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Geek Culture / Google Talk

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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 05:47
So I'm signed onto Google's IM right now. Pretty cool I guess - although it's kind of pointless as it's just standard Jabber protocol and there's no real reason to use it yet.

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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 07:53
Haha, I'm so awesome -- http://www.google.com/talk/ -- I guessed that page existed before they linked to it on Google . Bet the slashdotters have figured it out too. So there's obviously the official client as well as GAIM compatbility.

So far it really pwns, it's nice and minimalistic and all smooth instead of MNSM's ugly bulkiness or AIM's flatness or Yahoo's bloatedness. And it has great Gmail integration.

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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 07:59 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 08:07
Mmm, the mic integration is sheer goodness. The windows have awesome docking and tabbing functionality. This is the bestest messenger ever

Update: And the RAM usage is incredibly low. Voicechatting with five chat windows open and it's using 14 megs of RAM. This is one sweet program

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indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 24th Aug 2005 08:07 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 08:08
use the edit feature to ammend your posts, your setting an example for every user.
i know your excited but try to Curb your enthusiasm.


If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
Dave J
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 08:14 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 08:20
Yeah, you damn newb!


Installed, it looks nice but I have no one to talk to.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Raven
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 08:23
wow, another product from Google... *yawn*
not to be funny, but it's a messenger.

on my desktop I already have 3 of thse bloody things, people also expect me to use Skype recently, which I would if it wasn't for the fact that each time I install it I get random people calling me just like I used to get with ICQ.

Sorry but if I wanted random sales-reps calling me I would unblock them on my home phone. This is getting ridiculous, and you just know that because it's "Google" people will use it thinking it's the leetest thing since sliced bread or broadband.
(difference being the previous break-throughs actually were USEFUL)

God I think if Google were to release a web-browser there would be a huge wave of head exploding as a bunch of these zealot retards clamber to try and figure out which one would make them more leet, FireFox or Google Browse.

We all know a sodding web-browser is comming to, it's literally a matter of when right now not if.

Dave J
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 08:28
You're clearly jealous of Google's phenomenal power to influence everyone with a mere movement of their cybernetic pinky finger. You don't wear Nike shoes because they're revolutionary, you wear them (or don't wear them) because they're Nike.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 08:49 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 08:52
Raven's jealous he wasn't a beta tester like the guy who leaked the info

indi... yeah, sorry, we were having loads of fun playing with it in the IRC.

Very cool new toy if nothing revolutionary. It's amazing how simple and streamlined it is compared with all the other major clients' extreme bulkiness. It lacks complex features - bold, italic, underline, emoticons (though it highlights them in blue), backgrounds, etc - but it has great text and voice chat, and that clean simplicity is exactly how Google got popular in the first place. Obviously they know their game

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Raven
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 09:18
Quote: "You don't wear Nike shoes because they're revolutionary, you wear them (or don't wear them) because they're Nike."


See, I'm pretty sure that's a major difference here. I would buy them because they're comfortable... question is are they comfortable enough to be worth the £60 tag?

Usually I'd say no, but then all other damn trainers in my size are the same damn price, so I just go with what's comfortable. You just know they're being made in india or something for like 50p the pair.

Quote: "Raven's jealous he wasn't a beta tester like the guy who leaked the info "


Yeah, I mean no one could EVER have figured out that site name or gained entry without the help of the masked google beta man!

Quote: "that clean simplicity is exactly how Google got popular in the first place. Obviously they know their game"


What is funny is actually Google are more popular because it's an alternative to Yahoo! and isn't run by Microsoft. Well I mean provided you ignore the fact that over half the employee's there are ex-softies. Yet they're trading under the name Google now, so they can't be bad... and you know they're not out to crush everyone else and make billions like Microsoft cause they've gone on record to say they're only in it to make themselves billionaires. So they'll obviously stop at $1,000,000,000 each. Seems so much better than Microsoft.

I don't care much for Google products cause, well they supply exactly what is already on the market... yet market it in a way that make people feel they're getting an awesome deal.

