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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Forum for Pro's and Inter's only?

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ShockFire
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Joined: 18th Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Jan 2003 15:43
Copied from a post i made in a different topic:

***
we need rid of spammers. How about a forum where only inters and pros are allowed, and they must of proved that they are normal people, not spammers and whatever. Actually, that might not be such a good idea since the n00bs wont be able to read any topics that anyone puts in the forum. Maybe a forum where only pros and inters can post, while n00bs can only read. You reckon that would work? I guess someone would have to choose and select who can be in the forum though, and it'd have to be coded in, as i doubt this 'home made' forum has features like that. Its a yabb/phpbb/vbulletin thing I suppose if we want that we should join the dbdn, but i for one cant afford it lol.

Anyway, just an idea.
***

What do you guys think?
Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 15:48
Surely "pros" is a personal state of mind? You may think you're an advanced programmer, I might totally disagree No forum can accurately offer this no matter what codebase sits behind it (but at least unlike yabb/phpbb/vbulletin there aren't gaping security holes all over this "home grown" effort).

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:06
it would be nice to have a forum section atleast which people kinda earn a place to be within where we can share ideas, code and media with each other - where we won't be asked every 12seconds what the print command does.

i mean i'd love to have my own forums in place for this - but i don't know php well enough so i use phpBB2 and i do fear that people will hack thier way in and do it just to piss us off
it has already happen'd once with the first FMT forum, and if people are going to place senstive code out there then it would be good to know its secure and with people who will understand it than having to answer a billion questions to why it isn't "plug'n'play"

kinda like a loyalty thing hehee
i mean phpBB2 already has the groups for allowing this, but as you've pointed out the security thing is the problem.
And for some reason when you start to hide things from people they want to break in an see it - why that is i'll never understand.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
ShockFire
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:08
i personally class my self as an inter, i would class a pro as a guy who could make something like db1 in c++ lol.

I thought now, that it could be a forum for all, as long as they post alot or so. There are ways of doing similar things on other forums, you can either let them post in the forum by post count, or personally accept them into a forum.
Rob K
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:10
I suggest just creating a forum called Advanced DBP Coding Discussion - newbies will generally steer clear of it and as long as you make it clear that the forum is for Pros and Intermediates only (eg: "Advanced DBP discussion for experienced users"). This is an open forum so there is no point in restricting it. Also, you get some people who download DBP and pick it up in a weak and start writing advanced plugin DLLs three days later, and those who get DBP and only produce a spinning cube after 6 months.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
ShockFire
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:12
http://www.4forum.com

is a forum i started a couple of weeks ago. So far it has only two members including me lol). I could set up this forum if people requested it, but i'd rather it was on db servers, and was part of the db forum, it would just be better. You wouldnt have to get a different username for one. And you wouldnt be subjected to any of my banner ads lol...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:54
well i'd be happy to have it at mine ... but ya know i don't really feel like being hack for someone trying to get info on what they don't understand.

right now i'm hopeing my additional php actually makes the Technology section a little safer (but its bugged most of the rest of the forum with additional headers)

basically an advanced section is what i was kinda hinting at - but i don't think it should be open to everyone ... should really earn the right to be in there like make something that values the community - say simple Bitmap loader or something

just to stop newbies from getting in there, because whether they understand whats going on or not they'll jump in ... plus spammers won't care, and i thought that was a secondary point

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Jan 2003 21:31
The idea is a good one, surely a=the NooBs would be drawn to it tho, just to write something like "Guys I know you're really busy but I tht I'd ask an expert... how od I use print?" or something Anyway like I said beofre, I thin many new users will be drawn to me new upcoming site and product, which will ease them in2 DBP usage and return them back here when they r ready

Rob K
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 21:48
"Guys I know you're really busy but I tht I'd ask an expert... how od I use print?"

No they wouldn't, trust me. I have seen other forums that have expert forums and this VERY rarely happens.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 21:54
it happened in DarkBasic's original forum - ALOT
remember alot more members here are kids, not adults unfortunatly ... so they don't have the same sence of learning as adults do.

They wanna know everything and they wanted it yesterday, which apparently "pro's" can provide instantly.

you wanna see my msn list since i added that icon to my bar? msn dies on me every otherdays cause it don't like over 250 contants!

and you can't see other forums and think thats the adverage, because i've seen plenty of forums this doesn't happen in and plenty it does.

