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bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 03:17
ppl of earth

i can´t take it anymore. please, moderators. lets open a second theme-topic named \"showcase pro\" where all the reeeeally good and promising screenies and demos should be moved to. I am just here for a couple of days but I am tired of being dissapointed of looking into another superb monster-game in development that turns out to be an unbearable exageration of non-existent talent, underestimation of time and a fake company... all the same **** that was going on in the game studio forum is happening again over here... its a fraggin deja vú! well, if its from any interest: at game studio they have 2 showcases, one amateur, one pro...

we all started sometime and people should be encouraged by being able to present their work here... but there is too many ppl that overestimate their work and underestimate the time a good game takes... pls or I´ll soon get eye-cccaaannnccceeerrr.. please help..

what do you all think about that?

gimme five, pls.

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
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Dave J
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 11:19
I don't think there are enough 'pro' games to warrant a dedicated pro showcase. I think that the more outstanding games will stand out because instead of the threads dropping after one or two days, they will continue to stay at the top of the forum due to their popularity. At the moment, I don't think we have any such games yet, however.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 15:37
Quote: "At the moment, I don't think we have any such games yet, however. "


i would like to disagree.. it doesnt have to be a finished 50 levels game. i dont understand this effort anyway. we all should know you´ll need a year for that, even with FPSC. I'd love to see a growing scene of very small minigames that have a pro look.

i am happy with a one level shooter that has a certain quality that makes clear that the person is doing it really seriously.. it would also help much to apreciate what FPSC V1 can do. i have seen 4 or 5 very nice demos here. problem is, its very diffult to search the forum here and find them back. i need to place "favourites" next time, but there was some awesome talent here.

i just speak from experience, in the game studio forum it works very fine. ppl dont expect too much in the showcase I, while things that are moved to showcase II have a certain depth.

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
audio production servitor / tech editor
s a v e o u r t r a n s i e n t s
Shadows Back
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:10
hmm i have seen a couple realy good games that would fit in that catigory.but a showcase pro that would be alittle harsh wouldent it?

Shadow
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:13
Quote: "hmm i have seen a couple realy good games that would fit in that catigory.but a showcase pro that would be alittle harsh wouldent it?

Shadow"


harsh? i dont understand... okay, name it "expert" - "more pro" sounds weak

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
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Vlad
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:28
And who would evaluate what is pro and what isn't? It's insane really...

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
FPSMaker Man
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 17:34
The mods could do that sort of thing...I mean, this is definitely a good idea...

I reject your reality and substitute it with a full-on, guns-blazin' video game reality of my own.
Vlad
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 18:08
Read what one of the mods has to say about it a bit above. Another thread of the same kind was created in the general chat and another mod posted there regarding it.

If this went through it would be elitist and would raise a great deal of noise regarding what's good to go to the "pro section". And there's also the fact that mods are here to moderate and are not affiliated or represent TGC's opinions on things (as far as I know at least) therefor it would put them in a ackward position.

Should people refrain sometimes from posting, yes I agree, but it's their choice to do so or not. Crack open a gap between the "pros" (if there are any) and the others wouldn't bring anything good.

My 2 cents (of € of course)

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 19:43 Edited at: 12th Jan 2006 01:56
Quote: " Read what one of the mods has to say about it a bit above. Another thread of the same kind was created in the general chat and another mod posted there regarding it.

If this went through it would be elitist and would raise a great deal of noise regarding what's good to go to the "pro section". And there's also the fact that mods are here to moderate and are not affiliated or represent TGC's opinions on things (as far as I know at least) therefor it would put them in a ackward position.

Should people refrain sometimes from posting, yes I agree, but it's their choice to do so or not. Crack open a gap between the "pros" (if there are any) and the others wouldn't bring anything good.

My 2 cents (of € of course) "


no, I dont think so. just take a close look at the game-studio fanbase.. they all live happily together. its not elitist to have two categories. you could name one "OUTSTANDING" and then nobody´s hurt. please dont overcomplicate the topic... its just a matter how you perceive it. but its useful nevertheless.

just check here for a minute...
http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

robert

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
audio production servitor / tech editor
s a v e o u r t r a n s i e n t s
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 19:55
from the GAME STUDIO forum:

- the "read before posting" stuff...

