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Dark GDK / I don't understand why DarkSDK cost so much more!!

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Bulleyes
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 22:49 Edited at: 1st Dec 2004 23:32
DarkSDK cost a lot more than I thought!! Why??!! From my point of view, it should cost almost the same as DBpro, or at least it shouldn't cost that much! Please excuse me if I miss some business sense. But this is the way I see it,

1. I can create a full commercial app with DBpro with less than $70, whereas I am only entitled to create freeware game with DarkSDK at the same cost.

2. DBpro and DarkSDK shares the same technology. I wouldn't say that DarkSDK is faster than DBpro. In fact, DBpro is slower than DarkSDK is due to its inefficient compiler. The engine that drives both technologies are essentially the same!

3. If I would to buy DarkSDK, I need to throw in another sum of money to purchase Visual C++, which cost around $100. We have 8 programmers in our company, that can sum up to as much as $800

4. I lost all the power of other TPC, such as NuclearGlory Collision, EZrotate, Matrix1 Utilities, and much more! Yes, those can be ported for use with DarkSDK, but that will takes some more time.

5. I lost some simplicity in BASIC, such as string manipulation, non-strict variable declaration. Yes, you can argue that you can get the power of those C++ class library and OOP, but is it enough payoff all those cumbersome stated above? Furthermore, we can have the power of C++ in DBpro via TPC right now.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am opened to any arguments. Can someone convince me a good reason to buy DarkSDK?

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 22:52 Edited at: 1st Dec 2004 22:54
Err if you need and like the simplicity of BASIC (string manipulation, etc etc) and are happy with the speed of DBPro, then the answer is simple - you DON'T need the Dark Game SDK.

The differences in speed are quite noticeable, and not just from an FPS rate. Download a sample to compare and see.

Whether this, combined with being able to develop in Visual Studio using a proper C++ syntax is enough for you is an entirely personal choice.

As for the price, Dark Game SDK is actually cheaper unless you need to sell your game - and I can count on just my fingers the number of people here who actually do manage to take a game that far (it isn't many!).

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
Bulleyes
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 23:02 Edited at: 1st Dec 2004 23:06
Well, my argument is, DBpro and DarkSDK are powerred by the same technology, why does it cost so much more. My company is planning to license a commercial copy of it, as we are producing commercial game. After seeing the price structure, we were sorry so say that, but it is really ridiculous. It doesn't really convince us that it is worth that much. Well, at least if TGC set a different pricing for those that own DBpro, I think it will make much more sense.

You can't use speed in this context of argument, as DarkSDK does not do anything to boost the speed. In business sense, there isn't any R&D cost involve to develop a technology that give that speed boost. More direct speaking, the speed boost comes in free from TGC development point of view. The speed is not from the engine, but from the C++ compiler. (Unless, you are saying that DarkSDK uses a different engine than DBpro.) That's why I am not agree that DarkSDK is faster than DBpro, but I prefer to say that DBpro is slower than DarkSDK, due to DBpro compiler.

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
IanM
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 23:20
If there are any of my plug-ins that you need to be converted to .lib files, just let me know and I'll look at converting/releasing them.

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins and source code http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
Bulleyes
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 23:27 Edited at: 1st Dec 2004 23:28
Thanks Ian for you good intention, I appreciate your help. But I couldn't ask the author of every TPC that I used to port their TPC DLL, can I? This is gonna delay my development schedule, and I am sure it is definitely not a bright idea to do so. I guess, for now, I would prefer to sacrifice the "speed" of DarkSDK, to minimize our development risk, until someone can enlightened me, and convince me that the price is fair.

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Dec 2004 23:33
Quote: "After seeing the price structure, we were sorry so say that, but it is really ridiculous. It doesn't really convince us that it is worth that much."


Then don't buy it? No-one is forcing this upon you. If you were previously happy creating a project within DBPro, then carry on doing so. We have no plans to stop DBPro development, both products will live next to each other quite happily for a long time to come.

Quote: "That's why I am not agree that DarkSDK is faster than DBpro, but I prefer to say that DBpro is slower than DarkSDK, due to DBpro compiler."