And you'll generally find the ones it does are actually strickly moderated with deleted posts, moved posts etc...

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 22:14
kid's arnt that bad, i started db when i was 13, and if i can remember, i wasnt that bad

This whole idea is going to have alot of difference in opinions though, and its just one big gigantic catch 22 situation. There are good bits, and bad bits. Which bits outweigh the others though?

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
IanM
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 23:45
So what's the answer?

Here's a suggestion for discussion -

Maybe posting is restricted to members, and members are voted in or vouched for by existing members? That way, anyone can look and learn too.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 01:01
sounds like a plan

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Rob K
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 01:05
That sounds like a good idea. That would be kind of like the Freemasons

There is nothing wrong with "kids" - There are some who are prepared to learn and know that it isn't easy and then there are those who want a ClickTeam style game-maker. The alternative is to use a long-winded forum name eg (3D DarkBASIC Technology Discussion Forum) - that sometimes works.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 01:10
You'll get me in trouble. It was absolutely just a suggestion

But it would stop the 'how does print work?' type questions.

Actually, that's one of the benefits of DBDN. Because you have to pay to be a member, there's no way you're going to waste your own money. Proven commitment.
Arrow
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 02:07
Well, I hate to gain the rath of this threid, but I allways love the underdog. Have you noticed that no n00bs have posted anything here? Now I may not know much in DBPro yet, but I don't think of myself as a n00b, I'm more of a novice. Before I got DBpro, I read these forums. I read every new post that shows up in many of the different catogories (too much free time). The thing that makes me different than most n00bs is that I listen, I don't asume that I can make the next FF, I don't think that I can learn DB in a week, I know that I know nothing.

This may because I'm a pesimist or that I have rather low self essteam (thou I will Not start flaming to up my morral), but I like to think that's becuase I'm more mature. I will admit that there are some real anyoing little brats out there, but by cutting your selves off from them, you're not fixing the problem, you're only adding too it. Why punish all these guys when there are only a few pain-in-the-asses. After a while they figure that this isn't click & play and they go away. If your tired of all the immature brats then set an example and shjow them how to be mature and not run from the problem.

I hope I didn't piss off to many guys out there. Oh yes, oh lastr thing, totally off topic but half way those this rant I, once again, got the all to familar feeling of Duja Vu. Just felt like sharing that .

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 02:33
Not pissed-off at all. I absolutely agree with everything you said.

The object is not to cut anyone off (I also suggested read-only access to everyone), just to control the quality of the content. Anyone who shows commitment to the community should be able to find someone to sponsor them into the board.

And the other boards are still there in the meantime - I'll not stop checking them.

However, I will automatically skip all posts that are obviously wasting time.
If someone won't spend the time putting a reasonable subject line together ("HELP!!!"), or obviously hasn't pressed F1 in the editor, I won't spend my time looking at what they want.
Arrow
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 02:38
Esspecially if they can't find the Newbie Corner section, far to many people posting here that really need to look around first. In any case no matter what we do, their will always be people who try to make oithers lives misable.

Three thing you can't aviod in life"

Death
Taxes
Assholes

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Soyuz
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:02
I'd like to say that I am a Noob in that I've only been doing DB since mid-december and the one thing I suspect would cut down massively on the same old repetitive questions is to have a bloody search option on this board!

People may get p***ed off with repetitve simple questions but what can you expect as I and most other noobs sure as hell aren't going to read every post on this forum just on the off chance that someone may have already asked a question that they're looking for an answer to!

Oh yeah, and a decent friggin manual might've come in handy. As it stands it seems the only way to learn stuff is to ask questions here!

If you have both a decent manual and a search function here and you still get noobs asking daft simple questions then you have every right to get narked off at em, but for now do spare a thought for the stuggling noobs with nowhere else to go!
IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:04
Four things - Spam (emails and here in the forums).

ShockForge/Darth: Meant to say earlier that I agree age has nothing to do with it.

My only criteria for inclusion are a willingness to help others and to try before you ask.