(note that SHOWCASE I has waaaay more ppl reading it actually. so its more popular, ok? dig that please... )

Quote: "

SHOWCASE I
Gamestudio projects - work in progress

SHOWCASE II
Professional Gamestudio projects - screens & demos

This forum is for ambitious projects in professional quality. This means games that are clearly above amateur level, are suited to sell and have reached a certain state of completion.

* Please post screenshots, videos or downloadable demos. By posting screenshots of Gamestudio projects, you agree that we may use them for advertising, for instance in our GameStudio gallery.
* If you have only been working on your game for a few weeks, please post it in Showcase 1. If you truly feel that your game looks great and is professional, post it in Showcase 2.
* This is a moderated forum- your entry may be moved to a different forum if there is a more appropriate one, or deleted if it does not meet the guidelines.
* When opening a new thread, the title should contain the name of your project, and optionally the release type, e.g.
"Kroko-Mania 3D! - Demo video", "Kroko-Mania 3D! - Demo release", "Reverse the abnormal - Project release"
* When replying: Stick to the original language used and don't mix German/English. Read all previous posts to avoid redundancy. Check your spelling and grammar and contribute something to the post. No "me too"'s !
* Only one thread per game, unless there have been major changes.
* When posting your work here, you expose it to criticism. If you are offended by negative opinions, don't post. When criticizing other peoples's work, don't forget: even making a bad game is a very hard and difficult task."


B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
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Bourne
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 20:08 Edited at: 11th Jan 2006 20:13
Talent or not everybody here is working hard on their games. We're all obviously going to be at different ability levels. Instead of downplaying the games that don't look great why don't you try giving them ideas to make them better?

Yes, I do agree with you. Some of the games aren't nearly developed as they could be. But after playing those games and getting feedback the artists here will figure that out. They'll learn, and it'll make the games better.

I mean, we're all not pros or we'd be coding in C or some other game language and trying to get into Valve or EA. Don't give people a hard time for at least trying.
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 20:24 Edited at: 12th Jan 2006 01:58
Quote: " Talent or not everybody here is working hard on their games. We're all obviously going to be at different ability levels. Instead of downplaying the games that don't look great why don't you try giving them ideas to make them better?

I mean, we're all not pros or we'd be coding in C or some other game language and trying to get into Valve or EA. Don't give people a hard time for at least trying."


heyheyhey. easy with your cattles, mate.

I am not downplaying anyone here except the ppl who dont try hard and dont respect that they should post relevant stuff here as it is written down in the forum rules.

just the ppl who have reached another level should be able to avoid to see all of that. they should be able to choose where they want to hang out. I am a bloody beginner myself when it comes to concrete game development but if someone needs to kick my back because I am steeling your ppl time then pls go ahead! this forum is just not very functional yet but FSPC has the most outstanding potential in game software I have seen so far. a lot of ppl have been waiting for this.

its just veeery annoying to see projects announced that will never be finished because ppl prefer to set up a website instead working on their games. this is not only noobish, its rather disorientated. I´d rather have "work in progress" showcase and another one with tight, finished or almost finished, at least slightly outstanding stuff. its that easy. I disrespect elitist behaviour as you do, this here should be all famileeeeee. some of you are perceiving my posts totally wrong. please take me literally and read them carefully and please check out the conitec servers ( www.gamestudio.com ) before you think I am nuts, ok? there you have it and there it works.

unfortunately my posts delay terribly because of the noob status I still have - so pls be patient.

thanx 4 listening .)

closer to the light

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
audio production servitor / tech editor
s a v e o u r t r a n s i e n t s
bob humid
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 20:26 Edited at: 13th Jan 2006 05:50
Bourne
Quote: "Talent or not everybody here is working hard on their games. We're all obviously going to be at different ability levels. Instead of downplaying the games that don't look great why don't you try giving them ideas to make them better?"


if there would be a possibilty to search for an authors post, you would notice that I just did exactly that in the few days I am here. i am ready to share.

the cattles! the cattles! peace, man. (its a beer not a coffee)

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 20:30
I hardly think you (bob humid) know what constitutes a good game, considering you've only been at the forum a week or two.