Fair enough, but honestly it doesn't matter which way around you wish to say it, the end result is the same.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 01:59
I don't see commercial businesses using dbpro, I see them using c++, and if they use dark sdk, they have the best of both worlds, c++ and dbp That's why it's more expensive, because it's for *commercial* ventures.. It's not for the average hobbyest basic progger

Different group of people, different price range..

Remember pricing is two fold.. how much do the creators think it's worth.. and how much are the people willing to pay for it

Common business sense... do you think maya's worth thousands of dollars? The movie industry thinks so

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Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 02:05 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 02:06
Quote: "That's why it's more expensive, because it's for *commercial* ventures.. It's not for the average hobbyest basic progger"

uuhh...the FreeWare is not for commericial ventures...

i can understand the ShareWare and Commericial licenses costing big buckos...

and i can almost understand FreeWare costing $60 for non DBPro owners...but it just seems like us DBPro owners should get a larger discount then $6...

but not to fear..i'll end up buying it anyway



"We make the worst games in the universe."

Mussi
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 03:24 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 03:26
So Ian joined the Dark side I see , now I have to go about making my own interface library, which I don't have time for

Don't think it's worth the 54 bucks, for people who already own DBP that is, but what the heck.



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Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 03:30
Quote: "Don't think it's worth the 54 bucks, for people who already own DBP that is, but what the heck.
"

well before 2005...it'd be $48...which ain't too bad

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Proteus
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 04:05
I do think that the removal of IanM's interface from the screne was a cheap shot

Quote: " No-one is forcing this upon you"


Lol ... you people are begining to sound like microsoft...


@Mussi:
Quote: "now I have to go about making my own interface library"


I'll code mine too, but I think it'll only be finished by the time U6.0 is released ( 2025 +- 5 )

Anyway, isn't TGC a little worried about that?

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Freddix
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 04:54 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 04:56
@Bulleyes : I really agree with you !!!
@Proteus : I agree ... I have the feeling that the more TGC grow, The more they do like big companies ... doing things that forget small companies development....
It's like the guy that honk a driving school car ... forgetting that oneday ... he was in a driving school car ...
Rich always by-pass discuss giving the same arguments ...

@Jerico2day :
Quote: "
because it's for *commercial* ventures
"

That's why on the EULA there are only Freeware and Shareware proposals ... not ? ... and they don't want to reveal agreements for commercial ... why ? they wait to see if many people ask them ???

gdogg2k
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 05:40
Quote: "we are producing commercial game. After seeing the price structure, we were sorry so say that, but it is really ridiculous "


Sure DGSdk is cheaper than getting a license for most other game engines i.e. torque engine or Renderware, so i think the prices is alot cheaper???

Regards
Da Dogg
Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 06:21
Quote: "Sure DGSdk is cheaper than getting a license for most other game engines i.e. torque engine or Renderware, so i think the prices is alot cheaper???
"

yeah...but it's alot more expensive then DBPro...which it practicaly is!

"We make the worst games in the universe."

bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 06:36
Quote: "yeah...but it's alot more expensive then DBPro...which it practicaly is!"


so why are you complaining about a few bucks

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David T
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 06:54
Quote: "so why are you complaining about a few bucks"


DBPro is license free, yet the same price gives you DarkSDK freeware version, I suppose is what could be annoying him.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
ZioNz
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 08:04
I think the Dark SDK is ok, if you don't like , think like it never existed.

-
Mr Underhill
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 08:21
I'm okay with TGC selling DGSDK to those who want to use db code in c++ applications, but what gets my goat is the fact that there's no "plugin" version.

I want to keep using DBP for the main engine, but having to manage 50+ include files can be annoying at best. I just want to make a few plugins for functions (and maybe a scripting engine) that could be in DBP already but aren't, and maybe share them with people who also need them. I don't think I should have to (in essence) buy DBP over again or go through the trouble of making my own SDK to do that.

Just my 2 cents.

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I mean.... not.. that i.... new that already.... i figured... maybe... CRUD! IM A NERD! -Ion Stream"

I feel your pain, man. Wait...pain?!
JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 08:27
it's VERY over priced. i was thinking that it would be about $20 for DBP users and freeware. and about 100 for Shareware. I was so excited for this releace, now i am very disappointed, as many are, and any hope for me using DBP or anything to do with it, is very dim, as after using languages such as C#, going back to basic is just slowing me more than advancing.

