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FPSC Classic Product Chat / game consoles biz service

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emanresu 1963
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:28
Hi, I looked at the new screen shots and I appreciated they wery much,
they are confirming a well done work. We shall have to hope, wait and see...

In case FPSC will be a success ( we all are hoping that ),
please, could you create a technical service to convert our (and also yours )

created games for xbox and playstation ?
The possibility of extend our market to the most important
consoles,beyond to the PC'S one would be GREAT and seriously important.

The service could be named something like:
TGC GAME CONSOLES BIZ SERVICE; it could be working so:
Any user which created a (valid) game with FPSC could be benefiting of your

service by an annual subscription and furthermore he/she should pay a fixed fee

for each conversion request (remaining that your percentage profit for the PC

version will be still valid also for xbox and playstation versions).
You should convert the game in your offices by your personal special and well

optimized re-compilers, and moreover your role would be also to
dialogue for any circumstance,and obtain the most convenient and fructuous

contracts from the Microsoft and Sony's representants for all
interested parts (that is: You- creating optimized and professional tools and

furnishing the service and We- creating games).
After conversion would done you would send a cd copy to the person which

created the game,for his\her personal testing, verifying,and ... personal

satisfaction.
At this point the game would be substantially ready to be packed and sold in

the world by the concordated ways.

Yes, I known, it is very very premature now, to "launch" a such proposal;
but, I'd like to know if you would be POTENTIALLY interested about, if you
retain it theoretically feasible; or if you,basing in your own knowledge,

perhaps,are absolutely sure in that it is a thing pertaining and sustainable

only by rich companies or millionaire people.

bye
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 06:43
Do you know how much it costs to get an XBox licence??

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Mattman
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:28
No no no no no no no no, you are insane.

Song of the whenever i feel like updating it....
Where dead bullies go, by Sugarplastic
Rob K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:37
Quote: "please, could you create a technical service to convert our (and also yours )

created games for xbox and playstation ?"


FPSC isn't good enough for that. It is designed for you to create fun shootem' ups for you and your friends to play on PC. It won't produce commercial quality games that could rival say, the Medal of Honor series.
In addition, TGC have neither the resources nor the manpower to publish console games at the moment.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 07:41
Quote: "Do you know how much it costs to get an XBox licence??"


oh oh oh, i do!
heh, the Microsoft X-Box license isn't that much actually. it's more expensive to get into Playstation 2 development; (well GC)

problem is that the PS2 is the only one without a guidance board who evaluate everything, which means even if FPSC was high enough quality, and was licensed for a console; it wouldn't automatically mean that your games could be on them.

for consoles you MUST be published to legally run on thier machines. it's a pre-requisite of development on them.

mod-chipping no matter how widely accepted it is, technically is still illegal.


David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 08:02
You can't convert any DBPro made game to a console. That includes FPSC.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Antdizzle
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 13:59
Quote: " You can't convert any DBPro made game to a console. That includes FPSC."

Why is that?
Mx5 kris
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 14:06
dbp has the same tech as fpsc

David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 17:56
Quote: "FPSC was made in DBPro."


The games connot be converted without recoding. In some cases the whole thing might have to be recoded, in some cases not all'd have to be recoded (xbox?) but still major changes needed.

Since DBpro compiles to machine code it's the compiler that'd been altering.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
emanresu 1963
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 20:20
(I wrote this after the second post)



The Coding Area ,
No, I don't. how much cost it? and how much is it for playstation? however, surely I imagine that it is a very expensive thing... but..., we ALL, jointly, could constitute a more strong GROUP; that is: say about one hundred (or more?) of FPSC users seriously business determined,plus YOU at TGC for a SINGLE license associating we all(assuming an annual-type license or similar); OR are you intending that one license is valid for ONE game only?

ok..., but examining the market's current situation, Microsoft and Sony, but perhaps specially Microsoft, could be interested, very interested, to increase up the games'quantity available in the market for their own console.Therefore, They COULD accept to concede a very special license (group-based, annual-based,strongly percentage-based, etc.) to TGC which is a very qualified
and affordable "brand" about generic indie and small and very small game developers.

ok, probably I'm flying too much through my fantasy, but, repeat, this is a
dissertation in theoretical line.