I agree with Bourne,
AE
Les Horribres
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Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 13th Jan 2006 02:31
I pushed FPSC hard, although I am NOT a modeler, or texturer, so I don\'t make custom media. Few people here do, but is my game (okay, map, I am going to rebuild the level all over again) the same old ***? The extream work done with light mapping? With all the physics objects, but not hurting the FPS much? With my edited segments that use less polys? I think that you need to reconsiter.

My games are never popular. I don\'t have the jovial spirit to do that, and I just am not able to get people excited.

Merranvo, The Cool One
Noob Justice League, Cause We Have More Fun
Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 09:04
Quote: "I just am not able to get people excited"


The story of my love-life...

AE
uman
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 10:05 Edited at: 13th Jan 2006 10:07
Pro is a bad choice of name I think get the point

I think we should have a showcase Pro when someone has made game or part threof that would warrant needing a Pro showcase.

If you want to argue about what Pro means then it means something that would approach a quality professional commercial title the kind that people shelve out as much money for as they did for FPSC. When someone can demand that kind of money for their game then its a Pro game and will derservedly recieve the title.

Until then theres no point in a Showcase Pro.

I do however pesronally agree that at some stage there may be a need for a showcase or separate thread for games in an advanced stage of development somewhere nearing release that are obviously major works of production could be viewed more directly. That stage is just not here and may not be for some time or ever - someone has to get there first.

As to what would warrant inclusion and who should decide well TGC or someone appointed by them to do so of course. Its their product and Forum.

(yours too)

In fact it may help with promoting good game development with FPSC. Any game could be showcased during development and if you worked hard enough then it might be promoted to the further showcase. Incentive to make your game better.

Personally it makes no difference to me I would use a specific web domain which Ive had but not activated hanging around for 4 years for anything I get advanced I would need to showcase as well as posting anything at this forum.....

Its just more interesting to have two such showcases in my experience from sites like GS as mentioned but thats just my opinion, whatever.

Vlad
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 11:03
Looking around the TGC forums there's no evidence that there's a difference between the projects of newcomers, hobbysts and professionals.

Personally I think it should be that way and stay that way. When it comes to FPSC, and in the context of these boards, it makes even less sense. It is simply not possible to make a pro game. You can have something that looks like, but nothing that feels like, for now at least.

Quote: "I mean, we're all not pros or we'd be coding in C or some other game language and trying to get into Valve or EA."


Bourne, this is a common misconception. I know it's something easilly said and that looks obvious, but it's not. I bet more than half the people that code, design, compose and model for games are not looking for the "big break".

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
uman
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 12:10
Vlad,

I dont look around the other TGC forums a great deal as I would not be interested in using the software so dont know much what goes on there. I have DB though shelved it many years ago. If I was interested in any engine to program my game with it would not be TGC software I dont think. I do use other engines and programme when and where necessary though I dont use them currently in earnest as they are not suitable for my use for other reasons.

Quote: "Looking around the TGC forums there's no evidence that there's a difference between the projects of newcomers, hobbysts and professionals"


Quite, No disrespect meant most are hobbyist level developer quality games at best, making good games is difficult for indies isnt it.

Said my bit and gone.

One showcase, two showcase, makes no difference to me personally at all.

Vlad
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 13:38
Uman... you should try DarkGame. And check some games on the puzzle competition... you would be amazed.

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
uman
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Posted: 13th Jan 2006 15:14 Edited at: 13th Jan 2006 15:16
I am sure I would - however I am not interested personally in puzzle games.

FPSC is enough of a puzzle for me.

I dont have the time to make a game with engines like Dark Game or any other TGC product other than FPSC really as I will be dead long before I finish it. Theres just too many thousands of things to programme for in a complex detailed 3D shooter of any kind with high levels of content and detail in most engines and I need good AI and pathfinding which FPSC will give me without too much difficulty. If I've not got the latter I wont bother at all.

