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Geek Culture / sales tax is around the corner

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re faze
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 15:05 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2005 18:02
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Did anyone hear about how the us senate is propolsing legislation to force sales taxes on internet purchases? I think the whole tax thing is convoluted, as you must pay sales tax, and then pay tax upon the income derived from the sale.
I think there should be either an income or consumption tax, but not both.

anyways here it is
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6004917.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=zdnet

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 16:30 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2005 16:37
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Is that tax on the consumer or the retailer? In the UK we pay 17.5% on anything we buy (except books I think)... We also pay over 20% income tax and abuot 10% National Insurance.. (based on a £25k salery)

EDIT: That means that, assuming you spend all your salary, you basically hand almost 50% of it to the government!


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adr
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 16:36
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I hope this doesn't turn into a "let's list the taxes we pay" thread. Last time that happened I almost went on a murderous rampage. If it wasn't for the heavyweight "murderous rampage" tax to disuade me, there would have been a big mess to clean up.

[center]
iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 16:38
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lmao


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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 16:48
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LOL!

We brits have to hear about how cheap things are in the US all the time, now when you lot get those rediculously low fuel prices sorted, start paying proper tax, and start paying everyone elses pension and benefits you can all complain just like us brits .


Van-B

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re faze
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 18:01
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brits are the king of taxes, that's why the us broke off from them but now the people here are doing the same crap and we'll have to sort that out.
Its kinda funny how the us originally wanted to get away from unfair taxation but now that they realize that its a huge source of income, they jumped on the banwagon.
also I thought brits can get the queen to pay for their schooling and such? the social programs here are crap, nobody wants to use tax money to help ordinary people.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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David R
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 18:03
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Quote: "brits are the king of taxes"


Yeah, but where we have taxes, you have other money-stealing things
(we have road tax, you have toll roads etc.)

Quote: "Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 18:08
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Taxes make the world work and keep the poor alive. I'm all for progressive tax - take more from the rich. I won't even complain when I'm rich. I'll just bust a few more heads and make some extra $$$$ to make up for it.


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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 18:48
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Actually we Canadians are pretty close to the brits level. With all of our taxes put together, and if we make over $65k a year, we're taxed 55% of our income!

Apparently in my province (British Columbia) we're taxed the most from anyone else in North America.


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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 20:04
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Governments are greedy. Taxes feed them. Of course they want to tax everything in sight.


Arr
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the_winch
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 20:31
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Tax freedom day

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 20:37
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if you don't want to pay taxes, move to some remote island and live their without everything the government pays for with these "horrible taxes" you have to pay

Appointed by Jimmy as "MR. GAME REVIEW WIZARD GUY"
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Dazzag
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 23:12
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Quote: "We also pay over 20% income tax "
God I would love that. I'm on 40% for a good portion of mine. Love it. At one time I was on about 42% because of a company car. I remember reading the Beatles were on something like 98% back in the 60s, when the government really had a laugh. Was the inspiration for their Tax man song (tax the air you breathe lyrics)

Quote: "rediculously low fuel prices sorted"
True true. Although the quality of US fuel at the pumps is probably about right for our lawn mowers. Mainly because you don't need the good stuff for those huge efforts that can't go round corners Heh, on another forum a while back this bloke from the US was complaining about really high gas prices. Was about 4 times lower than ours (even with imperial conversions etc). But it was for 92 (and was apparently the good stuff). Hoho. Not even sure you can buy that here. Incidentally the best you can buy here, I think, is 99. You wouldn't believe how much it costs though Erm, think it's down to about a quid a *litre* now. A quid is about $1.73. I also remember reading that getting a barrel of petrol to the pumps is actually cheaper in the UK than the US (overall for the whole country - don't forget you have to travel far in the US).

Love it

Cheers

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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2005 23:56
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Quote: "Although the quality of US fuel at the pumps is probably about right for our lawn mowers"


I don't know about what it's like over there, but there are multiple qualities you can buy over here, naturally each with their own price... and yes, US made cars are crap


Arr
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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:05
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Yeah, for petrol we have 95 (unleaded), 97 (super unleaded), 98 (only Esso I believe), and 99 (Tesco super 99). I read a mag earlier that said there was also a performance racing petrol, but you can't hardly buy it anywhere. And it's about £3.50 a litre. Thats about $6 a litre. Not massively better than the normal stuff either.

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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:12
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Quote: "95 (unleaded), 97 (super unleaded)..."


Sounds like our stuff, most pumps offer three levels of quality though.

Talking about gas is reminding me of how I always park the family van facing wrong. It's such a pain driving cars with the fuel doors on opposite sides


Arr
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:30
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Quote: "Thats about $6 a litre."


