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Geek Culture / FAR Better than PSP, and you can make your own commercial 3d games for it!

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Sep 2005 10:47
Quote: "Not particularly. People were saying out-right that the Revolution controller was uncomfortable and horrible, I don't remember many people saying it "LOOKED" (the keyword in what I said) uncomfortable."


If you use your brain, obviously nobody here has picked up the Revolution controller, so obviously we were stating how it looked.

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Sep 2005 11:01
Quote: "Given what you would think the target audience is it's strange the site selling them is so short of info."

Indeed - it makes you wonder whether those that will be released are a sort of test run...

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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lagmaster
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Posted: 27th Sep 2005 15:27
got the gp32 yesterday, wow im amazed at how good it is. got a cd full of games and the devkit to boot. just need a bigger smartmedia memory card now (512mb or 1gb).

lagmaster - irc.devhat.net <--
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 27th Sep 2005 15:41 Edited at: 27th Sep 2005 15:42
Let me know if you find one - I can only find stockists for 64 & 128mb Smart media Other flash cards go way higher, but maybe smart media don't - or I'm just looking in the wrong places...

"I find the GameBoy SP, PSP, Lynx and GameGear extremely uncomfortable, the last 2 in particular are far too heavy for me personally to use for more than a few minutes and that's what this reminds me of."

The Lynx & GameGear were very chunky, yes... probably down to the technology being a little ahead of its time and not really suitable for pocket sized gaming. However personally I love the Game Gear & Lynx II, so long as you play them in your lap or resting on something as they can be heavy after a while. The Lynx 1 however is a monstrosity and should never have been released, not surprised thy replaced it so quickly.

If you find the PSP uncomfortable then you will find this unconfortable, to me it looks very similar is size, shape and weight if you filled in the missing quare corners of the psp... personally I find the psp fine to use, but I haven't for any long period of time. I LOOOVE the SP but am aware most people don't lol. But if you like the GBA, why not the psp, they are very similar shape & width as far as I remember? (I sold mine after a month because the lack of backlight and over reflective screen drove me mad when travelling with it)

hotron
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 14:06
*slaps the topic back into life*
looks good, real good,looks awsome, heaps awsome. ok, is it availble in australia or only europe?

hotron entertainment
re faze
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 06:06 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 06:08
i gota a ti 83+ se and they dont make them anymore, and its overclocked B'otch! so put that in your pipe and smoke it!
One part of my mind is saying "GET IT YA STUPID!" and the other part is saying "WHAT ARE YOU STUPID ITS NOT REAL!" it looks too good to be true

[edit]
went to the site, and it seems to indeed be real.

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 14:10
Got to start writing a decent game for the PC before I can think about writing software for a completely different OS

£124 is rather steep unfortunately - hope they put on some more videos soon - want to see what the SDK stuff you get is (and to see some games in action).

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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David T
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 14:23
Quote: "......no one uses AA anymore "


My mouse does

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:11
"is it availble in australia or only europe?"

They are actually designed and made in Korea - the site I posted is just the official distributors for britain and Europe. However they do deliver all around the world, just email them

I think 125 quid is very reasonable considering the price of the PSP and DS, and especially as these are really just made by amateur enthusiasts... the GP32 only sold like 150,000 units the owrld over, which is comparitively nothing....

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:29
I'm a real tightwad - trying to get my parents to use Skype intead of phoning me, to save money...

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 15:51
lol fair enough I tend to spend TOO much money on things especially gadgets if I believe they are cool enough - as I type I'm sat in my own stupidly expensive recording studio which I hardly use half the equipment in, wearing a Rolex which cost much more than any sane human being should pay for a watch, with a mobile phone that can record and play video clips etc that I only actually use for text messages - um I could go on for hours. We won't even mention my AIBO... lol I waste money I have to try not to as much nowadays tho, as I have kids

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 16:05
A gadget junkie, eh ?

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 16:26
Yes, when I think they are good. For eaxmple I am yet to buy a PSP, didn't buy a PS2 till they released a game I thought showed it off, and I returned my IPOD because I felt it was badly made & prone to faults - I always try and find things which I personally like, not necessarily what is fashionable I'm weird like that

Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 17:55
Quote: "I think 125 quid is very reasonable considering the price of the PSP and DS, and especially as these are really just made by amateur enthusiasts... the GP32 only sold like 150,000 units the owrld over, which is comparitively nothing...."


Nintendo DS costs £99.99 (solo) $119.99 (w/mariods or nintendogs)
At least at Game it does anyways.

