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Code Snippets / What is this shape? 3D? 4D?

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 01:40
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Well crap, let me clarify a few typo's in my last post.

And I'm not 'the stuff' because I read a book at 12, nor do I know everything.

This forum needs an edit button

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 15:12
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Here's John Doans site: http://members.tripod.com/~johndoan/

Its fortunate that good-old Sir Isac didn't have access to a particle accelerator. Othersize John Doan would be trying to disprove him

The strength of the current theories is that they match experimental results better than the earlier theories - otherwise they would not have superceded them.

For my money, the only way for John Doan to disprove the current theories is to either find a better theory, or find where the current theories fail but the previous ones don't - not play word games in imaginary conversations with Einstein, or just saying 'you're wrong'.

And damn it, I missed the 100th post
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:21
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Thanks, I must say that was an eye opener! Einstein was abosolutely Wrr...RRRIIIGGGHTTTT!! Poor guy, not only does his website suck, (Come on its Tripod.) He seems to be the little boy that tries to be a rebel cause he can't fit in. Sorta the "I don't get it boo hoo hoo...sniffile, I'll just believe something else with all sincerity...that makes it right." Sorry got of topic...anyway. I must say I feel dumber after being at that site.

I hope Bugsquish hasn't left us , Don't worry about missing the 100th post at this rate we might see 200!


Best wishes

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:56
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This thread is stupid

xxxpetratxxx
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IanM
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 09:28
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That much at least cannot be denied ... not even by this John Doan bloke
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:08
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lol

xxxpetratxxx
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bugsquish
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:33
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Do you remember the phrase "don't believe everything your mamma told u"? We can come up with "evidence" that supports our theories, but none of it can be or probably ever will be proven once and for all. It smells of the Religion debate.. People will believe what they want to believe. The worst thing you can do is assume that any one side is right, because it's the commonly held view

The experiments cite a change in motion as proof of a change in time. It's a vicious circle! Does the time prove a change in motion or does the motion prove a change in time? You can believe what you want to believe based on the wording of the "proof".

The thing is that there are flaws. The methodology alone opposes Einstein's symmetristic relativity in the sense that only one side of the story can be verified experimentally in each case.
Also, what is the reference point? To say that observer A is motionless while observer B is in motion is ridiculous because both A and B are in motion compared to point C on the moon, and all three in motion compared to point D on the sun..

There is no global reference point that is always stationary (unless you consider Lorentz' ether).
Experiments have been carried out on the mass of electrons in motion relative to the earth, and to the sun. It seems that expected effects happen with only the Earth as a stationary reference point. This would mean that time dilation only applies relative to Earth so was Aristotle on the right lines? I think not.

The only realistic conclusion is that there is a percieved change in expected MOTION not time, and that it is effected by relativity to the Earth. This would suggest that Earth has it's own ether but I can't help thinking it has more to do with gravity. Time is, after all, only our way of measuring motion

Further reading:
The Problem of Reciprocity and Non-Reciprocity in Special Relativity http://www.dipmat.unipg.it/~bartocci/ep6/ep6-mull.htm

THE PROBLEM OF MOTION IN THE THEORY OF RELATIVITY
http://www.mrelativity.net/Papers/7/Pavlovic.htm

Quote: "if we do not understand motion we cannot understand Nature"
~Aristotle
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bugsquish
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:38
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oh yea and the "4th dimention is motion" thing was totally half hearted, i didnt know someone was gonna jump down my neck
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flibX0r
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Posted: 20th Feb 2003 07:15
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You are all BLOODY SAD.

This stared as a code snippets page and ended as a phisilogical discussion of the mysteries of the universe. You should all GET A LIFE






















PS The fourthdimension is time you knuckle heads

"But we couldn't do that Mr Flibble," questioned Rimmer. "Who'd clean up the mess?"
--Twin P4 Xeon, GeForce Quadro 4 128MB, 1Gb DDR RAM, Soundblaster Audigy, Hee Hee Hee--
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IanM
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Posted: 20th Feb 2003 14:40
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Didn't you used to hang around with Rimsey and Listy? Well they travelled in time, so you should know!

