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FPSC Classic Product Chat / A map size question

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Chimera
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Posted: 18th Dec 2004 16:05
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Not everyone wants to make a 'building' map, and then I mean if I want to make a map with only 2 groundlevels (ground and first floor). Then won't I have a small map? Cos you only have 40 tiles with another 40 tiles above it right? Instead of 40x (how many lvls you want your 'builing' to have). If you only make a ground lvl will you have much space loss then? Or can you customize the tiles to (40x40 tiles)= 1600 tiles on ground floor?

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Noah
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Posted: 18th Dec 2004 20:45
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Quote: "40 tiles with another 40 tiles above it"


It's 10 tiles upwards (40x40x10).

Quote: "If you only make a ground lvl will you have much space loss then?"


I don't really understand that, but: that's just in one level. If that's level one, then in level 2 you probably have a "refreshed" map. I'm not really sure though. You might just have that 40x40x10 space to map the whole game's setting, but I doubt it.

By the way, is there any way someone could tell everyone how "big" one tile is?
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IanM
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Posted: 19th Dec 2004 04:29
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The actual size of each game level is 40x40 with 20 floor levels. Each 'cell' within the world is 100x100x100 in DX units.

I don't know how many game levels are possible at this point.

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Rob K
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Posted: 20th Dec 2004 00:28
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Just to clarify 40x40x20 is the size limit for each level. As far as I know there is no limit to how many levels you can have in a game.

In real terms, each cell (100x100x100 units in size) is slightly taller than the player and any AI characters, and wide enough to contain two or three large tables.


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Noah
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Posted: 20th Dec 2004 03:32
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Quote: "In real terms, each cell (100x100x100 units in size) is slightly taller than the player and any AI characters, and wide enough to contain two or three large tables."


Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.

Quote: "100x100x100 in DX units."


What's a DX unit?
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Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 20th Dec 2004 23:49
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Sorry to be thick headed, but does that mean each "TILE" is 100x100x100 "CELLS"

or is each "tile" effectively a "cell" (seems too small)

Thanks!
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Coldnews
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 01:51
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the size of the maps does seem rather small at the moment. But i suppose if you can make it like half life and have when you move into one part of the level it adds more tiles and takes the previous parts away therefore having a seemingly bigger level and more flowing gameplay...

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Noah
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 03:05
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That's a good idea Coldnews.

I said this already, but:
Anyone know what a DX unit is?
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 03:48
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The DirectX representation of a 3D unit size.

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SoulMan
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 02:17 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 02:25
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Honestly,
I don't think 40x40x20 is limiting. A building might only take up 6x6x2(or 3) so you could in theory have 6 buildings on the map at once. 40x40x20=32,000 tiles that you can have. With each tile being 100x100 dx that would be 10,000dx units per cube. Times that by 1600 for the number of tiles you get and you have 16,000,000 dx units to use each floor. Times that by the number of floors and you get 320,000,000dx units to use per map. I think that would be enough.
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Noah
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 03:42
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Quote: "<insert Soulman's last post here>"


I agree with Soulman definitely. 40x40x20 isn't very small. Why does everyone think it is? It's good enough anyways, especially if you use the technique that Coldnews described.

By the way, is it possible to do what Coldnews described?
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Rob K
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 04:13
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Quote: "the size of the maps does seem rather small at the moment. But i suppose if you can make it like half life and have when you move into one part of the level it adds more tiles and takes the previous parts away therefore having a seemingly bigger level and more flowing gameplay..."


Half Life doesn't actually do that, it is just designed with the start of the next level looking like the end of the last one. The designers just copy the last room from the first level and make it the start of the next one. You can do this in FPS Creator. The only limitation is that users cannot go back to the previous level.

The size is actually perfectly adequate. It would take a very long time for a map larger than 40x40x20 to be built in any case. Remember that in "real-world" terms, a 1x1x1 unit room would be about the size of a department store changing room.


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Noah
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 21:57
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Quote: "the size of the maps does seem rather small at the moment. But i suppose if you can make it like half life and have when you move into one part of the level it adds more tiles and takes the previous parts away therefore having a seemingly bigger level and more flowing gameplay...
"

and

Quote: "Half Life doesn't actually do that, it is just designed with the start of the next level looking like the end of the last one. The designers just copy the last room from the first level and make it the start of the next one."


