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Geek Culture / XBOX 360 specs and Xbox Live specs leaked---- you will be amazed

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th May 2005 17:39 Edited at: 11th May 2005 17:49
XBOX 360 Specs:

http://news.gaminghorizon.com/media2/1115660580.926.html

Quote: "
Specifications:

* Support for DVD-video, DVD-Rom, DVD-R/RW, CD-DA, CD-Rom, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 cd, JPEG photo CD
* All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
* Customizable face plates to change appearance
* 3 USB 2.0 ports
* Support for 4 wireless controllers
* Detachable 20GB drive
* Wi-Fi ready

Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU

* 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each
* 2 hardware threads per core
* 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core
* 1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance

* 9 billion dots per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor

* 500 MNz
* 10 MB embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines
* unified shader architecture

Memory

* 512 MB GDDR3 RAM
* 700 MNz DDR

Memory Bandwidth

* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front side bus

Audio

* Multi channel surround sound output
* Supports 48khz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32 bit processing
* 256+ audio channels
"


XBOX Live Specs:

http://news.gaminghorizon.com/media2/1115658600.925.html

So there will be a free version of Live--- about time!


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
Raven
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Posted: 11th May 2005 18:39
Those aren't the specifications freely viewable (since January) at the patent office.

I'm not going to say what exactly is wrong, only that these 'leaked' specifications look alot like the rumoured specifications that have been going around.

A good hint is the fact that the PPC 9xx Processors are only physically capable of 3.0 GHz. Somehow given at that speed one of them producing so much heat that you need an industrial fan/heatsink (preferably a Water/Fridge solution) as well as requiring over 75w of power.. I highly suspect that these aren't real.

(more suspicious given what the patent office have)

Same goes for the VPU. Don't believe everything you read.

[ Liandri Corporation / Chief Software Architect ]
Osiris
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Posted: 11th May 2005 21:24
Also, I think a while back some one said, there will be no HD just flash memory.

Izzy545
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Posted: 11th May 2005 22:27
So, free XBox live? FECKING SWEET! I'm sick of paying monthly for my Xbox live...

Oh, and anyone else gonna be watching the event on MTV tomorrow night? I wanna see some OFFICIAL news, not all these rumors floating around.

Dot Merix
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Posted: 11th May 2005 23:32
It says free xbox live weekends... I'm not sure about a completely free service.

Above it says no fees requires... but below it says free xbox live weekends.. So i assume there must be a charge in there somewhere.



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Dave J
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Posted: 11th May 2005 23:41
So... Infinium Labs' Phantom is looking pretty ace as well, right?


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Killswitch
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Posted: 12th May 2005 01:34
What time is the event on MTV?

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Izzy545
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Posted: 12th May 2005 02:27
Go to MTV.com, I think they said it has your local time there... 9:30 PM EST I think though.

Jeku
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Posted: 12th May 2005 03:36
Quote: "A good hint is the fact that the PPC 9xx Processors are only physically capable of 3.0 GHz. Somehow given at that speed one of them producing so much heat that you need an industrial fan/heatsink (preferably a Water/Fridge solution) as well as requiring over 75w of power.. I highly suspect that these aren't real."


Well, I guess we'll all see when they do their show on MTV. Too bad I can't get MTV here, but I'm sure it'll be on the net somewhere.


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
Lukas W
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Posted: 12th May 2005 03:48
Quote: "3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each"

hmm, the speed of the cpu is 9.6GHz??

Raven
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Posted: 12th May 2005 04:49
Quote: "hmm, the speed of the cpu is 9.6GHz??"


No... if they were individual processors they could pool thier processing in an Asymetrical way, enabling almost literally double the processing capacity. So the equivilent power to a 9.6GHz (well probably less it's normally around 80%)

but as they are internal cores, they don't pool different routines but more extend the processing capacity of a single routine.