Bulleyes
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 10:51 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 10:58
The main point of my argument is, the commercial license of DarkSDK should cost only as much as DBpro, and obviously, the shareware and freeware version should cost lesser. The unfairness is even more apparent when you compare the DarkSDK Freeware license and DBpro. Both are only difference by a small amount in terms of price, with DBpro, you can sell your game, with DarkSDK, you can only "donate" your game.

This is not an argument between DarkSDK is better over DBpro, but it is more on an open debate of the fairness of the pricing structure set by TGC for DarkSDK. Of course, TGC has the rights to set whatever price that they like. I can see that TGC is growing, but I felt that it is complete unjustifiable if they set an unfair pricing for the sake of growth.

The only way that I feel it is the ETHICAL way to do it if TGC want to increase the price is, add more value to the SDK, i.e. enhance the engine itself, provide more features which is not do-able in DBpro, differentiate DarkSDK from DBpro (but not speed, as I mentioned above, or any benefits that you gain from the C++ language feature), etc. Either that, or the TGC should give some special pricing and licensing term to existing DBpro owner.

You can't compare the price of DarkSDK with other game engine like Torque or GameStudio to justify its price. This is not an argument about pricing competitiveness between other products. It is more like an argument of whether it is justifable for TGC to set the price structure for DarkSDK like what you have seen now, based on the fact that it uses DBpro technology.

Let our argument being heard, let's keep debating. If there is a polling system in this forum, I would be very interested to see the poll of the people who thinks that DarkSDK is overpriced.

p/s: Simillar to Darwin, I was so excited for this release before, but now I am very disappointed! I might start developing my own interface library as well, will see is anyone who is willing to join the good side of the force.

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
ZioNz
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 11:13
I think there should be another SDK , something like IanM's iterface library, free for DBP owners, the difference would be that you make a dll for dbpro and the game is generated using the dbp compiler (althougt it is compiled in the dll by the c++ compiler ,i think) and with the DarkSDK you can program directly in c++, the cost of the DarkSDK is not that high if you plan to sell your games tought.

-
Bulleyes
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 11:20
Quote: "the cost of the DarkSDK is not that high if you plan to sell your games though."


I can also sell my game done using DBpro by more than half of the cost. What are the plausible reasons that DarkSDK cost more? Don't tell me it's the speed again. Seems like speed is the only marketing ads that is used here, which I am afraid, I can't recognize this as a valid feature for marketing. It's unfair for DBpro owners.

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
Antdizzle
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 11:21
How is it unfair? You don't have to buy it.
Bulleyes
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 11:31
Well, for the present, I am not thinking of buying it.

But I wanna hear opinions from others. Maybe I am too extreme, or maybe I am too stereotype. That's why I wanna share it here, and I wanna open my ear for others.

Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
ZioNz
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 11:45
I think for people that just want it to improve speed and stability, it is not fair (no c++ knowledge is needed at all, only the command names change and a little syntax) but for people that can take advantage of OOP and know how to program c++ , it may be a fair price.

-
Erick G
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 12:18
I have purchased it, and I could not be happier. Seriously, if you think it is overpriced, then just use db pro, is it so wrong of TGC to appeal to the C++ crowd ? Surely more power justifies a price increase ?

Bulleyes, your game rocks, why the sudden need to knock this SDK ? Do you NEED it ? If you think it is over priced, then just carry on like you have been all along. Why try twist the arms of TGC to make it cheaper, just so that you can be happy ?

Yes, it is a lot of money, but the rewards just got a whole lot bigger, I played around with the SDK last night, and simply put, it is amazing at the new level of power.

What Richard says is true, how many indy programmers go commercial ? You need money to make money, the shareware or commercial licenses will be a small price to pay.

Bulleyes:
Hell, why not get the freeware SDK and ask for donations on your site ? I know that I would donate to you. Why ? Because I believe your game has the chance of making money, it has the potential to reach a huge base of people. Not many indy's can claim to have a game which has the potential to make money.