G-Mail for example. Invite only. Great, only how many people now feel that the invite only service has actually made it exclusive in any shape or form? You get 2GB of space (which was upped recently to something like 4 or 10... i forget) which is just amazing. Only who the HELL gets 2GB of e-mail?!

I'm being serious. Obviously it's far more important to be able to send that 250MB video you just found of a cat being pushed into a jar, to your mate than it is to have a spell-checker at your disposal to make sure you spelt 'helo' correctly, and a virus-checker to make sure the file your adding isn't going to spread a worm that affects half the damn world over-night.

They've done this with all of thier products. Google Maps, does EXACTLY what Yahoo! Maps has been doing for what 5-6years now. Difference is Google Maps you can pull and scroll. Well whoopdy-freaking-do, someone came up with a minor innovation that makes it slightly easier to view maps in real-time. Yet while I don't ever remember seeing some major palava over when Microsoft added AutoRoute to thier Map System, or Yahoo! even introduced the map system... I did see a ridiculous uptake of when Google "introduced" this amazing new service.

Watch out everyone, I hear thier next project is a colour television that you can... get this... change the colour settings between HSL and RGB! Oooh, it'll revolutionise how we see television tommorrow!

If a company like Yahoo! or Microsoft introduced things like this everyone would bitch at them for not providing enough innovation. Yet the Adware Poster Boy company Google, are hero's for doing the exact same thing. Yay!

you know what really truely ticks me off about google. Isn't thier current market push, but it's the fact that they're actually doing it in a way that makes Microsoft feel threatened. Now all of the products I used because well I COULD actually use them and get results... now suddenly have a Google look becuase Microsoft thing playing catch up will help them win back the market support.

Newsflash! No-one likes the new Explorer 7 look EXCEPT those people who are never going to actually use it cause they like to get in bed with thier FireFox each night.

MSN Search has lost a huge chunk of users because now it's just as ****ing useless to use as Google. Why the hell do all of the products that I like to use have to be adapted becuase Google has become some retarded brand name?

That's what ticks me off about the company. Before I couldn't give a flying monkies what they did and released, but now I'm having to use thier products whether I want to or not.

Dave J
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 11:01
Wow, that post is really, really, long! Too long to read, even. But since I'm fairly confident I know what's in there, I think you should just get over it, there's nothing wrong with Google, you just don't like it because they're a relatively new company who have made some excellent business decisions, this doesn't make them evil.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
David T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 11:17
I guessed an IM client was near when Google unveiled Picasa, Hello in that rocks as a messenger

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 14:39
Quote: "you just don't like it because they're a relatively new company who have made some excellent business decisions, this doesn't make them evil.
"

Yeah come on, they are only as evil as microsoft.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 80%
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Kentaree
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 14:47
Funny thing is, Google actually sucks as search engine. There's lots of articles out there explaining how it works, what the major flaws are etc, in the end it all comes down to marketting.

For instance, have any of you ever heard of www.clusty.com? I've found stuff on that about myself that can be found nowhere else, and some I didnt even know

Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 14:53
Yes Kentaree that is funny, but I'll tell something else thats funny. The fact that everyone here says they use google over microsoft because they say microsoft is evil.

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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 14:55 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 15:02
Quote: "you know what really truely ticks me off about google. Isn't thier current market push, but it's the fact that they're actually doing it in a way that makes Microsoft feel threatened. Now all of the products I used because well I COULD actually use them and get results... now suddenly have a Google look becuase Microsoft thing playing catch up will help them win back the market support."


well thats microsofts fault for not being more creative or innovitive. Instead of trying to match Gooogle maybe they should try to better them. I respect any comnpany thAT make Microsoft feel threatened. I dont believe MS are evil they just needed a bit of good competition and this will ultimately make them a better company in the long run.

im just a simple peasant...
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 15:24
clusty has some search links that google doesn't and google shows some that clusty doesn't. Does anyone know a better one?

Hawkeye
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 15:51 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 16:11
Hmmm... I think raven is missing the point here. AGAIN

Google has more sex appeal than microsoft or any other search engine, and that's all there is to it

edit: very sleek, and nice integeration with gmail, I can see this becoming popular. only one problem so far--I can't change my display name without changing my name @gmail. So if I set it to display my real name over gmail, the same thing will occur on gtalk.

