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Bug Reports / possible shader bug ?

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EVOLVED0
19
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Joined: 1st Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posted: 1st May 2005 23:00 Edited at: 1st May 2005 23:03
hay,

ok with dbp textureing(effect flag to 0) i can only have up to 8 textures or the program crashes , and when setting the effect flag to 1 i can have as many as i like(as far as i know). is this a bug, or is it ment to be like this ? , also im not sure if any one else is getting the same prob.

example:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_download.php?i=555625

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Mike P
19
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: England
Posted: 3rd May 2005 03:17
Well it cetainly seems there is some sort of problem... This may actually not be a bug since the flag is a texture flag. So maybe the texture flag is designed to effect more than just the way the textures are applied. To conclude there are only 4 possibilities:

-DBP Bug
-DirectX Bug
-Shader File Bug
-No bug rather a limitation.

IBSE - God We're Good

OSX Using Happy Dude
20
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 3rd May 2005 05:32
Either way, the program shouldn't crash...

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
Calm down dear! Its only an election...
EVOLVED0
19
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Joined: 1st Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posted: 3rd May 2005 07:30 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 07:31
DBP Bug -
yes may be

DirectX Bug -
no as setting the flag to 1(useing shader textures) enables me to have as many as i like

Shader File Bug -
no as it woks with flag of 1

No bug rather a limitation. -
there should not be a limitation to how many textures you use per effect file on a object. as 8 textuers is no where near enuff.

duno whats up with it but i need at least 12 diffrent textures to do 8 lights(pixel lighting with cube maps) and 8 more if add in my owns shadows on top of that (to get doom3 style gfx ). hope thay fix it or someing or might as well quit making shaders for dbp.
Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd May 2005 10:38
It's not a bug, you can only have up to 8 Texture Layers.
It is quite well documented throughout .. well the documentation.

And this limitation isn't bound by Dark Basic Professional, but DirectX. The FVF structure has been designed to ONLY use a MAXIMUM of 8 Texture Stages.

I would go in to why this is so, but well no doubt that would gain the attention of the numerous retards in the forum who pretend to know what they're going on about.

Let's just say you don't want to have more than 4 Samples Per Pass, otherwise your basically telling everyone with a GF3/4/FX R8500/9xxx to piss off an upgrade thier cards if they even want remotely close to reasonable speed.

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EVOLVED0
19
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Joined: 1st Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posted: 3rd May 2005 23:54 Edited at: 3rd May 2005 23:54
doh

thx Raven for clearing that up. i did not know there was a limit on texture stages while useing multiple passes when useing dbp textures(each pass uses the same texture stage as the pass before ). as each pass resets the textures stage when useing the shader images thats why it works with the flag to 1.
Raven
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 4th May 2005 01:39
Exactly.
In this way you can use quite a few more samples in your effects, however at the cost of extra cycles on the GPU.

For effects like, say.. Parallax Mapping, this is an unfortunate requirement of not being able to use Shader 3.0 to do a selective pass. Still it's up to the developer to decide if this is the right course of action.

When using Shader 2.x, I'd recommend never using more than 4 Stages, given the budget cards like 9200 and 5200 only have a limited number of Pixel Pipelines. So more than that and it'll kill speed something harshly.

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EVOLVED0
19
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Posted: 4th May 2005 02:38
it would be great to have a "texture object ob,stage,pass,img" command , but it would be pretty impossabul to add in im gessing. other than that ill have to make multiple objects(object per light lol) to get the effect im arfter . this will run about the same speed as using passes tho but might take up more ram etc. to get going on lower end cards ill have to have the option to lower the effect down (like geting rid off normal maps/cube lighting) so high end user can still use it to its fulliest.
Raven
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Posted: 4th May 2005 03:46
Usually speaking what you do in these situations is reduce the number of lights affecting things.

The way to do this is to create each pass function as it's own .fx

So what you'd have would be
Normal.fx
CubeLight.fx
Shadow.fx

And then you'd have the user set the options for thier card (or presets for each card) and construct the main .fx that is actually attached to the object at runtime.

In this fashion you can pass all the light sources in to the Shader itself, but the Shader would then have been constructed to only take advantage of say 1 for all of the effects.. the rest would just be simple combined vertex or pixel lighting.

while it doesn't convey realistic multi-light sources, it does make the shader playable but scaleable.

There aren't many options of this because most games hide advanced controls, but for Tomb Raider - The Angel of Darkness, it was always felt that allowing the end users to completely alter thier settings to thier own comfort was best.

So it allows them to edit the number of Lights, Effects, Reflections, Clip Planes, etc. that are used as the shader is compiled at runtime. Using Cg was a benefit to this though give it's nature and ability to be constructed inline.

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Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 01:32
This crash no longer happens in 5.9.

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