There! Definitive proof that time IS the fourth dimension. And anyone who disagrees now is a charmless goit!
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Kanzure
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Posted: 20th Feb 2003 15:12
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>> 4d? I don't think so. The 4th dimension is time. So to answer your question its 3d.


The 4th deminsion has not been proven to exist, time is just an illusion from our minds.
Or not..hehe..Just think...

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET.
I know HTML, PHP, Perl, JavaScript, VBScript, Visual Basic, C/C++, QBasic, YaBasic, and now Dark Basic/Pro...
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Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 06:02
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"enculer" is the verb... "enculé" is the right word...
and ... by the way ..time is 4th dimension =) and can be modified (in theorie) by the speed... and...xxxProstatexxx can u explain me your...theorie on "Black Hole" ..lol how do you say that in english... it dont sound right...the thing in the space who are that heavy that there "gravitational power" is ...stronger than everything...
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Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 06:06
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oups...that was an answer to the last message of the first page ...ive read the first..and after 30 min of reading...ive posted that without notice..that there is other page..
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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 11:28
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YOU ARE ALL WRONG! TIME ISN'T REAL!!

Its only created by us humans to measure what we have left 'til we die. Let me give you all the low down of. . . DIMENSIONS!!!

1st: Its a line.
2nd: A polygon.
3rd: A box.
4th: Neverland.
5th: COOKIES!!
6th: Heat.
7th: Cold.
8th: Pissed on Cheerios.
9th: Ewwwwwwww. . .
10th: MORE COOKIES!!
11th: When you're high on mary jane.
12th: Pepsi.
13th: Coke.
14th: Melting clocks.
15th: Goats!
16th: WOMBATS!!!!
17th: Laser beams that shoot into the sky!
20th: Take that outer space!
18th: I skipped this one.
21st: NUMBERS!
19th: Damn, forgot this one too.
22nd and final: Pie.

Now shut up and dance.

I GOES BY ALI AND KILLMESTUPID!!
drkCounter-Strike: %13
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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 13:36
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hey you forgot girls

xxxpetratxxx
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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 21:33
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I didn't forget, just man haven't fully figured out girls ;D

I GOES BY ALI AND KILLMESTUPID!!
drkCounter-Strike: %13
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IanM
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 22:34
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Time not a dimension? Hah! What about your melting clocks then?

And number 18 is that frothy scum you see floating on polluted rivers, also known as McDonalds milkshakes.
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ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:16
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There is an equation used in physics, which compares the speed of objects against light and a relativistic mass.
The Relativistic mass is (M)
The standing mass (m) is the actual mass of the object when there is zero displacement
c is the speed of light and v is the speed of the mass.
M = m/((v^2/C^2)/1) This means that an object travveling at the speed of light has zero mass, also, objects gain mass as
they get closer and closer to the speed of light. there is also something floating around in my advanced physics books that time slows down as you reach the speed of light. I don't know whether this is confirmed or not, but the zero mass thing kinda proves Star trek completely wrong!
Regarding the object (or lines) in the source code. This can only be perceived as 2d as this is just a series of 2d lines which all meet with another line at each end. Therefore this object is undeniably 2d. now if this object was saved as an x. or .3ds or whatever, it would actually be inmpossible. Regarding the 4th dimension, who knows, and frankly who cares? all I know is that there are a lot of unexplained things such as:
Transporters (from star trek):
There is a real working transproter somewhere on this planet but it technically isnt. The device destroys one atom, and recreates it somewhere else.
The GUT (Grand unified theory):
Nuetrons and protons are held together, but how? not magnetic or electric feilds as a nuetron has no charge. speculation just suggests the "Strong Force" an unexplained phenomena that isnt proven.
also light:
light is two things. it has mass, but also acts as a wave. Some physicist from ages ago speculates that everything emits radiation of a certain wavelength. just that a 1000kg car turns out a wavelength of about 10^-35 m or someting. the only mass know to produce a detectable wavelength with this theory is an electron, with a mass of 9.11*10^-31kg.
Aliens:
Who knows?

