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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] What do game characters do after development is over?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Dec 2004 21:33
well aparently they appear to be moving onto music carrears, feating in special MTV2 videos.

i knew about the BloodRayne 2 one, and I thought it was the first but aparently not.

http://www.mtv.com/onair/dyn/video_mods/videos.jhtml

some bloody good videos there
the Leisure Suit Larry one though was just too cool..
reminded me of when i just got Uncut & Uncensored, got caught telling my brother 'no, get her drunk... then tell her to whip out her breasts' just as mom & step-dad came home heh


Jimmy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 04:44
You still live with your parents?


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 05:08
I thought he was working for Blizzard?

Or working on the top secret 256 processor?

Etc.


"And C++ has 2 version Microsoft visual C++ and Bordland C++."
Dgamer
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 05:31
Eh, i dont get why its become "cool" to hate raven. Alot of people hate him because others do. *Cough*Zero Blitzt*Cough*. Its getting stupid to see that Raven is flamed on every single thread he starts.

This sig has been dullified!
Neofish
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 05:40
Isn't Raven 15 or 16, meaning living with his parents normal....

:: Current Project - FLevels ::

:: WinXP Pro SP 1 : 2.8 GHz Celeron : 512 MB DIMM RAM : 64 MB Radeon IGP 345M : 40 GB HDD ::
HZence
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 06:11 Edited at: 14th Dec 2004 06:11
Yeah, I can name at least one other person who has yet to flame Raven in this thread but will no doubt be here soon enough...

Why is it cool to have Raven? He makes stupid mistakes. But, we all do...he's only human...cut him a break...


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Damokles
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 06:16
Quote: "Isn't Raven 15 or 16"

I always thought he was about my age. (I think I did read it somewhere)
I don't have anything against him. I think he brings an original touch to the forums.

- Mind the gap -
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 06:20
Quote: "Isn't Raven 15 or 16, meaning living with his parents normal...."


nice vote of confidence, but no i'm quite a bit older than that

Quote: "You still live with your parents?"


It's my house, despite my rents having a perfectly good home of thier own (250miles away in damn N.Wales that I spend a damn month helping to fixx up and decorate!).. they still insist on imposing on me here.


Jimmy
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 06:45
Yeah Zero just wants to be cool like me.

I, on the other hand, was actually curious.


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
Cian Rice
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 06:55
Plegh, I can't stand video mods, really all it is is video game character singing, I thought before I saw the first episode that it would take cutscenes and gameplay from games take the tone of the game and take a song that has the same kind of song and combine them but no, it's just video game characters on a stage singnig...

Have a heart and join my message board.
Ilya
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 07:25
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=boycott

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
Eric T
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 07:29 Edited at: 14th Dec 2004 07:31
@ the maddox link

La Frontera ain't that bad... now theres this one called Melinas, that sh*t makes me gag.

But he is right on about smiths... if you ever see one pop up in your town.. steer clear

@Video mods

A few of them are well done, but some are just dire awful.

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 14th Dec 2004 12:23
Thanks for the link some of them are really good.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 01:23
Yeah some of them are pretty bad, but then are some real music videos. I really thought the Leisure Suit Larry / Black Eye Peas one was pretty awesome though.

Cracked me up at the end where your seeing his silouette and the light shines to show him dancing in his underware, just cracked me up. And the bit where he's on a car trying to be the same height as one of the girls (Zena i think).
Plus the setting (a strip-club) was perfect for that typeof video cause they always seem to be in them.


Ian T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 01:58
Quote: " Eh, i dont get why its become "cool" to hate raven"


Because he's a pathological liar and has flamed just about everyone on these forums. If he can't stand getting flamed he needs to made amends; the ball's in his court for that.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 02:24
Quote: "Because he's a pathological liar and has flamed just about everyone on these forums. If he can't stand getting flamed he needs to made amends; the ball's in his court for that."


Two things wrong with that statement.
a/ I don't outright attack/flame people unless they have flamed me first.
b/ you believing that I am a liar has no real basis in fact, as it is a belief based on circumstancial evidence within an online insecure source... put bluntly it's an opinion numbnuts not a fact.