So to sell at a price higher than the big names probably isn't a good idea in terms of generating sales. I think really if they wanted to generate sales what they need to do is get a few developers who can work on stuff for them that will look good.

Quake is nice, but it's like 1994 technology. It's far too old, and not uniqué to them.

What they want to do is make a deal with someone like Valve and get Half-Life 2 converted to it. Obviously it won't be quite *as* good as the PC version (heh) but it'll be big name, and that's what makes punters part with thier cash.

I'm still standing by the whole, 'bad idea not using a gpu' thing.

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:06
Yes I do agree with you on that - it would have upped the price, but possibly not by more than 20 pounds with certain good options you pointed out before

The fact that this is more expensive than the DS shouldn't be a surprise, given the large screen, and its still comparable in price, especially as the vast majority of games and sofwtare will be free, and you'd have to buy extras for the DS to make it play media files.

If you compare this to the price of most portable video players (400 quid!) this compares very favourably - especially when the screen is infinitley better than any of the creative meodels I've seen so far

Blue Shadow
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:27
Hey guys,

If anyone owns a GP32 or GP2x then could they post some photos/quick review of their experiences with the product.

Thanks
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:30 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2005 19:30
How much do you suppose it would cost to ship to Canada?


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:32
the gp2x didn't ship yet Code monkey.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Blue Shadow
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 19:39
Oh, my mistake. Just saw the buy now link on the website and assumed it was ready for release. Would still be really interested if someone could post a review/photos of the GP32 though. Lagmaster? I saw that you've bought one so I would be really keen to speak to you about it.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 20:21
I have a gp32 and its awesome. The only main problem is you can only use memory cards up to 128mb. Other than that its got no real restrictions, plays mp3s & divx really well, I also use it for playing old DOS Games, Quake, Doom, Megadrive/Genesis, SNES, PC Engine... and plenty more homebrew stuff

I ALWAYS carry around portable Sam & Max, Day of the Tentacle, Doom, Quake, Theme Park, Worms, Sonic 1&2, SMB3, Super Mario World, R-Type, Out Run, Chrono Trigger & Fantastic Dizzy

Developing for it is quite simple, and there are large community websites to help with everything from getting it started to making a full game.

The only thing I'd say is get a GP32 BLU (back lit unit) the frontlit one (FLU) wasn't as good and the GP32 is not backlit. a 2nd hand boxed GP32 BLU should set you back about 50 quid on ebay including a memory card, USB Cable, and a CD full of drivers, games, emulators and utilities

That said the new one looks even better, being even more powerful, even easier to develop for, and having much larger memory, both in RAM and removable storage. 150 quid with 1gb card sounds like a frickin bargain to me

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 20:23
What kinda games do you think the gp2x will be able to run? (PC)

Anything before Quake 2? Or maybe something like Halflife...Diablo etc


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PiratSS
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:25
I would be amazed if it can run Diablo 1/Halflife at full speed

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:31
Nah I reckon it easily could, look at the spec!

Quake 2 has already been unofficially ported to the new system as have many PC games. However the only way to legally do this is if the game source code becomes publicly available, ie thats why DOOM, Quake and ROTT are easy to find, but Duke3d isn't, although I believ somebody has ported it, they aren't allowed to advertise it...

That said there are a lot of DOS and win95 emulators being written, which would then run lots of older games such as these.

I'm looking forward to being able to run the larger MAME and NEOGEO games in the new ammount of ram (the old gp32 could only load 8mb maximum filesize at once for emus)

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:37
Have you preordered it ??

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:39
Wait, are you saying the source code has to be publicly availaible?

Won't a Win95 emulator slow down the performance of all PC games being played on it? I mean, it might be hard enough running them on those specs as it is, let alone some emulator chugging in the background.

And here I was with a hopefull Christmas in mind.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Raven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:43
Half-Life source isn't publically available, but you can get the source version quite easily. If you know where to look.

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2005 23:46
U dont have it. Sorry u need to go download gmaes factory then

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 00:14 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2005 00:15
" Have you preordered it ??"
No but I reeeeally want to. But I'm reinvesting all my spare cash in my business at the moemt. Will probabyl buy myslef one come xmas time ifg I haven't already

"Wait, are you saying the source code has to be publicly availaible?"

For it to be legally re-compiled, yes. But lots of more "underground" projects are done decompiling and recompiling non publiclaly available games As Raven says Halflife source code is readily available if you search hard enough so I'm sure this will be ported very quickly, if not widely advertised

"Won't a Win95 emulator slow down the performance of all PC games being played on it?"