Other than that, I can really see this taking off #1 thing that will boost it beyond msn is the easy setup--I gave up on msn twice because of the stupid "enter code displayed in box below" thing was so freakin' messed up I could never get the code right. They finally backed off on that tho', and then I finally signed up. But with gtalk, all you have to do is sign for a gmail account, which is now free to anybody in the usa btw. And the voice-talk thing will definately boost this for developers who can't take their hands off the keyboard whist coding in order to switch windows

edit 2: and the lack of a "appear offline" button is a titch annoying, too

edit3: ok, so you can change your name... but the requirement for a last name is kinda lame. I ended up using "teh uber-l337"

Raven
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 16:37
Quote: "Hmmm... I think raven is missing the point here. AGAIN

Google has more sex appeal than microsoft or any other search engine, and that's all there is to it"


Yes, because what you want while trying to communicate with your friends via Electronic means is that all important sex appeal from the minimalistic layout.

To be quite honest, if the layout was minimalist and sleak; then I would agree that Google would have some awesome style.

Softimage have a minimalist approach. Google have that 1997 "I've just learnt HTML" look about them. There is a very big difference between the sleak lines of a Porsche, and the basic functionality of the Yugo. They're not in the same class and they never will be.

Quote: "#1 thing that will boost it beyond msn is the easy setup--I gave up on msn twice because of the stupid "enter code displayed in box below" thing was so freakin' messed up I could never get the code right. They finally backed off on that tho', and then I finally signed up."


Bullcrap. It's the only messenger that doesn't require you to have an account with microsoft. You mearly need to link an e-mail with a .NET passport which is a simple case of typing in the e-mail then using the activation e-mail. Your good to go after that.

I've not used a MSN/Hotmail account in what 2-3years now.
Recent enhancements to the technology have ment that it also provides the most stable Audio and Visual Systems of any messenger even with upto 7 people conferencing at once.

Voice isn't exactly new. AIM, ICQ, Yahoo and MSN have all had voice functionality since 2001, people have a novelty about it when they first get a mic then eventually it wears off. Only people who really use it are those who need it for quick conversations or getting a point across in a way that can't be done via text.

While, sure it runs lighter than AIM/Yahoo. Reality is that MSN runs extremely lean itself; while Talk might use less overall RAM this is purely down to the fact of it having less features.

Even with all of the visual enhancements MSN is running, it barely uses double the RAM. Given were talking less than 8MB here, this is hardly anything to be worried about.

Unlike Yahoo and AIM that will both constantly grow until they use all of your RAM because of how they display the messages. Honestly this is just another sub-par effort on Googles part, that will become popular because everyone loves Google.

I honestly can't see what's so amazing about a messenger that has less features than Gaim for crying out loud.

Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 19:27
Raven = jaded plastic pants retailer

Perokreco
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 19:43
Quote: "There is a very big difference between the sleak lines of a Porsche, and the basic functionality of the Yugo. They're not in the same class and they never will be."

Except if you live in places like i do, where 25 years ago nobody could impport a car so everybody had a Yugo
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 20:17
Quote: "Funny thing is, Google actually sucks as search engine. There's lots of articles out there explaining how it works, what the major flaws are etc, in the end it all comes down to marketting."


It's a great search engine. I've tested it against Yahoo, MSN Search (which comes close but isn't superior), and a few other major search engines... Google:

A) Is far faster than any competitor

B) Is better at filtering out the same stuff

C) Has a larger database of results

D) Has the best image search

E) Has the best design with the least ads

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Peter H
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 20:17
Well, i only use google for search (i would use it for e-mail..but i'm to lazy to e-mail everybody and tell them to send their e-mails somewhere else)

and i use it for search because it works loads better for me...i couldn't find a thing with yahoo and their cluttered pages drove me insane...i don't want to know what just happened to the latest celebrity

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 21:43
Some final impressions.