Ian T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 02:35 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 02:35
Off the top of my head...

-Deliverance 2004
-The Deliverance demo
-Zelda the Shadow Pyramid
-'New Commands' "Patch" (one of the most blatant lies)
-Gamecube 300mhz processor
-Radeon 8000 T&L
-Neophyte shader arguments
-nFinity console (the most blatant, ridiculous and amusing lie)
-nFinity 2 (IRC lie)
-Crystal development enviornment or whatever it's called
-Early Half-Life 2 test
-Job at Blizzard
-8ghz supercomputer

There's a hell of a lot more, that's just off the top of my head, it's not like I keep a file of these things. A few of them would have been simple mistakes if you hadn't refused to admit the truth even when the entire forum and rational world proved you wrong. Others bordered on scams, such as the nFinity thing, and you certainly disappointed a lot of the people you tricked into your little program. Most of it is just crap to boost your rep which you've never provided a shred of evidence for and often contradict yourself about.

Lies work... for a little quite. QED: Nixon... and you.

Keep a consistent and realistic story if you want people to believe you

Jimmy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 02:44
I believe it was a 12 Ghz computer.


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
empty
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 15th Dec 2004 02:57
Quote: "Keep a consistent and realistic story if you want people to believe you "

No! No, please don't.

Play Nice! Play Basic!
Version 1.02 available now!
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 02:58 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 03:01
The thing about Raven is that he believes his own lies. If he did all this stuff he says he does, why does he still hang about here if he thinks everyone just wants to flame him all the time. Poor guy

Quote: "-Gamecube 300mhz processor"

Don't you mean GBA?

CURRENT PROJECT: Chaos Hizzle Demo
cybernetic wraith
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 03:11 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 03:13
Quote: "Quote: "Keep a consistent and realistic story if you want people to believe you "
No! No, please don't. "


Yea it's fun to hear about them. Quite amusing during a long day at work.

By the way Raven... where's the link to this RavenStudio in your sig? I'm sure it would provide hours of entertainment!
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 03:22
He took it down since he realised it didn't exist

CURRENT PROJECT: Chaos Hizzle Demo
Cian Rice
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 03:40
Just stop! Sure Raven can be a pain sometimes, but we all are!
And plus Rave ncan be really helpful at times too, my friend was very pleased with the fact that Raven had made a DBC version of Phaelas'xs DBP code.

Have a heart and join my message board.And now my messageboards work again!Woot!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 03:55
- Deliverance 2004 .. it is still 2004 no?
- The Deliverance demo .. see above, but also, I do reserve the right as everyone does to hold off or just decide not to release anything. I'm not being paid to create work for people, so I feel no obligation to do so.
- Zelda the Shadow Pyramid .. Didn't feel like continuing work on this, I ended up interested in something else.
-'New Commands' "Patch" (one of the most blatant lies) .. How so? The patch was released, if you don't have it then that's your problem, I know a few people who after I took the patch down personally asked me for Update 5.23 (1.05 SP1)
As it doesn't work with anything other than 5.2, No point in releasing it to the general public again.
-Gamecube 300mhz processor .. o_0 I've never said that, I said the Gameboy Advanced did, and I wasn't lying. The original specs that Nintendo Official Magazine out out back in 2000 were that it had a StrongARM 32-bit 300MHz Processor. Mis-Informed perhaps, but I never felt the need to look it up on the official site, given what I had was from the Official Magazine.
-Radeon 8000 T&L .. WTF? I don't know what you on about with this one, to my knowlage there isn't a Radeon 8000, only 8500. If I recall does use Transform & Lighting Generation 1; unless your talking about the N-Patch Argument.
-Neophyte shader arguments .. I'd suggest you read them more carefully.
-nFinity console (the most blatant, ridiculous and amusing lie) .. upto you what to believe about that really. I would just suggest some searching of the NVIDIA site, under GoForce.
-nFinity 2 (IRC lie) .. There is no such thing. What Eric had (has?) up on his signature was a private conversation about something I was working on for MYSELF. I don't see how the hell I can lie about a project I was working on for myself. Not that it has anything to do with anyone else at all.
-Crystal development enviornment or whatever it's called .. Crystal Development Enviornment (IDE) has several test versions that a few people tried out (in IRC as I needed people to test things like the number lines and such). After DarkGirl disappeared I put a week of work into the IDE before she appeared again, which threw all of the work i'd done into disarray because she didn't understand any of the new code. Then she disappeared again.
I got fed up with having to change my pipeline each time she appeared, and I was sick to back teeth of using PureBasic; cause I truely hate that language. I've started a new one in Visual C#, don't plan on releasing it, and I don't plan on it being for DarkBASIC Professional.
-Early Half-Life 2 test .. Disprove it. When you can't, then either apologise or shut up about it.
-Job at Blizzard .. I never said where I was working. People are assuming it was Blizzard because of what I said in a thread about the WoW Beta (alpha) being stolen. I never said they were right, I never said they were wrong. For all anyone knows I could've been working with Blizzard as a Temp, or working with them as a subsiduary company. Either way this one is a pure assumption.
So apologise.
-8ghz supercomputer .. If I had purchased it in 1998, then yes a combined 12GHz machine would've been a SuperComputer.
I purchased it in 2002, when the fastest Personal Computer you could purchase was from IBM at a staggering Combined 60GHz.

