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Dark GDK / Can We Get An Update?

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Briere
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 03:04
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Can we get any news on the DGSDK?
Some dates, new features... anything?!?!?1
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 09:59
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DBPro & hopefully the DarkSDK update should be done by Christmas

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Smithy
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 11:31
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It seems the DBPro update is done... though in the christmas newsletter, you wont find any word about DGSDK related stuff


PS:
As for the documentation, I understand that TGC wants to have a bug-free engine to sell, but my question, what is the use of it if the "users" (coders) don't have a proper documentation of the commands and the framework... we can't see the bugs coz we don't know what the commands do... ??
/*\
|
|
This was an attempt to "engage" TGC in creating a proper documentation and THEN (=afterwards) remove those flying bugs.
If it didn't work, nevermind, I will just be a pain in their backs in the forums until I get the documentation of a specific command. *winks*
I am sure one of the friendly TGC coders will help if you ask specific questions about an un-/partly-documented function! (?)

PS2: @UKs
Sorry for my crappy english heh


Anyway, happy christmas everyone and a successful and happy new year full of coding pleasures hehe

"Ho - Ho - Ho" says
Smithy
( Coder blog - http://www.dabyte.blog.de )
( My NWN DnD Campaign Group - http://www.sundayknights.blog.de )

//Awards: Best DM at NeverwinterConventionIII (NWCon3)
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AlbertoT
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 09:35
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Hello

I quote my thread in DarkBasic forum.
I hope I am wrong :

"the entity-system in Blitz3d is great....

I defintly agree
Blitz3d has a more logical and intuitive syntax but DarkBasic Pro + packs , is more powerful ( a part from the bugs )
Thus, I was expecting that DarkGame SDK were a tremendous hit.
The logical C++ syntax + DarkBasicPro features
It seems I was wrong, it is a pity."

Alberto
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Briere
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 21:46
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what does that have to do with anything?
And no, it works fine, its just that the docs could be better.
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Morcilla
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Posted: 4th Dec 2005 11:25
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Quote: "its just that the docs could be better"

I think they should fix the engine too.

Quote: "DBPro & hopefully the DarkSDK update should be done by Christmas"

They must be right now on vacation, I really tell you.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Dec 2005 11:43
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There is two weeks to go yet...

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Dark Lord
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Posted: 4th Dec 2005 23:38
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I feel the same with the DarkSDK as I did when I purchased DarkBasic Classic, TGC moves on to new products and leaves us behind.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 5th Dec 2005 14:50
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In this case there aren't new products as yet. It does seem to going rather too slowly.

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Morcilla
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Posted: 6th Dec 2005 12:28
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Quote: "There is two weeks to go yet..."

Yeah, well if anybody was working last sunday, I'll apologize

Quote: "It does seem to going rather too slowly"

I don't see any movement, and to go slow, at least you have to be in movement.
Last update (1.1.1) was six months ago! And it is still a "beta".

I thought that once DBPro was updated, they only have to recompile it in a different way to get DBSDK libraries... How long does that take?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 6th Dec 2005 14:17
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Mike sometimes works on Sundays, I believe. He said he may have to work over Christmas too... I said he needs a pay rise!

He said the update should be out soon

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Dark Intruder
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Posted: 6th Dec 2005 16:17 Edited at: 6th Dec 2005 16:17
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@better docs

I have updated some "enhanced" docs in this post..basically generated the functions / signatures from the header files and linked them to whatever was in the CHM file


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=66463&b=22

The zip file is attached in the second message

enjoy

In Order To Understand Recursion One Must First Understand Recursion
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 6th Dec 2005 23:29 Edited at: 6th Dec 2005 23:33
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Thanks for the updated help files they save me alot of trouble when calling the functions.
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Briere
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 02:13
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My biggest want is support for VC++ 2005.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 08:44
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Yes, same here too...

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Smithy
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 09:10
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Quote: "
I am my greatest fan wrote:

"Mike sometimes works on Sundays, I believe. He said he may have to work over Christmas too... I said he needs a pay rise!"
"


Defenitly!

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Smithy
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 09:19
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@Dark Intruder
You're the man!
Thanks!

Its just sad to see that even some open-source projects (for example) have a much better doc then DB/DGSDK

QUOTE from the API documentation of a open-source engine:
"The *censored by DaByte*-Engine is intended to be an easy-to-use 3d engine, so this documentation is an important part of it."