Holy crunch! Right now the price is around $0.80 a litre for just regular unleaded gas. In downtown it's close to $1.00 :-P


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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 00:42
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Yeah, but thats never heard of it before stuff. Get the final few bhp out of the car if you really want to. I normally use 98 on mine as I notice the performance difference, plus mine really doesn't like 95 (Subaru Impreza Turbo). Its not as bad as my mates RS though, that basically is not supposed to have 95 otherwise it could break.

Lets not mention other fuels. Such as diesel....

Cheers

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David T
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:03
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Quote: "and yes, US made cars are crap "


I wouldn't put it like that... I may get flamed!

All the US cars we've hired I've found have been... adapted to the market. Very beefy sound systems, legroom, more cupholders than you can count, and a large variety of bonging noises designed to warn you you're in a car.

One thing they seem to lack however is suspension!

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SirFire
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:09
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Quote: "a large variety of bonging noises designed to warn you you're in a car."


LOL, it's funny b/c it's true!

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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:14
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Heh, when I was in Dubai the cars would chime at a pathetic 55mph (fastest speed limit they had). Well annoying.

Stuff legroom and cupholders. I want to go around a corner at serious speeds. Without ending up in casualty.... Darn, just remembered I have to leave my beloved motor in the damn airport for a week come xmas eve. Annoying parents and moving abroad (beats Wales though)

Cheers

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Killswitch
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:29
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I don't get the whole idea of taxing things individually. Woudln't it be so much easier just to have a sliding scale income tax on people and busnesses - that way everything would still be taxed and the whole system would be far simpler.

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
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JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 01:30
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it's a sales tax, they tax things on what people sale, that's how the gov makes a lot of their money off of companies...

but the buyer is paying for it not the buisness...

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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 03:28 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 04:20
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but if you pay income tax, and then sales tax, isnt that double taxation?
there has been progress in the past, but it seems that the money is solely used to bomb the crap out of people now

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 06:53
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everyone really has to pay taxes it comes with the tom locke contract we all have to follow.

God modelled man in his own reference image.
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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 08:25
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Dude, the bill that was going around was speaking of replacing Income tax with sales tax. Dont remember how that turned out. That would mean the poor get taxed less (dont buy as much), and the rich who buy yachts , pay more. So basically teh uber perfect system

We have fallen Into an abyss! Dear God captian! There all Bars.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 12:51
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Quote: "isnt that double taxation"
Yes. With your name you should join the English government

Actually (not an accountant so am guessing here) I think the company gets taxed one way or another, you get taxed before you get your pay (and after if anyone cocked up along the way - not noticing is not an excuse!!!! - or if you happen to have made any extra cash at all), you get taxed when you buy something (don't think it's on baby stuff or books - but then they cost a fortune these days anyway), and apparently when you try and sell it again. Not to mention when you put the money in a bank, as they will tax the interest (if you don't report it because you didn't know then this is no excuse - it says on tax returns - but they will ignore small things). I won't even get into how they tax your pension...

Heh, this country is turning into Chavville. I estimate that within 25 years the whole country will be Chavtastic with major low pay jobs. All the high pay ones will be exported like the call centres and cheap software teams they bring in or get to work from their own countries - happened at my company. We had a room full of contractors that were paid anything between £50 and £100k a year. Company imported a team of indian programmers from india (we had indian programs from england that were on a hell of a lot of money). Apparently they worked out to cost about half the amount of the others. This was all paid to a company in India and included living expenses. Apparently their actual pay was like 1/10th the other contractors (Indian company kept most of it).

Everyone else will give up on Uni cos of the high costs, and only the rich will go. Course if you are a lazy git with like 5 kids, then you will be fine. No worries. Everyone else will leave the country. Shame the US is so closed these days (why didn't anybody in my family ever emigrate for the coal mines before 2001???), but plenty of other ports.

Heh, a friend of mine just had to put his parents into a home. The government made then sell their family home to pay for it. They get to keep about £20k apparently. Just so you know, house prices cost a fortune in the UK now. Apart from a slowdown in the last year or so it's been amazing. Used to make me laugh that after buying my house, 4 years later I could afford to buy (out right) a huge 5 bedroom epic house in Florida with an indoor pool etc. Just on the profit made in 4 years. His parents house is worth about £300k apparently. Thats about $521k. Oh yes. And they are 80+. So minus the 20k the government gracially let them keep, and assuming they live for, I dunno, 5 more years (both are quite ill)? Then thats about $100k a year. Nice. And the kicker? (nope haven't got to that part yet) Well the bloke in the next room to them hasn't really worked a day in his life, has no money etc, and gets the same as them basically. Gotta love it. Look forward to retirement guys.

