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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / I'm Just Amazed...

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howie
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 10:42
I found DBPro a few days back and I have been tinkering with the demo version. I just have to say, this is incredible. My hats off to the developers.

I make my living as a game programmer and write C++ code all day. I know what it takes to write 3D games in C++ handling DirectX yourself and I'm just beside myself on how well they have wrapped up all the complexities in to an easy to use basic language. I will be purchasing the full version because I'm having so much fun with it. It's just amazing how they have simplified the overly complex.

If your a good programmer, the hardest part to making your game will be the game design and original 3D objects and artwork.

If your new to computer programming, you may want to put the idea of writing games off to the side for just a little while and try to focus on learning programming basics like the variables, decision statements and loops. It's a world of difference when you have grasped these concepts fully. It's dry learning material, but once you have a firm grasp of the basic concepts and building blocks of a programming language, there's nothing stopping you from there.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 13:21
I agree, its great

I thoroughly recommend you buy the full version and patch it, you'll find it much better But yes they've done a great job, it saves me so much time!

mimesis
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 14:06
Hey Howie, welcome to the db community!
Would u mind answering a couple of questions.

* How do you actually sell your games ?
* How long time does it take to develop a game in c++,
lets say something advanced like FPS and something
simple as tetris/pacman.
* How much do u usually charge for a game written in c++?
howie
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 19:07
Thanks for the impute guys.

To answer your questions Bassi:

<< How do you actually sell your games ? >>

I write games for WMS gaming. They are casino games. I don't sell them myself personally, the company does.

<< How long time does it take to develop a game in c++ >>

These games fall more in the lines of a 2D game but it takes about half a year to write one. The main reason for using C++ is because it's imbedded systems on a proprietary CPU board. People who work in the industry can take anywhere from 1 to 2 years to develop a single title like a FPS.

<< How much do u usually charge for a game written in c++? >>

I don't sell the games I write for WMS but I also write screen savers on the side. I write these in C++ and sell them for $10.00 each. If you want to try any of my screen savers, you can download them from www.howiesfunware.com

If you want to sell your games, a $10.00 price tag is your best bet. Anything less then $10.00, people don't find it worth the time to purchase and anything over $10.00 fall into the "How Badly Do You Want It" category. People are more willing to give up $10.00 then any other amount.

With DarkBASIC, they have put together a real impressive package to allow for quick game development. If you desire a career in game programming, you will have to learn C and C++ because it's the industry standard. All languages are the same, so if you understand DarkBASIC, learning C++ will be a snap. I always suggest your first language to learn to be basic and learning DarkBASIC makes learning to program tons more fun. What DarkBASIC has done is bottle up a lot of the current technology and provide a simple interface to make use of it. You can't develop new technology with DarkBASIC, you can only use what they make available with in the language. That's not a bad thing. It frees your mind to be creative. The big game companies require the development of new technology which can only be done in a low level compiled language like C or C++. Most games are written in C.
The Game
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 20:33
Good to see another person form the casino side...I work for ShuffleMaster in Florida...although only a tech, not quite high paid as you...LOL..DBPro is definitely an awsome tool..and when the bugs are squashed it will even be better

I am the game and I want to play.
howie
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 21:13
I have not heard of ShuffleMaster. Sounds like you guys make card games. My first game at WMS was a poker game.

As far as bugs are concerned, it's highly expected considering what they have made available to us. This tool is very new in the scheme of things and I'm sure many transitions are still yet to come. Forcing the very complex into a simple form is no easy task. The new editor is a good step in the right direction. I'm sure it will level out over time but it's a great piece of work as it stands and it can only get better from here on out.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 21:46
Hey there howie ... DBpro is certinaly a powerful little tool, and will just get more and more powerful over the next year as DBS are rewriting the 3D Engine and Pipelines, the new system boast to be faster and more stable.

Hopefully it'll be updated along with a new and slightly more indepth Help & SDK
And as far as the bugs are conserned 1.03.1 Pro is possibly about as stable as 1.08 Standard ever was, just a few of the "shortcut" functions that are still pretty bad.
BSP being one, however there are alternative to those who REALLY don't want to write thier own map format - suchas one of the oldest DB Teams Underware Design's VisWorlds

I use it mostly because of certain ties and the fact that both DarkBasics are quite powerful engines which allow me to simply addon, but even with the built-in functions - you can still write your own for the same effect.
Which is simply why i prefer it over Blitz, because although it appears to be better - it stops at a much higher level than either DarkBasics

be interesting to see what you come up with thou.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
howie
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 22:24
I'll have to look into "Blitz" for comparison sake. Just to satisfy my curiosity. What's their web site? All I'm finding is scientific tools for use with GNU.

