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Dark GDK / SDK? or PRO

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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 05:13
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Hi what are some major differences?

is SDK faster than PRO in terms of performance? In the past i found darkbasic PRO to be quite slow.
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Vlad
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 11:02
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By Pro, you mean DBPro, right?

Assuming so, it's two completely diferent products. DBPro is a language on it's own but uses DirectX. Therefor there is an aditional layer until you get to the "raw power".

The SDK lies on top of DirectX also, but all the C++ programming is done by you, so it is faster, or at least smoother.

Check the DarkGame SDK page, there's a comparasion there.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
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Smithy
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 14:32
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FYI The available commands are the same as in DBPro.
The SDK is based upon the DBPro language.

Performance, I don't know as I've never used DBPro.
The SDK performance is not that bad for a low poly engine.
It depends also on how the DBPro compiler compiles your Basic code.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 18:27
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Dark GAME SDK-
A library of Dark Basic professional commands running above Direct X 9 that you can attach to C++ and code straight from there, you will need some C++ knowledge to use it, and is much faster than DBP

Dark Basic Pro-
Well you should know what that is,

So if you have C++ and have knowledge then I would suggest DGSDK because it should increase your friendship with C++ and you'll have more power and speed at your finger tips

if not
then DBpro


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 20:09
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thanks. i will try to learn C++ again.

how did u guys learn C++ by the way. I tried it in the past but when it came to math( i don't like math), it was just too much for me.

Also, i try very hard from books on C++, and teach myself. So far i was able to teach myself mysql and php, but i think C++ is a completely different story.

Should i learn C++ to take up DB SDK? Is the performance and the power significantly greater than DB Pro?

I know DB Pro is relatively easy to master than C++, but like i mentioned it always ended up running too slow.

I've been with DarkBasic ever since its debut, but I missed out on for it like 2 years. So, now i have to start completely new.

btw, OmegaBasic. This seems like a very interesting program. Has anybody given this a try? Also, FPS creator can you make multiplayer games with it?

Ok, thats basically all the burning questions i had. I don't expect you guys to bother with a noob too much, but i would appreciate it if it could be answered.

Thanks.
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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 25th Jan 2006 20:20
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well, after reading that page comparing DB pro and DB SDK.


Im convinced!!! WOW, if those numbers are really true, then this is going to be awesome.

I think i will try out SDK, but i will probably won't get far.
C++ is a pretty tough language to learn i think.
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Smithy
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 09:08 Edited at: 26th Jan 2006 09:08
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Well, to be at the level I am atm. (say, medium?)
I learned C++ for about three years.

Of course, I had experience with other languages like TurboPascal (in the early days) and Delphi/Object Pascal (which supports OOP) so I were already comfortable with OOP paradigms and that helped me to get into C++.
But I have to say that I prefer C++ to Object Pascal,
IMHO C++ has a very logical syntax, and it doesnt hide stuff like Delphi does, or better spoken, it gives you more freedom to do what you want with your code but this requires that you know what it will do

Hmmm, maybe someone can understand my text above lol

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Vlad
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 11:08
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I'm not a good example but usually is good to know it's possible.

I had previous and in depth Turbo Pascal knowledge, but I had stopped coding for a looooooooooong time. I took C++ syntax and starting coding my first game in a weekend with a book. Been working on it for a bit more than a month and it's in pretty good shape.

My problem is the use (or lack of use) of libraries, I basically use DGSDK, DirectX SDK and stdio and I could win something more if I used others.

But it's possible to have a quick start in C++ if you know programming basics and get a grip with OO.

The only lazy people that can complete games are genius. You don't look like a genius, so you better stop being lazy.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jan 2006 18:12
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Well you need some knowledge of C++, you don't need to be a pro of intermediate to use SDK's but you need to know what you need and how to do it, if you want tutorials, theres links in a sticky in programming talk


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 01:59
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oh well. i guess darkgame SDK is way too hard for me then.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 27th Jan 2006 15:29
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yeah... i really didn't want to say anything, but i think you'd be better off starting out with something that'll require less setup and be more forgiving of mistakes and errors...

DBPro sounds like it might be best for you to start out with...

and you can make fast games with DBPro too...

good luck

--Mike
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 05:44
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DarkGame Software Development Kit, you need to learn math anyways for any type of good programming. To have everything a boolean would result in panamonium.

C++ is really DBP with different commands, be it a bit harder. But much more powerful. Since you already have C++ experiance, it will be all the easier.


Hi Red.

