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FPSC Classic Product Chat / X file problem

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 21:14
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Hi,
i have created a model but seem to be having a problem, i have followed the manual on creating entities i can put my entity into my level. when the shroud is over my model its just a white dot if i right click to edit it is displayed as a white round ball in the preview window.
If i test the level i cannot see it at all, what am i doing wrong (whats the max file size for the .x model) mines 3.4MB i dont think i am exporting correctly lots of options with the x format (i am exporting from max using the panda x file exporter)
any ideas

ta
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 23:30
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Ok i can now see my model in the editor but when i test level FPSC crashes when it gets to my x file.
What are the requirements for a direct3d model???
anyone
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 00:38
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3.4 MEG! What did you create? The solar system?

Mine usually run around 15k. Export from Max as a ASCII file. Make sure when you modify the FPS screipts, you have the correct paths.

-This...is my boomstick!
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PocoRev
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 11:42
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i was just chatting with a buddy who said he converted a 3ds model of his to 'x' format and ended up bringing a walloping 20+ megs of madness into the FPSC Editor.

so... 15k is sounding mighty good right about now

@ Cellbloc Studios - knowing nothing about modelling proggies, i'm forced to ask you this rather dumb question. are the X and ASCII formats not completely different from each other? and/or does the FPSC accept the ASCII format?

i'm trying to figure out what modelling program i need to buy in order to complete my development path to FPSC, so any info you can send my way will be very much appreciated.

btw.. i downloaded gamespace lite, and it wouldn't even load the character x files

also, got a free complete version of truespace 4.3 in this month's 3d world magazine thinking that it would do the job, but it wouldn't load the file either.

help!

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xero
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 14:44
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I also had problems opening the .x files with gamespace but the export works, you just have to select the ASCII tickbox, as I understand it you can export .x in either ASCII format which is just plain text ( you can open and edit it with notepad) or you can export it in binary format.
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game Spacer
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 15:42
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Fragmotion can open the .x files,but when it saves them the file size is large around 12MB.

http://www.fragmosoft.com/
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 20:07
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I've messed with some of the export settings in max and now my x file is only 3MB, but it still crashes FPSC on level test. i have loaded the mesh into mesh viewer and clicked on validate mesh mesh viewer reports no problems.
All i can think of now is there must be a cap on the size of x file you can use. is this correct?

ta
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PocoRev
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 21:51
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@ xero and game Spacer

thanks for your reponses guys... i'm still thinking that there 'should' be a single-proggie-solution to this ( at least i HOPE so )

@ xero - do you have the full version of gamespace? reason i ask, is that i noticed that they've released the 1.6 update which is 'supposed' to have enhanced 'x' file capabilities. just wondering if this new version will actually open our files for us.

@ game Spacer thanks for the link.. checking it now.

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game Spacer
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 22:18 Edited at: 24th Feb 2005 22:37
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@PocoRev
I have gameSpace 1.6 full version and it does not open FPSC
directx files sadly,maybe TGC and Caligari should come together
on this.

GS1.6 does open the files in the "items" folder but does not open
any of the entities.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 22:51 Edited at: 24th Feb 2005 23:11
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@PocoRev:

DirectX files....

There are 3 types of DirectX files (more or less). You can save the DirectX as

1) DirectX ASCII (text based) Largest
2) DirectX Binary (binary) Medium
3) DirectX Compressed (compressed binary) Smallest

With DirectX ASCII, you can actually open the DirextX file in notepad and edit it.

Now, as you move down the list (from largest in filesize to smallest in filesize) more and more programs that use the DirectX files start showing issues.

Example:

99% of Programs that can read DirectX files are fine with DirectX ASCII
50% Programs that can read DirectX files are fine with DirectX Binary
10% Programs that can read DirectX files are fine with DirectX Compressed

All this had to do is because DirectX is not really a "standard", and they keep adding properties to their DirectX format. Therefore, when a modeler program reads in a DirectX file using, lets say DirectX 8.1, they are looking for certain properties. In the text file, they parse (search) through the file looking for like "TextureMap" or something. In a binary, it is all based on positions. Well, if the format changes, then the positions are off. This becomes more of an issue when it's compressed. So now you can see why some programs can read DirectX files and some cannot.

I have only tried DirectX ASCII with FPSC so I don't know about the others. Also, beware using "Free" plugins because sometimes they put extra "stuff" in the DirectX file (like 30 frames of Animation when all you built was a box) which of course will increase the size of the file.

I personally use 3D Max and a product called Deep Exploration for all my modeling needs. You can convert anything to anything. I absolutly love the program.

Hope this helps you understand.

-This...is my boomstick!
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 00:03
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Off Topic but why is it taking so long for my posts to show up on this forum??????
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PocoRev
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 00:44
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@ Cellbloc Studios thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to explain this to me... completely clears things up!

i wonder what program the default character models were created with... i was able to import the colonal into fragmotion tool(mentioned above by game Spacer) and then successfully write back to 'x' (texture and animations intact).

however, the file size went from aprox 1.4 megs to 13 megs. which, on the heels of your explanation, makes perfect sense.

my 'preference' would be to use the same program that created the original character models (if at all possible). i'm afraid that max and deep exploration are a bit out of my snack bracket

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 01:12
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@PocoRev:

Glad I was able to help.

I'll let you in on what I have discovered.

I took one of the Characaters "AI_1HWEAP.X" and I opened it in notepad. It starts off:
xof 0303bzip0032

So I right clicked and opened it with "MeshView" (comes with DirectX 9.0c). Don't double click, but right click and open, otherwise you will get an error.