The fastest computer on the general public market was a Pentium4 3GHz. The fastest overclocked computer was an AMD 2.7GHz overclocked to 3.5GHz, capable of PR6200+

Really, the speed is an non-issue. If the cost is an issue for people to comprehend, well I was working as a registered individual with not only a full-time job with Electronic Arts, but also I was doing Freelance Television Adverts on the side.

In order to not spend most of my time at home rendering when I could be working on a new contract, I bought myself a machine that could render most scenes I needed within a day rather than a week.

I had a healthy 6-figure income. Because I was working hard!
DarkBasic has and always will be, my hobby and stress relief.
This is what I do for fun, rather than go out each nite and get wasted or other such thing.

See something I find extremely insulting here is, feeling that I have to explain myself to a kid who probably is never going to understand the situation I am in. As it is doubtful you will ever earn as much, and it is equally as doubtful you'll be a workaholic, further more doubtful you'll feel the need to make sure each member of your family is having a more comfortable life because of you.

Hell, your a kid trying to code computer games. The only reason I can find for the majority of disbelief over something as stupidly simple as a computer of that nature is simply that you can't get it on-demand. A number of people here know full well they could never afford it, or thier parents would never purchase it.

But if you had it what the hell would you use it for? Playing Solitare?
The machine was bought and is used for a single purpose. Rendering CGI, on a Cinematic Scale; with no limitation on, which program is used to do it.

Something that is obviously clear to everyone to forget is that not everyone is in the same situation as you. This is a forum, with no way to see or identify people on the other end.

It's like to me, when I first moved to the states, being held up in a store. That was a bit of a shock.. but then to some people that is a fact of life. It is usual for them to see a gun being waved around in public.

I can't go to a new culture and expect everything to work identically to where I come from. A forum is even more so this fact.
It really does piss me off to see kids around here upgrading thier computers as they feel like by talking to thie parents.
Getting anything they choose, because as a kid, I never had that. You get what your given, if you don't like it, tough.

While it ticks me off, I can't go around calling people liars for the hardware they get; simply because I don't like them or the situation of it. You guys don't know how much I make, you don't know what I do, in-fact when it does come down to it... you know very little about me.

So who the hell are you people to judge what I can and can't afford. As this is what this is about, because the system above; is easily available... Now the Opterons are upto 3.5GHz and they're capable of being used in Oct (8 CPU) Systems with MP (MultiProcessor) Processors.

