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Geek Culture / What will TGC come up with next?

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 05:15
Hi

I have just asked myself, what will be the next big thing that TGC will make? I mean, when they're done with FPSC V. 1.0, they'll only have to fix bugs. But they can't spend forever on fixing bugs, they have to come up with something new. But what? It could be something along the lines of FPSC, but who knows? They could also make a new programming language, or a new DarkBASIC, DarkBASIC Professional Plus or something.
What do you think the next thing will be? I doubt that TGC even knows, but it could be fun to imagine what.

KLU 007

*** PANZERGAMES ***
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 05:33 Edited at: 16th Jun 2005 05:34
Quote: "But they can't spend forever on fixing bugs"


There is still bugs in DBC and DBP after several years; I can imagine they could ^_^

They'll continue diversifying with addon packs and upgrades in my opinion, as their main DB market becomes more and more saturated.

Dumbo and Cool

WIP Board!
Lukas W
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 05:42
i guess they will work for update packs and such for dbp and fpsc.
they will probably make it compitable with longhorn and XP64 and such.


webpage is finally working... 50%
Jimmy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 06:57 Edited at: 16th Jun 2005 07:09
I think perpetual energy is next on their agenda.

Hawkeye
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 07:10
The massive new physics pack costing $100 and so exciting that Mike and Lee dream about it at nights, if the past two IRC meeting thingees are any clue.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 07:38
I heard some rumor that they're using their billions made from DB and FPSC to fund research at MIT for cold fusion whiel they're working on perpetual energy project Jimmy mentioned...

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
Jeku
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 08:14
In all seriousness I wish TGC would build a wrapper for the web where our DBP executables would be playable from a browser. I've seen this with other engines (i.e. PopCap Games), and I would pay good money for this capability.


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
Philip
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 09:44
Lee is presently devoting all his energies to creating a perpetual motion machine whereas Mike has almost built the perfect mousetrap.

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 14:16
Quote: "Lee is presently devoting all his energies to creating a perpetual motion machine"


Thats good news. You never know when you will need one of those.

Quote: "whereas Mike has almost built the perfect mousetrap."


He should stop immediately with this as it is pointless. Everyone knows to use the poison packs instead

Lukas W
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 16:26
how can we know for sure TGC means 'the game creators'?? it might be 'Terrestials from the Galaxy of Consix'.. Lee might be a codename for TGC that means 'Life on Earth must End'!!!

omg! why havent i seen it before?! DB isnt short for DarkBasic it' short for Dumb humanBeings! db is something that is messing with our minds and before we know it we will all be slaves under the giant galaxy of Consix!! dbpro must be 'Dumb humanBeings Pay with Rocks instead Of money rofllmaololol'!!


webpage is finally working... 50%
SageTech
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 16:37
Quote: "In all seriousness I wish TGC would build a wrapper for the web where our DBP executables would be playable from a browser. I've seen this with other engines (i.e. PopCap Games), and I would pay good money for this capability."


Ive wished for this since I first layed eyes upon this site. However something else would have to be used other then directx right?

Sagetech forums currently down
Raven
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 19:34
Quote: "Ive wished for this since I first layed eyes upon this site. However something else would have to be used other then directx right?"


Not really, no. It just means if you do use DirectX then your cutting out a small percentage of your market.

Making it an ActiveX only, now that would cut out more.. but your still only looking at what 10-15% of the market total.

Someone did create one based on DarkBASIC, but unfortunately it was an Explorer 5.x only plug-in. It's a shame cause it was quite cool. As internet connections get faster though, more and more people are turning to Viewpoint, Shockwave3D, etc. to provide some very good online based games.

Although unfortunately I've not yet to date seen a reasonably quick version, Viewpoint is getting better each release.. still you limited to Playstation level graphics. Would be nice for something slightly more complex.

Blaxxun were very good for VRML, until they went bust. Thier back now, but no real improvements on Contact 5; which right now is a must if they want to make it more worth while.

Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 19:51
They have said that they have no plans for a new language, which is a very good thing IMO. Although DBPro is very usable at the moment, it still needs a lot more attention.

More tea Vicar?
Raven
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 21:16
yeah but if you remember DarkBASIC Professional wasn't mentioned until it was basically in-development.

i doubt they have time to sort anything new out yet.

David T
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Posted: 16th Jun 2005 21:57
Mike is working on a Physics pack.