Now I saved it 3 times. Each time I saved it, I changed the type of save (ASCII, Binary, Compress Binary)

The first test (ASCII size of 4.788 meg) I got:
xof 0303txt 0032

The second test (Binary size of 3.634 meg) I got:
xof 0303bin 0032

The third test (Binary Compressed size of 1.064 meg) I got:
00010101010

For giggles, I zipped the first test as a zip file and got the size to 724k.

Now, after looking over what FPSC has, it is my belief that they are using some sort of zip compression (could be the built in Microsoft compress). I will have to thumb thru the DirectX file format to see what it means by "zip" in the header. When I do, I will let you know. Therefore you can export your files as ASCII and I would either write a program that compresses them or find a program that compresses them in that way.

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GameKing
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 01:27
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Hi,

Here is what the bzip is and all others:

Type Required Size (in bytes) Value Description
Magic Number x 4 "xof "
Version Number x 2 "03" Major version 3
"03" Minor version 3
Format Type x 4 "txt " Text File
"bin " Binary file
"tzip" MSZip compressed text file
"bzip" MSZip compressed binary file
Float Size x "0064" 64-bit floats
x "0032" 32-bit floats

Enjoy

Abit IC7-G Max II, P4 2.5 gig, 1 gig DDR Ram, 80 gig Maxtor HD, NVidia FX-5700 128 DDR, Sound Blaster Live! Digital.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 01:47 Edited at: 25th Feb 2005 01:54
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@Gameking:

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/geomformats/directx/

Ha! So I was right! It is the MSZip compressed binary! Hummm... let me think....

-This...is my boomstick!
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game Spacer
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 02:52 Edited at: 25th Feb 2005 02:53
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This site could be interesting to you http://sources.redhat.com/bzip2/
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PocoRev
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 05:45
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@ GameKing and Cellbloc Studios

an interesting thread has just become fascinating! greatly appreciated guys

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GameKing
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 12:54
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Thank you,

I do have the DirectX 9.0c SDK installed on my system so if anyone needs any info please let me know.

Enjoy

Abit IC7-G Max II, P4 2.5 gig, 1 gig DDR Ram, 80 gig Maxtor HD, NVidia FX-5700 128 DDR, Sound Blaster Live! Digital.
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xero
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 13:35
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@PocoRev , I got got Gamespace to open some of the models, but you have to un-tick the box in the Direct X Settings window that says Import Material, btw i have GS 1.6, dont know if it will work in the lite version though. And I was not able to open any of the character models.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 01:08
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Hi all, dont flame me for this, i just want a bit of advice

I can get most of my models to work in FPSC. now the only problem i am having is with texture files FPSC allows one TGA or DDS file but my models may have two or three! i have noticed with the alien model that somebody uploded that the images were all in one file! how can i stitch all my images together in one file.
This is probably basic stuff but i have only been using 3dmax for a week.
as an example ive uploaded a pc terminal i have a screen image and a keyboard image

GraPhiX

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xero
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 02:19
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@GraPhiX I have managed to get a model with multiple texture images to load here is how.

In the .fpe after the ";visualinfo", I added a line texture path, the "textured" line I just specified the one texture
Example:
;visualinfo
texturepath = entitybank\MyEntity\
textured = skin7.tga

And then in the .x file the first part where it specifies the texture in "TextureFilename {}" just remove the rest of the path like so:

xof 0302txt 0064

Header {
1;
0;
1;
}
Material NoName_1Material_0_0 {
0.301961; 0.301961; 0.262745; 1.000000;;
11.000000;
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
0.030196; 0.030196; 0.026275;;
TextureFilename {
"texture1.tga";
}
}
Material NoName_1Material_0_1 {
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 1.000000;;
11.000000;
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;;
TextureFilename {
"skin7.tga";
}
}

I also copied the textures and the .x file and the .fpe into the same directory.

hope this helps
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 03:57 Edited at: 27th Feb 2005 02:00
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@GraPhiX:

You have to learn to texture map. It is quite involved. With FPSC you can only have 1 file for a texture map in your FPS script BUT you can have the one single map 3-4 times for different resolutions. I believe what you are asking is like if you had a PC Terminal and 1 Texture Map assigned, and then another Texture Map assigned to the keyboard. Without going into a huge discussion on how to do this, I suggest you break the entites up. Have a PC Terminal with 1 texture map as an Entity and then a Keyboard with 1 texture map as an Entity. It would somewhat work out better because you can pick up the keyboard and shoot it at the PC Terminal.

As stated above, you can modify your DirectX ASCII file to have multiple texture maps, BUT you have the size cost. I am currently writing a program that will allow you to save as DirectX ASCII and make your mods, then compress it AND it will work in FPSCreator.

-This...is my boomstick!
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PocoRev
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 05:23
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@ xero thanks for the tip!

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 19:03
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@xero thank you i will give it ago.

@Cellbloc Studios Thank you you must be a Vulcan your logic is flawless , you have given me another idea

thanks guys
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 22:35
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by the way anybody heard of unwrap3d would this do the trick
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game Spacer
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 01:47
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Unwrap3d I believe is the best unwrapper available,I use it all the time,give the demo a try.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 08:59 Edited at: 27th Feb 2005 09:01
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@game Spacer i gave the demo a try as you suggested and its perfect just what i needed i liked it so much i bought it thanks for your reply

if anyone else is interested it will save direct x files that work perfectly in FPSC!
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