It is expensive, but not unfesible. So that is what this all comes down to. Just because people are here, doesn't mean they are poor.
I use DBP as a hobby, as do alot of others my age... Considering when I purchased DBP it cost the same as Visual C++, I wouldn't consider that, a cheap hobby.

What amuses me is that I upgrade Maya each year, currently I'm running 6.0.1 Unlimited. Yet no one has blinked an eye-lid over that. Why? Hell only a year ago I had bought SoftimageXSI, 3D Studio Max and update Maya... all within 3months.
No one once wondered how the hell I could do that?

I might be on chicken-feed pay now. I haven't always been


MikeyP
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 04:18
Heh, Sorry to here the 'dis-continuation' of Crystal Development Enviornment [At least for DBP anyway]. I was really intrested in that project, looked really good.
empty
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 04:19
I can't be bothered to comment all that... so just a few
Quote: "- Deliverance 2004 .. it is still 2004 no?"

So there'll be a release 2004?

Quote: "- The Deliverance demo .. see above, but also, I do reserve the right as everyone does to hold off or just decide not to release anything. I'm not being paid to create work for people, so I feel no obligation to do so."

Then probably you shouldn't announce your "products" on these boards

Quote: "- Zelda the Shadow Pyramid .. Didn't feel like continuing work on this, I ended up interested in something else."

That happens quite often to you, doesn't it?

Quote: "-'New Commands' "Patch" (one of the most blatant lies) .. How so? The patch was released, if you don't have it then that's your problem, I know a few people who after I took the patch down personally asked me for Update 5.23 (1.05 SP1)"

The point is that you claimed to have "edited" the DLLs on "ASM" level which was a lie.

Quote: "-nFinity console (the most blatant, ridiculous and amusing lie) .. upto you what to believe about that really. I would just suggest some searching of the NVIDIA site, under GoForce."

LOL. Goforce is based on the nFinity idea? Do you really think anyone will believe that? Really?


Quote: "-Job at Blizzard .. I never said where I was working. People are assuming it was Blizzard because of what I said in a thread about the WoW Beta (alpha) being stolen. I never said they were right, I never said they were wrong. For all anyone knows I could've been working with Blizzard as a Temp, or working with them as a subsiduary company. Either way this one is a pure assumption."

You claimed to have worked on C&C Generals at Westwood (before you were told by me and others that EA Pacific released it). Still no Raven appears in the credits of C&C Generals or of any commercial game for that matter.

Play Nice! Play Basic!
Version 1.02 available now!
Nack
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 04:48
Wow, never knew game character do that! cool lol got a good laugh out of the video lol, thx

Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 05:36 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 09:03
Quote: "*Cough*Zero Blitzt*Cough*"


Yes, because the only reason I flame raven is because it's "cool".


"And C++ has 2 version Microsoft visual C++ and Bordland C++."
Chris K
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 05:55 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 06:05
Ooh ooh ohh!

Here's an awesome Raven lie that a lot of people missed:

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=42031&b=8

I couldn't be bothered to confront him on it but it's 100% pure and utter crap.

EDIT ____________________________

Just for the record, what is "Angel of Darkness"
and Half-Life Zero.

Quote: " but also I was doing Freelance Television Adverts on the side."


What adverts did you do?
Dgamer
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:11
Quote: "Quote: "*Cough*Zero Blitzt*Cough*"

Yes, because the only reason I flame raven is because it's "cool".

Dumbass."


Pretty much, yes. I don't think you'll be flaming him if no one else did.

This sig has been dullified!
Eric T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:15 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 06:17
There seem to be alot who think its "The cool thing to do". Did I sleep for 8 or 9 years and humanity forgot the word "justification" in that time?

Quote: " Eric had (has?)"


Yep, its a had... i just liked the thought of a "nFinity 2"...

But yeah, i dun mind what a guy does with his freetime, be it wax the carrot, or make a console.

