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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / can nintendo sue me?

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cycloid gamma
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 05:32
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i am almost finished with a 2d scrolling game engine and my first game is going to be a new episode of the super nintendo METROID 3. But i dont know if i can get sued for doing this. i am planing on releasing the code and the media
and i am not planing on charging for it. if anybody has info. [img][/img]
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 05:43
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ONLY if you sell it for money. Otherwise, you are NOT liable in any way.

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cycloid gamma
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 06:12
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yeah i am planing on distribute it for free

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Pyro
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 06:20
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I am not quite sure QuothTheRaven, Why would then websites prohibit the distribution of their content even if it is for free? I am not expert on the topic, but i think you would have to see how Nintendo Copyright works...

"The ideas are in your head, you just gotta work like a dog and put them into code"
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 11:51
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If the media isn't ripped from the SNES and the code is your own and the graphics don't look like they resemble Metroid then you're safe. If it looks and sounds like Metroid but is just written in DB then yes you're liable (wether you sell it or not). To be honest though unless this hits the headlines of gamespot.com or something the chances of them ever finding it are rather slim.

Remember companies own copyright on the characters and all likenesses thereof, as well as the original games themselves.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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UberTuba
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 15:37
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Just don't call it metroid

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You never survive it.
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the_winch
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 16:05
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I think before they sued you their legal people would write to you and tell you to remove the material that they own copyright.

Not being stupid you would obviously remove it from your website change the stuff they didn't like and put it back up again

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Galiem
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 16:59
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If you want to avoid trouble for certain, then simply change a few skins, alter the models slightly, and release it under a different name. For the most part, however, you probably don't need to worry.

Under the Fair Use Act of 1979, you may use copyrighted matierial, as long as you don't do certain things. The biggest of which is make money off of it. I just wouldn't expect the DB folks to put it on their site if you release it as-is.

The people at http://www.nuklearpower.com/index.php may be able to help ya some. At that site, there is a web comic based on the original Final Fantasy... The artist seems to know a bit about copyright laws.

All in all, they would only sue you if they would get something out of it. If you made money, they could get that money and rights to future income from it. If you were taking away from their earnings on a current title, they'd have something to complain about. A huge conglomerate such as Nintendo would probably have very little to gain from taking someone to court when they wouldn't get any return for it; cost of lawyers and such considered.

Just be careful. You may not do anything wrong, but somebody may decide to use your program, alter a thing or two, and then sell it. If that happens, if it can be traced back to you, a court could name you as part of the guilty party for the whole thing, in which case you would share the penalties with whomever did this.

Much luck 8)

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Viktor
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 20:39
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Beware of ISDA (Idiotic software Debil agency, or something similar. I don´t remember this anymore. Must find their letter first.), their hobby is to seeking the web for software titles that sounds like you can be ripped off, and send you a letter to remove the software from your site, or to pay.
They even sent a mail to World of Spectrum site because WOS hosts "SoldierS of Fortune", and told them to remove "Soldier of Fortune", because it sounds similar to a new game.

PC: AMD 1200/512 Mb SDR/GF2MX Dual Display/Win2000, 19" Monitor
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cycloid gamma
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 22:19
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i have ripped most of the sprites and that is what i am using. i dont understand do. if i make i sequel to metroid and i am not making any money out of it, all i am doing is giving more publicity to their game. so what is the problem?

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 22:53
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There doesn't seem to be one. But if someone at nintendo feels like it, and thinks they will get enough money to cover the costs, they can sue you. Just because it's freeware doesn't mean your safe.

My advice, look into official nintendo copyright policy, and if your really enterprising, send them a letter (email tends to be ignored), asking for permission to release it as a fan game. At any rate, you CAN NOT use the ripped graphics, they can and might sue for that. But make your own, change them a bit and it won't be worth their while to sue you.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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TogaMario
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 23:13
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Supa Petroid! A new wave is sweeping the nation! Pit-bull metroids ... bred to fight and kill! Follow Primus through the slums of Planet Fifth St. (Local Joke) You think they could sue for making the Metroid name look bad?

P.S. This is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
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David T
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 23:37
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A good example is my Metroid remake in the beta anouncements board. Even thouigh its gameplay is virtually the same as Metroi, it's 3D, 3rd person and the graphics look nothing like any Metroid game.

Visit [url]www.lightning-systems.co.uk[/url]
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cycloid gamma
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 23:51
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can anybody tell me how to put pictures in this board so i can show you guys what i mean.

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GuySavoie
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 23:52
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Owning a copyright gives you the exclusive right to create derivative works; that includes remakes and sequels, and use of the copyrighted scenes or characters.

Can Nintendo sue you? Yes. Will they? Probably not; you are more likely to receive a cease and desist letter, and sue you if you do not honor it.