The 4th dimesion is likely to be something like time, but it could be a parralell universe, something similar to subspace or whatever. but if anyone is curious about the transporters and laws they break. <www.ex-astris-scientia.com> is a star trek site dedicated to the inconsistencies with the programs. (website might not have -'s in its name)
That line example reminds me of that screensaver that pcs have built into them (usually older versions of windows!)

It is 1:12am of the 4th dimension (lol) and I am about to enter the ?'th dimesion (sleep).

Sorry to prolong this post but i had to give my 2 cents.

Note the n'th dimension is where zool comes from (a bit of gaming history from me!).
please don't shun me as I am half asleep and.... yamn.... i could..... n't..... care if the 4th dime...... zzzzzzzzzz....zzzzzzzz

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
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ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:21
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my last post didnt make sense. oh well.

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
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KillMeStupid
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 04:46
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Give up! My theory is PRIMES I TELLS YOU!

I GOES BY ALI AND KILLMESTUPID!!
drkCounter-Strike: %13
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ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 13:33
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the 4th dimension is that eerie glow from behind my wardrobe!

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
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IanM
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 14:55
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Haven't 'they' also made an electron 'move' faster than light using quantum tunnelling?

Number 19 is earwax. Just mine though - I have my own personal dimension.
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Kanzure
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 15:36
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Tunneling? "Worm Holes"? Yet another speculation. Yes, theres warped space, but a hole to travel from one warped point to another? Hmm...

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET and Multi2k.NET.
Nothing is something, and something is then nothing. Life is an illusion.
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ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 16:27
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but for something to travell faster than the speed of light the above equation theorises that the electron would have a negatuve mass :S (which is physically impossible). Quantum tunneling? ooooh sounds star trekky (as with a lot of quantum physics!) my physics teacher could be a valuable resource?? (the above equation is also wrong sorry!
it should be:
M = m/(1-(V^2/C^2)) If V > 2*10^8 (Spd of Light [c]) then M = negative.
And what the hell has this got to do with the 4th dimesion?. May i also add that the glow behind my wordrobe is now getting brighter!!!!

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
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jnimeroff
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Greetings,

First, let me say that dimensions are for forming frames of reference (directionality in some sense). The dimensions do not have to be orthogonal (meet at right angles), be straight, or even be constant. A 3D curve can be represented parametrically at functions x(t), y(t), and z(t), where t is a straight constant dimension, but x, y, and z are not.

When talking about the "real" world, the first 3 dimensions do not have to be spatial, and the 4th doesn't have to be temporal. My doctoral thesis was on a 6-dimensional representation for light filling a space. This is a real representation called the plenoptic function. The first 3 dimensions were the position of a viewer. The next two dimensions represented the direction that the viewer was gazing. The last dimension represented time. The domain of the function was (space, direction and time), and the range was incident light. So I should know that you can MAKE UP any dimensions you want.

As for Einstein, relativity, and other interesting stuff, look at "Faster Than the Speed of Light: The Story of a Scientific Speculation by Joao Magueijo." It is interesting in that it expands Einstein's ideas quite nicely, in some sense mapping Einstein's theories as functions of "universe time."

I more layman terms, the book contains very interesting info on Lorentz Transforms and the speed of light. The basic idea is that light does have a constant speed at each instant in the existance of our universe. So the constant c is actually replaced by a function c(t), where t varies ever so slowly through the lifetime of the universe. Very cool theory with huge ramifications.

I have my fireproof suit on, so let me have it!

Best,
Jeff

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 22:49
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Wow! This post really is dragging on.

Yum! Yum! Yum! Yum!
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ConsoleBoy164
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If c is a function of (c(t)) t decreases as c increases, this means for time to stop, you would have to have an infinite speed, or to c = 0 then time would have to be at an infinite rate. If you could reach an infinite speed, you would be everywhere at once (aparantly transwarp in star trek!!). Also space could be the 4th dimension. As space can be altered in the way dimesions can be. (Quantum tunnelling?) Wormholes/black holes also explain the 4th dimesion as space is bent/warped here. Quantum slipstream drives (star trek again!) would just be an expansion of quantum tunnelling. This can explain alot about the 4th dimesion..... and could also get me yelled at in this thread! Question, how many people have heard of the Atari Jaguar? (sorry, have to break this curse!!)