I'm trying to understand how much is possible penetrating in game business market under given circumstances; AND if it is possible find/create new and less expensive ways...

bye

____________________________________________________________________



Rob K ,

Thanks for your answer, I'm not an expert in game making and all your given information are very precious for me to know the sector.
however, I strongly think that FPSC should be ABSOLUTELY built without "inferiority complex" ( ok, sell it for 10 time more the now assigned price,if needs!) to give WE ALL as power and quality as possible, or sufficiently possible in PROFESSIONAL game making;
the "pathetic" line to "create fun shootem' ups for you and your friends to play" is WRONG for both, YOUR CLEVER developer and WE CLEVER aspiring game creators.
Please, making FPSC You COULD build a pair of wings for we all; You don't have to build a pair of toy-wings!
finally, our goal ( making an example based on movie industry) isn't to build
a new "The lord of the rings" but built something like "Starscky and Hutch" or
comparable to the small tv-movies, etc.)
Let me know.

Bye.

Rob K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 21:44
I think the problem Emanresu is that you need to understand who FPSC is aimed it and what it is designed to do. It is primarily aimed at hobbyists who don't like programming but want to create games for fun.

FPSC could be used to create good games, but it is *not* really aimed at the professionals, who already have many other tools available for them.

Quote: "the "pathetic" line to "create fun shootem' ups for you and your friends to play" is WRONG for both, YOUR CLEVER developer and WE CLEVER aspiring game creators."


I'm afraid its not wrong Emanresu, it is simply realistic. I am sure that Lee Bamber would agree.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 22:36
Quote: "No, I don't. how much cost it?"

You can either wait until I get an e-mail back from Microsoft or Raven can answer the question.

I doubt TGC would be able to afford the license - converting to the Yahozee (or whoever its spelt) would be much cheaper, but then you would spend the next few years re-doing the compiler.

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 22:38 Edited at: 12th Nov 2004 22:43
Quote: "it is primarily aimed at hobbyists who don't like programming but want to create games for fun."


BARHP! Wrong. Rich and Rick have both said quite a few times that they are not trying to aim this product at the same market as DBP, but casual gamers who know NOTHING about programming to make games they want to.

Hense the oversimplified nature. What they're trying to go for is basically Quake3-Style Modifiable Engine; without the need to ever touch a programming language.

I've touched on the issue a few times so far, that currently the quality of the product is Hobbiest level; and maybe that will change, because actually that fact comes down to level complexity, shader effects, and model quality more than anything else.
While of-course there is no way it could stand up to Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Painkeeper, etc.. The market they are aiming for will be expecting that.

Unfortunately once again, the idea is good; but the execution is obviously that from a group of programmers. Clear signs that creativity is being replaced with practicality; which is all well an good but isn't going to get them the audience they are looking for.

With the latch onto DarkBASIC Professional, this will never be releasable for the GameCube or Playstation2. Don't think I didn't notice you missing out the GameCube above; sorry to break it to you but it actually has the biggest potencial for FPS games given a) the lack of said titles and b) the controls design is perfect for control system. Despite what you would like to believe the GC has a bigger market than the X-Box currently, and that market is not full of 8yo kids wanting to play Mario.

This said, with the correct license it would be possible to have the games converted to the X-Box. While having this work in theory is a good idea, and not one that Microsoft would dismiss (after all this would give them an advantage over other machines for a while and really truely instate the 'FPS Console' name) the problem is the practicality of the situation.

In order to not open the doors to piracy alot of money and effort would have to be spent to make sure that this product could not be used as the same backdoor that PSO has offered for the GC.