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
Chenak
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:24
Quote: "Just for the record, what is "Angel of Darkness"
and Half-Life Zero."


angel of darkness was the 6th tomb raider game.. it sucks beyond belief, worst TR game ever.. Half-life zero is probably half-life condition zero which came out with one of the special editions of half life. just another series of levels and a few new weapons.. the M4 was awesome

btw... where is the pad lock
Ian T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:26
Raven's, that's really a load of crap. Goforce based on nFinity? Oh please. I bet I'd give the nVidia staff a few good laughs if I mailed them the url of this thread. No obligation? How about the fact that you promised repeatedly to make a 2004 release, swore to even? Patch released? It's about you lying that you worked hard to code it when you simply altered the string tables. Blatant lie. And funny about you discontinuing Zelda: The Shadow Pyramid because I have an IRC log right here from #darkbasic where you swore it was released... just not on Apollo. I could go on but that really sums up my point-- if you can't lie consistently Raven, don't bother to lie at all.

Jimmy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:39 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 06:40
Raven the problem lies in the fact that you make these claims.
Now people expect proof.
You tell them you have screenshots of games or pictures of your supercomputer.
Then some magic happens, your hard drive dies, you get a virus, and you don't show anything.
Then you ignore everything until it dies and move on to another lie.

Make these claims all you want, but don't claim to have proof and never back it up.


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
Preston C
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:45 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 07:02
@Raven: You're a worse liar than my brother...and that's pretty hard to beat.

Cheers,
Preston

[Edit] Since we're lacking a certain Jimmy Apollo Life comic this time around, I had to make do, tis attached.

Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz | 512 MB Ram | NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 128MB
MSVC++ .Net | MSVC# 2005 | Wings3D | CharacterFX | Gimp v2.0
Prayne de crabug ahm rinedere be-yogt iglo kes gron

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Dot Merix
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:45
Comeon guys, stop attacking Raven. It's bs, and you guys are really showing some of the new board members what jerks you can be. I'm especially surprised a mod is doing it.. Mouse and others.

If at all, leave the others to argue with him, he posted a comment about video's and that's what this topic should be about, dont wait until he creates a new thread to come to it, and start arguing.. To me, that shows more immaturity then placing lies in the forum itself.

These are -personal- attacks to him, give it up.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Ian T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 06:55
None of my attacks have been personal, they've been addressing his posts and the lies they contain, not his personality. Raven has attempted to make it so with the 'workaholic' melodrama guilt trip, I ignored that. My posts certainly were some level of flames, and as far as I know that's allowed.

The people flaming Raven have been taking crap from him for one to four years-- it's a bit hard not to flame the jerk when the topic turns to it.

Since I'm directly involved in this I'd consider it an abusive of my power to lock it, but if another mod considers it out of hand I have no complaint with their closing the threat.

Jimmy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:01
He's a workaholic, yet he mops floors in a pancake shop for a living.


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
MikeS
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:17
Some users here need to grow up a bit. A legitamite topic gone to trash because some people are living in the past and can't move on...



--------------------------
Anyway... I'm glad you posted that link Raven. Been looking for that Little John & EastSide video mod forever (Too bad it was only a teaser, still good stuff though).



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:54
I think If we ever get a ignore user option for these forums we also need an option to keep certain users from posting in our threads. It would end alot of this.

Manticore Night
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:56 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 07:56
Quote: "Still no Raven appears in the credits of C&C Generals or of any commercial game for that matter."
You do know these are not our real names, don't you? Here's a secret, in real life, my name isn't Manticore!

But of course I am not siding with raven, only pointing something out. I think raven is a peice of cr@p from hell, am I cool now?

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Eric T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 07:57 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 07:57
Quote: " You do know these are not our real names, don't you? Here's a secret, in real life, my name isn't Manticore!"


I think out of common courtesy, he's not saying ravens name (which we most do know).

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. He looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't **** around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with.
Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 08:17 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 08:19
Yeah..its...Eric Manticore.

Quote: "Some users here need to grow up a bit."

Says he who puts a stupid smiley at the end of every post.

CURRENT PROJECT: Chaos Hizzle Demo
Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:02
Quote: "Pretty much, yes. I don't think you'll be flaming him if no one else did."