Don't work too hard (if you are in the UK)....

Cheers

Ps. This may seem really bitter and twisted; because it is. If you don't have a job yet, or you have only a couple of years under your belt, then *trust* me, even if you love your job (and I do; I'm a programmer!!!), after a decade in this country you want to become a beach bum or something.

In other words I'm off to buy an expensive electrical item. Hmmm. Friend of mine just got a Nano (early Xmas gift I got her). Tis really nice...... 60gb iPod methinks....

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 13:14
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Small comment about the Indian outsourcing - I read that they're actually starting to run out of skilled workers there, because of all the outsourcing. So soon, the demand will be greater than the supply and the prices will slowly start rising again.

Probably take a long time, but nothing is limitless.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 13:17
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Woah, that was a bit of a rant. Sorry, feel better now after mucking around with Nano. Very cute. iTunes could be a bit better though. Thought it was supposed to be the best software. Sure, better than SonicStage (not hard), but I've noticed a few things in a few minutes that could have been done a hell of a lot better.

Out of interest, when I added album art to a whole album, the only way I found to do it is to use file info on the whole album (browse mode and select a single album). This works, but actually just attaches the image to each and every song in the album. Fine, but I notice that this increases the size considerably. Almost a meg on a 20 song CD for a jpg that is 20k on the computer. Thought it would only store a single image and reference to it, or at least resize the image to stupidely small size (nano is less than a postage stamp size). Annoying software. Unless someone knows what I'm doing wrong?

Cheers

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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 13:22 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 13:23
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Quote: "I read that they're actually starting to run out of skilled workers there"
Fair enough, but they are getting more skilled quickly. Plus there is like a billion people in the country. Fair enough most of it is totally pennyless, but still... and it's not just from there. Personally, considering the vast amount of tax we pay, I don't understand why the government doesn't tax companies that do this a hell of a lot? Esp the call centre stuff. I mean if you import something then you have to pay tax (or at least declare it). Anything above something like £150 I believe you have to declare. So why is it any different with call centres? Esp when you consider people are losing jobs over it. Like the governments answer on the BBC the other day. Went something like "But it's better this way as it makes the country wealthier, which is better for everyone in the long run". Yeah, say that to the laid off call centre people (mate of mine who I've worked with for nearly 10 years got laid off the other day without *any* notice). I've been through 5 redundancy scares in the last 4 years now (travel and computing doesn't mix so well since 2001). Only a matter of time.... Well, more money to chavtown I guess.... Always a job in BKs....

Nevermind, it's almost Xmas. Time to get really drunk

Cheers

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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 14:23
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Im sorry to hear that.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 19:04
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Quote: "Went something like "But it's better this way as it makes the country wealthier, which is better for everyone in the long run""


Weee socialism


My two libertarian cents: High taxation isn't progressive, it's regressive; humanity will really prove it has moved forward when the poor are supported out of charity given by the people's free will, rather than taxes taken from them at gunpoint.


Arr
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 19:15
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Quote: "(we have road tax, you have toll roads etc.)"

Americans pay registration fee's every year, exept if you have a Mexican license plate.


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 20:28
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If there ever is a time when we switch to sales tax totally, I will vote for it. Any president that supports it (Even if he is a democrat, 3rd party, ect), has my vote. It really comes down to the wealthy who make purchases, pay more. The middle class, gets taxed middley, and the lower class is basically not taxed. Much better system imho. Income tax is horribley crude. Depending on you "Income" you pay a tax. Right now, it is basically: Poor Pay more than they can, Midddle are almost even, and rich pay practically nothing to them. Bah, always been this way, not just a crazy bush thing. I forsee many issues with this stuff in the future. Right now state sales tax + Income tax + other stuff = anti-$$$. I agree, England has it worse. But thats why the US looked so frigging awesome in the early 20th century. Socialism is just...different. Our Corrupt Democratic-Republic on the other hand is basically a ever changing dictatorship. One side is pissed, and wants to overthrow, the other is happy and gloating. At least we dont pay much for gas. Bah, Alaska, Montana, Texas, all you uneducated folk might think that we need oil. But, almost every economic analyst will say to you:
"The price of gas, is un-equal to the quantity we have."
We dont need oil. We have it. But if you cant realise that gas companies dont have to give cheap oil, you will realise that they just want mony Any way, my rant is almost done. Ian T is right! Sales Tax would help this even more, provided it works. We dont really have high taxes. We have low taxes. But the poor are still taxed. We always can ask countries to pay their debt off to us, if we need money. More than a few trillion in all the nations combined. Our poor debt. Well, we owe money to other nations. It is as simple as that. Other nations owe US money. We arent the only ones. Ask england their debt. Ask france theirs (a lot to us, I guess.). We have the largest income. We get a larger debt if we ask nations to help. We helped other nations, they owe a heck lot to us. Europe in total has a huuuuge debt to america, not just because of war debts getting paid, but because of Borrowing aid, and financial aid (not from the UN). You dis-like my opinion? Bah-humbug! I truely dont care. I like other people's opinions! It is great to hear from other countries, or even people in different states! My opinion is radically right, but probably not religious right. Teh end of rant.