I think DGSDK is also intended to be an easy-to-use 3d engine/game engine...

And I have to agree with "dark lord", I too, feel somehow "left" but I "hope" they'll find the time to give us more attention again at some point.

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Dark Intruder
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 15:30 Edited at: 7th Dec 2005 15:31
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I seeded a wiki at http://darksdk.xwiki.com

I think instead of waiting around for the updates and cribbing about it we can do something useful and start populating the Wiki


come on guys let us make the docs better ...

In Order To Understand Recursion One Must First Understand Recursion
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 15:57
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I'm there - thanks Dark Intruder!
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Smithy
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 21:58
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Briere
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Posted: 7th Dec 2005 23:23
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Ughh the wait is driving me nuts!!!!
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Lampton Worm
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Posted: 8th Dec 2005 12:27
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Luckily I can entertain myself learning C++ while I wait for an update, but blimey it does seem slow with not much communication.

Ah well, here's hoping for an update soon, I'm sure its happening just not encouraging to scan the newsletter each time for SDK and not find anything. Also on the TGC front page a nice pic of all the products - apart from DGSDK. But then I guess that's because its still Beta?

Cheers
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 09:25
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When was it the last update was released anyway?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 10:03
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Have a look at your order history - it was quite a while ago.

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Dark Lord
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 10:26
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I think it would put many peoples minds at rest if they could at least give us an ‘approximate’ date.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 10:51
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Yes, would be nice...

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Morcilla
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 13:07
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Yeah, you don't know what can happen if you let your imagination fly:

On the good side:

- They are making a big improvement in the engine, but it's a secret!

On the bad side:

- A major problem has appeared within the engine and they cannot solve it.
- Developers only work half-time for TGC.
- Mike does not work for TGC anymore.
- TGC is about to close.

And so on. One thing seems to be truth: DBGDK (or DBSDK or whatever) the double the price, the half the support. Not a word from them in months.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 13:28
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Mike is/was last doing some translation work - probably taking long than it should do

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Smithy
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 15:43
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Argh, Morcilla, you scare me away!

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Dark Lord
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 06:01 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 06:03
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I don’t think anything is going to be released this Christmas though, but you never know your luck.
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 20:21 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 20:33
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TGC really should care about all of their products, and not only focus on their new wonder-child FPSC. Ok, It might be harder done than said when the size of their team is as small as it is. But to encourage them, I can say that I would actually consider buying DarkGame SDK(or whatever it's called), if I knew it was updated rather frequently, and if it supported Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition. I don't want to buy some expensive C++ compiler just to get DGSDK

I really hope they're going to pay more attention to the DGSDK engine, as I think it would be really cool to have DarkBASIC 'integrated' into C++. It would encourage me to learn some more C++! Hehe.

Oh and by the way:
That license stuff, is that totally removed or what? It says on the info page: "New 1.1 Version Upgrade Now Available
Now Sell Your Games License Free"

But under the purchase options, you can still buy a licensed version that costs $140 more. I'm confused.... I hate licenses...


I can't be fired... Slaves are SOLD!
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 22:42
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Quote: "Now Sell Your Games License Free"
- What is that supposed to mean?
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 10:28
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oringinally there were two licenses - the freeware license and the shareware license. Same price as the current two, freeware is the same as it is now - no selling, but the shareware only allowed you to sell shareware games and not fully commercial games in a store or whatever. They decided that was too limiting so they scrapped the shareware and replaced it with the commercial license. License free is odd wording, but i suppose accurate from the right point of view - if you buy the commercial version of the sdk then your game isnt restricted to being licensed as shareware and you can sell it in whatever means you can manage. That what changed in 1.1 and what they mean when they say it ^^


DarkSDK/WinAPI Tutorial
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 13:04 Edited at: 24th Dec 2005 13:05
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So I pay $140 for a commercial license? And then I don't need any other license, for example a license from Microsoft because I use their compiler?

I think it's very misleading to say that you can sell your apps made with DGSKD license free when you need a license!
I am very confused, and I think that the product description of DGSDK is VERY unprofessional...