I am just playing the Devil's Advocate here, these are just my views, but I honestly believe that the price is right.
JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 13:30
i think that the commercial price should be where the the Shareware is, the Shareware at about $100 and the Freeware at about $20-$30

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 14:50 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 15:28
If you don't like the pricing then don't buy it. The amount of sales will change the price if they don't sell enough. Let the sales do the talking. I do however have a couple of questions that may help a little.

1. Is the freeware,shareware, and commercial versions all going to be the same but with different licenses?

2. If so, Will we get a price break if we buy the freeware version for learning the product and upgrade later? This way you can buy the freeware version and make a game. If you feel this game will sell, you can just upgrade your license.

Mnemonix
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 16:45
You guys are not here to tell TGC how much their products should cost. What you should be grateful for is they care about their users a lot. TGC have marketing people who obviously know better than most people who have replied to this thread, how much to charge and how to set up the licencing. So give them a break and spare them your two cents because your opinions are not backed up by enough knowledge here.

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 17:55
I agree with Mnem. Once the DarkSDK works with C# (which I'm crossing my fingers for), I will purchase the freeware version. If I make a game that's good enough to sell, I will upgrade after. To me, that seems like the perfect deal!

Sometimes pricing schemes don't have to make logical sense. It's really up to the developer to choose it. Take Counter-Strike, for example. I can purchase the original Counter-Strike for around $15-20 in town, but I can also purchase Half-Life for the same price, which includes Counter-Strike. Doesn't make logical sense, but it's the reality.

The ONLY thing I disagree with, is the fact that we're not allowed to make editors, apps, or other non-game programs with DarkSDK. But really, we can't complain. If we don't like it, just use DBPro, which is cheap and has a completely open license.


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Proteus
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 18:21
@Erick
Quote: "is it so wrong of TGC to appeal to the C++ crowd "


No, not at all, Using DBP's engine in C++ is wonderful , OO is great! , I agree...

Quote: "it is amazing at the new level of power."


Now tell me, what's so new and amazing about it that the interface lib didn't do???


All I see is people saying , it's great to use DBP with C... it is great... But I don't see nothing innovative about it...

Am I missing some great new feature here?

Love is like Pi - Natural, Irrational, and very important
Erick G
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 18:28
Yes you are, you can now use an industry standard compiler/debugger, Object Orientated programming, smaller exe size, faster code.

It is much easier to organise your code now too.

Quote: "All I see is people saying , it's great to use DBP with C... it is great... But I don't see nothing innovative about it...
"


If you dont, then you dont, then carry on using db pro, as it is also awsome
Proteus
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 21:48 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2004 22:09
Sorry, What I meant was, what´s so New about the SDK when compared to using DBP with IanM´s Interface ? I mean I´ve been using the VC´s debugger with it, worked wonderfully , I coded my whole game with it (and the almighty GAME function call in dbp )

I don´t see anything else besides the directly compiled EXE ...

And since they pulled the plug on the lib... I feel this IS an attempt to force us into buying the sdk...

[edited: wasn´t finished typing...]

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Erick G
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 22:02
well basically, if you like this, then go for , if you dont, then dont, I like the fact I can organize my files better, smaller exe's and greater "code" control.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 22:13
With the SDK all updates are automatic when DBPro is updated, whereas Ian had to keep modifying his interface system for any changes.

The other reason by the SDK is being pushed is because all used DLL's are embedded in the executable, meaning that none of them are extracted when the program runs. It stops people illegially copying them.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 22:50
Quote: "You guys are not here to tell TGC how much their products should cost. What you should be grateful for is they care about their users a lot."

What? If they cared then perhaps they would spend more time FIXING bugs in software that has already been bought by most of the people in this community.

Raven: That said, I DO say 'that said' a lot. 'Nuf said.
MiR
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2004 23:49
Personaly I think the Dark Game SDK is a great product. Though I´m a bit miffed about buying DBPro and not having the discount.
Anyway. Got to study.


A bargain at 900000€ second hand
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 01:01
To be perfectly frank, Dark Game SDK isn't aimed at the DarkBASIC Professional nitché.
Which I hate to break it to most of you, but you are part of that little group..

90% of people around here will never create anything with DarkBASIC Professional, let alone go on to retail it.