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AlbertoT
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 13:42
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In my opinion performances are not a so important issues at an amateur \ shareware level, there are so many other bottle necks in a game !
I prefer DarkGame sdk because I can finally rid of the ugly (in my opinion of course) DarkBasic Pro programming language
Dont' be scare of C++, You must just grasp the basics,it takes,let's say a couple of monthes , no more
On the contrary I am afraid that Game Creator will drop DarkGame, it does not seem to have been a success
It's a pity

Alberto
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 15:14
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I doubt they'll drop it - especially as it needs upgrading to be usable in 2005

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 15:31 Edited at: 28th Jan 2006 16:40
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Quote: "you need to learn math anyways for any type of good programming."

what does coding in either c++ or DBPro have to do with learning math, or applying math routines in your code... you can use just as much or just as little math if you code in DBASIC or c++... this is a ridiculous statement, i would just ignore it...

Quote: "C++ is really DBP with different commands, "

ahahahahahahaaaaa... i would ignore this too... Merranvo doesn't seem to have any idea of what he is saying here... i think he is trying to say that the sdk is really DPRPo with different commands, though it's not really clear what he's trying to say... irregardless, this also has very little to do with applying it and using the c++ language and the vc++ dev environment...

Quote: "Since you already have C++ experiance, it will be all the easier."

the guy said he will have to learn c++... didn't you read that above... he probably doesn't even know the first thing about coding in c either... if this is a fact, then it's not gonna be easier for him... it's gonna be harder...


unlike what some people would have you believe, c++ isn't the magic cure for all that ails a bad or inexperienced developer (not saying an inexperienced coder is a bad one by nature)... and not knowing the ins and outs of the ubiquitous MS Visual C++ compiler/ide/way of doing things, will quickly drive even moderately experienced c++ coders to talking to themselves...

...plus, therer's a lot more to making a game than writing some code... graphics gotta be made, sound, animations, etc... if he wants to make a game anytime in this meillenia, i'd advise him to start out with a procedurla BASIC language, and get the hang of gamemaking down, while learning c and c++ at a comfortable pace... and to ignore the 'experts' who make statements and assertions that are not based on fact or any extrapolation of fact, or forster viewpoints that have no solid foundation in logical reasoning...
like the one Merranvo just ppresented...

oh yeah... hi...


good points Alberto... i like the ability in c++ to code in OOP as opposed to the linear procedural enforcements of the 'BASIC 3D tools myself... that, and not speed, is the overriding reason i use it when i do...


--Mike
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 17:37
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Quote: "the guy said he will have to learn c++..."

thanks. i will try to learn C++ again.
He has experiance, he just dropped it.

Quote: "ahahahahahahaaaaa... i would ignore this too... Merranvo doesn't seem to have any idea of what he is saying here..."

if (x==1) {x=2;}
if x=1 then x=2
that is what I meant. Sure it gets harder then that, but it isn't too bad.

Quote: "what does coding in either c++ or DBPro have to do with learning math, or applying math routines in your code..."

Everything uses math, this forum counts your posts, it increments the thread numbers. It checks to see if your password is right by an ecryption routine. To not include math is insanity.


Finally, edit is the most powerful programming tool. If you need the IDE to make a simple program, no one can help you. Only parts you should care about is the Compiler, and Syntax Checker.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 18:51
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Quote: "He has experiance, he just dropped it."

nahhh... the way i read it was that he was gonna try again not that he knew it, dropped it, then wants to relearn it... who in the world forgets c or c++ once they've learned it... come on now, get real Merranvo... besides, the questions he's asking doesn't sound like he's done anything in c or c++...

Quote: "if (x==1) {x=2;}
if x=1 then x=2
"

hahahahahahahaaaaaa... like i said... ridiculous...

Quote: "Everything uses math"

right... so why would c++ make a difference... DBPro uses math also... like you said, right...

just trying to help the guy with some straight forward info... and an opinion based on what i see, not what i imagine...

--Mike
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 21:39
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Quote: "hahahahahahahaaaaaa... like i said... ridiculous..."

Please elaborate.

Quote: "right... so why would c++ make a difference... DBPro uses math also... like you said, right..."

Because C++ is faster then DBP. And it is more powerful, has higher lvl commands. And in the most part, can do more. Then again, if you mess with some things you may endup doing something that may be bad...

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Jan 2006 23:09
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c++ is faster!!! hahahahahaaaaa... is that right...

if you don't know what you're doin' c++ code can be as slow or slower than code written in any language...

you also seem have a lot of misconceptions...