Yes it would. But thats not to say they'd be unplayable - it just depends how complex the game was to emulate and if the emulator was written specifically for that game. Ie my Sam & Max emulator was written especially to run that game, and it works flawlessly at a stupidly high framerate - and thats on my much lower specced system

Realistically most old games that have trouble running on XP have emulators or startup programs written for them for pc, most of those are open source, so anything like that could be run on the gp2x easily. Also don't forget that the gp2x can run linux and Win95 by itself anyway so many games might just run through them We'll have to wait and see though the console isn't even quite out yet

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 00:26
gp2x can run win95? So we can delete the re-installed Linux and run that instead+gameS?


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 01:18
Yes, reportedly. (It might even run 98, which would be great!) I don't know how perfectly it runs though I just read some forum threads from early tests saying they got it working

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 02:00
Hey I just had a search around and found there's actually a version of Halflife for the gp32!! Although it appears to be a mod of Doom II so not sure how accurate it'd be - I'll hceck it out tomorrow when I have time There is also a proper version of HL coming out for the gp2x according to many forum threads I've found

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 02:12
If I find out your lying, I'm gona do everything in my power to legalize kangaroo hunting in Australia.

*goes to gp2x forums*


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Raven
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 02:26
Won't do any good... he's a British Kangaroo

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 02:28
It doesn't matter. I wouldn't wanna see cats harmed in Korea, he wouldn't wanna see kangaroos get clubbed to death in Australia.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 15:48 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2005 16:58
lol I'll try and find the forum / newspost for you

EDIT: Windows 95 CAN be run but so far only through DOSBOX Ie Linux -> Dos emulator -> install Windows... I imagine that would be very slow for running games though. I remember seeing something similar on the psp that only ran at about 10fps lol

However a search and translate of the korean and dev sections of the sites reveal the following quote: "since the GP2X can boot from SD cards, theoretically the GP2X could run any OS adapted for it". I would imagine that it won't be too long before we see a version of windows, I have read of many developpers trying to port dos, windows and even amiga 1200 os to it - however these are only threads about people "trying" or "planning to" - a case of wait and see I reckon, its still early days.

I found this quote on the Spanish forum (babelfished)
"a PC emulator is possible. Bochs is very slow because it translates instruction to instruction, but is another project for linux much working but fast, that temporarily keeps the sequences from translated instructions I reach a very good performance
qemu (http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/)"

Many people have got Win95 and dso workingbut at VERY slow framerates, and claim its impossible to do any more. a few people claim there are other ways to do it faster. apparatnly Win 95 at the moment takes about 15-20mins to boot though lol oh well we'll see if it happens. In most cases if a game is popular enough it'll be ported to Linux, and then its a lot easier to get iot running with better framerates

Unfortunatley two negative peices of information I found out searching, not sure how I missed them before,

1. the gp2x will NOT be backwardly compatible with gp32 software (although most of that is open source so it won't be long beofre its all ported) but in a way this is positive as emulators and games can be written specifically take advantage of the new spec.

2. the gp2x does NOT have an analogue stick as such, it actually has 12 sensors to simulate analogue with 24 directions.

BIG News: It seems I was slightly confused. The GP2X is not the only sucessor to the GP32 coming out, there is another console due late 2006 called the XGP which has a 3d accelerator and can already run Quake 3 engine perfectly

Apparantly the team who made the original gp32 split into 2 teams and built a console each. The GP2x aimed mostly at homebrew, and emulators, the XGP aimed at developing commercial games to rival the PSP. The XGP will ship with a SDK just like the GP2X but will be more focused at building commercial games, not homebrew. I'll most probably buy both, they both look awesome and I think its important to support such independant ventures

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 16:19 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2005 16:19
Better do it Quikly... Boom boom!

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 16:40 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2005 16:42
lol I wish Basil brush was as cool as he used to be, the new ones suck

Woah check this out! A Quake 2 style development area for the GP32! This is awesome! This isn't even GP2X this is the original, those graphics are sweeet

http://www.angelsoftware.org/index.php?2005/10/02/97-yeti-3d---pro-version





lagmaster
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 16:50
neat, i'm sooo getting a 512mb sm card for this so i can play all these games. only got 16mb's with the gp32. and yes there is halflife for doom. halflife.wad 20mb.

lagmaster - irc.devhat.net <--
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Raven
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 16:55
Getting Half-Life / Quake 2 / etc shouldn't be much of a challenge given the GPU. As there are 2, you can use one as a GPU and one as a CPU. Alright it won't be *as* good as using a dedicated chip, but because they're RISC it shouldn't be that different.