I don't have any game ideas at the moment, but I'm thinking about it.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 18th Jan 2003 23:10
http://www.blitzbasic.com for Blitz Basic and Blitz3d. They are 2 games programming languages programmed by a single guy, and they are pretty good! For many reasons Blitz3d could be considered superior to Dark Basic 1 without the Dark Matter expansion - But Blitz does not really seem to have a stable future, and Dark Basic Pro is capable of far more impressive and flexible results. For an interesting, if heated debate on the subject, read the "[Flamebait] Holding off on buying DB Pro" thread on this very forum

You're right about the bugs, but DBP is being updated and patched all the time, and as Vegeta Pointed out most remaining bugs are far from critical. Once the new Pipeline comes in I'll be more than happy

Rob K
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 00:52
I have the P4 Beta and I have to say that the speed increase for scenes with lots of objects is impressive. Object creation / loading speed is much faster too.

It is nice to see someone who takes a more relaxed attitude about DBP's faults. Given the complexity of a 3D engine, (I saw the source code for a Quake II - level engine and it was MASSIVELY complicated - DBS have to do that AND turn it into a fully fledged compiler and programming language as well) - they have done pretty well.

Its always nice to have a few C/C++ programers around, welcome to DBP, howie

I must say though, that the demo seems to be more buggy than the real thing.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
The Game
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 01:06
Howie...Shuffle Master is a maker of various products actually. We are mainly known for our automatic shuffle machines and table game products like Let It Ride and Three Card Poker our most popular products in casinos. We do have slot machine products as well. Anyways...I can't wait for that 3D pipeline update...more speed

I remember looking at Blitz a while back when I was originally trying to figure out which product I should get...this was when DBPro was getting ready to go public but not quite out yet....I downloaded and tested Blitz and DarkBasic Classic and was originally leaning towards Blitz but I decided to wait and see on DBPro..I'm glad I did...but it's all a matter of personal taste and belief in the product you choose

I am the game and I want to play.
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 01:54
"Darth Shader"
Thank for the warm welcome. As far as being relaxed about DBPro's faults, I completely understand. I have written my own software rendering 3D engine I use it in my screen savers. A 3D engine is just part of the equation because you also need to write tool to work with the engine. This is no small feet. Anyone who is upset over the current bugs may not be knowledgeable about what's under the hood and what's involved in 3D. The DBPro people just need to spend a little more time testing the product before releasing it.

"The Game"
Now I know what Shuffle Master is. I've seen it at the Vegas show. Very cool.

The 3D pipeline sounds like a great addition to DBPro. I've been studying it in my DirectX books. This will help speed up maps with a high polygon count. You probably won't see much difference on a game with a low polygon count. I believe this is dependent on if the video card supports it and I'm not sure what video cards support it right now. It's good to see they are pushing on and adding new technology. I'll be happy if they just keep adding more features to allow for more flexibility on the user side of DBPro.
mimesis
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 02:39
Howie, I've d/l and tested some of you're ScreenSavers.
Pretty impressive, good artwork too

The 3D engine seems to run in software mode, any of your screensavers that use Hardware accelerated 3D?

Howie:
"If you desire a career in game programming, you will have to learn C and C++ because it's the industry standard."

As long as the product you are delivering works and does
what it tells ,I think it doesn't matter which language
you use. I dont think that the majority of people who buys
software really cares much about how the program was
developed. Is there really an "unwritten" law that dictates
the use of C or C++ for commercial software developement?
Rob K
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 03:43
"You probably won't see much difference on a game with a low polygon count. I believe this is dependent on if the video card supports it and I'm not sure what video cards support it right now."

Hmm... I think you are a little confused. Your first statement is true, the speed boost only affects scenes with lots of objects / polys in. In fact you should really think of it not as a speed boost, but as DBP being able to cope with more load. The 3D pipeline is a software / engine thing - nothing to do with the hardware. It is how DBP stacks up information to feed to the renderer (DirectX). Previously it used to keep opening and closing it whenever it loaded a new object or a different type of 3D element (matrix / terrain etc.) - Now it does it in a more... streamlined way.