What you think and what I do are two different things, my friend! For you see, I don't jump off bridges just because everyone on my block is doing it. The only time I'd jump off a bridge is when life finally "pissed me off enough with lies and etc." that I needed to "escape".

Eh. Not the greatest example. But I hope you see what I'm saying. Sorry about the "dumb***" comment before. I'll edit that out.


"And C++ has 2 version Microsoft visual C++ and Bordland C++."
Jimmy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:11
If one more person uses that stupid "jump off a cliff" analogy... I'll peel the skin of my eyeballs off.


Remember, Jimmy still loves you.
Ilya
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:12
Yes, jumping off a cliff is diffrent from flaming Raven.

Quote: "I've seen the word programming and I'm not sure what it means. Anybody please explain?"


Quote: "We shouldn't sacrifice the truth to preserve "balance"."
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:17
Alright the posts above really going to prove quite a nice point here..

I Said, "I would just suggest some searching of the NVIDIA site, under GoForce."

This was interpreted to, "Goforce based on nFinity? Oh please. I bet I'd give the nVidia staff a few good laughs if I mailed them the url of this thread. No obligation?"

I Said, "Didn't feel like continuing work on this, I ended up interested in something else."

This was interpreted to, "funny about you discontinuing Zelda: The Shadow Pyramid because I have an IRC log right here from #darkbasic where you swore it was released... just not on Apollo."

What exactly does this prove?
That people are seeing what they want in what is being said.

I did not say the GoForce was the nFinity, just to check the site.
I did not say that I did not release Zelda:LOTSP, just that I lost interest.

People said about the unofficial update 5.21 (note above I said 5.23), that all I did was edit String Tables.
Well feel free to call me a liar about it. Cause legally speaking, if i accept the allegation then while I discredit work i 'may' have done, this would also mean i've done something illegal.

But then on the other hand:

Quote: "There is a very good reason most of these functions aren't exposed yet, when people start trying to use this they'll soon find out why - just don't come to us asking why "feature X" doesn't work."


The functions in my DLL with the exception of Lightmapping, worked how they were ment to, without crashing. So that has to be one bloody good string table I added!

Quote: "angel of darkness was the 6th tomb raider game.. it sucks beyond belief, worst TR game ever.. Half-life zero is probably half-life condition zero which came out with one of the special editions of half life. just another series of levels and a few new weapons.. the M4 was awesome"


Tomb Raider : The Angel of Darkness. It was the best TR game in the series, but the engine was buggy as hell. Even worse than some engines around here.

It's a cool guess, but no. Not what my signature was (is) refering to. I choose not to answer questions about things now, saves me being mis-interpreted by those who dislike me again.

Half-Life Zero, again good guess with CSCZ. Not quite right. Half-Life Zero, started as a Modification for Half-Life.. in a similar strain to Resident Evil Zero (hense the title), that told the story of the day before Half-Life. It then evolved into a DBP Project, the idea was pretty cool and fun to work with; then came up the legalities question. So rather than being shut-down with it, decided to take it another route.. releasing a game that had the characters from Half-Life Zero, or one of them proving some background story for what was going on. Yet proving an entirely new story, something that while hinting towards what happened in HLZ, not specifically tieing it into the HL-Series.

As such Deliverance was created. Using the Resident Engine, named after Resident Evil as that is what gave me the idea in the first place.

Things have evolved and grown up, moving due to new ideas and new engine designed. I must've recoded the engine from scratch a dozen times in the last year; but it has been in development alot longer than just Late-April like alot of people would believe.

Deliverance still uses it, but a Visual C# w/DirectX9.0c version. A demo is still planned, but not for the DBP community as why would I release Deliverance into this community using another language?

This said, I still want to make the Resident Engine worthwhile in DBP. I've hit alot of snags and bumps along the development of it.. Each time I fixx one bug, or work around it. A new patch was released that would fixx something else but then make a new bug to work around. When dealing with a complete engine, that is thousands of lines of code through hundreds of included files.

