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Work in Progress / Normal Map Generator

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 11:45
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Hey dude, this is a real nice app, and see myself make a lot of use for it, however, my models tend to have more than one texture file, which would be something I would suggest adding support for, if not, I'll just retexture as a single texture (Well am gonna retexture anyway, my textures look horrible atm)

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MikeS
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 20:55
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@Anime Blood

The type of file is the exact same as used to generate the normal map. So if a .bmp was used to generate the normal map, just rename the file and add ".bmp" to it. I'll work on fixing this in the next release.



@benny53

No shaders are used until you click "Preview 3D". I'll add an option in the preview mode to tell whether or not you can properly view the model with shaders.

@Seppuku Arts

Yup, one texture file is the easiest way to do it. I haven't tried using multiple normal mapped textures on an object yet. Will be something to definitly look into.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 11th Mar 2006 22:24
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Quote: "@Seppuku Arts

Yup, one texture file is the easiest way to do it. I haven't tried using multiple normal mapped textures on an object yet. Will be something to definitly look into."


Kewl, I'll use single textures until if it is implemented

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 12th Mar 2006 04:39
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Ahh okay thanks. And Seppuku if you send me the finalized single texture I can do some work on it I can use my photoshop skills alongside the Illustrator trial I have right now. And then after that I can just use Illustrator 6 at school anyways.

[url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/Fryedrycestyle]

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Mar 2006 17:50
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Quote: "Ahh okay thanks. And Seppuku if you send me the finalized single texture I can do some work on it I can use my photoshop skills alongside the Illustrator trial I have right now. And then after that I can just use Illustrator 6 at school anyways."


Oh yeah I forgot about your texturing offer lol, I would talk to Oolite about that one, as he has the final model which he is currently animating, I'll email you his email addy, so you can ask him for a UVMapped model, and for him to apply his skele on the UV mapped model.

Cheers dude

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MikeS
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2006 19:39
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Just installed Update 6 Release Candidate 4 and recompiled the program today. I did a simple benchmark by setting the sync rate to zero, and here's the results.



Overall I'm pretty happy with the results. Once update 6 is finalized, I can do some other .dll removing to get that file size even lower.



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jasonhtml
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2006 21:51
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yay

Deathquest (MMORPG)
Deathquest Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=61108&b=8
DD Studios Website: http://www.geocities.com/jasonhtml/
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2006 00:26
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Nice, 40fps is a good gain, even if you could notice the differance with your system, but could increase speed on people with PC's like mine

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MikeS
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Posted: 14th Apr 2006 20:54
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[Updates]
-Fixed bug where program crashed if you clicked "cancel" on the dialogs.
-Program now exports normal map as the same format as image loaded.

[In the works]
-Update to Preview 3D
-Control over Normal Map appearance
-Scrollbars for larger images

[Possible features(that are up in the air right now)]
-import/Export to .ms3d, .dbo, .x

Next release should be a big one.



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Hawkeye
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Posted: 14th Apr 2006 21:12
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When I first saw this, I kinda ignored it, but now that I'm starting to delve into shaders I've realized how useful this little app could be Looks pretty useful, *downloads alpha*, might mess around with this some.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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MikeS
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Posted: 20th Apr 2006 05:57
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Yeah, shaders are the future as far as graphics go for games.

Might I also recommend downloading my Shader Helper tool in the Program Annoucements section if you need more help with Shaders.

I'm going to do my best to try to integrate the Shader Helper tool into this normal map generator as well. Nothing guareenteed, but I think it'd be cool if you could add some other effects to your normal mapped models.



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Calevra
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 16:57
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Hey this looks very cool, im gonna be using this , thnx

only 1 thing I need to know...are normal maps supposed to be inverted?Because all the normal maps this app generates are inverted.By that i mean, holes are bumps..and..cant explain it by words my english is 2 bad for this.Anyways look at this picture.



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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 18:04
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Looks fine to me. Apply the normal map to the object first before you make your decision.

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Calevra
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Posted: 21st Apr 2006 22:47
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it wasnt a decision, i was asking if thats the way it should be..
read my post again, I sayd: "there is one thing I need to know"

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MikeS
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2006 04:05
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Yes, that is the way they should be. I'm currently working on making the normal maps adjustable, so you'll be able to invert the normal map again if you prefer it the other way for a different effect.



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greenlig
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 16:43
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looks good mikeS. Any plans for a polygon based normal map genrator? I alreaedy use a GIMP plugin for normal maps, but texture based ones really done give you mutch beyond some specular highlights. What it great about normal maps is faking more polygons and i think moogal's idea about making a greyscale hightnap wouldnt be a bad idea for artists, but it involves a lot more work that is necessary. Although, me being no coder means i wouldnt know how to get normals from one object and apply them to another.

