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Work in Progress / Open Source Community FPS Project

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Evil stick
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 00:03
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*sigh* I love google.
anyone know of a free texture maker?
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Deadwords
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 01:22
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GIMP
Or spend 800$ more for Photoshop CS2

=-{SKaleX}-= Current Projects: -Insane Killer-=-Chaos Zone-
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Evil stick
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 02:39
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Well, I mean for 3D models.
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Mitchell
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 11:42
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GIMP

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
- Shigeru Miyamoto
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Evil stick
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 17:40
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oh, ok, how?
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Deadwords
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Posted: 4th Sep 2005 19:25
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how? what do you means?

=-{SKaleX}-= Current Projects: -Insane Killer-=-Chaos Zone-
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 00:16
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I have once again got players communicating, and you can see each other jerking around the place (due to lack of a good prediction/interpolation algorithm). Bullets are now sent across the network, so you can see each others bullets making lovely holes and debris on the walls.

I am making connections for players somewhat more elegant than before, and also thinking about what will happen with the network system in the future. I still have a bit to do with the basic connecting/disconnecting. At the moment only two players can really join, and that is only if they are both spectating, and then join the game. I will fix this by sending game info including all of the players and their status to a new player when they join the server. I will also deal with players leaving the game and leaving the server. Once that is all done I think we can start expanding into shooting each other and causing damage and blood .

I see no reason why this shouldn't be reached in the next week seeing as I haven't run into any problems with Tempest yet, though don't count on it (homework with the new school year starting etc.). Don't expect actual fragging just yet. I have to modify the level editor and level file format to place spawn points on the map.

Also, it will be quite hard to have very good gameplay until the characters move in a smooth and accurate way. I have spent long hours trying to figure out a routine to do this, and have so far failed. If anyone else has any routines they would like to donate please do, we need your help .

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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 00:43 Edited at: 5th Sep 2005 00:46
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Oh Hamish I forgot to tell you something. Tempest now has(well, in the version I have) the functions TNewPlayer and TDisconnect. I'll add TLostPlayer soon which won't take long. Just thought you would like to know incase you were about to program a workaround. I'll have this version ready for you as soon as possible.

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Mitchell
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 08:32
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Sounds cool guys. I hope to get some work done on my level this week. Haven't seen it for a while. Texturing comes now, and that's a little hard...

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
- Shigeru Miyamoto
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Chris K
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 13:36 Edited at: 5th Sep 2005 13:40
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For the multiplayer, I think we should do it like this:

- Send yAngle# of the player over 2 bytes (Scale it up to an integer between 0 and 65535 (This is an accuracy of 0.005 degrees - very accurate)
- Send zVelocity# of player (forward/backward)
- Send xVelocity# of player (strafing)

Because there is only one movement speed, the velocities can just be sent as 1, 0 and -1; and (if your clever) both can be crammed into one byte.

The yAngle# would probably need to be sent every loop, the velocities only really need to be sent every 8 or so loops (no one's going to notice if the player stops and starts moving 0.1 seconds late)

The xAngle# of the player only needs to be sent when they shoot (or every 20 or so loops if you want the models to aim where they are actually aiming). This would probably be two bytes like the other angle, although this would have better accuracy because the range is only about 170 degrees.

Finally there should be a "special byte" that is sent on certain events. It is basically split into two little byte of four bits, which can hold an number from 0 - 15. The first one says which player it refers to ( max of 16 players ), the second one says the action for example:

- 0 means player just shot
- 1 means player just jumped
- 2 means player just died
- 3 means player just crouched/stood up
- etc. etc....

So...
01000100 (34) means Player 2 just died
10101000 (21) means Player 5 just jumped

------------------------------------

It's a very fast way of doing it and interpolation is ridiculously easy, you just keep moving them at the velocity and angle you've got until you get a new one.

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Math89
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 14:08
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Quote: "It's a very fast way of doing it and interpolation is ridiculously easy, you just keep moving them at the velocity and angle you've got until you get a new one."

That's a little bit wrong :
packet 1 (t+0 sec) : movex#=0.7 : movez#=0.7
packet 2 (t+1 sec) : movex#=0 : movez#=1
If the second packet is lost, player will move with the (0.7,0,0.7 )vector so his position will be wrong.