This hits pretty hard, especially when you have a number of 3rd Party DLLs that also stop working the way they should as they also contain code from certain DBP parts that have been fixxed as it is easier to integrate certain features that way.

This past month I decided that Resident need something. Even if it is something very simplistic or such, just to prove to myself that this technology is viable. Not just for my system, but on a wider scale.

The problem with alot of engines, is the fact that everything has to work neatly. If one part is bugged and unchecked, this can compound without realising it. Particularly on an Engine of this scale.

The physics is integrated into the animation and materials, the materials are integrated into the shaders and textures. Every single aspect of the engine relies on another, in order to bring out a far greater potencial.

Worlds are not simply loaded and forgotten about; the mesh are loaded into the level, then each section is loaded as needed. The smaller sections allow better culling then materialing happens in order to cut down the shader demand.

The goal from day one has been to have something that looked, like it could stand toe-to-toe with Half-Life 2 or Doom 3. Not just in graphics, but dynamics and size. A project that could show that if you wanted to create a truely professional looking game, you can!
A big part of this isn't just making the engine, but creating the artwork to back it up.

You can't take the characters, worlds and textures from Tomb Raider 1, throw them in a new engine and immediately get stunning results.
Adversely is that DarkBASIC Professionl while it does alot, doesn't do everything in terms of rendering, timing, etc..

While over E3, the Engine was being rapidly developed *specifically* to do a single job; i found each thing i added and worked on would cause a new set of problems if i began to make the engine too specific. There was atleast 4-5x more work in making it for a specific task than generalising. I went through 84 builds in one weekend, just to try and come up with something that wasn't buggy. In the end I decided it was best not to release something, if it wasn't going to cooperate.

Game Saves were wrong, Tokamak when the game slugged would allow things that would normally collide to miss each other.. so you'd have a dog in the mid-jump through a door unkillable but still able to harm you. You has instances where shaders would cause DBP to run out of memory and everything would go white and slow to 2fps; without DSystemMem, it is a pain in the ass trying to figure out what you have left and without Flush Video Ram (which at the time I thought worked) there was no way to get rid of things quickly.

In my opinion, these are bugs would've given anyone who tried it a field day taking apart the engine.
I mean to people like, Mouse, Jimmy and Empty.. not to mention the RGT members who'd seemed to join in. The game would've been a minefield for them to say 'well this doesn't work' or 'this happen then'. The build-up of the engine was far too much for me to realse something that was literally a week-old beta of an engine that itself was still an alpha.

As far as I'm conserned TR:AOD is a perfect example. As this respresents what the Resident Engine is like, while sure it is playable to a point... It was untested on Radeon Hardware, and it has some random bugs that one time you'd run and everything would be fine, the next and everything screws up.

While from most peoples pov, having something is better than nothing; as far as I'm conserned this only applies in a life/death situation. If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing properly.
If something is ready to be demonstrated, it is because it is worth trying, not because it is better than nothing at all.

Unfortunately, I did stop working on the engine for a while; during the time that damn IDE was in development. Really wish I hadn't now, this said.. new things such as Walabers Netwon 1.3, have breathed new life into the engine.

I really do hope to be able to provide something with it.
Currently a complete re-write (Engine 14) is underway, now if I use it or another forum member does.. doesn't matter to me.
What does matter is that this does get used.

Actually a problem has come up that perhaps a few of the more, experienced members could help resolve.

I'm trying to think of a way for someone to compile 'additional' code. Basically so I can create an engine SDK that allows them to edit the engine and compile the results so that the engine can use them.

Much like Half-Life's Client.DLL, I have an idea of how to do it, by taking the 2 _virtual.dat and appending the code, as it would work like a 'missing peice' with all the data and such for that are. What if baffling me is how-to intercept the DBP start sequence so to append the data, and also where to append it.

I've not been able to successfully achieve this yet. I've had partial results though.


Benjamin
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Location: France
Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:40 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 09:40
Well, I won't flame you anymore for now, I just wanna say one thing. Your a nutcase.