To expand on the speed differences:

DBP Patch 3.1

10 Textured Objects: 200FPS
1000 Textured Objects: 0 - 5 FPS

DBP Patch 4 Beta

10 Textured Objects: 200FPS
1000 Textured Objects: 30FPS

"Is there really an "unwritten" law that dictates
the use of C or C++ for commercial software developement?"

Speed and programmers. Most games developers are experienced programmers who work with C because it is what they have done before. C also produces the smallest and fastest programs of any high-level language, which means that C/C++ apps are needed if the game is to be run on a wide-range of differently specced PCs.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 04:03
Developers use C for games because of its versatility and robustness as a language. Not to mention the fact that it has been an engish (ASCII) standard language for almot 20years now.

Developers use C++ because of the ease of using Object Orientated Language however not one that strays greatly from the path of C ... as it was more of an evolution.

The fact that the major graphical, sound and network APIs now are developed primarily for C|C++ means that they are as good as what you'd call an industry standard.

On the whole as newer version of the language use itself to develop the next generation, however there is nothing in the rules that says they're the ONLY language you must use. It is just right now they have the most versatility, speed and overall support.

Maybe in a few years time DBpro or the next generation of DarkBasic might become a fully fledged language.

However remember Assembly is also used ALOT in games development as it is quite a bit quicker than any other language and about as close to low level programming as you'll get unless you can program within Binary

the new 3D pipeline is definatly needed, or atleast to find out where the bottleneck is. Is also to boast better BSP support ... personally i'll be happier if they gave up the BSP stuff in support for some pipeline functions allow us to actually add within the pipeline - would make Lightmapping BSP style worlds alot easier

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 04:07
Bassi,

<< I've d/l and tested some of you're ScreenSavers.
Pretty impressive, good artwork too >>

Thanks, glad you like it.

<< As long as the product you are delivering works and does
what it tells ,I think it doesn't matter which language
you use. >>

This is true if this is your own company. You can make your games any way you want. The end user will not care as long as it is a good game. You are corrrect. But if you want a job at any of the big game companies, you have to play by their rules.

<< 3D engine seems to run in software mode >>

Screen savers need to run without any outside help. Gamers are generaly good about keeping their hardware and drivers up to date. Most other people have no clue. I decided to do software rendering so that I wouldn't have to be tech support for everyone's old video card (the non-gamers of the world). Most people don't understand the difference between a file and a folder and asking them to update their video drivers is not a reality. Software rendering may not look the greatest, but it gives me the flexibility I need. It looks better in higher resolutions.

Darth Shader,
If 3D pipeline is a software only thing, then why would it be faster then my software? One software vs. another shouldn't make much difference. Software vs hardware makes more of a difference. I'll have to crack the DirectX book open again and take a look. It's been a while and I could be wrong.

Kangaroo2,
Thanks for the link. I checked out blitz. Looks interesting. DBPro seems to have much more of a following.
Arrow
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 06:55
Jeeze Howie, looks like your the coolest thing round here since 8 bit sprites. Glad to see that our language of choice meets the mark of profectional game programers. It's nice to hear about the good side once in a while rather than how bad the BSP is. Glad to have you here.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 08:04
8 bit graphics... lol
I fell off my chair.

BTW, thanks, I'm glad to be here. It's good to see so many people passionate about making the next great game. More power to you all.

The hardest thing I've found working with DBPro is coming up with a good game idea. I've been writing simple little goofy things to get a feel for the commands. I seem to have trouble when there's too many choices. Should it be a FPS, RPG or a 3rd person adventure. Or perhaps do some wacky 2D game. I just don't know, I'm so confused.

One of my buddies who I used to work with is now working for EA Games. He's in the RPG, 3rd person adventure game development division. I should steal some ideas from him. He also worked on the Knock Out Kings game.
indi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 08:22
Its about time someone said something positive and sensible.
The fact that u seem to come from the Industry and think DBP is good is an interesting algomeration.
welcome

howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 09:16
Thanks buddy.

I spend too much of my day bit twiddling and many times I have to fire up the good old Turbo Assembler. I deal with a high degree complexities on a day to day basis. Seeing how they have simplified 2D and 3D game creation is a breath of fresh air to me. Since I have been experimenting with DBPro, I feel like a kid let loose in a toy store again. There is something to be said about quick gratification. Dealing with the nitty gritty can be tiresome.