I made a post about this on another forum with one hell of a good metaphor that actually got some computer illiterates to understand how processors work.

effectively speaking if you think of it like a dev company..
rather than hiring someone new to work on another aspect of the program, each of the new guys will be working on the exact same aspect of the program as the main guy.

and they all work together.

dual processors would be hiring a second guy to get one with something totally different, effectively halving the time it takes to get your product out.

I'm also conserned about readin the 1MB Cache... that's expensive and VERY hot running. Particularly on this type of Processor, while sure it'll extend the instructions capable; you really have to worry what this processor is going to be like.

If we take a real-world scenario, the Athlon64 X2 (due out in June) @ 2.4GHz is capable of 4200+ right? While the Athlonx64 FX-53 (2.4GHz) is capable of 3800+

So you can see the benifit of a dual core processor over a single core, is approx. 400MHz speed increase, if under perfect conditions your looking at a 3 Core (over the 2 Core) would mean a further 400MHz.. so 4600+, this is almost 1GHz of speed.

However 2x FX-53, are 5300+ I'm not sure what 3x would be... but my point is dual core certainly increase the speed, but not to the level that two individual processors do.

This hopefully will prove and important factor given the Revolution has been reported to have 2x PPC 9xx, rather than Dual Core.
Lukas W
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Posted: 12th May 2005 04:58
hmm, i think i understand a bit better now
but most of this came through the eye and out through my mouth..

Ian T
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Posted: 12th May 2005 15:20
Far, far better than the earlier 'leaked' stats, and absolutely mindblowing in how consoles are suddenly superior to cutting edge gaming PCs in many ways rather than vice versa. Guess I'll be saving up for my first game console ever ...

"Grif, if there's one thing I've learned working with you, it's there there's always a margin for error."
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Dave J
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Posted: 12th May 2005 22:11
They said that about the original X-Box as well, and then you realise the things outdated in 3 months anyway.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Izzy545
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Posted: 12th May 2005 22:23
Exeat: This is true, but I'm only going to spend $300 on this console, as opposed to upwards of $600-800 on a decent PC which wouldn't be powerful enough to play the kind of games I'll be playing on here. Now, I could spend around $1000 and get the kind of games I could play on XBox 360, but is $700(or more!) worth it when(as you said) I'll have to upgrade AGAIN in 3 months anyways.

And IMO even though it'll be outdated in 3 months, the games that we'll be playing on there will be up to par with the PC games for much longer than that.

Dave J
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Posted: 12th May 2005 23:25
You're looking at it from an immediate perspective, if you're trying to match the XBox buy purchasing the parts for PC at the time of the XBox's release then of course you're going to get ripped off. However, if you wait several months after release, then you'll be able to upgrade to a higher spec PC at a much cheaper price. You don't want to buy the latest hardware because you don't need it to play the latest games.


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Raven
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Posted: 13th May 2005 00:29
quite.. 12 months down the link the top-end hardware halves in price as the next generation hardware comes to put it out of business.

While sure your not ever at the cutting edge, you never really need all that power anyways. Personally I tend to buy mid-range hardware, as it starts off reasonably priced but often isn't that far behind the high-end in power.

For example Athlon64 3000+ for £90 or 3400+ for £180..
or GeForce 6600GT for £130 or 6800GT for £240..

when you stop to consider that the top-end only actually adds like 10-15fps to speeds that are already far beyond the 60fps ideal mark on max settings, you've gotta kick back and laugh at people who spend 2-3x what you do just to sit there and boast they get an extra 500 3d marks.

Personally I prefer consoles, as you know in 5years time games will still be trying to compete visually with the PC; and for the most part they will actually be able to equal in a number of cases due to the developers ingeniuity.

Some good examples are Metal Gear Solid 3, and Resident Evil 4.
For the hardware they're on, they truely do look remarkable.

Though this said, I can't say I agree with the price tags.
You'll pay £25-30 for a PC game, but £40-50 for the same Console game. You can't help but feel ripped off, which is what saddens me about the new Nitendo System.