We also have to consider that while Microsoft are capable of financing such a task, The Game Creators are not a multi-national corporation with a NASDAQ index
Not that they'd be against that, but they're not quite there yet.

As said above, the fact of the matter is the practical and realistic look at the suggestion; not the feasibility.
It is possible, but financially it would be a risk, that honestly does not show it's worth.

Particularly that this generation of consoles is in thier final year.

Quote: "You can either wait until I get an e-mail back from Microsoft or Raven can answer the question."


Depends on the development context.
There is a Lease title (1-4years), Product title, and Fully Fledge Development Partnership.

iirc the prices are, $50-200,000; $180,000; and $300,000 respectively. on-top of that you still have to find your own developer, as Microsoft only develops companies that they sign up.
Which although that costs nothing to you (infact they fund you), it's known as the Soul Contract because anything you create becomes thier property.


Rob K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 00:05
Quote: "BARHP! Wrong. Rich and Rick have both said quite a few times that they are not trying to aim this product at the same market as DBP, but casual gamers who know NOTHING about programming to make games they want to."


Which is exactly the same thing as the quote you disagreed with! It would seem that this is argument for the sake of it.

I suggest that you stop trying to tell people who were at the convention, such as myself, what FPSC is about. After all, Lee did give us a 4hr presentation on it.

Quote: "Which although that costs nothing to you (infact they fund you), it's known as the Soul Contract because anything you create becomes thier property."


"Soul Contract" - sounds like an evangelist's take on Mortal Kombat.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
uman
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 01:12
If the official intention for FPSC is only to :

Quote: "create fun shootem' ups for you and your friends to play"


Then why on earth is anyone in various threads here at the forum even talking license set-ups, selling fees/methods, game platforms, logo display etc.

How many are going to pay "themselves", or have enough friends who want to "pay a friend" for a game on any platform.

If the official intention and capability of FPSC is going to be as quoted here then no one will need a license or sales option and all games made with it would be freeware or at best shareware and not many of those would be considered worthy of any of the mentioned platforms anyway.

Lets hope for a little more than the "your self or friends" scenario
Rob K
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 01:51 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 01:54
Quote: "Then why on earth is anyone in various threads here at the forum even talking license set-ups, selling fees/methods, game platforms, logo display etc."


T3DGM had a license scheme, yet it is unlikely that many games were sold which were created with the software.

FPSC contains TGC's IP, so obviously they will charge a fee if anyone wants to sell a game made with the software. I personally don't think that many users will be affected, however as long as the option of selling an FPSC game remains, so will the licensing issue.

DarkBASIC users seem to have a fear of licenses as well. Originally DarkBASIC Pro was going charge a small fee for shareware licenses. Users were up in arms, and some very long threads were started on the issue. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that few users would be affected, after all, the bestselling DBPro 'games' were written by TGC themselves (I am referring to the Driving Test Success series).

If you really want to put FPSC in context, look at the price. It will only cost £28, which is the same price I would pay for a normal PC game. Contrast this with professional or semi-professional development tools which cost hundreds of dollars, even those which use a royalty system in addition to the initial cost of the product. Look at Lee's worklogs as well to understand what FPSC is, and what FPSC is not. I think FPSC will be a good product, and will do what it is supposed to do very well, but it would be a mistake to misunderstand it.

On a final note, I will say that FPSC has been designed to be expandable, so there will be some users who are able to create some very good games with FPSC, with original art, sound effects, and even custom AI scripts or shaders. These people however will probably constitute a minority of FPSC users. Most people will not stray from the media, scripts or shaders provided.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
emanresu 1963
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 03:12
The coding area,
Rob k,
Raven,
Thank you very much to we all for your exhaustive answers.

