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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DBP UPDATE ????

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Oxygen
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Posted: 20th Feb 2003 16:51
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LOL!!!

You just don't get the whole concept of images taking up RAM.

switch the x=3000:y=3000 to x=300:y=300 and it works fine on my 32MB GeForce 2

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D Man
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Posted: 20th Feb 2003 21:15
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The Code works for me on a GeForce4 Ti 4400.

"If you can't make it good
make it look good."
Bill Gates
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The Darthster
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 00:01
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I don't get any reported errors from creating a 3073 by 3073 bitmap.

For some reason, patch 3.1 has made my version of DBPro worse, now it does sphere mapping at about 2fps previously about 60fps. It won't manage for..next loops with step values, and some other things, I can't remember what. Mostly to do with not accepting commands which ran fine using DBC and the old version of DBPro. Also, for some reason I can't access the values stored in array variables properly, or use the point command, or dot to bitmap 0 without it appearing blurred. Anyone suggest anything? I have an Athlon 2000+ and a 32Mb GeForce2 MX 400.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
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Benny2003
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 00:26
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@Oxygen, if you cant read,then dont answer.

Rich:
Of course it can't - but then when you "create bitmap" in DB/DBPro you're not rendering, you're reserving a place in memory for image data and that can go as high as your physical memory allows and has nothing to do with your graphics card.

@Rest,i´ll post some more bugs i have found later

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 00:40
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@Benny: I'm sorry to say, Oxygen is right. Oxygen can read, and he did answer, although I admit he wasn't very helpful.

Most computers can not handle images that large, it's a hardware limitation, NOT a problem with DBPro. Can I ask what hardware you are running? Specifically your processer and video card. My NVidia RIVA TNT2 64MB (nobody laugh ) can not handle that, but it can handle more reasonably sized images. I stress, it is NOT DBP that is the problem, it is YOUR computer.

DMan's GForce however CAN handle it, because it is superiour to my card. Get it?

Oh, and just a note: The others are right, to make a map you would do it tile based. This means you would draw the tiles, but instead of pre-pasting them into a huge bitmap, you would paste them at run-time inside DB. Allows for motion, larger maps, effects, etc. If you still insist on doing it with premade images, you will have to use smaller images that are divisible by two, and generally are square and not larger than 512x512. Just use multiple images.

Anything I said unclear?

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Kanzure
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 00:56
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The only bugs I get from DB Pro (demo) with no upgrades, is not really bugs at all. They are my programming errors.

I believe I will never run into a bug, because experianced programmers know theres more then 1 way to solve a problem.

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET.
I know HTML, PHP, Perl, JavaScript, VBScript, Visual Basic, C/C++, QBasic, YaBasic, and now Dark Basic/Pro...
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 01:12
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Benny - "Runtime Error 1002 - Bitmap does not exist as line 3"

Your code ran fine for me, it created all 20 bitmaps without problem.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 01:41
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it's all a matter of hardware
That's why Apple computers work so well, EVERYTHING is standard, everything the same.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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Benny2003
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 13:29
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did anybody read what i wrote, i said,
Sometimes it works , and sometimes it fails.

So it can´t be the Hardware.

AMD 1.333Mhz , 512MB Ram , 32MB GF2.

It seems i need to wait for Patch 4 , to get everything running without problems.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 17:20
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It can be other programs taking memory dont forget. Try killing most applications first and see what happens - also try full screen mode too...

Does it fail during the loop or re-running the example after the previous time ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Benny2003
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 19:12
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@MrTAToad

It fails when i try to creat a bitmap like this..



but it runs without problems,when i try this..



Anybody said, the size must divide by 2 , but i tryed several values, and
some values above 3050 work,and others don´t work.

I need this for my 2D RPG Game.
And a other problem, it takes very long,to load a bitmap,
i tryed every format like png / bmp / jpg
but nothing happens,it always take very long to load a bitmap.

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IanM
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Posted: 21st Feb 2003 20:13
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All cards have an upper limit on the size of surface you can allocate, just like they have an upper limit on the size of a texture. Some have other constraints, like they must be a power of 2. That's why everyone is getting such varied results.

Also, there are other things that no-one has yet mentioned. Memory is allocated within the display in the same way as memory was allocated in the old DOS days - as immovable blocks (pre memory management).

Here's a crude example to explain:
(The state of memory is shown after each step - 0 = 8MB free block, 1 = 8MB allocated block)
32MB available on the Video card. (0000)
Allocate 8MB for one surface. (1000)
Allocate 16 MB for another surface. (1110)
Free the first surface. (0110)

Result:
Available memory : 16MB (two free blocks)
Maximum surface size : 8MB (they must be contiguous to be used together)

That's just a simple example. The reality is much more complex. This is not a bug in DBPro, it is a feature of DirectX.

Also remember that your DBPro program is not the only thing using the display memory even when you seem to have no other programs running.

As for the bitmap loading speed, display memory access was never fast.

I'm going to suggest (the same as everyone else) that you use a tiling system instead of a single oversized bitmap.
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Benny2003
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 00:19
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Hello, everybody reading what i wrote ????

The reason can´t be the Video Ram,because
values of 3073,3073 dont work but 3074,3074 work.