Because America is such a big gaming culture that really is the pivot market for consoles, and because they don't trust cheap hardware.. Nintendo this time are retaining thier hardware and games at similar prices to Sony and Microsoft.

One of the biggest attractions I had for the GameCube was it was so damn cheap and I could buy more games with my money.. Yet that is all going to change.

I'm getting a little sick and tired of the whole 'Media Center for your living room' attitude the Console companies have. I don't buy a console to play dvd-movies or download porn... I have it so I have a gaming machine that until the next generation comes along I'm guarenteed will play my games without upgrading the hardware.
Ian T
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Posted: 13th May 2005 02:53
Quote: " They said that about the original X-Box as well, and then you realise the things outdated in 3 months anyway."


No they didn't-- it was in every way inferior to cutting edge PCs of that time, just like all its competitors and the previous line of consoles, as well. This is the first line of modern consoles that are better than their PC counterparts.

"Grif, if there's one thing I've learned working with you, it's there there's always a margin for error."
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Dazza
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Posted: 13th May 2005 03:30
I am interested to see how Xbox live goes. I wonder if the current Xbox live and Xbox 360 live are going to be two seperate subscriptions or if getting a gold subscription covers both Xbox 1 and Xbox 360. Even with the release of Xbox 360, I am sure there would still be a big online following for current Xbox live games such as Halo 2, Star Wars Battlefront, Pariah, Unreal Championship 2, PGR 2 etc.

Maybe Microsoft may even get really generous and, upon the release of Xbox 360, make the current Xbox live free!!! Obviously, what I am assuming here is that the current Xbox games cannot run on Xbox 360. Or am I totally wrong in assuming this?!!!

I guess we will find out in the not too distant future...
billy the kid
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Posted: 13th May 2005 04:47
Nice thing is now though that any game that can run on XBox 360 should be capable of running on current high-end PCs. And that means no more ports from XBox to PC or vice versa. Ive found a lot of the games that really should be made solely for PC but are also made for XBox are pretty crappy due the hardware limitations of the XBox. Although sometimes this isnt true. But anyway it will get rid of this problem at least in the near future.

Quote: "While sure your not ever at the cutting edge, you never really need all that power anyways. Personally I tend to buy mid-range hardware, as it starts off reasonably priced but often isn't that far behind the high-end in power.

For example Athlon64 3000+ for £90 or 3400+ for £180..
or GeForce 6600GT for £130 or 6800GT for £240..

when you stop to consider that the top-end only actually adds like 10-15fps to speeds that are already far beyond the 60fps ideal mark on max settings, you've gotta kick back and laugh at people who spend 2-3x what you do just to sit there and boast they get an extra 500 3d marks."


I wouldnt exactly call the 3000+ or 6600GT mid range...
Ian T
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Posted: 13th May 2005 04:48
He's playing for the crowd.

"Grif, if there's one thing I've learned working with you, it's there there's always a margin for error."
"It's pronounced margarine, dumbass!"
Raven
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Posted: 13th May 2005 05:49
Quote: "I wouldnt exactly call the 3000+ or 6600GT mid range... "


Depends who you talk to. Some people seem to think it's still 'High-End', others religiously tell me it's 'Low-End'.

I used it as an example cause I bought the parts for my brother a while back.. he kept going on about how he couldn't choose between the X700 XT and the 6600GT so I jokingly told him to get both.

Last sodding joke I make when I'm paying for things.

The way I see it though, is the price of the hardware, and the market it's aimed at makes it mid-range. It's just shy of being budget, but not quite enough power to be high-end.

I guess with the 4400+ on the market and the 4800+ X2 on the way.. it's likely that the processor is aiming more at the budget/low-end but meh! Still I think my point is valid.
Phaelax
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Posted: 13th May 2005 10:53
Quote: " 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each"

3? and intel and amd are just now getting around to dual cores?

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Dot Merix
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Posted: 13th May 2005 14:55
Officially released information and website. Enjoy.

http://www.xbox360.com



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SoulMan
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Posted: 13th May 2005 15:49
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm
Here you go. Here are the offical specs.
SoulMan

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Killswitch
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Posted: 13th May 2005 16:20
Sweet....