It's easy to program, fast and flexible. I'm happy.

I've always wanted to make my own game on the side but I didn't want to spend 6 months to a year just developing the game engine and related tools. Then you still have to craft the models and textures. A lot of work and time can be saved using DBPro. Also, just because I can develop my own game engine doesn't guarantee I can make a better game with it. Chances are after that I would be burnt out. Freeing you mind from the nitty gritty has more to do with a great game then anything else. You tend to be more creative when you spend less of your time being technical. This I have learned this from personal experience.

If you say "you can" or if you say "you can't", your right.
indi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 09:51
hehe i wear both hats, technical and artistic,

the art one fits a bit better.

Arrow
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 12:23
lol, That's because it's not as constricting, it's more like visor. It lets you hair blow free. I think I've met my day sysmbolism amount. The hardest thing about being a philosopher is that it's not a choice, you're always thinking. I'll reach Zen at this rate. Ack, I drift off topic too much.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Arrow
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 12:25
I'll never reach Zen at this rate. Alas, I think faster than I type.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
indi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 12:40
aglomeration might be better spelling.

What titles have u worked on that we might know of mate?

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 13:50
No problem Blitz does have a strong following, they just seem misguided by the promise of a new version, which seems a very long way away. For the meantime they are stuck with an out-dated language But Blitz2d is great for retro 2d games, as is DIV http://www.div-arena.com

DarkBasic Pro is much better than C for any1 wanting to become and indepaendant games publisher, because of the ease and speed of development. But its true that anyone looking to joinan already established dev house will need a background in C or C++

Rob K
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 17:33
" One software vs. another shouldn't make much difference. "

It does, with very little on screen, there is no difference, but with a lot on screen it depends on how the application handles all the objects and so on, and how it stacks them up to feed to the renderer. Go to the RGT boards (www.realgametools.net/forums) and go to the DBP Discussion Board. In the Patch 4 update thread GuyS (the developer of the editor) explains the changes more clearly.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 18:08
"Kangaroo2"

<< they just seem misguided by the promise of a new version >>

My question is then, are there serious bugs that need to be fixed? Every program has some bugs. Is the current version stable and usable? I'm still just playing with it but it seems to be stable from what I've seen. How often they put out a new version may not be the real issue if the current version covers all bases. If the product is mature, quickly putting out additional version may not be all that necessary.

In playing with Blitz3D, I have also found it to be impressive. The goal here is fast game development so it makes no different which tool you use. In this current economy, what might kill off one Vs the other is the lack of sales for their product.

The benefit to you the game creator, is that both languages are in basic. If one goes belly up Vs the other, it would be a little work but conceivable to jump to the other tool and move your code if your in the middle of a project. Both products are very affordable.

Here's a question for anyone listening. What modeling tool do you use to create your worlds and characters?

If you say "you can" or if you say "you can't", your right.
indi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 18:14
try milkshape first howie

http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

its $20 and has a tonne of file formats.

supports animation for DBC and DBP.

Has a few tools for uv wrapping but its best to check simples site for the last free copy of lithium unwrapper.
this is the skinning component

mimesis
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 18:47
For the worlds u can use:
3dsmax,Valve Hammer,Quark,Radiant or Tread3D to name
a few.
mimesis
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 18:49
Howie, if u dont already know, u can also write plugins
with c,c++ and delphi ,to add new commands to dbpro
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 19:25
"My question is then, are there serious bugs that need to be fixed?" NOOOoooo not at all, Blitz3d is very very stable

The reason I mentioned a new version is because Blitz is not really capable of producing games of the proffessional standard released by BIG games companies now. Many Lighting and shading effects are not present, as well as many other advanced features. There is a new version on the horizon, BlitzMAX but that project appears dead, or at least a long way off This is a shame, as I like both the Blitz and Dark Basic languages

The games you can make with Blitz in its current form are comparable with the games you can make with DB1. It probably can't ever get a higher standard than the N64 or Playstation ever did. Don't get me wrong, for many of us that's fine - But the advanced features of DBPro make it capable of producing results much more capable of standing up next to more recent console and PC games - IF you are a skilled enough programmer, 3d modeller and texture artist.