It is an extremely light client. Obviously it'll need to have webcam and file transfer capabilities before most people want to play it. It also doesn't seem to be integrated to Hello and Google Desktop Search at all, which is a rather odd lack of functionality - Google really ought to get their act together with inter-product compatibility.

However as far as I'm concerned it's the best damn thing for text messaging ever designed. The windows manage to be slick and stylish while very minimalistic, and they dock and tile better than any other IM. The RAM footprint and CPU usage is incredibly low even with voice chat. Voice chat is automatic, which is new, and the quality is the best of all the IM services, about on par with Skype.

The strangest thing to me is that it doesn't log conversations. You'd think a company founded around the idea of searching, who pioneered desktop searching (although MSN does it better), would have automatic search of chat logs built in, but it doesn't even remember. Very odd. I'm sure they'll add it before it's out of beta, but it's strange they released the client without it.

Okay. Review over

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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 23:06 Edited at: 24th Aug 2005 23:08
Quote: "The strangest thing to me is that it doesn't log conversations. You'd think a company founded around the idea of searching, who pioneered desktop searching (although MSN does it better), would have automatic search of chat logs built in, but it doesn't even remember. Very odd. I'm sure they'll add it before it's out of beta, but it's strange they released the client without it."


Oh, they're logging them alright.

P.S. What's your google talk addy, Moose?

P.P.S. Nevermind.

David T
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 23:56
Quote: "Bullcrap. It's the only messenger that doesn't require you to have an account with microsoft. You mearly need to link an e-mail with a .NET passport which is a simple case of typing in the e-mail then using the activation e-mail. Your good to go after that.

I've not used a MSN/Hotmail account in what 2-3years now."


I too have a non hotmail/msn address.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Hawkeye
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 23:57
So do I... but then there was the minor problem of getting a .NET passport.

BatVink
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:14 Edited at: 25th Aug 2005 00:17
Sorry raven, but I have to voice my opinion...you really are talking crap this time.

Google Talk isn't just another instant messenger. Google are entering the telecomms industry, this is their platform for VoIP, which will be a subscription based service. So it's closer to Skype than an instant messenger application. It integrates with a handset, and allows you to use the handset like a normal phone.

Google Maps isn't just a copy of Yahoo maps. It's an extraction of Google Earth, which is an educational revolution. I'm a school governor, and I can tell you that it's potential is a major topic of discussion.

Please Raven, don't try and give the impression that you are the fount of all knowledge on everything, you're starting to show yourself up.

Jimmy
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:24
BatVink, normally I would agree with you on this, but I think, this time, Raven has a point. In the very beginning, all Google has done is take old, unoriginal ideas and make them dull, simple and weak. It started with the search engine. Everyone had seen a search engine before. So they make one with less pictures and words. BIG DEAL. Now they take MSN's idea of an instant messenger and do the same thing! Dull. Simple. Weak. I mean, what's next? The Google CAR? Or Google back scratchers? Been done, Google. Been done.

PowerSoft
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:27
Wrong, so the very first operating system should be the one every one uses because its been done before?

C# shouldnt be there because there is C++ already?


Sorry Jim. Dont see your point.

Jimmy
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:29
You don't see it? Or you won't

PowerSoft
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:34
That, is the qustion.

Perokreco
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:44
Google didn't just make search engine with less words and images but also invented search ranking based on links.
Jimmy
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 00:48
They didn't invent that. They stole it from two men from france, living in new mexico. The system was called Page Fromaging.

Hawkeye
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 01:14
I personaly think the main selling point of google talk is the lack of lame smiley icons


Oh and Raven... kindly shut your taco stuffing gas sprouting mouth.

Jimmy
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 01:16
he sprouts teh gaaasss

and teh gaaaass is sprouteeeddd











laaaaaaaaaaaaaa

indi
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 02:07
time to get over who thinks they know what...

i read an article suggesting that google is a, dare i say it... "portal" just like yahoo and others.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
Jeku
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 02:12
Quote: "MSN Search has lost a huge chunk of users because now it's just as ****ing useless to use as Google."


Raven, you really don't know what you're talking about. How is Google useless? I've never had reason to use anything *but* Google for searching--- and that means it's useful to me. And useful for the other millions of people that use it every single day.