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Dave J
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Posted: 13th May 2005 17:47
Yep, almost word for word with the leaked specs.


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Raven
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Posted: 13th May 2005 19:20
Quote: "48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines "


WTF does that even mean?
48-way? .. So how many Pipelines is that? How many Pixel, How many Vertex? Why does it need them to be Dynamically Schedualed if they're running Parallel?

Quote: "Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each"


I'd like someone to explain to me how this is possible, given a Single Core PPC 940 (thier current highest end 64bit Processor) is only capable of reaching 3.0GHz. Even then the heat and power requirements are just ridiculous.

It all sounds impressive and all, but WTF? I mean some of the specifications just don't make sense.
Van B
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Posted: 13th May 2005 19:25
The memory seems outragous to me - I mean 20gb ram is just excessive, and I have no idea what a Teraflop is, sounds painful.

I mean, remember when the PS2 had Toy Story quality graphics?, I reckon that was about 6 months before it was released .


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Raven
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Posted: 13th May 2005 19:47 Edited at: 13th May 2005 19:47
1,000,000 = 1MFlop
1,000,000,000 = 1GFlop
1,000,000,000,000 = 1TFlop

FLoating-Point OPerations Per Second.. or was it Cycle. Meh! well anyways.
Jeku
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Posted: 13th May 2005 20:20
Quote: "I mean 20gb ram is just excessive"


20GB RAM? I believe it's half a gig of RAM, with a 20GB hard drive.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 13th May 2005 21:46
I'm surprised it'll only use 512Mb of RAM...

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Raven
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Posted: 13th May 2005 21:56 Edited at: 13th May 2005 22:55
Actually I'm not impressed. Just say the release video for it...
WATER COOLED, with additional dual silent fans!

Can't say I like the idea of expanding Xenon to the multi-media platform it's become, but still I'm impressed.
I also understand what thier 'Shader Unit' ment by 48-way.

It still firmly has 16x4 Pipelines like the X850, but the difference is the SuperScaler has been taken out, and replace with the 'Multi-Core' technology. This leads me to believe that the GPU is now part of the 3Core Processor.

16x3 = 48, so it does certainly indicate that rather than multiple pipelines it's multiple threads over several pipelines. If it'll beat NVIDIA's nv50 with it's 32x6 Pipeline we'll see.
Being able to run 48 Seperate Shaders at once though is a very impressive and deeply interesting thing.

I mean it is a very different approach to Shaders, than previous designs.

[edit]
Oops..
"Actually I'm not impressed. Just say the release video for it..."

should read:

Actually I'm seriously impressed. Just say the release video for it...

heh d'oh ^_^
Peter H
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Posted: 13th May 2005 22:50
Well....i'm sold

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Van B
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Posted: 14th May 2005 01:14
Hehe, why did I assume it would be 20gb memory! - that was the memory bandwidth. All I can say in my defense is it's been a long week.


Van-B

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Posted: 14th May 2005 01:59
Quote: "I have no idea what a Teraflop is, sounds painful"

ROFL

Killswitch
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Posted: 14th May 2005 03:29
So if you could link up 100 Xbox 360s and share the processing power (like they did with all those Apples a while back) you could get a console obased supercomputer into TOP500?!

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Dot Merix
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Posted: 14th May 2005 08:06 Edited at: 14th May 2005 08:07
Technically if you could get a limited supply of any processor and linked them together forever you'd eventually make top500.

It's nice to see them utilizing features and actually caring about us saving power these days... With this new console, if you're watching a dvd or listening to music it will automatically shutdown 2 of 3 cores so you dont waste energy.

It would've been nice if the machine supported VCD this time around, but i suppose we cant expect the world from them.

Another thing i dont like is the fact they said that the old xbox headsets will work on this one, however because it doesnt use the xbox communicator adapter anymore, there will be no way to change the volume control on older headsets(as the new ones have the volume etc on the headset cord, you think they'd be able to implement a software feature to control volume).