We have fallen Into an abyss! Dear God captian! There all Bars.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 20:44 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 20:48
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@Undercover Noob-
Quote: "Bah, Alaska, Montana, Texas, all you uneducated folk might think that we need oil. "

Why does it have to be like that? Whether your opinions are valid or not you bury them underneath political dogma and regional insults. I'm from Texas. What about it? How old are you? Where exactly have you been?

I'm a proud American, but your post sounds like a bunch of nativist crap. You're placing America in the superior position just because it is your opinion. It's not as simple as you paint it. And the picture you paint is not conversational, it's political rant.


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the_winch
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 20:55 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 20:55
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Quote: "Why does it have to be like that? Whether your opinions are valid or not you bury them underneath political dogma and regional insults. I'm from Texas. What about it?"


He was listing states that contain oil not states that contain uneducated people.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 21:06 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 21:07
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Well, America produces 50% of the oil we consume. We have oil, but our consumption exceeds our supply. If we increased our domestic crude consumption, we'd deplete our reserves. A factor in importing oil is our reserve and its impact on our national defense. Therefore, we import.

To list the states that have oil and tell everyone that they are uneducated is pointless. I guarantee, every single person in the world knows that America produces oil, and at the same time imports it. That proves nothing.


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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 21:31 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2005 21:32
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whoa guys! dont get carried away lets not flame here

hey! if you wanna buy software that helps you do your taxes, go to the bottom of the screen man that thing's smart

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 21:34
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Well, then your guarantee is wrong, because everyone doesnt. I wasnt insulting anyones intelligent. Unless u tlk lkie dis, you are an intelligent being. Its not in a superior position. If you read it all, I say many times, our system right now sucks. I dis-like some things happening. And on the oil: We have enough oil in the US to supply it for 20 years. We cant access it all though, because of activisists. I do agree, that any endangering of animals should be stopped. Life is precious, better save it. Well for one, 75% of oil in america is imported. Or was, dont know now, because of New Orleans, but that is how it was. I didnt even list the states. I listed a few states that have more oil. We still have oil in over 2/3 of the US. But that doesnt matter, because national defense!!!11 My honest opinion is that we know we have oil, we know we dont have to import, but major companies need a way to commercialize themselves. A fact. Oil in short supply! Only most of the middle east has it! We have no oil almost! This gains more profit.

Me:
26,
39 of the 50 proud US states.

Lived in Texas, intelligent state, better than up here in the Pacific Northwest. I never said anything about insulting anyone. I dont like insulting people that much. It just makes things worse. A lot worse.
If we are so worried about the reserves for national security, why has there been a recent increase in oil activity, and heavy decrease in steady importing? Exluding New Orleans, it means we are...hmmm.. I dont know? Becoming self reliant. A good thing, not bad. It isnt a national risk, it means in case of a major war (soon, I tell you all), we dont fricking have to go to another country for oil. Makes more sense. We dont have a tiny puddle of oil, we have nearly as much as parts of the middle east in the US. I am not putting the US ahead. It seems you just get tempered easy, when you cant interpret anything in a logical path. That is my honest opinion, and no, there is no point in saying it is wrong. I wont be wavered by anything else. I dont want this to become a political thread, and be locked! I just was stating my entire opinion, which became a rant about this country.

We have fallen Into an abyss! Dear God captian! There all Bars.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 22:22
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haven't read past my last post... so i pick and choose:
Quote: "but if you pay income tax, and then sales tax, isnt that double taxation?"

no, it's not, because the buyer is paying for the sales tax usually

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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2005 22:58
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yeah, but you already paid income tax, so your paying a tax with already taxed income

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 00:13
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i WANT THE SALES TAX.

i LIKE GIVING MONEY TO CHARITY.


The cat era has begun.
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Fallout
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 01:52 Edited at: 24th Dec 2005 01:53
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Just remember, its our obese taxes that reduce our rich poor divide. The less tax you pay, the more poor people you have.