ARM are very good at FP Math, so it shouldn't pose a problem. The multimedia extensions allow them to render reasonable colour ranges. So creating an OpenGL wrapper driver to take advantage of this shouldn't be too difficult.

Still the fact the SDK is designed to work through Linux rather than access the hardware directly will kill some of the speed you can achieve.

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Lagmaster - I'm afraid the GP32 consoles don't support card bigger than 128mb. However these are really cheap so you can buy a load, its not as if they take much space

"Getting Half-Life / Quake 2 / etc shouldn't be much of a challenge given the GPU. As there are 2, you can use one as a GPU and one as a CPU. Alright it won't be *as* good as using a dedicated chip, but because they're RISC it shouldn't be that different." Yes thats what I figured Also did you notice I posted they are also making a versio late next year with a dedicated 3d GPU that can run Q3 eaily

"Still the fact the SDK is designed to work through Linux rather than access the hardware directly will kill some of the speed you can achieve." - not entirely : "GP2X is Linux based. This does NOT mean you must use Linux on your PC to interface with your GPX2. Also, since the GP2X can boot from SD cards, theoretically the GP2X could run any OS adapted for it, or even no specific OS at all (i.e. simple bootstrap to directly access hardware). The firmware is flashable, so your GP2X can easily be updated." Quote from the Gamepark site

Raven
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 17:17
Yeah, but they don't provide the support past the technical.
It's a backward step compared to the other handheld developers.

soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 19:53
Sorry if this has already been answered (didn't see it anywhere) and it might seem like a stupid question but would I be able to run something developed for the GP32 on the GP2X? Thanks in advance.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
*fails*
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 20:09 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2005 20:38
"the gp2x will NOT be backwardly compatible with gp32 software (although most of that is open source so it won't be long before its all ported) but in a way this is positive as emulators and games can be written specifically take advantage of the new spec."

I've just tried out the Halflife for gp32 is a surprisingly faithful reproduction of the first level after the train, but as far as I can work out you can't talk to anybody do it plays more like Doom in HL Levels... still quite funky tho, but like I said proper HL should be available for the newer GP consoles soon

Played the Q2 style engine that I posted above, its frankly stunning it also comes with a dev kit to make games for it, if I had more time I'd love to makes something with it - although I'd prefer to work for the new consoles, but this engine shows the GP32 is far from dead, its an amazing demo, more on a par with Quake 2 graphics but runs better than quake 1! Really amazing what they've put together there

soapyfish
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 22:27
Quote: "the gp2x will NOT be backwardly compatible with gp32 software "


Nnnnoooooo, I was just about to the post that the more and more I here about this the more and more I want one but now I won't be able to use any of the massive library of gp32 stuff on it.

I don't suppose there's any chance of someone making a gp32 emulator for the gp2x.

Ah well, I suppose I could still get the gp2x and just be patient, or even write some games for it myself.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
*fails*
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 22:46
"I don't suppose there's any chance of someone making a gp32 emulator for the gp2x."
Hehe that would be close to impossible I'm afraid. But like I said the vast majority of stuff will be ported almost straight away, as its all open source Of course the gp2x will come with built in media players etc and will probabyl come with some games & emus too

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 22:50
Do emulators like Sega Genesis have to be ported first, or will you just be able to upload them over quickly?


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2005 23:13
I don't know about the gp2x, it may just run linux emulators. If its like the gp32 though they'll need their own fxe instead of exe file. Obviously people will very quickly re-compile open source emulators

Its really easy on my gp32, just stick youir usb cable in and drag and drop rom files onto the card

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Oct 2005 00:48
Noticed they seem to be rather vague about a release date (especially after the initial batch).

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Blue Shadow
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Posted: 4th Oct 2005 20:40 Edited at: 4th Oct 2005 20:41
Here is a link that some of you may find interesting.

http://www.gp32x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,2

It has loads of magazines on the topic of the GP32. Navigating round the site will also show many more resources for the GP32.

The GPZine Magazines are particularly good.

Hope this helps
soapyfish
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Posted: 4th Oct 2005 23:03 Edited at: 4th Oct 2005 23:04
@Code Monkey
Thanks

p.s. Long time no see, here's hoping it's not too long before Jungle Jim's finished.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
*fails*

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