Currently you can purchase the Freeware License version of DGSDK for $54 / €40 / £29, if you look at the current prices that means your getting DarkBASIC Professional's Engine for around Half-Price.

While this will mean that people will have to change from DarkBASIC Professional to Visual C++ 6.0/2003 in order to utilise it, fact remains that if you had the know how to actually make use of this SDK you would already have the tools at your disposal.
I know that sounds a bit harsh, but most of the developers who are going to be going for thier will already be using those languages to develop thier Third Party Commands and alike.

The SDK frees these people to utilise a language they are comfortable with. While the difference in speed is VERY noticeable, and people are right, there should be something done to the DarkBASIC Professional Compiler.. I think you should look at this as a chance to push for that to happen rather than complaining about the price of upgrading to a pipeline your not yet ready to use.

Even with Dark Game SDK, learning C++ proficiently enough to actually make use of it will *still* be quite challenging.

As for the Commerical Product applications outside of games. I would recommend reserving your comments until you see the EULA for the Commerial License.. That license is likely to be quite alot higher priced, but at the same time give you more freedom over what you use the engine for.

While IanM's interface comming down is a blow to those trying to work on 3rd Party Tools for DarkBASIC Professional, until TGC change the EULA that comes with DarkBASIC Professional, there is nothing preventing you from creating your own interfaces.

Also while I am personally a little miffed about the fact that TPC Developers appear to be left in the lurch here at the moment, hopefully the DarkSDK (TPCSDK) will be extended to provide you with what you require.

As for 3rd Party DLLs with Dark Game SDK.. yeah not to be funny but what exactly is going to prevent you from using them?
You can use a Dependancy Walker to find out which DLLs are required and package them with your program, then simply call the DLL.
Or you can even create a library which allows C++ to determine the dependancies you'll need, and let it do all the work for you.

The way I see it TPC DLLs shouldn't be a problem, further more with Direct Access to DirectX along-side the DarkBASIC Engine.. it actually frees developers up not to rely on others code.

Newton for example, sure Walaber's DLL is cool.. but you can just as easily use the C++ version of the NewtonSDK. It's free, so there really is no excuse. You need the Advanced Terrain, quite honestly TGCs isn't exactly upto par with what is out there (no offense).

You can quite easily goto GameDev.Net and look up the Whitepaper on Geo-MipMapping. It explains in quite alot of detail how to create Terrain alot better than that in the Advanced Terrain.

For a C++ the Engine you use is just the tip of the iceberg, it isn't the be-all-and-end-all that a BASIC developer has; because you have no restrictions using other Libraries.
The language is more defined and you have more freedom to do as you please, not to mention there is far more resource available to you; often for free.

If you want to try and alternative in C++ then do so.. there are plenty of engines to choose from.
Ogre3D is free for Freeware. Torque 1.0 is free for Freeware.

That is the beauty of C++, there is alot of choice. No one is forcing you to use C++ or Dark Game SDK. If you want to get similar results in DBP though (personally is what I'd prefer), then I'd suggest you start making a petition about upgrading the compiler next rather than the engine!


MiR
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:54
Your mostly right Raven, but there is one use Dark Game SDK that the average DBer can do. Personaly I see Dark Game SDK as a perfect opituaty to learn c. It´s kind of a half way point from the easy but slow DBPro and the fast but HARD c and Directx.


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Freddix
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Joined: 19th Sep 2002
Location: France
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 03:20 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 03:21
Quote: "
What Richard says is true, how many indy programmers go commercial ? You need money to make money, the shareware or commercial licenses will be a small price to pay"

The price of a product must be calculated with the following args :
- the time spend to develop it.
- the amount of potential user to buy it.
( to calculate the value in times of the software )
It must not be calculated simply telling : other are This , I'll do that !

I am more annoyed with the system of licenses that on the price ...
if they simply remove the fact that we can't create game makers .... I will be happy and buy the commercial version ! They only have to tell " do not create programming language using DarkSDK " and all can be ok for me ...

the thing I also don't like is the fact that they don't tell the commercial conditions ! simply telling that few people will use it ! it's a fake argument to do what they want in the shadow !!!
IT'S POLITICALLY UNCORRECT !