Raven, you are right,I wrongly considered the GameCube's market inferior respect to the xbox'one (despite I consider the GameCube
an excellent game console);excuse me for my misinformation.
However, my discuss could be surely considered "valid" for any console, even modern cellular phones, game boy, n-gage and similar...

well, you mentioned that ..."this generation of consoles is in thier final year"..., I don't know how the game console world are
going to evolve, but I hope that in future could be exist "international creators associations" through which small
companies, indie and single developers could get, with their better
products, to the "consoles-medium" by special licenses.

As soon as FPSC will be released I ,probably, considering my peculiar exigencies,will be unsatisfied ... but until that moment I'm here hoping.
If, finally,FPSC will give me the power of building (only PC version ,ok)- ( basing "only" on my artistic skills and talent, that is: without mathematics walls)games like Quake3, Quake2, Unreal, Turok, Half-Life (the first one ,ok) I will be HAPPY and
SATISFIED.
I don't pretend to create astounding top level games at all.
and thus, perhaps, could create/obtain my little space in game making business (on low or medium level, ok)-NOT like a casual
gamer BUT like (a new?) category : "Artist-Still-Creating-Valid-
Games-Through-Special-Optimized-Tools"
ok, probably it sounds a bit comical, but it is only to render the
concept.

Bye.

Dylnuge
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Posted: 15th Nov 2004 07:52
If you really do want to make Xbox games, try learning C++ and DirectX script. Of course, this is a dark basic related fourm, so you would need to go elswhere, but there are tons of developer forurms, resources, ect. for those who want to learn C++ or DirectX script or create Xbox games.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Nov 2004 23:08
It would be impossible to allow FPS Creator to create games that could run on the PS2, Gamecube and, although to a lesser extent, the X-Box. It is not something we plan on supporting any time soon. The license costs are prohibitive and it's the totally wrong sort of market. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony control their consoles (and what games are allowed to be released on them) with a vengence.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 23:15
For those interested, I couldn't get any prices out of Microsoft, read the following for the reason :

Quote: "After a recent business review we have now decided to close down the Incubator and Registered Developer Program. The primary method for becoming an Xbox developer is to be working with a licensed publisher on an approved Xbox title. Once you have a publisher in place they should contact their Account Manager in order to get your concept approved, after which you will be signed up as an Xbox developer and allowed to order Xbox development hardware.



One of the key features of Xbox is the ease for developers to move onto the hardware from their prototyping. Unlike other consoles there is a lot of work that can be achieved on a standard PC that will not have to re-written once you move onto full development kit. A PC with an Intel 733-MHz Pentium III processor, 128-MB PC100 RDRAM, an NVIDIA GeForce3 graphics card, running DirectX 8 can act as a low-end Xbox dev system to enable you to prototype your concept. We also recommend that you prototype using as suitable controller and output your video through a TV.



Regards,



Adrian Curry

Xbox Account Manager

"


Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
Van B
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Posted: 19th Nov 2004 00:08
I can imagine mod teams making the most of FPSC, like those with decent modellers and artists who have used much more complex engines in the past. Nobody can say right now what sort of quality they'll be, not even Lee, really though anyone looking to totally customise their game should learn to code rather than relying on what might happen with FPSC. But the possibility is there for the ambitious users to do some cool games at least. Personally I think the map system will be where the most ambitious projects fall down, artists have an irritating knack of asking for the impossible whenever they can. Solo user games are probably what I'd find the most interesting though, it's more unique when it's the product of 1 mind rather than half a dozen minds full of second-hand ideas all battling for a place.

There's millions of gamers out there with FPS game ideas, that's the target market - other genre's have other tools, it's as simple as that. I can see how an XBox version of FPSC would be cool, but it's not likely to happen - as for making XBox games on your PC using FPSC, NEVER gonna happen. It is a shame, I'd like to see more tools for consoles, I mean the boys are quite adept composers after just a few goes on MTV music generator, kids would loose themselves in an XBox version of FPSC.

IMHO the whole industry has overlooked a gap in the market, things like cartoon creators on consoles could be massive - especially as you could record it onto VCR and show it to your friends really easily. PC's are very far from ideal for children to use.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.

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