(sorry if you can't understand me my great english )
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 17:36 Edited at: 5th Sep 2005 17:38
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Chris, the problem with that is that a lost packet means that player's object coordinates will screw up and the problem will never be corrected, meaning some very odd things will happen. I think the way Hamish is doing it right now is efficient enough. Afterall, a couple of extra bytes can't hurt.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 80%
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 18:02
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You have some good ideas Chris, I especially like the idea of encoding the player number into the event byte (although only 16 types of events may be a bit low). I'll see if I can include this somewhere.

However, for the player movement I'm afraid we will have to send the players absolute position as well as velocity. Even if packets are never lost, the fact that the different games may be running at different frame rates will make the prediction of the players' positions different. Also, sending a packet every loop is a bit excessive.

I've found out about a method of prediction called dead reckoning. The information sent about the players "state" includes the 3 dimensional position and velocity of the player. This information is received by other players and the player is moved from that position, at that velocity until the next state is received. On the players own computer, this predicted position is also calculated and compared with the players actual position. If the predicted position gets too far away from the actual position, another state is sent. This way a player can theoretically walk in a straight line for hours and only have to send one packet. Obviously the smaller you make the threshold for the distance, the more acurate the prediction will be, but the more packets will need to be sent.

The problem with this method is when a state is received, the player will suddenly jump to the new position. This is why we need an interpolation routine. I have tried using cubic splines, but with no success.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 18:32
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That seems like a nice idea but I do spot one problem: you'll have to use the reliability system for every message. This would not be too bad on parts of the level where you are traveling to a specific destination, but in shootouts where you are jumping and strafing a lot there would be quite a big overhead, as the receiver must confirm it has received a message by sending back a special message.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 80%
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Chris K
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 19:53
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The thing is, I don't think it will matter if the odd packet is lost. Because they're so small and you're sending them so regularly, if you miss one you just won't notice it. So you move in slightly the wrong direction for 1/60 th of a second .

You could top it up every 500 loops or something with the actual positions just to make sure they haven't gone off course.

The only problem is the frame rates, but if someone's frame rates are erratic then any interpolation is f**ked.

I'm sure the best method will be a more constant stream of only the very necessary information, rather than infrequent uber-packages.

---------------------

BTW a really cool and simple interpolation routine is moving the player 1/5th (or a 1/x th) of the distance between the current location and the right one every loop. For small-ish distances it would be perfect.

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Evil stick
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 20:48
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Does anyone know of a tool that will flatten a model to be textured, that's free.
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Mitchell
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 21:28
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Unwrap UVW

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
- Shigeru Miyamoto
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 21:32 Edited at: 5th Sep 2005 21:39
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Everything I found about that was in 3DS Max.

EDIT
nvm, I found one.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 22:10
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Quote: " if you miss one you just won't notice it"

You will notice if someone gets stuck on something.

Quote: "The only problem is the frame rates, but if someone's frame rates are erratic then any interpolation is f**ked."

Not if its time based, which I hope it is.

Quote: "BTW a really cool and simple interpolation routine is moving the player 1/5th (or a 1/x th) of the distance between the current location and the right one every loop. For small-ish distances it would be perfect."

Maybe but it would just act as an extra bit of latency, which people find annoying.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 80%
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Evil stick
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Posted: 5th Sep 2005 23:16
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This should be a reduced poly version of the boat.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 10:17
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Stick - Cheers!

I will think about interpolation .

Alpha - Sorry for late response, thanks for rigging the hand, it looks kind of creased, maybe you could send it this way so I can look at it.

UPDATE
I've made good progress with the multiplayer stuff. More details soon.

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Evil stick
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 13:40 Edited at: 7th Sep 2005 13:41
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If anyone wants this chaingun I found, I'll put it up.

EDIT

It's .ma or .max format.
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 22:18 Edited at: 7th Sep 2005 22:20
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ONLINE DEMO UPLOADED

Link: http://www.changi.f9.co.uk/BlackoutOnline.rar

This is just a tech demo again, no gameplay I'm afraid . Read the readme for more information. Here is how to use the online part .

Set the settings:
- Open the config.txt file in the data directory
- Change the "defaultip" to your local IP address. Remember to use port forwarding and your router's ip address if you have a router
- Change the "defaulthostip" to whoevers ip address that you want to connect to (this is local for lan, or global for the internet)
- Change the "defaultname" to your name/nick
- Change the "defaultmaxplayers" to the maximum players you want to allow to connect, if hosting your own server

Host a server:
- Open the console with the "`" key (the one next to "1" on the left)
- Type "hostserver" or "hostserver name$" or "hostserver localIP$,maxPlayers,name$" depending on whether you have set the ips in the config file, or if you want to use the name in the config file.