Overall despite much that could use some improvement FPSC suits my need for productivity and it still gives me 30 fps with some difficulty even with massses of content overall. When it stops doing that I'll stop working with it. I cant do fps like 24 fps or below and I am not sure the other TGC products could deliver better and even if so whether I could be productive enough to meet my needs being a single person developer. You tell me. Personally I am not really concerned with the making if you understand my meaning but rather to realsie something being fulfilled even if thats not a great deal. Its the quality that counts to me and if I can get quantity then all the better. A couple of complete levels of the quality I am looking for would be nice. Ive not got there in 10 years or so yet working with most of the well known idie engines and some better ones, but FPSC is doing fairly well (as long as you shut your eyes when you pass any water or anything like that) at the moment along the road. Another year and I should have that demo done.

If I dont use FPSC I would probably continue with my Torque stuff or GS which I still have much more game made with than I do with FPSC. I keep my options open but currently will push FPSC to the max until it stops as I would still prefer to use it over any other engine or I would not do so. Hopefully some improvements will see it reach a higher level of potential that it falls short on.

I could go on but should stop now so will

Whyrag
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Posted: 14th Jan 2006 02:47 Edited at: 14th Jan 2006 02:49
I think they should change the thread "Showcase" to "Screenshots" . There is more screenshots than anything on there. Then, make a thread called " Games" for downloadable games and demo's.

That way people will not have to go through a million and 3 screenshots just to find a game or demo to download and play.
The games that are there get buried by tons of screenshot post.
bob humid
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 00:32
... hmm. after reading all this i am convinced that some of you just overcomplicate the topic. I was not defining "PRO" as "commercially relevant" or "industry-standard".. that´ll be reeeeally naive. we are talking FSPC V1 here... i dunno where this engine will be in a year or so but honestly I wouldnt expect the grafix quality of F.E.A.R in a FSPC title!

what I do expect is that from time to time some of you ppl show up and off with a nice, small ONE LEVEL MINIGAME that has a good flow to it, that features original hi-res textures, decent lighting, original sound-design and some tasteful atmosphear and an ORIGINAL story. it doesnt need to be a 50-level monster that would take you 2 years to complete. i am happy with 1 hour of tasteful gameing-fun, realised by FSPC or a really small 10 room puzzle´n´kill FPS ... think minimal!

i have seen some pretty decent "PRO" looking stuff here, NOT in the way of industry-standard "PRO", but pretty much better looking then some of the shareware or nice price garbage out there. it would be just so practical to find them back if they would be moved to an "outstanding" folder by the moderators.. maybe we call it "ADVANCED" ... yeah, just move the advanced stuff there so we all have a standard to orientate. it will also help other ppl to evaluate what exactly is relevant in a slick looking game.

i am pretty sure you can do a decent minigame with FPSC..

seriously: a timeless title does not have to have the LATEST engine. its about playbility. most if the actual game titles are so redundant t because the team concentrates on the grafical impact instead on the story and atmosphear.. go back in time, get the good old FORSAKEN, and tell me if this is not a cool title for being a vintage rendering engine... if we would have flying vehicles in FSPC we could do something similar. anyone remembers DESCENT 3? that is another great timeless 3D title that you can play over and over again.. UNREAL I,II ... i dont give a frigging damn about the latest 3D chic if it has nice textures, tasteful light, some cool anti-aliasing, good sound, descent physics and dynamic shadows giving live to a good story.

robert

B O B H U M I D @ F A T O F E X C E L L E N C E
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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 13:19 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2006 13:20
There are no games, they are all just cheap demos so I want to get something straight.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE DEMOS!

Demos are for the games that people CAN NOT wait for like the Halo series, giving them a taster. They are even made to make money, get people interested in buying the full game. It's not hard to make 2 more levels and call it a FULL game.

So please people, stop with the noob demos and screenshots. MAKE a full game with screenshots attached.

Thanks
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:06
bob humid, cant you understand that all these games are being made by pro game designers, aged 10-13. The work is so good in fact, that they should all go to the 2006 gaming festivel to showcase their work.

Ahem...

bob humid, could you post any work you have done. 3D Models, levels, any thing pro like? if not, I think you should shut up, and let the kids carry on making their games without some one moaning about them. I think you care to much about them all, stop worrying! Iam sure you have better use of your time. I dont have better use, thats why iam moaning at you like you at the kids.

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