Quote: "In all seriousness I wish TGC would build a wrapper for the web where our DBP executables would be playable from a browser. I've seen this with other engines (i.e. PopCap Games), and I would pay good money for this capability."


Would be nice, but I think DBPro's 100% cpu usage would grind a computer tohalt a bit.

BTW - Don't know if any of you know this but DBPro can render to any application that uses MDI, just create an ini file containing



called (ExeName).ini and your DBPro app will direct all rendering there. Handy for creating nice interfaces in another language.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Freddy 007
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 05:55
Cool.
Personally I would like to hear some more about that physics engine. Although a 100$ is a bit spicy... Hell, DBPro only costs, is it 89$? Anyways, a physics engine would be quite awesome.

*** PANZERGAMES ***
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 06:16
A CHEAP physics engine.

It's M-E-G-A-T-O-N. NOT MEGATRON.
DON'T MAKE ME GET THE RABBIT.
Raven
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 06:18
ODE is Cheap

Freddy 007
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 06:42
Ohio Department of Education?

*** PANZERGAMES ***
Hawkeye
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 06:48
Quote: "Personally I would like to hear some more about that physics engine"

Currently, all we know is that:

Quote: "
[14:09] <rvanner> Top news - in early 2005 we will be releasing a world class physics engine for DBPro. No more info just yet, just that it'll do rigid body, vehicle and rag doll.
[14:10] <rvanner> FPSC will have the new physics engine added to it in early 2005. This is currently being discussed with the Physics engine provider. So price of licenses is being worked out.

[14:38] <QServe_CRIRC> JessTicular asks: That Physics engine - sounds alot like Newton...?
[14:38] <RichD> it's not Newton.. it's WAY better
[14:39] <LeeBamber> WAY
[14:39] <rvanner> Way way better!
[14:39] <RichD> much much
[14:39] <rvanner> Mike loves it!
[14:39] <RichD> it's a proper commercial physics engine.. not a freebie made one
[14:39] <[TGC]Mike> it's awesome
[14:39] <rvanner> We LOVE it!
"


The only thing that it's got that newton doesn't is speed and (appeariently) easy to use vehicle physics I dunno though, it's more expensive that dbp...

Philip
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 08:41
I know the identity of the new engine but Mike swore me to secrecy and, while everyone who knows me knows I am absurd, offbeat and daft, I do carefully honour my undertakings.

But all will be revealed soon. Suffice to say that the engine is all that.

Philip

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
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Raven
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 08:55
It's not exactly hard to guess, given there are only a limited number of "proper commercial physics engine..".

I mean your choices effectively boil down to either:
Renderware: Physics (aka Karma) or Havok.. and yup that's pretty much it.

ODE (Open Dynamics Engine) is free, open-source, and is actually the younger-brother of Karma (what is know called Renderware: Physics). The guy who wrote ODE was the same guy who wrote the original Kea Dynamics for Karma.. ODE has quite a bit of Kea in it too. It's also professionally used by a number of companies; Most recent I can remember is Blood Rayne 2.

So it's not like ODE is some wannabe Physics Engine. It's quite a damn sight easier on the Processor actually than Havok which is just horrible. Newton is extremely awesome in this respect, as it is very cheap on the processor; however a huge problem I have with the engine is it's realistic. While most people would say something along the lines of "but aren't games companies striving for realism?", this is really only true to an extent. Gameplay MUST be fun, if the player isn't going to enjoy what they're doing then it kills the game's feel. Driving games for example require A LOT of leaway from realism in order to make them enjoyable.. too much realism and people get frustrated becuase you peel off from the starting line in WRC 2005 and end up doing a wheel spin; or smash into a post at 110MPH and the car gets wasted.

No one wants that sort of realism, but at the same time if you don't add the car damage and a fairly accurate in the eyes of the end-user who's only rally experience is WRC on Eurosports, then you know they don't realise it takes years and years of training to get THAT good with a car. They want to be able to do that stuff without needing years of skill. ^_^

What gets me is I thought the original one was based on something being done by an Ex-Codemasters guy called Philip. Might be getting mixed up with another project though.

Anyways.. should be interesting to finally see the results of this secret physics experiment that's been going since like forever.