Here are all my thinks ...

Don't forget something ... when you try to create your own company, it's really expensive ... if all software are over priced .. you will have no chances to create your company ... it's a politic for big companies and not for all ...

Jimmy
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 20th Aug 2003
Location: Back in the USA
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 04:07
Well, I gave in and bought the SDK, out of curosity. Plus I sold my copy of DBP for, what it's worth now, $10.

I hope it's not true, but I can see support for DBP fading away in the near future. The SDK is obviously a step up from DBP, as was DBP to DBC, so who needs that now vaporing garbage?

Long live pants!!


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 04:14
Any upgrades to the SDK can also be applied to DB Pro because they are both powered by the same source so any changes in one are good for the other. It can work out quite well.

Mike
the_winch
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:05 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 06:06
Quote: "Any upgrades to the SDK can also be applied to DB Pro because they are both powered by the same source so any changes in one are good for the other. It can work out quite well."


Yes but there are quite a few issues with the compiler, debugger and ide. The last few patches appear to have sorted out a lot of the problems with the stuff that is shared between the SDK and Dbpro.

I think people are just worried that development in areas where Dbpro and the SDK don't overlap is going to be even lower priority.
Why bother adding features to the dbpro compiler when everyone who needs those features can just use the SDK?

Quote: "this is not a quote"
OSX Using Happy Dude
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:17
Mainly because many are unable (or unwilling) to use C/C#/VB - and thus the compiler part will need to be updated.

Nothing can be done about the IDE unfortunately unless Mike/Lee re-start their internal one.

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
AlecM
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Concord, MA
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:21
Bulleyes:
It doesn't really matter how much they charge for the DarkSDK commercial license, publishers can pay for that sort of stuff.

Necronos
15
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Aug 2004
Location:
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 07:14
Just put a lot of money in PR and ads and you could sell the buggiest piece of software
Bulleyes
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Nov 2002
Location: Cyberjaya, Malaysia
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 10:45
Froggermon:
Sorry, you are wrong. Publisher will like to minimize their budget if possible. It's all about cost in business.

Freddix:
I can't agree with you more! Especially the last paragraph.

I will quote it here again,
Quote: "Don't forget something ... when you try to create your own company, it's really expensive ... if all software are over priced .. you will have no chances to create your company ... it's a politic for big companies and not for all ..."


Thomas Cheah (Technical Director)
Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.
http://www.badnose.com/
The Wendigo
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 11:59 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 11:59
Just some FYI, my project DOOP is somewhat similar to the Dark SDK. I've released it with full source, so for anyone out there who is just looking for C++ style syntax and/or an object oriented approach, DOOP is free and at my site. There are some major limmitations that DarkSDK can surpass, of course, since DOOP uses Dark Basic and not Dark SDK, but the source is available for anyone who feels they can get past the limmitations (I couldn't).


Home of DOOP, Strata Works, and Height
Great Knight
16
Years of Service
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Joined: 25th Feb 2003
Location:
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 15:41
You can always buy one licences then have the Dark SDK on one computer then write a dummie header file that has all the same commands of it, but each function is empty and use it for syntax purpose(Give each dummie header file to each programmer). Then when you need to compile something goto the computer and compile it on the licences machine that way you will need only one copy, but one machine with the licences version of it. Hey it may be a little more thinking of what your code is doing with out testing it all the time, but thats ok.

For the price it's ok. I am getting the freeware version of it. When I sell my game I will upgrade, but since I will now have the ablility to use refrences in my functions with the power of Dark Basic I do not have to worry about Global Varibles.( Global Varibles= Bad bad);

TO DENY MY WISDOM FOR ANGER
TO BREAK THE SCREAM OF THE SILENT FOOL
TO BE A KNIGHTRIDER OF DOOM... OF DOOM!
Erick G
Retired Moderator
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2004
Location: Texas, USA
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 16:32
Quote: "Just put a lot of money in PR and ads and you could sell the buggiest piece of software "


Now tell me, how buggy is the SDK, please tell me as I would love to know, give me a list of what you dont like with the Dark SDK. Oh wait, let me guess, you dont have it.

How about trying it out before you go slamming all and sundry ok ?

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