You Americans should be ashamed of yourselves for keeping your hard earned money. You should be begging the government to take it all off you. How do you sleep at night?!?!

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re faze
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 03:09
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actually taxes widen the gap as in the us the more you make, the less you pay for
you practically have to go on a bell tower with a shotgun to get any decent service. in canada they have widespread public healthcare, but here its every man for himself. I mean i like it just as much as the next guy but c'mon I gotta eat.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 04:30
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Quote: "Just remember, its our obese taxes that reduce our rich poor divide. The less tax you pay, the more poor people you have.
"


I hear that from democrats a lot. Nobody who's actually taken an economics course, though


Arr
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 05:29 Edited at: 24th Dec 2005 05:32
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Oh, the politics. Every economic system that exists has some kind of benefit, or it wouldn't exist. It also has some weakness or it wouldn't be attacked.

Fat taxes do insure that some "social security" is achieved. Without it there is no guarantee. Now, I think it's the specific methods of it that should be argued and fine tuned, not the system itself.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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Fallout
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 11:45
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Quote: "I hear that from democrats a lot. Nobody who's actually taken an economics course, though "


Ahh, you guys and your party labelling! It's a free for all over here. Everyone argue whatever they like and its irrelvant whether your party leader agrees with it or not.

At least, in the UK, there's no way you can argue any different. The fact that we have masses of state benefits, so people can live without work, and the more you earn, the more your taxed (exponentially) ..... how can you disagree with my statement? The bigger your car, the more road tax, the more fuel tax. The more you earn, exponentially more income tax, as not only is 20% of your wages more money, but the bracket moves up towards 40%.

A guy earning 100k gives 40k in tax. A guy earning 10k gives 2k in tax. Rich boy is contributing over 20times more tax than poor boy, and unemployed boy is getting his dole money from the state. The state is able to give unemployed boy lots of cash because of poor boys contributions, but mainly rich boys contributions.

I know you have a rich country dude, but over here we can't magic our lashings of benefit money out of our country's arse.

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Chris K
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 12:38
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Quote: "A guy earning 100k gives 40k in tax. A guy earning 10k gives 2k in tax"


I cannot believe how many people think this.

If the 20% tax bracket is £20,000 and the 50% tax bracket is £90,000 and you earn £100,000 - YOU ARE NOT TAXED 50% of £100,000!!!

You are taxed 20% of £90,000 and 50% of £10,000 (everything you earn over £90,000)

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adr
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 13:17 Edited at: 24th Dec 2005 13:22
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What Chris K says is correct, although the thresholds are a little off . I'm not being pedantic here, I just thought I'd throw in some helpers. 40% kicks in at something paltry like £32k. That's why there was talk of intoducing another threshold - 50% at £100k. 22% is pretty much everything below 32. I'm inbetween those two thresholds (or at least I was before I got made redundant) and my NET/GROSS for the year would've equated to 66%. I only take home 66% (ignoring student loan repayments) of what I think I'm earning.

Show me any family now, where the husband has to support a family* in a privately owned home and for him not to be in the 40% tax band. I'm sure I'll get by, I just don't get the point in a graded tax system where almost everyone who isn't living in a council house is in 40% tax. </snobbery>

Quote: "but you already paid income tax, so your paying a tax with already taxed income"

What's your point? That happens all the time...

Let's take the public health system here in the UK. I work, my income gets taxed, I get national insurance tax, I get taxed on whatever form of transport I choose to get to the dentist (17.5% VAT on clothes, before you suggest walking) and then I have to pay for the service which is supposed to be funded by taxes!


* Chauvanstic? Old fashioned? No, infact my girlfriend and I have talked a lot about the future. She has stated on many a time that she wants to "stay at home with the babies".

[center]
iv tryed everything!!!!!!!!!! could u please just add The gun and shooting Code thats All!!!!!!!!!
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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2005 13:33
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in the uk business owners pay 26% just in tax,thats not including nat insurance ,vat.this will probably go up again this april.
the workers pay about 50% of their earnings to tax,not including the council tax.
our wages get taxed, the things we buy also have been taxed meaning we have been double taxed.we have national insurance to pay,vat,and if we earn over a certain amount a week we get moved into a higher tax band meaning we have to pay out more.
im all for contributing towards the country economics but would feel better and would probably get taxed less if the leaders actually didnt get plane rides to pick up menus or items of clothing and would stop driving in overpriced jags then wave it in our faces.
their supposed to be running the country for the good of the people in it,not for the good of their own retirement fund.

the programmer formarly known as thicko.
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