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Geek Culture / Suprise! Microsoft is being nice for once:O

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 16:42
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What is ?

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 16:44
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Quote: "It's not nice. It's called saturating the expertese pool with people only skilled in microsoft products.

They're investing for the future. Free stuff for you now means a bigger monopoly for them in the future."

That is. Saturating the market. Microsoft VS.net 05 express rocks, and everyone agrees (unless you cant program in it..)

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 16:48
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It wouldn't be if Borland got their finger out and did a compiler that could use MS .Lib files...

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 16:50
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haha. Your just mad...

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 16:54
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Borland compilers were very good - unfortunately Microsoft stopped converting DirectX libraries ages ago...

And I dont think Borland complained much either...

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 17:02
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It pays to have cash

i dont want to spend $300 on something I will use twice though

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:18
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what exactally is stopping it working with the dgsdk? I see nothing in the product compare that would say any of the versions wouldnt work with it - more to the point if it doesnt work with express i can see no reason (going by the feature sheets) taht the commercial ones WILL.

Isnt it more likely that tgc are going to have to build a 2005 version like they already have a vc6 and vc7 one? I very much doubt any of the 2005 editions, express or pro, will support dgsdk out of the box.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:20
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So does anyone know if the web developer one works with PHP and MySQL?

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John Y
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:34
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Have you guys noticed how the installers work by downloading files from the microsoft server for installation. Just make sure you don't have to reinstall after the download deadline passes


Http://synergyide.thegamecreators.com
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:35
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Quote: "So does anyone know if the web developer one works with PHP and MySQL?"


Probably not seeing as the M$ offering is ASP and SQL Server

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:35 Edited at: 8th Nov 2005 18:37
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Its LIBC.LIB - you dont get it with the Platform SDK.
Then there is DirectX 8...

Quote: "Isnt it more likely that tgc are going to have to build a 2005 version like they already have a vc6 and vc7 one?"

Shouldn't need to - its just a matter of the fact that some library files aren't availiable for the free version.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 18:49
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Quote: " Have you guys noticed how the installers work by downloading files from the microsoft server for installation. Just make sure you don't have to reinstall after the download deadline passes "


thats the "easy express install". If you look down some more you will see some links to .img cd isos of each of the vs products, about 450megs each, ready for direct burning to a cd

Quote: " Its LIBC.LIB - you dont get it with the Platform SDK.
Then there is DirectX 8...

Quote: "Isnt it more likely that tgc are going to have to build a 2005 version like they already have a vc6 and vc7 one?"
Shouldn't need to - its just a matter of the fact that some library files aren't availiable for the free version."


*goes to read the express feature page to double check something..*

okay, here it specifically talks about the ability to add 3rd party libaries.

but the important one, here talks about the new C libary with safer functions. Possiable darksdk has to be compiled to use this?

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 19:31 Edited at: 8th Nov 2005 19:32
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Quote: "They're investing for the future. Free stuff for you now means a bigger monopoly for them in the future."


That's ok! I would be happy with more companies offering free warez. Even if we get used to the software, then it's in their best interest. Nonetheless, everyone in the industry uses Visual Studio now anyways -- and anyone who has used it seriously knows it's clearly the best. Getting hooked on the best IDE isn't all that bad.

Dev C++ is free too, so they should theoretically hook people with their software as well. All's fair in love and war

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 19:42 Edited at: 8th Nov 2005 19:44
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Quote: "but the important one, here talks about the new C libary with safer functions. Possiable darksdk has to be compiled to use this?"

Shoudn't need to - just needs a LIBC and all the DirectX 8 stuff - which, even if you download, probably wont be compatiable... I suspect the Standard version upwards will be fine...

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 19:50
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So what is the main difference between this and the commercial products?

What features are disabled?


Regards,
Rich

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CJB
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 19:59
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Cool! So I can use Visual Studio legitimately now!

Downloading those .img files now... (wow! my dl speed is looking GOOD!)

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Jeku
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 22:35
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@Powersoft - It's already been said in this thread how to find the differences. There's a nifty chart on the MS site, which the post had a link to (I'm too lazy to find it). The major differences are things that 99% of hobbyists wouldn't use anyways.

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Data
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 23:25
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nice

Money isn't everything.... You need something to spend it on.
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Antidote
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 23:42
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OK. Can you only access Visual C++ from the start menu? I tried to find the exectuable but could not. To clarify I also did in fact install it with the setup. If you can only get to it with the start menu that sucks because my desktop doesn't work. Also don't tell me to run explorer.exe because it doesn't work. All is does is open up windows explorer.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=63573&b=5
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Neofish
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Posted: 8th Nov 2005 23:51
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im not installing SP2 so i guess i wont be using it :\

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JoelJ
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 01:18
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Quote: "Have you guys noticed how the installers work by downloading files from the microsoft server for installation. Just make sure you don't have to reinstall after the download deadline passes "

you'll be able to download this program for a long time, it's shareware, you put in your legal reg code, and POP, it won't tell you to register anymore,
i'm sure we won't have that problem.

Quote: "It's not nice. It's called saturating the expertese pool with people only skilled in microsoft products.

They're investing for the future. Free stuff for you now means a bigger monopoly for them in the future.
"

oh bah, stop your bloody anti-MS bull.
I'll use what I like, there are PLENTY of alternitive IDEs out there.
yeah, they might not support .net 2.0 YET, because .net is MS' and they're going to be the FIRST to get ides out for it.


