Look, whether it was promised on the box or in the forums..
The fact remains that Lee himself said that we would be getting a much better TPC SDK, something which would allow us to develop with the full engine.
I as I'm sure many others, don't really give a damn about this Dark
Game SDK which is just the DarkBASIC Engine rewritten in a way that quite frankly is done in a way that DarkBasic should be written and released currently so the compiler can do a standard Link rather than adding the entire sodding libraries..
Yet if you want to develop with DarkBasic Professional like that you'll have to learn one of the C++ languages (notably Visual C++) and pay for DBP again.
The more pressing matter is the fact that if you wish to want to use the function controls from DBP, there is no longer a free option for you to use. As Mike said above TGC don't seem to look like they're going to happily accept people who start creating interfaces of thier own.
I don't think anyone here is asking or expecting a fully-fledged independantly useable Engine for thier TPC projects.. Seriously the work that goes into creating the Interface/Wrapper, is around 2-3days.
Quite simply, if they are going to take away are current means and dictact that we cannot make another without the threat of legal action... then they should compensate us with the OFFICIAL one we were promised over 2 sodding years ago! One of the things DBP & the team did promise, and i'm not sure about the box (as i've lost it) is the fact of being able to FREELY extend the features of the language with a development SDK.
If anyone here seriously believes that the GlobStruct.h actually provides this, without the knowlage and understanding of C++ to extend it then fine. While I know how to create a Wrapper similar to Ian's, I have no idea how the hell to use the Pointers of the DLLs to Import then and prototype the functions.
First we have to wait for FPSC for Update6, which has been in development almost half of DBPs shelf-live, and now plug-in developers have had thier legs effectively cut-off from the knee.
In both instances just for TGC to gain another slice of business profit.. and in both cases to be perfectly honest I'm seeing them continually aiming for nitché markets and not developing in such a way as to capture a larger target audience.
Developing this SDK just for the Visual C++ market, and not the RAD capable Visual C# or Visual Basic .Net markets will hinder sales.
Just like FPSC visually, is not even close to professional titles.. and while it was said that 'reality wise, we can't hope to achieve Doom3' you need to be able to show that you can play with the big boys.
TGC really needs to plan thier feet on the ground and decide what markets they REALLY are going after, and carefully design FOR them. Not simply start a project and half-way through think, 'oh well wouldn't this be good for such'n'such too?'
Quote: "I have no gripes whatsoever with the DBP 3D engine - it's a very capable and versatile animal. Sure it has some odd bugs, but I wouldn't mind betting that a select few of those could be symptomatic of the compiler. I think we all know the compiler is quickly becoming the bottleneck for this product and this seems to be the cure..."
For people who can develop using a different compiler. What about those people who've paid thier £70-odd for DBP and can program Basic?
You ever used Visual Basic .Net or Visual C#? Those languages for different people are much easier and feel quicker to develop something within.
If TGC dropped this silly non-sense of retaining compatibility with Visual C++ 6.0 (which Microsoft have stopped support for!) and looked towards developing forward. A managed code version would not only be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier to debug, but it is compatible with each of the versions of Visual Studio .Net (2002/2003/2005)
You say, that 'Mike should be compensated for his work' and fine.. that's only fair. I don't see why the hell plug-in developers who are not planning to retail thier copies of software should have to pay for the right to do that!?
look at Walaber, he puts one hell of alot of work and effort into his Netwon Plug-in. Without the interface that effectively means that unless he purchases the Dark Game SDK, 1.3.0 will be the final plug-in he releases, or DarkBASIC Professional 1.05.7 will be the final update he supports.
Walaber does so much work and has for so long that he deserves to be compensated for his work too, but he is willing to produce a free plug-in provided the materials are free for him to do so.
Mike is on a steady income as part of the TGC Full-Time staff. The work he does never goes uncompensated. Mike isn't a TPC, like RobK or WOLF.. He is a FULL-TIME member of TGC being paid for everything he does. To me that is his compensation.
Also, how much does TGC expect to retail the SDK at?
£70, £100, £150? per title?
If the Engine was licensable with terms of a license that ment developers for TPC DLLs could use it free, as you were using a TGC product.. you could then make retail licenses PER TITLE, PER PLATFORM, and no doubt quite a damn sight higher than whatever your planning.
You know why Middleware like Renderware does so well despite it's cost? Because they cater to the developers needs and they provide developers with a free trial. Same goes for Ogre3D.
Those are SUCCESSFUL middleware products. Or we could look at Torque which is still a relatively struggling company who's biggest customer is A6 Game Studio, which DarkBASIC Professional is constantly outselling.
I mean the choice fine is ultimately on TGCs shoulders, problem is though.. are they going to be happy constantly settling for this hobbiest range of developers?
Personally I would aim DarkBASIC Professional at the Hobbiest Range, and provide Dark SDK with a License.. releasing it free. Allowing Professional developers to have it at cost (but still underwriting Renderware), and allowing developers for our own product to have it with no cost.
You DO NOT want to hamper the ability of those who are currently updating your OWN product to make it look better. Sorry but not even Microsoft are that stupid.