And yes, sooner or later, you could expect to receive one.

It's not only about profit; it's about who has rights to use the material. If you haven't secured permission, you don't have the rights.

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Pyro
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 00:06
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Cycloid Gamma: "all i am doing is giving more publicity to their game. so what is the problem?"

Well Cycloid, is not that easy. First, lets suppose (JUST LETS SUPPOSE) people for any reason likes more your metroid game than Nintendo, and stop buying metroid games from them, or start saying that Nintendo sucks because your Metroid games are better...That wont be very good for Nintendo. But this example is very close to impossible, lets say you make a 2D game with the graphics of metroid, that means you are no putting any effort on the graphics, and the 2D games end becoming better than Metroid all games. Is very unfair, and this can happen in real life lots of the time, you receive lot of credit for something you didn't DO.
This is no problem if Nintendo authorizes you, and doesn't care about what the consecuences of a Metroid fan-game can do, but don't say there are no reasons because...there are plenty, even more that the cheap ones i gave you

"The ideas are in your head, you just gotta work like a dog and put them into code"
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cycloid gamma
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 01:13
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so what shoul i do now? the engine is ready and the game almost ready to go.

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Pyro
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 01:28
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What you HAD to do is ask that before making the whole engine, you will have to delete and replace anything that is nintendo Copyrighted with original characters from yourself, or leaving it like that and taking the risk of being sue...or just of receiven a very scary letter, not always possible though

"The ideas are in your head, you just gotta work like a dog and put them into code"
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EdzUp
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 08:03
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cycloid gamma: I would completely redraw all your pictures if I were you, there was a little publicised case not to long ago with a Donkey Kong Country clone. Nintendo decided to forgo the legal letter and sue for copyright infringement immediately.

If you use their gfx, sound ,game name or complete game idea then this is copyright infringement. You cannot make a game called Metroid that looks like metroid and plays like metroid without invoking legal wrath. On the other side you can make a game that plays like metroid but isnt called metroid and doesnt use its gfx but your own gfx instead.

-EdzUp
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David T
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 15:22
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so what shoul i do now? the engine is ready and the game almost ready to go.

Change characters, music etc. anything that is "Metroidish" and add your own characters. Hopefully you won't need to rewrite the engine.

Visit [url]www.lightning-systems.co.uk[/url]
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Draez
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2003 08:10
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cycloid gamma:
yes, even if you do not charge for the game you can be sued. The problem is that you are usiing a character that they essential own all rights to. Now, I know you are thinking "but this would give it more publicity" but what you aren't taking into account is that if you create a game then it's not under Nintendo's control in terms of what you do to their characters within your game and that could cause a ripple in Nintendo's good name. For the sake of arguement let's say I made a game and used Metroid's lead character in it. Then during the game I have her get raped. I distribute the game for free so I gain no money.. so there should be no problem, right? Wrong! I just soiled the image of what a Metroid game is in the eye's of Nintendo and it's fans and that can cause damage to the company and the franchise. So while you don't gain any money they could conceivably loose money by letting people use any of their intellectual property without permissions and most likely strick guidelines.

If you really want to use their characters I would write them a letter explaining what I want to use the character for along with a sample of the game/material.

Better to play it safe.

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Plutarck
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2003 18:24
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Uh, the biggest problem here is the ripped graphics. That Nintendo, without question, owns - or even if they don't, someone does.

Games can look alike and play alike - they are called clones, and they happen all the time with little fanfare. The problem is if you 1) use the name or make it sound alike (for instance if you make a Tetris clone, don't even use "tris" or "ris" in the name - you can call it a Metroid Prime clone, just don't name the game that), 2) actually use something from the game itself, like graphics or sound, the legal rights of which are not yours.


So to be fully on the right side of the law, just cut out whatever you took from the game - no, that doesn't mean everything or the game idea or anything you coded, just what you ripped, such as graphics.

Then you'd be perfectly legally fine and dandy, and the chances of being sued/threatened drop MASSIVELY to an entirely negligable degree.

The graphics can look alot like, however. They just can't be the same ones, or just altered versions of the same ones.

"My house has a 3D interface. I'm constantly losing crap, running into things, and it's always a mess."
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Galiem
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 19:47
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Easy fix, though 8) Just change it a bit...

For example, instead of a jetpack, use wings.. Change the textures a bit. This can be done quickly and easily using even Photoshop. Just filter the main character to different colors, add wings, make the arms a bit longer, and you no longer have the Metroid character.

For levels, it's even easier. Unless your map is a clone of one of Nintendo's maps (in which case the whole map would need to be scrapped), all you have to do is alter textures a bit, so they don't resemble the ones in Metroid.