I think they use the first method in Halo/Halo2. Or something like it. It doesn't really "get rid" of the tiles, it just "unloads" them from its memory. When you go backwards, it loads them again. And when you keep going forward, it keeps "unloading" what's behind you.
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Rob K
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 00:03
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Incidentally, if you want to see this for yourself, turn on the noclip cheat in Half Life or Half Life 2 and wander around after you start a new level.


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Noah
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 00:14
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What's that do? The thing I described that it does in Halo?
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SoulMan
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 02:16
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Rob,
Wouldn't you be able to set a link just to go back to the previous map? I think that should be possible.
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Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 02:26
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Quote: "Honestly,
I don't think 40x40x20 is limiting. A building might only take up 6x6x2(or 3) so you could in theory have 6 buildings on the map at once. 40x40x20=32,000 tiles that you can have. With each tile being 100x100 dx that would be 10,000dx units per cube. Times that by 1600 for the number of tiles you get and you have 16,000,000 dx units to use each floor. Times that by the number of floors and you get 320,000,000dx units to use per map. I think that would be enough.
SoulMan"


See that makes more sense to me. That seems more than sufficient for a level. My confusion was that a level would only be a cube of 100 DX units (100x100x100) which I felt would be wayyy too limiting.

If each TILE is 100x100 DX units and you have 40x40x20 TILES then yes that should be sufficient space for a good level. Plus as we have been discussing you will be able to map a large game area over several FPSC "levels"

System Shock 2 did this a lot by taking a level and subdividing with airlock style chambers where one door closed before the other opened. It wasn't the greatest thing in the world, but it worked fine as a game mechanic.
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Anime civil
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 06:45
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Can I ask a question? What is 40x40x10? I don't think it can be pixels, because if it were pixels the level would be pretty damn small, hehe. So, what units is it in?

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David T
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 07:35
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It's in tiles. YOu can have 40 by 40 tiles in each floor, and 10 floors.

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Noah
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 08:18
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I have another question which is kind of strange:
If you can have 20 stories upwards, could you have any stories downwards? I mean, if I decide to make a chamber that you fall into that is 4 stories deep, would I have to place the whole thing 4 stories high and make a hole in the ground there for the chamber?
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SoulMan
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 11:06
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Good question Kyle. I think you would unless you can set what height the base starts at. God I can't wait.
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Anime civil
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 11:19
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10 floors?! I dom't know what the hell people are complainign about. I don't think there's ever been a 10 floor game EVER, not even in the big gaming industry

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SoulMan
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Posted: 4th Jan 2005 13:33
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Actually, that's 20 floors.
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David T
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 06:49
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I think you start on the middle floor. So yes, up and down.

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SoulMan
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 09:10
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David,
Wouldn't it be possible to set what floor the base starts at? Say you wanted to use all 20 floors for a building? Wouldn't that be possible? I guess though since you can set the spawn point anywhere in the level it won't matter too much.
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David T
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 14:57
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Yes, the spawn point can be anywhere.

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Rob K
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Posted: 5th Jan 2005 22:04
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Quote: " Rob,
Wouldn't you be able to set a link just to go back to the previous map? I think that should be possible.
SoulMan"


You *could* create a copy of an earlier map and set it as the next level, so it would look like you were going back through an area that had previously been explored, but the progression from level to level in the game is, as I understand it, completely linear.


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David T
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Yes, you set a level start and end poinn and that's it. When you reach the end, you go to the next level. I don't think there's a way to specify which level is loaded next.

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Coldnews
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Posted: 6th Jan 2005 07:49
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I was trying to describe the half life thingy but I didnt manage to describe it very well! Its similar to the system shock 2 technique, and a very clever/easy way to make the level seem larger than it is. It would be quite annoying if the loading times where long though.
Take them to a small room. Have the level end on one block and then recreate that small room in the second level and have them progress onwards. just dont create the rest of the first level around it. Or just give them a few rooms from the first level but change one of the doors to locked so that they cant go ALL the way back to the start of the first level. It would give the gamer a sense of freedom, but you dont actually have to give it to them.
I think that this post is probably as coherent as the last.
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Noah
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Posted: 7th Jan 2005 06:41
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How long would it take to load a map in general? I'm not really expecting a super-short loading time, but I'd be horrified at a longer one. So I got curious on what it would be. Anyone have any idea?
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David T
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Posted: 7th Jan 2005 07:16
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When you click the 'test level' button my pc it takes a while to prepare everything. I think though when you compile that's all done so the loading time for the end user isn't too long.

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MaddA ChieF
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yay... not long enough to get up and go to the bathroom!
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Noah
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good.
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