Join a server:
- Open the console with the "`" key (the one next to "1" on the left)
- Type "joinserver" or "joinserver name$" or "joinserver localIP$,hostIP$,name$" depending on whether you have set the ips in the config file, or if you want to use the name in the config file.

Other
Type "joingame" and "spectate" to switch between game mode and spectator mode.

Note: I think there is a bug which causes the program to crash when a player leaves the game. I can upload a fixed version when I know why. Bear with it for now .

ALSO
My IP is 80.229.23.131. Given that I am hosting a game .

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 22:25 Edited at: 7th Sep 2005 22:26
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oh boy, this'll be fun.

Downloading...

EDIT: Chris...upload...guidelines...page...


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Evil stick
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 22:40
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Let's shedule a game, so we can see it and make sure we have someone to play.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 23:13
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We're on right now.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Evil stick
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 23:27 Edited at: 7th Sep 2005 23:27
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And I can't for...........*.l.o.o.k.s. .a.t. .c.l.o.c.k.*..........soon
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 23:33 Edited at: 7th Sep 2005 23:34
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Well I'm off, but I did bring a screen!


The future is here, and I can't afford it.

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Evil stick
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 23:44
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Well, I'll be on soon,@Hamish so can hamish be on?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Sep 2005 23:52
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Hamish, are you by any chance storing player's names upon their connection? Because I noticed that your name in the screenshot Megaton showed is '????' which is only set to that before the username gets transfered.

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Evil stick
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 00:21
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Ok, downloading
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 00:26
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I don't know my ip.
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 04:08
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107.0.0.1

Use www.whatismyip.com


Arrr! Blog spotted off ter starboard!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 05:17
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Unless your behind a router, in which case you'll want to call up command prompt and type ipconfig.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 80%
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Peter H
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 17:26 Edited at: 8th Sep 2005 17:41
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downloading...
[edit]
here's what i got when i clicked on that exe (after setting the config file)...

maybe it should be called white-out?

it was a very weird 3D ish scene that i could rotate around in...and that white bar at the bottom got longer when i hit spacebar...did i do something wrong? (or does my computer just suck...)

--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 19:30
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I got that to a lesser extent when I was running two copies of the game at once. I think it happens when you run out of memory. Try restarting your pc, and not running any programs at the same time. What are your specs?

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Peter H
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Posted: 8th Sep 2005 23:24
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I tried again without anythign running and i got the same result...

teh specez are...
1.5 Ghz Pentium IV
512 MBs Ram
GeForce 4 Mx 420

it's 4 years old, and i really need to upgrade

--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Professor
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 01:59 Edited at: 9th Sep 2005 02:53
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cool demo hamsih, how do you talk?

EDIT: i got it "Enter" Maybe you should change it like this:

T = Talk to all.
Y = Talk to team.

Because enter may be used for using emplaced weapons such as my 50.cal?

Well anyway just some more ideas.

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Professor
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 02:54
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Oh yeah one more thing, i got this bug when i was testing it on the lan:

[COMMON]
PathToEXE=D:\Black Out\BlackOut\FPS Second Build\CrashOn_09_08_05.txt
[CEXE]
m_dwRuntimeErrorDWORD=Internal Code:12002
m_dwRuntimeErrorLineDWORD=6635

i was hosting then it just crashed, no one left the game or anything, im not sure what was wrong.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 15:30
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Peter - Not a clue I'm sorry . I got a white bar appearing at the top right corner of the screen, and the texture on the guns turned white when I ran low on memory, so I figure memory is the problem. It can't be the RAM though, I have 512mb too. Your graphics card is the only thing that is different from mine. I don't think it can be anything I've done that is causing it, which is very frustrating really .

Prof - Ok, I will change the talk button. And that error, did it just happen spontaniously. Has it happened more than once? Does it happen regularly? I haven't come across it before, and those error codes are internal DBPro ones, and mean bugger all to me.

I have a few bugs to fix...

1. Talk format screwed up (fixed it already)
2. You slide when talking or in the console
3. Jumping is still mucked up, I have no clue about this one, but will investigate some more.
4. Program crashed when player left game, as the talk text references a slot in the G_Player() array to get the players name. I fixed this by storing the players name in the G_TextMessage() array instead of the players array slot.
5. Player model doesn't have a texture. Possibly a DBPro bug, will look into.
6. Particle effects don't quite stay right when low fps. Caused by scaling the velocity by a value. Should be easily fixed.