You are obviously upset that your favourite company in the world (MS) is losing the search battle.

And another thing--- most people don't use non-MS products because they're not MS-- that's ludicrous. Most people have brains and can think for themselves, so they use whatever is the best tool for them. I prefer GMail to other free accounts, but use my own web host for email. I prefer MS Office to OpenOffice because it's a familiar interface.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Raven
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 05:51
Quote: "You are obviously upset that your favourite company in the world (MS) is losing the search battle."


NEWSFLASH! MSN Search has NEVER been that popular.
What is ticking me off is that everyone is doing the same damn thing.

Oh wow, so Talk has the ability to contact people via audio like Skype. Yeah, try actually using Yahoo or MSN once in a while. Both provide you with the ability to Text Message, Phone, or even Video Phone people. They both had this ability for going on a year now.

The ability in Talk is quite simply a case of an Audio Conversation with other G-mail people.

Honestly I don't care how Google run thier business. What I care about is the fact it's now affecting the aspects of Internet use I enjoy. The 'All-New Microsoft Search' yes it's suppose to be absolutely fantastic and so awesomely good that it could rival Google.

F**K RIVALING THEM. The reason I used to use MSN Search was I could actually find roughly what I was looking for without much effort. With Google and New MSN Search.. I spend 20-30minutes looking for something give-up and wait for someone else who seems to love using search engines to ask them if they can have a quick look for me.

Who gives a flying monkies if Google does have a better search engine, when this means that the rest of the world instantly make generic carbon copies of the technology? What I liked about MSN Search was it WAS NOT some super search engine that provided you with several billion links.

I don't care who can do what better if I can't find what I want. SURELY it's the point of a search engine to actually make it EASIER to find things?

Oh great the entire world seems to find Google much better and easier. Good for you, I don't. I liked my old MSN Search, maybe it didn't have some amazing ad-sense technology to sell me specialised suicide guns after 3 hours of searching for a picture of a freaking mouse that is actually a damn photo... but it does me no good if I can't find that the hell I'm looking for.

This is the exact same reason Linux pisses me off. It's not that Linux does everything better or worse that Windows; it's that over the past 10years Linux has been changing specifically to mimic Windows. Somehow when Linux does this "it's the best thing since sliced bread." ... Microsoft decided to keep Vista relatively the same as XP. This however ends up being a lack of innovation and Microsoft should be shot down because they're adding similar features to what Linux has so obviously Microsoft are the bad company.

Nothing to do with marketing either it's all about the ridiculous bullcrap zealot fanboyism that follows these programs around.
It's not Microsoft therefor it's GOOD. That's bullcrap and anyone with half a brain knows it.

Given these services are all free and run on 'word of mouth' this means that what people are saying about them is extremely important to how popular they become. Despite if they deserve it or not.

Quote: "And another thing--- most people don't use non-MS products because they're not MS-- that's ludicrous. Most people have brains and can think for themselves, so they use whatever is the best tool for them. I prefer GMail to other free accounts, but use my own web host for email. I prefer MS Office to OpenOffice because it's a familiar interface."


Sorry, but wake up and smell the java. You don't even have to go off of these forums to see that people DON'T think for themselves if they can help it. While it would be nice if people could sit down and make informed decisions on what they prefer.. if they did then there would be no 'Blitz3D is better than DarkBASIC Professional' or other crap.

Seriously, ask how many people use G-Mail and why. As soon as G-mail started, I got a ridiculous number of invites... sorry but any e-mail service that is free but isn't open to the public to sign up as they please isn't worth the hassle. All it does is breed that whole barrier of who has friends and who doesn't. So when someone does finally get invited despite how good or bad the service is they're just so plum happy they're accepted.

As far as I'm conserned all of the free e-mail accounts suck. I also don't believe any one e-mail provider is better than the others. It all comes down to personal preference, and if that can't decide it you go with whatever people say is best.