Jimmy
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 08:56
Blah blah blah chrysler blah

Three Score
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 13:12
here is a simple program to tell u how many bugs your program will have


jimmy what are u talking about chrysler for, btw did u know they are now sending all there cars to china to be made

yea i think a browser thingy would be awesome
then u could even make a website made with dbp
(just think of the possibilities)

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 18:20
Shouldn't that be



Why put the i=x*3 if you're not going to use it

Raven
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 19:00
cause v.1.1 has some extra lines



Rob K
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 22:35
Quote: "
"In all seriousness I wish TGC would build a wrapper for the web where our DBP executables would be playable from a browser. I've seen this with other engines (i.e. PopCap Games), and I would pay good money for this capability."
"


Sadly until they fix the problem of 10MB executables for a spinning cube on screen, that simply isn't realistic.

I'm not sure I see the benefits either. The chief advantages of web-based applications is that usually they are:

- Cross Platform (Not possible with DBPro)
- Available from any PC (Not with 10+ MB of runtimes!)
- The server can do the hard work of data processing (Not applicable to DBPro)
- More secure, since they run in a protected environment (not applicable to DBPro, it would need file I/O and native code execution capabilities in order to work)

Ultimately then, it would simply end up as a normal DBPro app, just with the window embedded in a browser window.


BlueGUI Windows Plugin
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 22:39
Quote: "I know the identity of the new engine but Mike swore me to secrecy and, while everyone who knows me knows I am absurd, offbeat and daft, I do carefully honour my undertakings."


You just had to say that didn't you . Like that helps us .

More tea Vicar?
David R
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Posted: 17th Jun 2005 22:44
@DavidT:

Could you give an example of the rendering window thing (the ini file)? Does it need the windows handle name, or the actual process title?

(Example!! )

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 04:07
Holographic food?

The physics pack sounds nice....

<<<<<Used to be "djblackdragon" with being registered in January, 2003, no matter what it says on the left<<<<<
David T
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 04:10
@David R - it's the window caption.

It's not language specific so I can't give a universal example. Just make an MDI form, give it a child window, put the two captions into the ini file and start the dbpro app. It will find the child and render to it.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Jeku
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 05:39
Quote: "Sadly until they fix the problem of 10MB executables for a spinning cube on screen, that simply isn't realistic."


Yeah, but what if the user downloads a one-time 'engine' containing the odds and ends DLLs that every DBPro executable contains? Kind of like when you go to a Flash site for the first time it directs you to download flash, and once you have it all of the flash sites work after that.

Then you would click on a file that could be little more than the source code that would parse and run in real-time in an ActiveX or Java object. So you would still need the requirements of a DBPro app (Windows, DX 9.0c, etc.) Know what I mean?


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
the_winch
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 06:17 Edited at: 18th Jun 2005 06:20
I don't think there is anywhere near enough demand for a 3d version of flash that requires the latest directx and a decent video card and a 15mb download.

dbhelp - online dbpro help files with user comments
DBAlex
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 06:21
A Baked Potato Catapult Machine is next on the agenda for TGC.

Read all about it in Lees Dev log...


AMD 64 3000 + 512mb RAM + 80GB HD + Radeon 9600se 128mb
http://www.dbastudios.cjb.net
Raven
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 07:28
Jeku, I've been asking Lee each time I get a change why DB/P doesn't yet use Runtime-based executables.. each time the response has been the same.

He's never said no, but then he's never said yes.

Quote: "I don't think there is anywhere near enough demand for a 3d version of flash that requires the latest directx and a decent video card and a 15mb download."


Viewpoint might only need DirectX 6.0, but it still requires on HELL of a system to run it at a reasonable speed.

They're games are BIG, I mean msot take a good 5-6minutes to download even on my 1Mb Connection; Shockwave and Viewport both use Runtimes that took around 10minutes to download.

Given most gamers don't touch these sort of games because they look weak as hell, to actually have a language that can output at the speed DB/P can; then that'd be a huge plus.