It's only fair that you should put some effort into your own work before expecting someone else to help fix or code it for you. And then it's only fair to return the favour.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:15
I still don't understand the benefits - if you don't want to help a newbie then don't reply to their post. What one person considers "advanced" another considers trivial. How do you vote each other into this group? You can't - it's totally subjective and if you say no to someone you're effectively saying "sorry, I don't think you're clever enough". The whole concept has the potential to breed division and animosity.

Now having an "Advanced DBPro" board is another matter - and although the idea does have pitfalls (most notable - who decides what is "advanced" or not?) it does also have some merit and I'm willing to explore that a little further when I see the right sort of posts that I would catergorise as "advanced" start appearing on the this forum.

Although I will not apply this opinion to this forum - for me personally someone demonstates their skills through their (publically available) code. Anything else is just talk.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:19
yeah... sometime i will subscript to dbdn
everytime i goto i just can't be bothered - just another place to spend my time with the same users

kinda like why buy the milk when you can have the cow for free

probably when i get better with my programming and more involved in the upgrade development i'll take a different veiw - but for now something like dbdn just isn't for me.
especially as if i develop things i'm sure everyone will want to see and know about bugs i find, and really i prefer to release things once it is fully bug free.

Case and point to why is my DLL attempt
2days for something stupidly simple ... but thems the break isn't it

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 03:36
Rich:
I certainly wasn't suggesting any sort of brainy elite and would not agree with it. I suck at 3D, so I wouldn't get in .

For my part, I repeat - My only criteria for inclusion are a willingness to help others and to try before you ask.

Soyuz:
Please don't take offence, but we all started where you are today. I agree that you can't learn programming from the manual - it's really just a reference book. But the editor includes online help that covers the basics and is easy to follow. It just needs the investment of a little time.
Arrow
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 05:07
Yo, Rich. If you do add something to this forum, please let it be a button that skips to the post you last read. After clicking through 5 or 6 pages last thing I want to do is re-read them all because the 'new post' highlight turns off the moment you change the page. That's my only beef with this forum. Oh about spam, who sends it out? That's right, option number 3.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Dazzy
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 11:55
DO NOT make a inter/pro board only at the end of the day it will fail, if you need proof look at blitzprofessional.com.

We have newcomers corner for the newbie, why not bring back hardcore for the rest?

Dazzy
DB IRC Chat irc.hashnet.org port 6667 #darkbasic
Freddix
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 12:42
if someone want to make a "private" forum it is possible and really easy to do.
1 / Jump to www.phpbb.com and download the lates phpbb forum release.
2 / unzip it and upload it to a drawer in your ftp .
Ex : ftp://monsite.fr/forum/
3 / go to your http equivalent using internet explorer
ex : Http://monsite.fr/forum/
4 / setup the asked configuration parameters.
5 / your forum is now setup

To make it private , only for forum administrator :
1 / go to control panel
2 / configure account activation par administrator ( then You can suppress any account created by an unknown person adn when someone suscribe , it cannot directly post messages.
3 / Create your forums sections ( it is easy to find how to do and make it )
4 / Change the status of your forum sections to make them viewable only by active members and make it also private.

Your forum is now succesfully setup with only private members alloweds.
If someone need more help on how to do this , contact me
Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 12:52
I thought that we sort of half decided not for it to be just for inters/pros, and just to be valued members of the community. I don't know, it isnt a really good idea though, a better idea would to confine all the n00bs inside the newbie forum untill we think there allowed out kinda like prison, lol

Rich: An advanced forum is pretty pointless, i mean as you said, who decides what is 'advanced'? You may aswell just keep this forum 'DarkBASIC Pro Discussion' for inter and advanced issues. Are there any mods apart from you rich? More mods to move posts around (if you can move posts in this forum), would solve the problems. When i say 'mods' i mean active mods, not just half of the dbs team signing up and not posting a topic in their life (apart from dbdn i guess). People like raven, everyones heard of him, he's been around a while, and hes active. Just a suggestion

Anyway ive gone off the idea of a new forum; too many bad bits

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:14
It would be highly beneficial to the Forums if someone (a moderator perheps) would go through every few days and move NooB style questions to the Newcomers board! Considering there is a newcomers board I see no reason why they still post under proffessional, with threads that start "Ok I'm a NooB but..." and then ask a simple question thats been asked many times b4...