As for 3d modelling software, I agree with Indi, Milkshape is a brilliant peice of kit, and AMAZING value at the price. I have seen some seriously impressive results using it

Quark is a good level editor for BSPs but first you need a copy of a compatible game engine, like the full version of Quake 1,2,3 or Halflife. Some people seem to have BSP import problems with DBPro as well. The most stable (if not the best ) way seems to be to use Cartography shop ($40) with DBP.

Personally, I think its better to write your own level producing engine based on the game you want to make

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 19:49
BTW Howie I just went to your site. Nice design, clean, clear, I like it The screen savers look cool, I especially like the Fireworks and Santa one Your site is very hones (which I like) and your art work is also very competant Well done!

Rob K
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 20:30
Blitz3D is certainly very stable and is capable of doing pretty good games - but does have a few problems:

1) Poor DLL support

Writing your own custom DLLs to use with Blitz is not as easy as with DBP, and a little unreliable (many people have found it very difficult)

2) Some confusing limitations

For example, there is no OBJECT EXISTS command in Blitz, you have to check the pointer to that object and see if it is null or not

3) No support for shaders or advanced lighting effects

BB3D is better at the moment, but I believe that DBP has a better future and a stronger community.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Moggie100
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 21:39
I'd just like to say...


Welcome to the madness, howie.
The madness that is Dark Basic Pro.


have fun

Life is like a hot bath, the longer you're in it, the more wrinkles you get.
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 21:42
Thanks for all the help guys. I'm looking into those programs right now. Milk Shape looks cool.

"Indi"
Thanks for the Milk Shop link. I've downloaded and have been playing with the program. I like it.

"Bassi"
It looks easy to add in your own commands to DBPro. There are a few I have been thinking of.

"Kangaroo2"
Thanks, glad you like my web site. I like to keep thinks simple and clean. I have been thinking of using DBPro for making a screen saver. I would have to write a screen saver front end that would basicly start the program when Windows trys to run the active screen saver. I could whip that part out in a day because most of that is already written. Or perhaps add some new commands to help that along.

"Darth Shader"
Thanks for the Bliz infor. I see what you mean. The demos that come with the program are very impressive but I see what you mean by the lacking of the advanced lighting effects.

If you say "you can" or if you say "you can't", your right.
howie
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Posted: 19th Jan 2003 21:53
Hi "Moggie100"

<< Welcome to the madness, howie. >>

Looks like I have caught the DBPro fever

If you say "you can" or if you say "you can't", your right.
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 00:40
"Looks like I have caught the DBPro fever"

People are always welcome here as long as they don't ask "how do I make a game like GTA with guns and stuff - also, what do you have to type in the big green space when you start the editor?"

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 01:09
Screen savers are easy to write with dbp, plus it'll save straight as screen saver file so you don't even need to write an external file to load it

lol @ Darth. like "Ok I get the tutorials an everything, but how do I make an actual game???? Something like FFX????"

mimesis
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 01:47
hmmm, dbpro saves directly to screen saver format? how?
mimesis
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 01:55
Cant find any screensavre export functionality in pro,
however u can always rename the exe to scr.
Only thing not working is the preview of the dbp saver
howie
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Posted: 20th Jan 2003 03:16
You don't want to take any exe file and rename it a scr file because each time to try to go in and change your screen saver, the preview will execute it the DBPro file. Not too much fun. What I'm thinking of is a screen saver that in the settings you can specify the exe file to run when it is time for a screen saver to start. This would also handle the preview and have nothing display or be triggered.

If you say "you can" or if you say "you can't", your right.
Shadow Robert
22
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 20th Jan 2003 04:12
Oki don't get me wrong here Blitz is a powerful language, however that said - it is a face value language.
DarkBasic in its original Standard form was pretty unimpressive, i mean was still a cool program - but the data access and features were lacking.
But when Memblocks were introduced along with the more reliable data access which has been progressed into Professional ... well quite simply the update gave DarkBasic immense power that most users even now still haven't been able to relise exactly what is capable.

On the face of the products, for newbies - Blitz vs DarkBasic really ... its a one sided argument - because all they're looking for is power and commands that make the entire game for them.
But unfortunatly Blitz stops at the face value level, and when you go in deeper with more skill there isn't alot more that can be produced with it.
Whereas with DarkBasic when you gain the skills for the lower levels you see there is a whole new world of programming to explore.

That for me is probably the most important aspect i've found when looking at programming languages.
That once you've learnt the commands it has, howto manipulate them to do what you want rather than exactly what they're designed to do.