How the hell can anyone explain why AIM is tghe most popular Messenger Client?! Seriously I don't know anyone who ACTUALLY likes using it. Everyone I know is using it because they have friends on it. If everyone actually realised "HEY! No one likes it we should use something else." we might actually make some progress but then this is exactly how Microsoft stay in power with Windows as well.

It's not down to what is better or anything. It's purely down to the fact that people are now dependant. Once they're dependant even if they have the choice to stop that dependancy, they won't becuase it takes more effort to get off than remain on. So the problem compounds until it's too great for anyone to beat.

See, I make my choices based on my experience and what I like more. It's all down to personal preference. That said not everyone works like me, or works like you. Everyone is different, most don't want the effort of thinking.

Again just look around the forums, how many "Is DBP worth it?" posts do you see.

Terabyte
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Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 18:30 Edited at: 25th Aug 2005 18:33
yeah i dunno if anyones mentioned this ii cba to look

but here's some interesting figures i got given today for IM usage.

Quote: "America Online, with its AIM and ICQ brands, counts more than 40 million IM users in the United States alone. Yahoo has around 20 million and Microsoft's MSN Messenger numbers some 14 million users, "


(source - comScore Media Metrix data)

looks like theirs some bitch competition..
Especially as nobody i know personally actually uses AIM.. yet they have the highest ranking due to AOL keeping IM in their mandatory until recently software.

PUTS SKYPE UP SHÉT CREAK WITH NO PADDLE!!
aww..

Dark Days Software
Ian T
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 18:43 Edited at: 25th Aug 2005 18:43
Consider yourself newbie slapped for 24 hours and try to get a hold of your temper. There was absolutely no call for that kind of aggressive flame.

Quote: "In the very beginning, all Google has done is take old, unoriginal ideas and make them dull, simple and weak."


Google doesn't invent, but they do innovate wonderfuly. Their spin on products is almost always superior to competitors because instead of trying to bloat with as many features and ads as possible, they make them minimalistic and effective. And their recent innovations in global information searching really are something to marvel at. As BatVink said, Google Earth is an amazing tool.

If I looking for blog
Terabyte
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 19:44
i love google not just for its awesome appearance.
simply because of it's ability to give me the result i'm searching for no matter how specific. and usually in the first page..
other than google images i very rarely have to turn to page 2.

and they index my site...

Dark Days Software
PowerSoft
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 10th Oct 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 19:46
Whos banned?

Terabyte
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 19:50 Edited at: 25th Aug 2005 19:51
and raven
Quote: "Only who the HELL gets 2GB of e-mail?!
"



me ...
i have 1.5gb
after forwarding all my past emails from other providers to googles wonderfull service.

Dark Days Software
Hawkeye
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 20:19
The reason AIM has a huge share of the market? Well... there's a lot of stupid people in the world

Jimmy
21
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Joined: 20th Aug 2003
Location: Back in the USA
Posted: 25th Aug 2005 20:42
I must confess... I used AIM at one time It was when I was just bursting onto the emo scene. But, I was really just a poser...

Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 26th Aug 2005 11:53
Quote: "As BatVink said, Google Earth is an amazing tool."


Which for the past 6years prior to Google's buy-out was known as Keyhole Earth. What has changed in the software? Purely the addition of depth mapping to allow a 3D model to be constructed.

Now the question is, was this something Google said "Hey you know, let's do this..." or was it a case of Keyhole already working on it?
Given the fact that they had partnered up with NVIDIA back in 2002 to provide a much quicker 3D System within Keyhole Earth; as far as I'm conserned there was no innovation from Google.

They've simply gone and slapped thier name on it. Everyone marvel at the amazement of having so much money they can buy what they choose. It's like Microsoft's X-Box... Everyone except X-Box fans know it is a PC with an X-Box sticker slapped on the side of it.

It uses PC Hardware, it runs Windows 2000... It's a freaking PC. Microsoft didn't invent it, they didn't even innnovate it; They just spent money on it and slapped thier name on the side.

Should we all hail Microsoft's innovation of technology in this field? The only reason it looks so impressive to have Google earth is simply because Keyhole Earth was the ONLY program that did this; they were the only people willing to pay out to provide such a tool. It also wasn't cheap ($200 per year was the basic license). Just because the majority of the world never knew about it never ment it wasn't there prior to Google!