CURRENT PROJECT: Chaos Hizzle Demo
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 15th Dec 2004 09:54
I also don't agree with Raven-bashing. It's nonsense, because nobody can say whether who or what he claims to be is true or not.

Saying that Raven didn't work on C&C Generals because his name isn't on the credits is HORSEDOODOO. I know for a fact that if you don't work on a game for AT LEAST 2 months at EA, they won't credit you. I should know because I worked on NFS Underground for under that amount, and I am nowhere to be found. So before you accuse somebody of being a liar, you should really get all the facts straight.

Another thing--- I told you all that I worked at EA around when I joined this forum last year. The game I was working on wasn't even released yet so nobody could have checked for my name. Why is it that nobody cried foul about that?

Also, spouting off Raven's past projects as blatant lies just because they weren't released, or were canned, it simply immature. Are you trying to tell me that you have all released every project you've ever announced in the WIP forum?

Don't get me wrong--- I don't know Raven. But from what I can see by the way he helps people on these forums is he obviously knows what he's talking about. If you think anyone's a liar on this forum you should keep it to yourself.

Have a coffee and chill:


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Ian T
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Posted: 15th Dec 2004 10:30 Edited at: 15th Dec 2004 10:31
Quote: "Another thing--- I told you all that I worked at EA around when I joined this forum last year. The game I was working on wasn't even released yet so nobody could have checked for my name. Why is it that nobody cried foul about that?"


I don't go looking into the facts behind every allegation to being a professional programmer or freelancer. It's when someone already has a reputation for lying that people do that (I wasn't the one to check anyways).

Quote: "Also, spouting off Raven's past projects as blatant lies just because they weren't released, or were canned, it simply immature. Are you trying to tell me that you have all released every project you've ever announced in the WIP forum?"


If they were simply unreleased, it wouldn't be a big deal. Until Deliverance I never mention Zelda TSP or the multitude of other dumped projects he'd worked on. I've personally announced one and refered to others I've never released, and I know other people have too.

But there are two big differences here.

The first and most important is that Raven doesn't just announce them; he pimps the damn things. He puts links to them in his signiture, mentions them in half the threads he makes, and with Deliverance specifically he said that come hell or high water he'd make the winter 2004 date and further backed this up by attacking every naysayer and skeptic.

This in an of itself is annoying enough seeing how many projects of his have come and gone, but it's augmented by another factor-- he doesn't even release screenshots. No demo, no video, no screens, no site-- without any of those that amount of advertizing really isn't warranted, and when he makes threads and constantly talks about his game and promises to make the release date, I think people are quite justified in expecting something, and being angry when he completely fails to deliver. Not only that, but doesn't even apologise for it, which decent people generally do even when they make a release date they've barely mentioned on the forums.


The thing is I do know Raven, I've been watching him post since, I think, '99. And I don't think it's just my business thinking he's a liar because I honestly think other people should know what an unreliable person he is. After looping people into the nFinity deal and letting them down, getting people hyped up about Deliverance and letting them down, and with a record of lying (note the provable lies in my list up there, I'm not talking about the ones that remain vague, even the absolutely ridiculous ones) to back up his stories, to be honest I think I'd be doing the forum a disfavor not to warn people that he has not lived up a single one of his multitude of release dates; nor even made a late release for any of them.

Now this certainly doesn't include this thread. Here I was answering a question about why people disliked him. Better newbies hear both sides of the story than just believe there are Raven-haters and Raven-likers. In other threads, I haven't had any good reason.

Personally, I recommend checking out his record yourself. Do forum searches for nFinity (DBP forum), Deliverance (GD forum), the arguments with Neophyte (DBP forum) or any of the other things. If you're willing to invest enough time into reading, I'm sure you'll understand. If you're (understandably) not, just stick around for a while and his true colors will show.

That's my two cents. I certainly grant that a good deal of the posts I make regarding him are unwarranted as far as that I could have just stayed out and let it lie. I'll try to improve that in the future. But I do not think the above information should be left in the dark-- it's my opinion, but I'm confident it's one you will at least understand better if you read up on his history.

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