For example alot of people use memblocks to store simple data, but i've seen people using them for creating secondry UV map layer for models and then combining the textures for use, i've seen them used for creating patch matrix which run faster than DB's and you can access them anyway you choose, i've seen the DLLs being used in conjuntion with the Render Pipeline of DirectX to produce Anti-Aliasing and even simple Shaders!

See in DirectX Rendering can be software driven, meaning you calculate the arthmatic within the program for rendering which only uses a percentage of the CPU shared with everything else at the time. Whereas Hardware Renderers use the graphics cards floating point processor exclusively for this, designed specifically for doing this.

Now the pipeline is VERY important to this and is done on two levels sometimes ... the program Pipeline and the hardware Pipeline - and basically what this does is explain to the graphics card and line up what its to render.

Which is why pipelines and Zbuffers are always interactable because they work together closely...
A good pipeline finds out what needs to be rendered and how before needing the Graphics Chip or Processor to do this, and Hardware pipelines are the little cache chips with just double check for more complex scenes.

The end result is less polygons are actually render'd unnessarily allowing your hardware to think about more important things
because each Nth Mbit of Object data requires a seperate calculation cycle, with only 4 per cycle on the most upto date GPU's this means if you have 10,000 objects regardless of the polygons it'll start to die a little with a poor pipeline to sort this all out

hopefully that clears alot up

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
ICERGB
22
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Joined: 8th Nov 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 20th Jan 2003 15:36
It will be great "when and if" they ever get some help files as in and how them memblocks commands can be used.

This seems to be one of those treasured items, that nobody wants to share.
Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 20th Jan 2003 19:36
well we've all learnt howto use the memblocks from the exact same help - and i've tried to explain them to many many people many many times ... but for some reason what exactly they are and howto use them, still baffles alot of people.

Effectively a memblock is an file, which you can access in REAL-TIME ... i mean you can access files in real-time, but when you can access and edit a memblock's data with a 6-10ns latency and also access multiple positions at a time - along with the BackBuffer which stores the final render data (VERY USEFUL when you know what your doing) ... you can achieve all sorts of things.

the memblocks on thier own are unimpressive, its the fact that they're kinda the most versitile tool within DarkBasic Enhanced and Professional - meaning you can achieve more than the program can have standardly ... but only if you have an understanding of what you want to achieve.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Megaman X
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 20th Jan 2003 20:51
I like DB and DBpro over BlitzBasic... but I still prefer the collision system adopted by BlitzBasic... So if I have a very complicated game in mind with hills, montains, water and everything I stick with Blitz... if it's a simple linear game with DB. Hopefully they will change the collision in the future more Blitz like . I hope so at least....

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

Gif edited by Kangaroo2
Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 00:01
Personally i don't like either collision system ...
Blitz's take all the fun out of programming it, and DarkBasic's is just too slow to be of any real use forcing actual collision development with anything other than boxes.

Not that i'm complaining much because i use the same collision system whether i use Blitz, DB or C++
something i've based on something Dext show'd me a long time ago - combined with a loop timer makes it perfect for quick collision even on high polygon surfaces cause it never actually collides.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 15:48
"DarkBasic's is just too slow to be of any real use forcing actual collision development with anything other than boxes."

DBPs collision system seems to work fine & reasonably fast - Blitzes collision system is not flexible enough.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 18:38
its not really a case of it not working ... its a case that its slow.

when you test on a slow system as a standard you notice the speed problems.
as any games i develop, i develop for everyone - not just those who can afford the top notch technology.
for this reason speed is always top of my priorty to find out, even milliseconds of speed lost on certain operations can adversly affect such things as Networking ping.

as i've said i'm not a fan of eithers built in collision, oftenly have to make my own - suits me fine now as it is better control over such things

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 20:45
Given the fact that a lot of DBP's effects require a GF3 or better graphics card, which will be reasonably commonplace by the time that I finish a project - I assume the min. spec to be 1 Ghz, GF2MX going up to a recommended spec of 1.5 Ghz, GF3.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Megaman X
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Joined: 21st Oct 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 21st Jan 2003 21:33
1,5 GHZ? That's too much for a hobbiest game, seriously... Top games as Night Fire, UT2k3 or Nooone lives Forever ask for that... if u show the same quality as them is one thing, if u don't then it's quite another.
Raven I'm kinda curious about ur collision system

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

Gif edited by Kangaroo2

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