It's sad to see they havent been hyping any of the games that look really excellent graphically, and not gameplay wise. While i understand that gameplay is a key feature for most games, the biggest reason that most gamers flock to buy a certain console is for the best graphics game.

With plenty of time left however i'm sure they'll start hyping some highly graphical game soon.

I think the whole -ring of light- thing is a great idea. Imagine playing halo 3, you set up a large lan tournament with full amount of players... Team slayer, one team red, one team blue. At the developpers hand they can easily change the color of the lights on 8 of the controllers to red, and the other 8 to blue. So you can easily sit down and start playing on the right team.

This also works for such games as NBA, MADDEN etc, where each controller and character on the field are color matched.



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Ian T
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Posted: 14th May 2005 11:00
I found it a bit odd there's no highlight for Oblivion, which is probably the best looking confirmed Xbox 360 title to date, on their page. I guess it's not ready yet-- last I heard they were still tweaking shadow shaders.

The games for it look good, but certainly not excellent. Doubtless we'll be seeing releases two times as impressive once developers have had time to attune themselves to the final hardware being used. I mean, compare Halo 2 to release Xbox titles in terms of graphical splendor

Oh yeah, and who else has heard the news that UT2k7's gonna be released on all major next-gen consoles? That'll be a solid benchmark of which one has the best graphical power

"Grif, if there's one thing I've learned working with you, it's there there's always a margin for error."
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billy the kid
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Posted: 14th May 2005 12:28
Yeah I think though overall the graphics quality has gone up a lot, as well as the physics. One of the car games had realistic looking crumpling (spelling?) when it ran into a parking garage. I have no idea if this was done before, dont play many racing games, but I thought it was impressive. I forget the name of the game but its a racing game where you blow stuff up.

But yeah from what Ive seen, I havent seen graphics yet where I go OMG.
0_x
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Posted: 14th May 2005 17:52 Edited at: 14th May 2005 18:09


my raddy x800 is looking quite scared about now if that is rendered in real-time on the xbox 360

Raven
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Posted: 14th May 2005 18:33 Edited at: 14th May 2005 18:36
Quote: "Technically if you could get a limited supply of any processor and linked them together forever you'd eventually make top500."


Limited Supply Forever? Care to rephrase.. that said I'd hate to think how many Zilog Processors you'd have to string together, and still surely the actual processing speed would be a disadvantage.

Quote: "Yeah I think though overall the graphics quality has gone up a lot, as well as the physics. One of the car games had realistic looking crumpling (spelling?) when it ran into a parking garage. I have no idea if this was done before, dont play many racing games, but I thought it was impressive. I forget the name of the game but its a racing game where you blow stuff up."


Sounds like the 2003 XNA Video.

/-/

Your X800 could quite easily achieve those graphics..
However only a 6-Series GeForce could achieve real-time effects.
Jeku
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Posted: 14th May 2005 20:08
Raven, you'll probably know this. I remember somebody posted a video on here of an MS programmer creating a graphics presentation using pure XML--- do you know what that technology is called and when it will be available?

I tried searching the forum already but can't for the life of me find it. Thanks


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Raven
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Posted: 14th May 2005 20:22
Avalon, using AXML.
It's available as part of WinFX, the CTP SDK is currently available for download.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/

They have some impressive demos with it, but as of yet I've not really tinkered with it much. Certainly does make developing more interesting though.
billy the kid
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Posted: 14th May 2005 23:38 Edited at: 14th May 2005 23:43
No it wasnt the XNA tech demo though that was awesome too. It was a real game for XBox 360, I watched the video on the MTV site.

EDIT:
Game is called Full Auto.
Raven
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Posted: 14th May 2005 23:55
Yeah, they showed the MTV special yesterday.. but wasn't able to watch given my parents (who have suppose to have moved back to sodding wales!) wanted to watch Charmed or some crap.