For sounds, just find a sound which could be used instead of the one you have. To keep up with my jetpack example, the sound of a jetpack going off can come from alot of places: start a car, flush a toilet, set off firecrackers, buy a jetpack and record the actual sound (lol).

Once you do those two things, rename the enemies, weapons, main character, and the game itself. Once all copyrighted info has been changed, release it 8)

Include in your End User Liscence Agreement that you were inspired and influenced as a budding developer by Nintendo's earlier works. Also state that the game is intended to be similar to Metroid, but not the same. State that if anyone finds any specific content (texture, sound, model, etc) that is too similar to one of Nintendo's that it will be replaced, and the new version will be distributed.

Doing these things may still get Nintendo's attention, but in court you could prove you were not copying Metroid (unless Nintendo happens to visit this forum lol).

All in all, Metroid is such a classic game, it is nearly its own genre. Consider all the centipede clones out there! They all are the same basic concept as the original, but the author added something to make the gameplay unique.

I would recomend adding to the game a bit. It helps to say, should the worse happen, and you do go to court, that you don't include in your game what they included in theirs. It also helps to say that you do include in your game things they didn't include in theirs. If you can show and prove both of those things to enough of an extent, they will have no case at all, because you will have a unique piece of work 8)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 20:00
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Cycloid ... email me later, i'll talk to you abou the possible copyright infringements and explain howto alter what you have to change it, or even possible work along the lines of getting an extention copyright licence.

Nintendo are pretty good that as long as you ask them and sign something stating you'll never make money from your title they'll allow you to do it
everyone you hear about them going after don't even ask permission they just remake them with faint knowlage about the laws that protect the media.

the Guys over at Project64 have delt with Nintendo alot since they created PJ64 back in '99 and they're the only one which is legitimately around, because they have the warning that Nintendo told them to place on the site, and they've released the source under GPL in part for Nintendo (^_^)

they make reasonable requests for use of their materials, thats provided you ask them for the use

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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InSiDeR
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 12:55
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Cycloid, i think your tredding on fire here, first off i think your being rather silly

its like me making final fantasy 12, and distributing it as the next next release in the series, Squaresoft from that point on would officially own my ass, as the final fantasy series is under licence to squaresoft.

Personally i would NEVER make or even recomend to someone that they make a game with the same name of that as a top selling multi-platnum title, as your game is compared to the top seller and it makes your work look like shit.

So call it something else mate


InSiDeR
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TRS80Model1
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 21:09
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I have had many run-ins with Pimpendo. And let me tell ya, they are sticklers about the lawsuit thing. Best option for you is to send them a nice legal letter and a sample of what you are doing and what it is for, and ask them permission. If they tell you no, then don't do it, cause they will sue without notice. If they give you the okay then stick by every guidline they state or they will mess up your fun.
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k0shi
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 07:02
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ya i think they would sue u, or else y would the roms and emulators have notices, that u have to own the game to download the rom.

If I could drop dead right now, I'd be the happiest man alive.
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TRS80Model1
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 07:54
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It is illegal to transfer any rom by any means whether you own it or not. It is not illegal to emulate hardware. Roms are declared a permanant medium and do not need backup. Posting a permanant medium for others to download and the 24 hour rule is bull#$%%. But if you don't think so, I'll let you find out for yourself. Go ahead and use Nintendo's trademark or roms and let them catch you. LOL
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Soyuz
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 14:44
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LOL So sounds like all you guys making games for the Retro Games competition could end up getting your asses sued....LOL!!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 15:55
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TRS is right... the 24hour rule is crap (however the partical truth to it is you need to have the Rom within your possession for over 24hours for Nintendo to be able to prosecute you ... which is where it came from)
and trading, downloading, uploading Roms is illegal as the backup licence states

"you may have a single instance of the "SOFTWARE" from the original "GAMEPAK" for backup purposes. This copy of the "SOFTWARE" must uploaded within a "NINTENDO" approved hardware only, and maybe placed on any form of removeable media ONLY."

i'd do the whole section but i'd have to use code tags and it'd be bloody enormous ... thats the only section you need.
Basically it gives you the right to backup your game cartridges, however only onto ZipDisks or CDs or DvD's etc...
there is a later second that actually covers internet based releases of titles noting that it is not supported (which basically means Nitendo withhold the right to sue you for it)

that aside as i said... contact Nintendo - they are pretty reasonable as long as you ASK them first.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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HZence
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Posted: 9th Mar 2003 22:19
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Haha. This reminds of me when I was a little kid. I wrote to Nintendo and asked them if I could make my own Pokemon game (which i was gonna do in LTPB...anybody remember that language?). They were so kind about it though, they even wrote back to me and explained how illegal it would be.

Lol.

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