46,458 Words remaining
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 01:26
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Quote: "im not installing SP2 so i guess i wont be using it"


Are you mad! I love sp2

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 03:14
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I need to restart my pc, but I will add all the links to the first post soon. Just to clarify, if any one DOES buy 2005, tell me what it is like. I am really into mobile phone and pocket PC dev.

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Antidote
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 04:13
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Can someone please tell me the directory for visual c++ is under. I can't find it and it's not like I can get to my start menu since my desktop doesn't work.


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 04:21
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Hmm...I might stop in DBP soon. VB.net 2003 drove me away with its un-friendly IDE. This thing looks SOOOO much better

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 05:22
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@Antidote - Here's the path:

c:\program files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\Common7\IDE\VCExpress.exe

Good luck!

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 09:25
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Quote: "Can someone please tell me the directory for visual c++ is under. I can't find it and it's not like I can get to my start menu since my desktop doesn't work."

Re-install Windows - if your desktop 'aint working - what will ?

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Antidote
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 16:13
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Everything works except the desktop. I just have to use the task manager to create new tasks.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 16:34
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dear lord man - reinstall windows while you can! That sounds like windows is on its last legs. While you can - backup all your work, favourites and p0rn and get a clean install back on there. Windows isn't the most stable OS at the best of times...

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 16:42
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Quote: "Everything works except the desktop."

Very Lucky!. As we keep on saying, re-install Windows. If I were you, get a new hard drive to install it on... And install 2000 or XP. Not 98, not Me, nor 95 and certainly NOT 3.11. Linux is fine if you dont want to use DBPro... Or play the latest games...

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 17:02
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And since this is my topic, .Net languages (latest)

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 17:05
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I do think more effort should be made in schools to teach computer programming. Would be better than playing games all weekend...

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 17:12
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haha, yah. News to all those liking VB.net: Switch to C sharp, or C#. MSDN has far more support for C# than VB. Teh ub0r truth. It really is nicer, and sooo many people on this forum use it. They have the same interface, and the code is close. You shouldnt have trouble getting it (free), so what is stopping you? Using vb 6, and dont want to leave VB to teh ashes? Well, it is a dying language. C# all the way.

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 17:42
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Quote: "If I were you, get a new hard drive to install it on"




This is going pretty nice. I managed to get GameBasic to work in the new version, and the new VS has a .NET webbrowser tool, so there doesn't seem to be any phantom crashes. Anyone want to test it out on their comp's?

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 17:43
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go on then! If you must

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Jeku
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Posted: 9th Nov 2005 19:18
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Alright, here goes This is a VERY rough version, and I haven't updated the core code since April.

You MUST read the welcome screen that appears when you run the program. There are a few sample games, and you have to press 'Q' to get out of Space Shooter. There's no other way out

Have fun. If it works for you guys then I'll create a new thread about it in the Programmer's Chat.

I apologize for the speed when editing a large game (like Space Shooter). To speed things up you can minimize the Variable trees.

http://www.jeku.com/temp/GameBasic.zip

Have fun!

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 01:03
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cool! It looks like my thrad got taken over. Nice Language Jeku! It is much better than C. (Sorry if you take that unkindly, but thats the only thing I know that it is nicer than:-()

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:06
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Cool, thanks Jr Noober. My biggest reason for posting this here was to see if it could run on anyone else's machine--- when I compiled this under VS.NET 2003 using crappy ActiveX controls, nobody could run it. Sorry if this is hijacking--- but I figured we're still technically talking about the great gift from MS

I'm excited to work on GameBasic again, that's for sure!

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Antidote
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:15
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Quote: "C# all the way."


I disagree C++ all the way.


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:16 Edited at: 10th Nov 2005 03:22
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nope

(sorry of size )

edit: C++ is actually only used for professional apps now adays. Many times, games will be produced in C#. C++ may have many libraries, but C# is sleeker code, and much better overall.

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:19 Edited at: 10th Nov 2005 03:22
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Right Photo Sorry

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:20 Edited at: 10th Nov 2005 03:23
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Above has right photo, and above does as well..sorry for triple posting.

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Antidote
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:25
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Anyway. I just figured out the directory for the IDE but how do I compile in it? Is there no built in compiler with this???


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:29
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Ok, look for it....It is probably in Bin, or lib, or VC packages.

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Antidote
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Cannot find anything. Anyone else have any ideas


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:45
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tada!
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\Common7\IDE\VCExpress.exe

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 03:50
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Jr Noober -- Ahh, I see you got it working Thanks! I'm going to work on the Tree control flicker side-effect with large files.

But I disagree a bit about the debate between C++ and C#. The large game companies are still using C++, because it does have the speed advantage over C#. But that will soon change because C# is frickin' fast. It might also be a matter of not wanting to update legacy code. I mean, if you're EA and you release a hockey game every year from C++, do you really want to spend a year converting the C++ code over? The structure is entirely different from language to language.

But if I were to write a new application nowadays, with the speed of computers that most people have, I'd definitely go with C#

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Undercover Steve
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Thats what I was trying to say. They write games in C#. Not update. If I had a choice of upgrading a 400000 asp 1.0 doc to a PHP, or just making really good adjustments to it..I would choose teh latter.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 05:39
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There is also the small fact that c++ is portable and c# isnt to any great extent. Most of the big games end up with a linux port or whatever.

Also, I find very little about requiring the .net runtime to be sleek or nice in any way.

DarkSDK/WinAPI Tutorial
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Undercover Steve
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But the future is .NET to most extent.

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