Raven - "remember alot more members here are kids, not adults unfortunatly ... so they don't have the same sence of learning as adults do. They wanna know everything and they wanted it yesterday, which apparently "pro's" can provide instantly." - Yep my point exactly

IANM - "Maybe posting is restricted to members, and members are voted in or vouched for by existing members? That way, anyone can look and learn too." - Yes I would support something like that. So long as it wasn't TOOO elitist - just people who don't ask questions that have been answered b4 or in the help file, or reeeeaaallly stupid qusetions, or SPAM

Rob K
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 17:16
Normally if there are enough mods on a board then they will be able to ensure that only appropriate posts are made on an Advanced DBPro forum.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 17:29
so i guess we need more mods then, and then the forum will be sorted. We had mods in the old forum didnt we? at least i think we did? i forgot lol.

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
IanM
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 17:51
Personally, I'm more in favour of self-policing rather than appointing policemen.

DBDN has not had one flame war or even any name calling since it started 1 year ago. I've never met a more polite group of people online.
Rob K
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 20:56
The big trouble with DBP is that lots of people find it, get the demo and ask why they can't make GTA 5 10 seconds later.

I like the idea of a DBUID - which is only given to people who own DBPro. Generally, only serious people who have patience and a willingness to learn will have actually gone ahead and brought the product. All we would need to do is somehow give proof that we own it (eg, be asked for the text on a certain page of the manual) - get the DBUID and go to the DBUID only forum. It worked for Blitz.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 21:48
well personally i'd prefer to actually be developing my DLLs that i am at the moment openly with some of the members here ... and on the forum rather than over MSN or something because
A) this is always up
B) everyone can read what i have at once

i'd prefer to do this within a closes forum place where people who answer won't be asking me things like "so what does this do and why" but actually be able to offer valid help...

i've noticed it alot people don't understand the code i do post up and i have to take quite sometime to actually show them how its working.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Soyuz
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 22:20
I think you're on to something there Darth. Perhaps DBDN should have been a place/forum for people who register their product after purchasing it...that'd certainly sort the rough from the smooth.
Rob K
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 00:08
With a DBUID - newbies can read and therefore learn from expert discussion, they just can't post. I would have some open forums and maybe one or two DBUID only (Or DBID, which sounds better)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
Arrow
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 00:16
Um IanM, maybe their are no flame wars on DBDN becuase you have to pay for it. Most noobs ( that 'b' button is far too close to the 'n' button, lol ) and most casual users won't want to pay to be in something that they regaurd as a hobbie, however there will be exections (Evercrack). In any case it usally is a noob that sparks flame wars but not always, just look at the 'Elimenation of Evil' post under Program Annouciments. I like the idea of a DBUID system, however it still has problems (you lose the book, a noob buys befor trying, ect). If some of these noobs would just do a little research and maybe post in the correct forum, then these problems might go away.

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
IanM
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 00:46
That is absolutely the reason. We've paid for the privilege of being DBDNers, and we're not going to waste our money by getting banned over a silly disagreement. We've also proven that we are committed to doing something with DBv1 or DBPro.

Yes, it's not always the noob who starts wars. Some people who should know better do too . But with a voted system, they can have the privilege revoked.

And a voted system stops anyone who can't be bothered to research from causing annoyances to people who have serious requests, or to those who want to help them.
indi
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 00:52
nah theres enough forums for public consumption.
Im moving posts, if u see one I missed then just say

IanM
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 01:08
?!?!? You are too quiet Indi
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 01:29
Hehee... kinda like DBpro Survivor Forum - hehee
"every week we pick 6 lucki DBpro'rs to join the ranks of the DB Elité" hehee

however that said, what i'm more thniking of is a forum where alot of us who are developing alot more serious software, and utilities get access to - and by all means give everyone veiwing previlages, but the point is to stop the spamming and stupidly newbish questions which can be kept to the main format.

Programming discussions in deeper detail suchas DLLs (which Lee & Mike could actually join in more on) and possible sharing of development issues that newbies, and infact alot of older users who are very much still unknowlageable about.

Could even have a small section for tutorials which people click on to veiw, but can't answer to. Because it can be frustrating making something which is as simple as the help file just to have someone say "what does 'Set Normilisation On' do?"
this would be a perfectly valid question normally, if it wasn't answered in the help!