I can't be fired... Slaves are SOLD!
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 13:35
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its not unprofessional and that is, if we're honest, what the problem is. It IS professional and is using select lingo which is perfectly accurate if you understand the contex and are familier with the professional approach to the system. When was the last time you saw anything written in plain english? A simple product license would be "dont steal this software or try to rip it off else we'll sue you" - but that needs saying in around 12 pages of words! XD

But indeed, you buy the commercial license and then you need no more licenses. You do not owe microsoft anything after you have bought their compiler, once you bought it it yours to use just fine. Using the commercial version of darksdk means you owe TGC NO royalities and can sell your work in anyway you wish.

Remember, if you already have the freeware license then, last time i checked, you dont need to buy the full commercial license but can purchess a cheaper "upgrade". Alot of people when first getting into the SDK like to buy the freeware license, develop their game and when they are ready to sell they upgrade to commercial. I highly recommend that approach - if you never manage to get to a point where you can sell stuff then you loose no extra money


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Freddy 007
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 14:05
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Ahh, thanks, I understand it now.

If the SDK is ever to be updated, and make it "Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 Express"-compatible, I might consider getting it!

Thanks for the help!


I can't be fired... Slaves are SOLD!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 14:19 Edited at: 24th Dec 2005 14:41
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I do hope it is - want to start uninstalling 2003 on all my machines.

Unfortunately I can see it being a lot of work, although the much needed update and conversion to 2005 could be done at the same time...

The main problem wuld be the last conversion from DX8 to 9...

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 17:36
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Not to forget that core engine changes like that will effect dbp too. Maybe not noticiably, but theres probably variables (hah) and factors to consider of which we arnt even aware.

Still, I would like to see it happen too


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 19:04
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They would probably also have to include MCF80.DLL too...

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Briere
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Posted: 25th Dec 2005 19:42 Edited at: 25th Dec 2005 19:58
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I asked TGC about it and they said they havnt even tried anything with VC++ 2005 yet.

It would be nice and practical to give their customers, who I think are VERY patient and putting up with a less than quality product an update.
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 06:49 Edited at: 30th Dec 2005 06:51
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I found this part of the EULA very disturbing :
Quote: "5.5 The Owner does not warrant that the Software will meet your requirements or will be suitable for creating commercial products or that the operation of the Software will be uninterrupted or error free or that defects in the Software will be corrected. "
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Morcilla
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 11:08
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I think that is to protect theirselves from minor problems, but that clause would be illegal for a real lawsuit against them, like that a product does not achieve the specifications that they sell.

It's like if a car tyre producer writes in every invoice "We don't warrant this tyre.". That has no validity. In case of lawsuit a court will decide and usually against the manufacturer.
If you sell something, it has to be what you say in every word. There are consumer rights.
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 11:33 Edited at: 30th Dec 2005 11:34
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Last mention the SDK got in the newsletter was some time during the middle of 2005 (correct me if I am wrong) but it would be really good if a member of TGC could at least tell us whether they are still working on it or not/and perhaps an approximate release date.
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Vlad
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Posted: 30th Dec 2005 12:16
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I have a gut feeling that TGC will give more feedback after January 1st. I think they are taking a timeout during this season since there have been delays with order processing, etc. It's just some more days, no worries.

Regarding the EULA: It's for protection. I've received software from other companies that had the EULA, in paper, inside the CD and stated something like "If you open the wrap paper of the CD you acknowledge the EULA." I don't find TGC's agreements that bad, it's just an added protection.

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 20:19 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2006 20:20
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There will be an update soon enough and I can only apologise that it hasn't come sooner but rest assured we are on the case

The next version will bring things up to date so everything is the same as DB Pro. I also have lots of new examples, some tutorials and improved documentation in the works.

We will be looking at VS 2005 pretty soon as well. If all goes well it wont take too much time to get things working with it.
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Vlad
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 20:21
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Great news Mike, thank you.

And a good year to you!

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
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scooby bloke
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 21:08
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That's good to hear. I've had to switch to VS2005 this week, and so I guess the sdk is pretty useless for me at the moment, (although I haven't had time to try it yet to see what the problems are with 2005).
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 21:08 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2006 21:49
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Well, the main current problem is LIBC and DirectX 8...
I do recommend using the security enhanced CRT routines - it involves extra code modification, but could be worth it.

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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 23:20
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Quote: "There will be an update soon enough and I can only apologise that it hasn't come sooner but rest assured we are on the case "


Great to hear from you Mike: specially news like these!
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Dark Lord
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 07:30 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 07:32
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Nice to hear about the update I'm sorry for being so pessimistic
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