As for the bitmap loading speed, display memory access was never fast.
But if i load a Image with Dark Basic 1 , it runs very fast.

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Oxygen
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 00:37
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No I can't read. Sorry. :/

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 01:44
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"Hello, everybody reading what i wrote ????

The reason can´t be the Video Ram,because
values of 3073,3073 dont work but 3074,3074 work."


OMG! You are the one who isn't reading. The REASON 3073,3073 does NOT work, is because 3073 is NOT divisable evenly by two. 3074 IS divisable by two, and therefore is a valid bitmap size. You have the memory required to make a bitmap that large, but the bitmap size HAS to be divisible by two. Do you understand?

"As for the bitmap loading speed, display memory access was never fast.
But if i load a Image with Dark Basic 1 , it runs very fast."

IT does run fast yes, a lot faster than we can think BUT it is RELATIVLY slow, it's just not slow enough for us to be able to notice.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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IanM
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 01:55
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Basically Benny2003, accept the limitations of your graphics card/drivers/DirectX because there is not a lot you or DBS can do about it.

You may need a PLAY AREA that large, but you don't need to do it using ONE BITMAP. Putting together a tiling system is easy enough, even for such an odd size as 3073x3073.

If you had started to do this after you first posted, you would have completed it by now.
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Benny2003
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 20:33
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that´s really crap, i wrote ..

"Anybody said, the size must divide by 2 , but i tryed several values, and
some values above 3050 work,and others don´t work."

This means,

3073x3073 Wont work,
3074x3074 Work
3075x3075 Work
3076x3076 Wont Work
...
and so on.

And this can´t be the problem with the ram.

@rapscaLLion, so,first read what i have wrote,and then answer.

This is too dumb,everybody without somebody who wants to help.
i think i´m waiting the few days for Patch 4.

Bye

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 21:37
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Bet you it wont fix the 'problem'...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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IanM
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 22:24
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I'd take that bet, but I don't want to lose my money

Several points here:
1) It CAN be a problem with available video memory
2) It CAN be a limitation of your drivers
3) It CAN be a limitation of DirectX
4) Patch 4 will probably NOT be out in a few days.
5) We do want to help, but you appear to not want to listen or find a work-around.
6) ... Stuff it, I can't be bothered anymore.
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Astucia
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 23:03
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Ok, Patch 4.0 beta.
Why for DBND users only?. every body know the risk form a beta, don't you?
I have a new bug:
I make a new project, and the adress in my pc for that project is C:\...\Dark Basic Software\Dark Basic Professional\Projects\Meteors.
and I create a Media folder in the Meteors folder project.
when I try to add a new cursor from Media folder, ther is an Error: Can not open Media\mycur.bmp.
and, when I want to use a new mouse icon added to Cursors in project manager these not apear in the screen when I run the code.

Ok, here isn't the forum topic to help me whit these problem (there is the topic in her place). My point is:
Cursors (Mouse icon) is some new from DB Pro and not work (at least to me).
I'm still waiting the Patch 4.0 and it envies it corrodes to me, because some have access to and other no. He is not easy to obtain the DB pro from Mexico, and the impotence that feels of which it does not work correctly, is much.
The forums is a very good help, but when the English is'nt you're Languaje, is very sad .
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 03:44
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yeah i thought so...
sometimes i wonder - i mean this seems like someone is set on using one possible approach to his problem, and belie the actually possible solutions.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 08:02
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Astucia: Next time try making your own post, as yours is off topic, thanks. Also, if your having trouble with the language, post in english AND in your native language, chances are, someone else here speaks it

@Benny:

"that´s really crap, i wrote ..

"Anybody said, the size must divide by 2 , but i tryed several values, and
some values above 3050 work,and others don´t work."

This means,

3073x3073 Wont work,
3074x3074 Work
3075x3075 Work
3076x3076 Wont Work
...
and so on."

I'm sorry, you werent very clear, from what your post said, it was still the same old divisible by two problem. Next time try more examples, like in some of your previous posts, just so everyone understands right.

"And this can´t be the problem with the ram.

@rapscaLLion, so,first read what i have wrote,and then answer."

That's kinda rude... we are only trying to help!

"This is too dumb,everybody without somebody who wants to help."

That is also kinda rude...

"i think i´m waiting the few days for Patch 4."

LOL, patch 4 is not coming out in a couple days! We were told it would be out before 2003. Then it was to be out before February. What you do is add six months to ANY DBS release date, and you can assume (it's a 50/50 chance) that it will be out in that time.


Anyhow, if it's not the div/2 problem, I don't know what it is BUT:

THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO CREATE A BITMAP THAT LARGE!!!

Most computers will NEVER be able to run a bitmap that large, that IS NOT DBP's fault!!!
There are many many ways to create maps, making one huge bitmap is NOT one of them I recommend. If you want to know how to make a proper map, ask, we'll help you.

We REALLY are trying to help, but you are either: Not understanding us, not listening to us, or you just want to piss us off/insult DB.

Please STOP trying to make such a large bitmap, there is no need!

ALSO: You said bitmap loading is slow, can you provide us with the following info:

-What are your computer specs?
-How big is the image you are trying to load? Because if you are trying to load a 3000x3000 bitmap I swear I am going to slap someone... considering my brother is close by it will probably be him

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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