But also it could be a forum specifically for DEVELOPMENT rather than the idle chitchat that most of the posts end up with.

As these forums are being developed, rather than a template that has generic features - it can actually be given features that specify how we use the forum.

So for each post within the Development Forum, we can have a help reply or bugs reply ... the requirement of the help would be you need to have atleast 1 code section. And the bugs for comments.
Then you can have like a Roll-Out contained page for each one and read whichever you want.

perhaps give the users the option within that forum to specify an FTP space which we can use for attachments, so DBpro doesn't actually have the space for us - but we can upload within the posts

i dunno... but the different post types, like standard, software (with feature to only allow certain member types, like visitor, registered, moderators, other DBDF members veiw), Tutorials with rollout comments, Product Mini-Sites kinda like small frame for Flash sites for products you release.

would be great for stuff like that, but only to the users which are likely to make use of it.
Suchas Kevin (UW Designs), Dead Glory (DigAw), etc...

and you'll have to make sure that DB-Mail has block features for spammers and newbies who just don't quit.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 22:47
lol "DBpro Survivor" - Oh well I've been on every other cr*ppy reality TV show of the past 2 years, I might actually have a chance of winning this 1, so long as I don't get drunk and update more "Dark Basic Porn" lol I know at least Raven remembers

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 23:12
lmao ... yeah most of us just try to code when we're drunk

i still can't believe i even knew the picture you used under it - i'm so ashame-ed (*^_^*)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Arrow
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 03:21
Huh, this sounds interestng!!! I'm sure I'll have a few stories about that kinda stuff soon, Sunday is my 21 b-day and I'm getting Saki.

Oh Raven, did you know that you're GIF dances perfectly to Rammstien's 'Feuer Frei'?

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 15:37
lol @ Raven - just pretend u downloaded the picture out of curiosity when he mentioned it on the D12 cd, it sounds a lil more credible - maybe

'Rammstiens Feuer Frei' - lmao

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 15:55
hehee KG ... yeah what KG said
ya know my sister sent me the otherday this huge 16Mb email, it was the complete DBZ X edition ... MY GOD those japs have dirty minds.

Of course in the outrage i had to read it all!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
InSiDeR
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Location: Australia
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 18:00
I dont know if the topic is over and all but making a Pro+inter forum.

what lunatic would actually aggree to that?!!??!
thats the most counter-productive thing i have ever heard, sure jsut leave the newbies in the dark, c'mon, you were all newbies at some point, who helped you, PPL THAT WERE BETTAH THEN YOU, if this actually happened back then youd be pretty f*cked now wouldnt you?

...ahhh i love it when im right

InSiDeR
Visit the NEW DBPlanet, Click Here
"...Yay i got one strap loose..."
InSiDeR
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 18:01
LMAO

InSiDeR
Visit the NEW DBPlanet, Click Here
"...Yay i got one strap loose..."
IanM
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 19:27
Nah, that died halfway through the first page of posts.
Arrow
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Location: United States
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 19:30
Raven, was it the one during the cell games or when gohan was grown up?

This is Truth!
This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 20:10
both and there was 2 more ... one in GT and one which was turned into the Episode that was banned from US TV

Insider should checkout my idea, wasn't so much to stop the newbies learning (althought ALOT of people never helped me when i was learning all the features, its only recently that they pay attention when i ask for help - stupid no?) it was more a place where we can post our code and such and we can determin who gets to see it.

Because something you want newbies to see, then other things like Portal Vis System are just WAAAAAY over newbies heads and no point in explaining it to them - or more to the point asking help for it.

Because you get posts like "whats PVS? how will it help DBpro?" so you sit there for half the bloody post explaining what it is, and those who would've helped you loose interest - because the code is at the start and they're skipping right to the end to see whats new.
we really do need somewhere we can all just catch about the more advanced coding techniques.

Another thing is releasing effects and code to THOSE who are ready for it.

I have so many technology demo's sitting on my hard disk as do other people not releasing simply because we know what would happen.

the same problem as with the shaders and such ... everyone would want to use it, whether they understand what it is or how it works.

you don't give someone a gun if they've never held one before its as simple as that!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!

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