These things are what I am going to do next...

1. Syncronize physics between players. This could have some dodgy side effects, mainly for player contact with the objects.
2. Make bullets collide with players properly, rather than just colliding with the Newton ellipse .
3. Make the levels all reset when joining a game (kind o a part of syncronizing the physics).
4. Send the game information to players joining game (eg. level, game type)
5. Make players die and respawn. Need to alter level format and level editor first though. Part of this is sending the player got hit messages.

When does everyone think we should start a new thread?

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CPU
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 15:54
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Hamish - What plugins are you useing? I've downloaded and updated newton, but then I'm getting a bunch of compiler errors in the multiplayer section, What DLL are you using? From what it looks like your not using EZ_serv but I'm not hot on the multiplayer scene so you'll have to point me in the right direction...

And hamish, Start a new thread as soon as you have a good stable version that has most of the bugs worked out, basic multiplayer working well, and when the website is upated some with screenshots, downloads and more. - AND - be sure to put in "Blackout - Community First Person Shooter" as the title, or something to that effect.

Cheers,

CPU

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///---///---///---UNDER CONSTRUCTION---\\\---\\\---\\\[center]
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 16:06 Edited at: 9th Sep 2005 16:07
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Attached is a rar with IanM's matrix1extend plugin (image width and height I think), the Tempest multiplayer plugin, EZ_rotate free version and Newton DLL. Include what you don't have. Also in the source code I may have left in some message box commands. Remark these out, they are BGUI2 commands (unless you have BGUI2). Note that I have used concantation with _ some of the time, and some editors may not support this.

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Professor
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Posted: 9th Sep 2005 21:31
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@Hamish: Its only crashed once, it happend when someone was trying to join my game (LAN Server).

I agree with CPU, wait until we have a stable game where you can change your name in a menu and not have to edit files.

Good work hamish i like the new demo alot! i did notice that the glock sound had alot of hiss, i took the liberty to take it out, ive posted this message 3 times now (with attached sound) and it keeps timing out so ill just wait on uploading it.

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Alkaline
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 17:22
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hey hamish is that tempest the demo one, where it only works for 3 minutes?

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 10th Sep 2005 18:23
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No, it's an old version which doesn't have all of the features the final one will have.

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Alkaline
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 05:01
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oo nice is there a readme on what the old versino has?

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 20:03
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I have one, but if you want it you'd better ask Benjamin.

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CPU
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 20:56
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Hamish, The keyword files that go with the DLL's would be nice...

-and-

With the latest patch of DBPro it has the commands "image width(imgnum)" and "image height(imgnum)" built into it, so it might be a good idea to revert to the older version, there's only 2-4 instances of the "get image width" to change to "image width" if you realy wanted to do it.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:08
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I will do. The keywords are attached, I don't have a keywords file for EZ_Rotate, I don't even think there was one anyway.

Have you got the code to compile yet? Note, there are more up to date copies of the code in the latest demo rar.

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CPU
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 04:32
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Hmmm... ok downloaded the keywords, muy many thanks!

[warning, begining minor rant...]

I have got the code to compile, however, when I was trying to "upgrade" the loopspeed code (since I noticed that sometimes movement was jerky and I had made a better set of instructions for another project a long while ago that was better) I discovered that so many of the variables were intertwined with the rest of the code that I think I would have to make a major rewrite of many of the code files in order to remove the variable dependancy, it would be realy, realy, realy nice to us other coders if you limited the dependancy to functions, even if you calculate the variable in one step,
ie:

as opposed to using "players(myPlayer).x" all through the code in different places. Although I admit that this is a basic example it gets much more complicated when you have many variables intertwined throughout the code, making it difficult to update something as simple and as basic as the loopspeed code.

Now I don't claim to be an expert on the documentation, I'd have to go read it again to be precisely sure what it has to say on the matter, however I know its getting on my nerves to not be able to update something as simple as the fpsindependent code without having to do alot of rewriting...

[end rant]

another thing, the latest files, it would also be nice if you could post "just" the code files, or whatever files were just updated, that way I don't have to download huge models, textures, and level files, over my piddly little 56k, it takes a while...

and lastly(sory if I'm sounding demanding and like an overlord, its hard to get points across without poking someone... ) if your realy convinced that the code needs a major overhal I'll concider doing it over a weekend or something, I don't know if I can toy with the net stuff at all but I can overhall most everything else... mabye though it would be best if I did that like soon before the first "major" release that we were talking about a few posts up.

Cheers,
CPU

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