--Mike
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Barnski
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Posted: 29th Jan 2006 01:34
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Hello and..
..apropos what you can do wrong in c++...

To give just an example problem which I had to figure out today;
memory leak.



should be changed to this:



or your memory will be soon full
Yes I know, you pros knew that, its just for the others who dont!
cheers

greets,
Barnski

PS; as a new member my posts need approval, but when they appear, the thread is not moving to the top nor is the "last post" changed!!
just wondering why...

-- I just started with DarkSDK, by translating DBP Projects. So please be patient when helping me thanx! --
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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 29th Jan 2006 19:41
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whao... getting a little heated here.


well just to clarify, yes i do have the basics for c++ ok imo, since having them repeated for like 4 times reading several different books.

its just when it gets to the advanced stuff, i tend to give up. but this time, im giving myself another chance to get at least further than before.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jan 2006 00:33
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Actually I agree with red, DBP might be the best idea for you dude, I mean, I lack C++ knowledge myself, I keep on trying, but keep on failing, and am finding myself back to DBP, I think learning that will give you an insight to programming allowing you jump onto the next stage being C++ and DGSDK. To be honest I'll prolly start using C++ again after I graduate uni (4 1/2 years time hopefully, only just started a-levels) where I plan to return to college and study C++ and Music and maybe German as well (Or Japanese depending if I am willing to go into cambridge everyday ) But my parents don't particularly like the idea (psshh my mum hasn't even got a job yet 1 year now after her graduation )


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 30th Jan 2006 18:35
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Quote: "...where I plan to return to college and study C++ and Music and maybe German as well..."


Dude, forget the German thing! The 'deutsch' grammar is extremely confusing, and impossible to learn...

On topic:

I do not have DGSDK myself(but I might buy when an update arrives), but yeah, I think that DBPro would be the best bet. It'll make it a lot easier to learn C++ as you'll learn a lot of programming terms, and you'll get a little idea about how a program is structured. I've been using DBPro for a little over a year, and I've started learning C++, and I can see that it's a lot easier now that I have the basic programming knowledge.

Good luck finding the right language!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jan 2006 19:03
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Quote: "I do not have DGSDK myself"

Nor do I But yeh, basically what we both said, actually I might see if the open university will do C++, because in our school if you do an open uni course you can get out of doing compulsory ICT, and thats boring as hell, I mean the only programming you do is very little in VB to work with databases for Excel.

Quote: "Dude, forget the German thing! The 'deutsch' grammar is extremely confusing, and impossible to learn..."

Actually the grammer makes sense to me, well if I said
Ich habe zu schwimbad gegangen in english with the grammer
I have to swimming pool went, would sound crazy, plus I like german Got a B in it at GCSE


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 30th Jan 2006 21:36
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I got 9 in German, that would be 7 on a 0-10 scale. What about the "der, die, das" thing? The genders of the words is actually impossible to learn.


Quote: "Define:Impossible
"German grammar""


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Smithy
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Posted: 31st Jan 2006 14:14
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Nevermind, many germans cant speak german aswell
("correct" german that is, they even mix up "Der Die Das" hehe)

I should know, we have no defined language for "writing"
so we use German.

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scooby bloke
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Posted: 1st Feb 2006 12:13
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Quote: "c++ is faster!!! hahahahahaaaaa... is that right...

if you don't know what you're doin' c++ code can be as slow or slower than code written in any language...

you also seem have a lot of misconceptions... "


Actually, well written c++ will run a lot faster than well written dbp code. It's possible to write bad, slow code in any language, but if you can write good well structured code then you can squeeze a lot more out of c++...
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Acolyte
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The best advantage to the SDK verses the Pro package is that it is in c++. The only reason I switched is because the sdk allows you to program in c++ which is a superior language and the language of choice of most of todays 3d games. Everything you wanted to do in dbpro is still available in the sdk, but you can also expand by limitless amounts because of the object oriented design of today's c++. It's worth learning because you can use the advanced features of c++ to do amazing things with your game. C++ has things like classes, templates, inheritence, polymorphism, encapsulation, etc. Also keep in mind that you don't have to be a guru to know how to program with the sdk in c++. As you become better and better you can branch off and sort of use the sdk as a stepping stool to bigger and better things. You can make your own commands, improve upon current functions, or totally customize everything. I think you should give it a try. There's plenty of tutorials around on the internet that you can use to learn c++, and it's definitely worth it.

The scarecrow has no mind, but serves its function well.
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