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
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turchino
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 00:51
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OK.. it's my turn:

1) go to this address http://dogfeathers.com/java/hyprcube.html

2) go to the cinema to see The Cube 2 - HyperCube

the life seems meaningless.. :-p
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Kanzure
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 04:32
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What's that suppost to..do? mean?..HELP! lol

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET and Multi2k.NET.
Nothing is something, and something is then nothing. Life is an illusion.
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jnimeroff
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ConsoleBoy164 writes...
> If c is a function of (c(t)) t decreases as c
increases, , this means for time to stop, you would have
> to have an infinite speed, or to c = 0 then time would have to be at an infinite rate.

I never said that c(t) is a (monotonically) increasing function. I just said that c has a value that is dependent on universe characteristics that can be encapsulated in a t (time) parameter that describes the state of the universe. t is not necessarily the wall-clock time we are used to.

Maybe c(U(ut)) where U is a function that describes the state of the universe and ut is a parameter that fixes the universe time would have been a better simplification .

Best,
Jeff

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Jim
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I think the best way to explain time is:

Imagine a monorail traveling in a straight line for infinity.


The monorail has one coach travelling in one direction at a Const speed.....


We and the universe are on that coach on a one way ticket to infinty.

The Universe has infinate possibilities. So do YOU!
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CarlTaylor
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"WHY would time be the 4th?"

it has a lot to do with geometry, actually. you see, you can always check a point on a 2d plot of points to see if anything exists on it. This is done by looking at x,y. Similar are things on a 3d plot, instead though it is x,y,z. In a 4th dimentional plot, you look at x,y,z, and the time. The x,y, and z change as time changes. It makes logical sense..."the 4th dimension can be time or another spatial one" it is both at the same time, there is no "or."

and please, for the love of god, NOBODY ON HERE TALK ABOUT ANTIMATTER!! it is VERY unlikely that anyone will actually know anything about it besides the fact that its crazy and strange and being made in small amounts in labs.... dont drag it into our debate if its going to just confuse people...

btw, i like this topic, finally people to talk to about physics

baseball = life
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 15:55
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1d is a single point it can't be place on any axis it just is.
2d is a 1d point or points position on 2 axis
3d is a 1d point or points position on 3 axis
a 4d picture is a 3d image compiled over a set time period. like a spear moving in a circlar path the 4d picture to show this is a torus, a intertub shape for those who don't know what a torus is.
the 4d axis is a time refrence a set period over which movement occurs.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 17:18
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"enculer" is the verb... "enculé" is the right word...

Well u obviously dont know how they r used then coz it was this french girl that typed it so...be quiet

xxxpetratxxx
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Mike Inel
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 08:11
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.............Why don't you all make another topic but still about this... THIS TOPIC ALREADY GOT 130+ MESSAGES!!!!

.....
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Hamish McHaggis
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whats the point?

Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!
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o0o0The Code Keeper0o0o
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ha ha, this is long!!

urm...bye...

"let me stay where the wind will whisper to me
where the raindrops as they're falling tell a story"
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Bizzo
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I just spent 20 minutes reading this thread and I have to say its interesting.

All I gotta say is.. the 4th dimension is time! I stand by eintsien's theories.

Its all about world lines.

"Its time to kick a$$ and chew bubblegum... and I'm all outta gum" - Duke
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CorruptionsMyth
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time a 4th deminsion-no time is merely a measurement term
motion a 4th deminsion-no then wouldnt we already be in the 4th deminsion??
The cube thing?-maybe hard to imagine but it is the only post in this topic that kind of makes since

http://www.corruptionsmyth.cjb.com
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Arrow
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 08:22 Edited at: 17th Apr 2003 08:39
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Time doesn't exist. It is a illusion create by owr minds. It is not a constant for it flows differently for each person, there is no true way to measure it. Time does not exist.