Sides the actualy DLLs are only 15MB on-disk, in a setup util they seem to quite happily compress to around 6MB.

qwe
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 19:56
sorry guys. ive already made a couple perpetual energy machine blueprints and patented all of them. TGC lost the perpetual energy race to a highschooler who took general physics honors

Check out the DB Freebie Archive: http://lysergium.net/dbfree/ thanks to DARKGuy
Baggers
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Posted: 18th Jun 2005 21:22
Wheres GogetaX...he should be here any second to out-do you with his "well i made 7 perpitunal energie makchines while coding my 10th mmorpg lol"

Bah-Humbug !

kaymation
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Posted: 17th Jul 2005 11:54
i would love a program were u can make games for every console (including pc) +animated modles+bitmaps+sounds (recorded and efffects) anyone interestred in that?????

i owe all my wantingness to TBC at [href]www.homestarrunner.com[/href]
FINN MAN
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Posted: 17th Jul 2005 12:25
I would like to see a mapping program that allows you to apply AI files to objects and export the code to load into dbp. Something like this would be really helpful.
Merranvo
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Posted: 17th Jul 2005 15:37
Quote: "i would love a program were u can make games for every console"


"As systems become more complex they become less stable." (Give or take) -Michal Criton, Jurrasic Park
R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 18th Jul 2005 06:44
Quote: "i would love a program were u can make games for every console (including pc) +animated modles+bitmaps+sounds (recorded and efffects) anyone interestred in that?????"


You can do this now but it's really complicated.

there's a lot to be said for unspeakable acts...
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 18th Jul 2005 08:01
That's unpossible?!


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 00:18 Edited at: 19th Jul 2005 00:18
Or inpossible!

More tea Vicar?
Van B
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 01:10
The only way that would be possible is with an interpreted language, maybe even something like DBClassic, but each platform would need it's own interpreter code to interpret your game - there was plans for this sort of thing on the PC, Mac, Linux, ST and Amiga - but it did'nt get very far.

Thing is that most pro-publishers would avoid systems like that, and there's not a strong enough demand for it, or even a development house capable of such a task.


Van-B

Yusaku
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 01:15 Edited at: 19th Jul 2005 01:16
Porting games to the new Xbox 360 wouldn't be too hard.

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Van B
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 01:29
Isn't that what they said about the XBox, how it was practically a PC and it'd be playing PC games only a little bit cut down?

Instead we got ported PS2 games for the first year! .

I know what your saying though, the 360 is fairly PC-able, it just depends on if M$ would make any money with it. Personally I think a starter kit like the old Net Yaroze would be cool, like you buy a special edition 360 and it comes with connection leads and software to allow you to make your own games in C++. The Yaroze was quite cool, but a system like that with next gen technology could be huge - I mean, the first new console with this sort of development ability get's a guaranteed purchase from me, because it extends the life of a console by years - much like the homebrew scene with the Dreamcast and how that helped keep the machine going when the moneygrabbing publishers bailed out.


Van-B

Keaz
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 01:31
@David T
Quote: "BTW - Don't know if any of you know this but DBPro can render to any application that uses MDI, just create an ini file containing"

Wish I knew that sooner... I have some new experimentation to do now.

As to the perpetual motion machine. A true perpetual motion machine isn't good for anything. It can't power anything outside itself so I don't se what the big deal is? Now the Baked Potato Catapult Machine, I'd buy that. It sounds like fun.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Keaz
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 01:36 Edited at: 19th Jul 2005 01:38
A generally released console with development capabilities. I like the idea, but console makers won't. Why? Royalties. MS lost millions on the XBOX consoles. They made their money on game royalties. They changed the console business model. Give free development for homebrew and pros will utilize it too and that means lost revenues.

Microsoft expected to lose money, but they could afford to in order to gain market share through flashy hardware capabilities.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 03:27
Quote: "Personally I think a starter kit like the old Net Yaroze would be cool"


Yeah, Net Yarzone was cool but it wasn't very powerful (I seem to remember reading that anyway, I never had any of the equipment needed at the time it was out)

I'd definately be interested in buying something like that for XBox or PS2 - but they'd have to think of another colour than black for the dev consoles this time around... maybe bright white?


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
DBAlex
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Posted: 19th Jul 2005 03:31
Net Yaroze was cool yeah... The games created werent that great though... Ive played most of them.

They were on the cover disks of offical playstation magazine... IIRC the best one I ever played was a PuzzleBobble fan game/clone in 3D..
Me and my sister played that for ages... !

Oh and how much did Net Yaroze cost at release? I allways wanted one, But never new how you could...

And yeah something for developing software for consoles would be cool... Would be easier if all consoles used the same graphics engine... Or if they just used DirectX!


AMD 64 3000 + 512mb RAM + 80GB HD + Radeon 9600se 128mb
http://www.dbastudios.cjb.net

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