecc ecc .
However, DBPRO wins against DBC.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:05
Quote: "Can we drop the patronising attitude?"


Pointers, Vector Math, Matrix Math, Memblocks, Backbuffer, etc, etc...

Dark Basic Professional has a plethera of features that are very poorly documented which means they're only really available to those who know how they work first.

Considering the majority of DBP users happen to be either Adults and Teenagers who have never taken advanced math schooling or took it so long ago they can't remember, then really my point is completely valid.

Shaders are a very SMALL portion of what is advanced within DBP.
Even more over certain systems in DBP are not exactly incorporated completely yet (or rather in a way which makes them valid), so this often means you need intimate knowlage on a subject before hand just to know how to work around the limitations.

Bollocks to my comments being patronising, it is a just a simple fact... most people on here can't tell you what half the features do, and those who can would rather spend thier time doing other projects.

Perhaps when full and proper documentation is released for DBP this fact might change, just as the help file on DB Standard taught me alot of things. Still a good number of more advanced techniques, suchas real-time mesh deformation are not things most users here know how to do. (without the use of bones that is)

This is just like saying you give 3D Studio Max out to a classroom of students in a Graphics class, 9/10 students will never know what features it has let alone be able to use them if you never teach them. (even then a good number of students will know roughly how to use them but stick with the techniques they know far better.)

There is nowt patronising about the comments at all, if you don't like what i've said your welcome to take 10 random users and ask them what they do and do not understand from DBP.
Honestly, if TGC had made a 1.14 update for DB which added Types/Data Casting and changed it to a compiled language, almost everyone would STILL be using that.


Van B
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:14
Too much technical stuff can put people off, like if I started up DBPro for the first and was faced with the memblock format for meshes, I'd probably hide from it. It's best to get the user understanding what each command does, rather than the why's and what-for's. Maybe an extra advanced section with each command would be cool, like you could go and get really technical stuff if you want - keep it out of the way where it won't scare any newbies.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Peter H
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:15 Edited at: 24th Sep 2004 01:16
Quote: "Considering the majority of DBP users happen to be either Adults and Teenagers who have never taken advanced math schooling or took it so long ago they can't remember, then really my point is completely valid."

guess i wouldn't fall in that category...
i'm 14 but i've taken pre-cal

but yeah i do have to agree with raven for once

IF DBPro had better documentation on it's features then it would be better.

as it is if you are a complete n00b AND you have the cash to do so...i would get DBC first and then get DBPro after you are more experienced...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Ermes
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:48
yes , the problem is DOCUMENTATION.

i.e. ... there isn't any DOCUMENTATION explaining how this thing works (3dmaths, shaders...)

can't believe to my eyes, this time Raven writed the right thing.

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JeBuS
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:52
Indeed, documentation is the key. It's a shame we'll probably have to buy the forthcoming book just to get decent documentation that should have come in the manual.


High quality models and graphics, low prices. Graphics for the rest of us.
Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:56
I prefer DBC, it actually RUNS on my system. For some reason DBPro won't run on my computer, I try and run it and this box appears telling me such and such, and the program never opens . I blame both Microsoft AND TGC

Manticore Night
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:09
Apparently DBP needs constant bug fixes, I'm fine with stable DBC

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
David T
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:15
Quote: "Apparently DBP needs constant bug fixes, I'm fine with stable DBC"


The original Db was full of bugs in its time When DBPro reaches the age Db is at now it'll be a different language.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:23
Quote: "The original Db was full of bugs in its time When DBPro reaches the age Db is at now it'll be a different language."


Yeah, but Dark Basic v1.08 was released only a matter of a year after it's original release. That basically was the patch which made Dark Basic 'Stable', v1.09 added new features free, v1.10 added the enhancements which truely extended what you could do.

Dark Basic Professional has had just over 2years now to achieve even close to the same stability. Although sure i'll admit it's closer now, it is still quite a far cry from v1.08.
If it takes as many patches I don't mind, however what I do mind is the time these patches are taking.


Van B
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:33
I know it's been said umpteen times, but I think FPSC is gonna drag DBPro into the campatible, stable and lovable language we all want it to be. For FPSC to be succesful, it needs to be able to run on practically any reasonable spec PC out there, and that's my only real concearn about Pro. And you never know what advancements the added funding will brind - like maybe a little monkey for Lee who can maintain his milk problems and back up his PC's for him so he can sleep.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:42
yeah, that's the biggest consern that has caused alot of rescentment between older (and most active) developers and TGC.

personally i think that really, what needs to be done is a massive overhaul once FPSC is finished. although sure i see it bringing some good things that alot of people have been yelling for since day one, i don't think it will help much outside of what the team actually use.

Lee has noted that moving the project from VC6 to VC7.1 killed it. As far as i'm conserned that's the perfect excuse to recode the entire thing from scratch.
What i really see lacking from TGC is the fact of proper planning and small steps.

I mean after following the Dev Diaries, it's weird to see guys who've been programming for years falling into habbits and pitfalls that you'd expect from UT/Quake/HL Mode teams.


Van B
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:50
The thing with TGC though is they're sorta like bedroom coding evolved, I doubt many coders with the luxury of working from home are much different. I mean, who hasn't ordered a pizza at 1am to fuel the long coding session ahead! - I've taken a week off work before the compo deadline, sad thing is that's probably when I'll get most of it done. I'll just have to make sure I have plenty of milk in .


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
Eric T
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 07:10
Quote: "can't believe to my eyes, this time Raven writed the right thing."


You mean he Copywrited the thing.



Quote: "I mean, who hasn't ordered a pizza at 1am to fuel the long coding session ahead! "


I can't, they close to early round here. So i have to make one of those stupid oven pizzas.

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The dude guy
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 07:15
Quote: "as i see, DBC is for beginners"


......


So you're saying since I'm new, DBC would be easier to learn?

Here's my forums www.andrewtamalunas.proboards28.com . Please join!
Ilya
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 07:17
No.

Learn DBP cuz it's better.

DBP and DBC are both basic. DBP is easier to use.

David T
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 07:38
It really does annoy me when people suggest that you shouldn't get DBPro because it's harder, or that it doesn't work etc.

It does work.

It is identical, if not easier.

The biggest problem you're going to have is if you try to convert old projects into Pro. It won't work, simply because the languages are subtely different.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"

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