Said it sounded like the XNA demo, cause that's what happened in that. It's not exactly hard to do, but it is RAM intensive so up until now only PCs would've been able to achieve it.

I saw the Launch Videos from Fileplanet... they're from somewhere else but it's cool. They tell you what thier handles are, heh so I can't wait to whomp them in PDZ Live! heh ^_^

I'm actually getting quite excited about the game's relase now; very very exciting. Didn't know that the guys at Rare had transferred Kameo across, thought it was still for the X-Box.. Though the transfer wouldn't be that hard given the engine was changed to Managed XNA when they changed across from Nintendo.

Still can't wait to see some of those levels in full action from E3!!
billy the kid
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Posted: 15th May 2005 03:32
Quote: "Said it sounded like the XNA demo, cause that's what happened in that. It's not exactly hard to do, but it is RAM intensive so up until now only PCs would've been able to achieve it."


WHAT!?!?! Im not talking about body parts flying off the car, they have had that for years. Im talking about the body itself realisitcally crumples as well as the body parts that fly off realistically crumple. To me it looks like whatever physics engine they are using is taking care of that. WOW!!!
Jeku
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Posted: 15th May 2005 04:26
Quote: " Avalon, using AXML."


Ahh, thankee you.


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
Raven
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Posted: 15th May 2005 05:16
^_^ np, if you like I could post up me recode of the 'Amiga' ball demo.

the original one was from before they had texture mapping, so the guy (can't remember his name) actually wrote it to create the texture pixel-by-pixel then the texture routine.

much like you'd have to if you don't use an API.. sweet if you want to jump in at the deep end (which I doubt you'll have a problem with) but no so sweet if you'd like an easy to understand quick example.

you want to know the funny thing. it's actually quicker than DBP, that kinda made me laugh but it's annoying having to create and seed everything.

like

<3d.camera>
<3d.camera.position>1.0, 1.0, 1.0</3d.camera.position>
</3d.camera>

that's only an example, cause i forget the actual script, but right now it's syntax isn't user-friendly. the developer of it has promised it'll change before release to be better, but for now it's a little too long winded for my likes.

Quote: "WHAT!?!?! Im not talking about body parts flying off the car, they have had that for years. Im talking about the body itself realisitcally crumples as well as the body parts that fly off realistically crumple. To me it looks like whatever physics engine they are using is taking care of that. WOW!!! "


:: yawn :: The XNA Demo showed accurate damage models, which NO isn't something we've seen before. It wasn't random parts flying out of the cars, but physical attribute damage done to solid mesh.

previous examples of this have basically been in the form of Carmageddon-Style.. where the cars are built around being broken apart, even the dings that happen to the cars were either put there via Normal Mapping or pre-Made.

The XNA Demo was the first to show real-time CSG effects while utilising 3D Math to simulate realistic damage. While no it didn't show metal crumpling, this isn't actually WOW type stuff.. given the difference is minimal. It is a case of adding stress factors before breakage.

Checkout the latext NovadeX demonstrations and they have a number of similar examples showing breakable link-chains, CSG bond stress, also the new XNA Cloth Shader demo from NVIDIA shows the ability to real-time slice materials.

While Shader 3 has enable the grunt-work to move from CPU to GPU, the actual effect has been around for years. It's mearly a question of computers catching up to what developers are doing.

If you look at what we were doing 3 years ago, you'll see demonstrations of real-time volumetric fluids; akin to what Maya has.. however until the market is majoritively using Shader 3, there is just no way to really achieve it without the top-end Shader 2 cards. I believe there is a keynote speech about this very fact attached to the Cloth example.
billy the kid
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Posted: 15th May 2005 05:31 Edited at: 15th May 2005 05:32
Well whatever, however you used the phrase "not exactly hard to do". You are obviously ignorant to the process involved in programming that if you think its easy. Need to choose better words next time. And why all the extra information?

Quote: "If you look at what we were doing 3 years ago"


Who is we? You are still living with your parents!

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