CPU
21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posted: 28th Aug 2005 00:47
Ay but remember to that Microsoft and Google are big freakin companies, and when you have big freakin companies they don’t try to sell the “best” product, but the cheapest product that will sell, that’s why there may be “better” search engines, but Google makes it the simplest and sells it via ads and services.

Keyhole by itself was small because it was so expensive and because no one knew about it. Google saw an opportunity and bought out keyhole, slapped it on the front page, did a little tinkering and wala! they had Google earth. People follow because they don’t want to shell out two hundred bucks to look at the world through a computer screen, but Google I’m guessing makes loads of money off it by simply sticking a few well placed ads on the side.

Its not about what’s better its about what sells, and the person who controls the market like Microsoft did sets the standard, even if it’s a lower one, that everyone else tries to reach, even if it means looking like the standard, simply because that’s what the people expect. And when its what the people expect its what sells, the only main reason other companies are copying is because there trying to sell what people expect, if the didn’t they’d go out of business, and since there trying not to do that, they copy.

I’m not saying these ideas weren’t copied, its because its not about what is the best, its about what sells, what’s the most available, and what is cheapest, that’s about what it all comes down to at the end.


CPU

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BatVink
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 28th Aug 2005 01:02
Quote: "as I'm conserned there was no innovation from Google"


Here we go again.

Did Keyhole make a publically available application, free for the world to use? No.

Did Keyhole enable the world's children to see the world in a different way and relate theory to reality?No.

Did keyhole work out how to provide a credible data collation tool to the world at an affordable price? No.

Did Keyhole realise they could give the world an incredible tool and fund it in ways that directs remuneration from commercial areas, and keeps it free for the masses? No.

Invention and Innovation are 2 completely different things. Most inventors die poor, innovators reap the rewards.

It's no good inventing a sink plug if you hang it from the ceiling.

indi
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 06:01
Quote: "Now they take MSN's idea of an instant messenger and do the same thing!"


'talk' was introduced into unix around the 60's, MSN is hardly the precursor for IM, I had icq before msn was even around iirc.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
Raven
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 30th Aug 2005 14:17
Quote: "Did Keyhole make a publically available application, free for the world to use?"


Yes. (through NVIDIA)

Quote: "Did Keyhole enable the world's children to see the world in a different way and relate theory to reality?"


I don't even know what the hell that means. It's a f***ing map system... what you going to give kids an atlas and suddenly expect them to change thier world view on how the earth works?

People use it to go "Hey look, I can see my house from here!", the only people who don't are companies that can afford to pay big bucks.

Quote: "Did keyhole work out how to provide a credible data collation tool to the world at an affordable price?"


If you bother to read Google's EULA that you agree to by simply using the site, you may NOT use any images you procure for commercial use without a license, and it even has a watermark system to prevent you from using it for such.

Keyhole's pricing scheme conserning commercial use still hasn't changed.

Quote: "Did Keyhole realise they could give the world an incredible tool and fund it in ways that directs remuneration from commercial areas, and keeps it free for the masses?"


In 2002 they partnered with NVIDIA, to provide the special NVIDIA Edition of application that provided users with a 30-Day free period and was $30 to register after that had expired. All that happened after 30-Day were the images became watermarked, you could still piss around as you did before hand.

The ONLY thing that's changed with it moving to Google is there is now no free un-watermark option, and they added 3D height maps. They were actually planned prior to Google taking over Keyhole, so on the whole... what has Google REALLY provided? Simply getting it to the masses.

And what does everyone do with it. "Hey look, I can see my house!"
It's just yet another way for Google to earn revenue through it's Adware; which as I said earlier it's stupid to me that people seem 100% behind a company majoritively Ex-Microsoft, only it in for the money and actually have an active R&D Dept. for comming up with new ways of putting adverts on your computer screen!

You want to know the kicker they were the first people to come up with a solution to Adware/Pop-ups... yet funnily enough it ONLY affects like 90% of everyone else's advertisement. Thier own are completely untouched by it. Go figure.

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