Quote: "If all the previous dimensions deal with geometry, WHY would time be the 4th?" why you ask....because thats the way its been for about 80 years since we've had the Theory of Relativity"
Siecentics thought that our solar system was only one out there, and there were no other planets for hundreds of years. Just becuase a theory has last for a while doesn't prove it's correct.

In any case how do we know that there are any dimensions, let alone three? If you rotate a 3D object 90 degetes in any direction then it is at the same axis as when it started. Everything is perspective, we have yet to gain the knowledge to grasp the fundementals of the universe. In 100 years all the theories we have to day will be disproven.

On topic, nice code but I was expecting something I saw in another program somewhere, I wish I could remember what it was called.

{edit}
Whoops, I didn't see there were 2 more pages, oh well, my comments still stand true.

The Legend of Zelda IS NOT an RPG! It's an Adventure, just like Ico or Dark Cloud.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 12:38
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actually, as i knew it...

Time is a dimension, just like the x axis is a dimension..

x can go left and right, but not up and down...well....
Time can go forward and back... problem is we just don't navigate it so well^_^

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
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Bluedeep
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Posted: 17th Apr 2003 14:37
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Time is 4th dimenssion, and that´s it.
It´s hard to prove right now, but i´m going to make program that proves it, i can´t post it until monday.
i give you taste of it:

when you move in 2d along the x axis from startline to endline(distance=20m)
speed on x axis=10m/s
then speed of x axis is normal

and when you start to move on y axis, lets say speed of 2m/s, but you can´t go over 10m/s of total speed then...
speed of x axis=totalspeed-yspeed=8m/s

same happens when we are in 3d
totalspeed=xspeed+yspeed+zspeed

and then we come to 4d where...
totalspeed=xspeed+yspeed+zpseed+time
in 4d totalspeed is allways lightspeed(300,000km/s)

because we peoples travel so slow, we don´t see speed effecting to time.
This effect is tested with airplane with has been atomic clock in it, when landed, clock in airplane has tic slower than clock in ground.

Do we need more prof?
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Kensupen
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 05:38
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Well, to answer the original question...

If that object existed in "real" space it would be a morphing 3D object.

Here's how I come to that conclusion:
1. It can only have Height,Width and depth no matter what way it's moving or rotating.
2. I don't know of any object that has "TIME". How would you measure the time of a rock? (Not how old it is, just it's own measure of time)

As far as I know, only 3D object can exist in our universe. If anyone wants to prove me wrong, I'd love to see it. I like to learn that physics is wrong.

-Kensupen
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andrew11
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 06:37 Edited at: 20th Apr 2003 06:56
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Everything has infinite dimensions, but we can only expirience 3 at a time. Our whole life is just one "object", and every moment is a cross section of it. A plain is a cross section of a cube as a cube is a cross section of a hypercube. No n-dimensional objects exist. Only infinite dimensional. Therefore, time does not exist.

(At least I think)

All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors." -Anon.
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jimbo1913
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 23:28
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Hehehe - very entertaining.

But..
Im just starting out in 3 demensions. Thats why I bought DB. I dont even want to think about sin, cos and tan (2D btw).

And everything in StarTrek has ALREADY happned in an infinite universe.

from future review of next game....
'..while the programmer of this game may not be God-like he certainly represents the next step in human evolution. (10/10).'
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 23:57
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This was all fun and games 'back in the day'. Now I wish nothing more then to see this post die.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 03:49
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Think of the universe as this,

always has been and always will be, no beggining and no end.

beyond the atom you have quarks and beyond quarks ? ? ?

our universe is the building block of something bigger ! ! !

we cannot percieve any of the dimmensions that we exist in correctly because we just cannot handle the thought of infinity - FACT.

there is an infinate number of dimensions before ours and an infinate number after.

We measure space and time in unites such as meters and hours to add meaning to our existence.

this is the way it has been and always will be.

think about it. . .
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 04:20
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Are you considering A Dimension and a universe to be the same thing?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 04:22
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Darn typo. Let me say that again.

Are you considering a dimension and our universe to be the same thing?

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 13:24
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Without dimension there would be no universe, the dimensions that we see, feel and exist in we call the universe.
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