/endrant?

Lol, looks good though.

Greenlig

Aust. Convention...get there!! http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=38799&b=2&p=1
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dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 16:52
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for him to make a texture baking system he would have to code his own raytracer which is a stupid suggestion, if you have the tools to make highpoly models then sureley they should have tools to render to texture, there isnt much problem with generating normal maps from textures, as i believe you need to use 2 types of shaders to support true tangent space normal maps, because the lighting should be calculated based on only the rgb values, but if you tried to use a normal map generated from a texture you would end up with terrible results? wereas the cheaper method would work like a bumpmap and just offset from the angle/normal of the poly.

Halowed are the ori.
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 17:23
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A greyscale heightmap function would be dread useful... there's a shader I've been dying to try out that requires that and a normal map to work properly.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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MikeS
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 20:27 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2006 20:39
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Quote: "looks good mikeS. Any plans for a polygon based normal map genrator? "


Yes, I'm actually extremely close to getting a polygon based normal map generator complete. One of my concerns though, is performance. I might have to make it a seperate project, and use DarkSDK(once I am able to purchase it). DBP can probably handle the project, and we'll know once I get it functional, however, this is a project that the speed boost C++ provides would really benefit it.

----------------------------
Normal Map Generator version 0.81

-now exports greyscale images based on the original texture map. If anyone wants, I can also add the ability for it to make a greyscale of the normal map if that is seen as necessary.

-Option added to export model as .dbo file to project folder.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2006 23:40
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Awww, so all we get is stuff to read this time? *sits and drools* so close, and yet so far...


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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MikeS
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Posted: 24th Apr 2006 00:20 Edited at: 24th Apr 2006 00:20
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Okay okay, here's a screenshot showing off the recent changes.



I've also replaced the status bar, so it'll give more useful information as to what you have or haven't done yet.



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MikeS
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Posted: 12th May 2006 02:16
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- You can now import normal maps to use on your models.
This means that you don't have to use the default normal map generated by the program, or you can load a previously created normal map in order to save time and use the program as a 3D viewer.

- Models now use shadow shading by default.

- Exiting the program now brings up message dialog box to ensure you really want to exit.

Current version is 0.85. Lots more to come, but it's almost ready for an official release.



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zircher
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Posted: 12th May 2006 02:25
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Coolness, please keep us posted.
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 12th May 2006 14:53
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Mmmmm nifteh


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Fallout
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Posted: 12th May 2006 17:43
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Looks great Mike. Waiting for the official release then I'll definitely be trying this out.

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Drew G
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Wow, this thread lasted this long, whoa...
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ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 12th May 2006 23:22
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nice.

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Xander
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Posted: 13th May 2006 01:53
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Looks like a great utility. I'm sure I'll be able to use it for Firewall 2

Another wonderful contribution to the DB community from Mike

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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MikeS
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Posted: 13th May 2006 17:10
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Thanks Zircher, I most definitly will.

Thanks Hawkeye.

Thanks Fallout, perhaps some of your models in your RTS will make there way towards being normal mapped.

Thanks Alpha Zero.

Thanks Xander, I hope to see some sharp and normal mapped models in the next version of Firewall.



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MikeS
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Posted: 27th May 2006 19:23
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Version 0.92

-Now generates a third texture to be exported. This texture created is a template made so users can easily recreate a new uv map for their model for future use.

-First implementation of the 3D model preview was added. Users may now rotate their objects and play object animations.

-Technical problem fixed. Users may now access all the functions of the menubar in 3D mode.



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Xander
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Posted: 29th May 2006 05:11
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Sounds like it's coming along nicely! Gee, I wish I could use it now

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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zircher
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Posted: 29th May 2006 19:33
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The template idea is a nice touch. After all, most game content providers like to take a single mesh and provide multiple skins for it in order to add some variety.
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MikeS
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Posted: 29th May 2006 20:48
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Thanks Zircher. It's too often I find myself messing around with making multiple saves of an objects UV map. Why not make the finished one, and then create a new blank one from that if I need to make a variation?

I might also add some color replacing tools for easy template creation as you mentioned. That's down on the priority list, but certainly something that would be beneficial.

Latest Screenshot:




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Slooper
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Posted: 31st May 2006 12:38
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Well MikeS is this program going to be free? if not what is the price going to be?

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MikeS
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Posted: 31st May 2006 22:43
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There will be a commercial version of this. It'll most likely be the same program, just limited exporting capabilities in the free version. Price will be set once I finish the program and evaluate the range of features verse cost verse development time verse money spent, etc.



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Mattman
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 23:29
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Looking awesome Mike!

Hey guys, I have a semi-related question, and if you want Mike I can move to a new thread in DBP. I've never gotten bumpmapping to work in DBP before, and I think it is my graphics card. Is there someone out ther that can verify this for me?

Thanks,
Matt

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MikeS
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 23:36
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=55174&b=1

Use point lighting and cull your objects. Might be more too it than that to get things looking even better, but I'll of course add that to the code export before the program is finished if I find anything.



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Mattman
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No, I mean DBP has a nice lil silent crash whenever I run a program with the bumpmapped objects. Always says theres an error on the line where I set the bumpmapping on.

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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MikeS
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What type of graphics card do you have? What version of DBP are you running? Can you make a quick program that'll show your max pixel shader version?

Based on your results, I might add an alternative blend mapping function to get a similar effect as a normal map, but not quite as impressive. This would be quite time consuming, but I'm sure I can work it out eventually.



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MikeS
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2006 06:14 Edited at: 4th Jun 2006 00:13
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Version [0.95]

Features Added:

- Color picker and replacer now added so you can change original texture. [Functionality to change percentage is enabled, but currently not changeable by user.]

- Original texture that is loaded is now always saved due to Color Replacer.

- Can now scroll around the screen in 2D mode to view all parts of textures of any size.

- Effects Menu now added for the 3D Preview[Ghosting and wireframe modes].

- Scale across x,y,z axis added to user interface.

- Added a polygon count to status bar for 3D Preview

- Depth functionality now added. Normal maps depth may now be changed. This functionality has been in for a while, but I'm still tweaking it to avoid what I call, unwanted specular spots.

Bug Fixes:

- Program now overwrites image files and checks if they first exist in the Project folder.

- Fixed camera movement, so when rising up and down(shift and control), the camera no longer pitches you to zero degrees.

- Users can now texture the object, whether in 3D mode or in 2D mode and the texture will automatically update.

- 3D models loaded will automatically replace previously created 3D models.



Here's what I was able to do with the color picker and replacer. By simply right clicking anywhere on the screen it picks up the rgb, and then any red, blue, and green values within 20 pixels of that value are changed. Note that the 20 pixels is of course adjustable Depending on the quality you'd like to maintain.



By far the biggest update this program has seen in features since it was first built.

[EDIT] Users without shader cards may now use the program, as I've added 2 additional blend modes that make use of the normal map. These modes are being tweaked however, to get as close as an effect as possible to using a shader.



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MikeS
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 01:33 Edited at: 5th Jun 2006 01:33
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Version [0.955]

-Users may now import up to 3 textures to use on their models. Future support for having the two additional normal maps generated and automatically applied will depend on DBP/DirectX limitations.

-2 Additional blend modes(as seen in screenshot) added for use for users without shader cards.



Enjoy!



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zircher
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Posted: 5th Jun 2006 04:58 Edited at: 5th Jun 2006 05:03
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Hey, Colonel Z! I just recently posted a question in the 3D chat board about him but I'll make the segway here if you don't mind.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=80847&b=3

Does anyone have any keyframe/animation documentation for that model?
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MikeS
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Unfortuantly I don't have any information on the model unfortuantly. Perhaps try to e-mail Simon(as that's who I'm guessing made the model).



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zircher
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Do you have a way of contacting him? His profile is notoriously blank.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_profile&i=0b70ee7b5ee68c8526822cb479781d90
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MikeS
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Unfortuantly I don't, perhaps try e-mailing RickV or Richard Davey.



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QuothTheRaven
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Is there a working download link for this program? I never got a chance to download the original and would love a go at it.

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 11:10
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I was wondering about polygon normals.

I made a bump to normal converter, and had it take the polygon normal and fill a texture map accordingly - but after that I couldn't get anywhere, this is for vanmesh so I have nice access to all the internal stuff. Is that along the same lines as you are doing things, like taking the mesh, then drawing each polygon onto the texture. I was thinking that by smoothing all these filled polygons it would make the texture appear smooth - like an automated smooth map generator.

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MikeS
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 21:09
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@QuothTheRaven

This was the last release. Version 0.7

It'll generate the normal map and you can save it to the images directory.

@Van B

Currently the only data being used is from the texture, nothing from the mesh. I've kind of played around with getting the normals of objects, but two things have held me back.

1.) I haven't been able to properly get an objects uv data and display it onto a uv map.
1.) DBP struggles with anything much over 50,000, so the normal maps wouldn't be as high as quality as using other programs(Zbrush). Thus, why I added the feature to import normal maps.

If I work it out, I'll be sure to send the info. your way.



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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 09:16
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Maybe I'm doing something wrong, when I generate the normal map and try to save it, nothing appears in the projects folder.

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MikeS
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 19:47
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It should create the folder and image wherever you loaded the image from. Then again, you have an older version so that might be something I've fixed within the last few weeks. The full version will be coming out very soon though, so fear nevermore.



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