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Geek Culture / Every single possible picture

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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:35
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What's worse is...some people are working on it right now...

http://www.dogsbody.org/fun/monkey.html

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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:36
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No, Robin's right, what the monkeys are typing has to be random.

You could of course have an infinite number of monkeys typing the same thing.

It's like this sequence:

1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1...

There are an infinite number of numbers but there aren't any 2s. If there numbers were random, there would be some 2s.

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Vast games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:44
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Wow! One day and a huge responce! Anyway, time to answer some questions. My math isn't that good so i might get a few things wrong occationaly. Also, i will first try it with a small grid like 8x8 and only using two colours (black and white) just to test it first. Then the vars will be modified to suit the specs I acctualy want. Once I finish it I will have to watch out for a load of angry artists annoyed about me re-producing their work in several thousand diffenent varieties and claiming it as my own. My next calculations will be to work out how long the thing will take to run. Once all planning is done, I need to win the lottery.

Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.
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Vast games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:53
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One more thing! I will probably write a program to work out which catagory each image should be placed in. However, it would be rather rough and most of the job would have to be done by hand. Anyone willing to do slave labour?

I think I should take self defence lessons for when I get lynched!

Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.
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Peter H
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:11
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the real question is, how would you motivate that many monkeys to just sit there and tap away at a typewriter all day?

infinite bananas?

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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Scraggle
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:37
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An 8x8 grid using only black and white would be very easy to do.
Using binary maths you can easily work out that there will be 256 possible combinations of pixels on each row and each column giving a total of 65536 possible images.

Not too difficult. It should only take a couple of minutes to produce the code and seconds to execute it. I don't have DBP on my work computer or I would go for it now.


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Vast games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:42
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I won't be using DB pro on this one. probably something like C++ or some other high level language.

Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:49
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What's wrong with 1 monkey living forever. I'ts just a bit slower.

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re faze
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:56
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128x128 would be best. otherwise you would be facing chaos.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:58
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At what colour depth though? Anything decent and 128x128 would still be way way too much.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 20:00
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I think you guys are also forgetting how long it would take to look at every single image.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 20:04
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Quote: "I think you guys are also forgetting how long it would take to look at every single image.
"

Perhaps we should employ the monkeys?
An infinite amount of monkeys looking at the images could do it in an infinitely small amount of time


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Vast games
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 20:22
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How would you train the monyeys to catagorize them anyway?

Also, stop with the monyeys already!!!

Anything is possible except for skiing through a revolving door.
It's kinda fun to do the impossible.
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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 21:02
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For the record, an infinite number of monkeys would write all of the great books on the first attempt. Randomness, probability, permutations et al has nothing to do with it.

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Robin
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 21:14
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I'm still not convinced

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 21:21
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32 colours (19 Flesh,11 brown, 1 black, 1 white) ..128*128...hmmmm porn!!!

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re faze
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 21:31
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Quote: "I think you guys are also forgetting how long it would take to look at every single image.
"

that could be negated if you employed lots of people to look at the pics and sort them out and retrieve the good ones.

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Scraggle
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 22:14
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An 8x8 grid with only 10 colours would produce 100,000,000,000,000 different images. That's 100 billion (unless your American). So, whilst 8x8 black and white is marginally feasable, anything more rapidly gets out of hand!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 23:24
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Quote: "I think you guys are also forgetting how long it would take to look at every single image."
Damn. That must have been the post that got lost. I said the same thing on page one. At least I thought I did. Rats.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Becky
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 23:44
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The internet has already proven that monkey theory incorrect.
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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 23:59
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Quote: "The internet has already proven that monkey theory incorrect"


The internet isn't an infinite resource. An infinite resource can cover every permutation in one instance.

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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 00:16
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this sounds a little on the crazy side of things, but its still a good idea. And i think it'll take many years to get EVERY SINGLE PICTURE coded.
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Izzy545
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 00:41
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Well the idea isn't to hard-code every single picture... I think the idea is to make a program that has the capability to generate every single picture.

Check out my books
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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 00:45
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Quote: "Damn. That must have been the post that got lost. I said the same thing on page one. At least I thought I did. Rats."

Oops I didn't see that. If ya all knew that you could have been rich like gill bates oops it's grilled bait. My bad dazzaqdude oops sorry again pilchard gravy!

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 00:50
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Why can't anyone understand infinity? Infinity means that all improbablilitys are possible no matter how improbable they are.

lets look as some math

1/infinty * infinity = 1 good book

as 1/infinity represents the chances of a monkey writting a good book, and infinity represents the number of monkeys, there is no doubt that 1 of them will recreate a good book.

For a better example, look at e.

e = (1+1/infinity)^infinity
although that 1/infinity is extreamly insignifigant (better noted as infintesimal), it's signifigance comes when you times it together an infinit times.

Thus, the statment is true, get over it.



The chess statment... is false. given that atleast 1 plr is trying to win, and moves are not alowed to be repeated for the sake of delaying the game. Eventually a peice will get
a) trapped
b) killed

And even playing defensive will result in an eventual trapping/killing of the peices, given that you don't repeat moves. ANd as you only have 8 pawns, you don't have an infinite amount of pieces to returect, on top of that, while traveling to the other side, the probablility of them getting there gets very low.

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Support Merra XJ9, cause the name is cooler.
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Oneka
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:28
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HM
SOMEONE SHOULD DO IT..

Due to my calculations...

A 32x32 using RGB (256 each)

would have this outcome 17179869184 different images...SOME PORN


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 03:06
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Quote: "A 32x32 using RGB (256 each)"

If you mean a 256 color 32x32 image, then you would have a lot more combinations than you think..

256 ^ (32 * 32) = 1,0907481356194159294629842447338e+2466

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Oneka
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 03:28
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nah just 3 colors sets that range from 0 to 256....either way I did it wrong....damn calculator and not being able to do powers....


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Dave J
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 06:46
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Of course an infinite number of monkeys could all be typing the same thing, but when you consider that 2 monkeys won't type the same thing. What's the chance of an infinite number of monkeys doing it? 1/Infinity!


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 09:53
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People don't need to understand infinity. It is just some gobbledygook made up to explain more gobbledygook.

The only infinate thing is the universe. It not doing much typing at the moment. It just shudders a bit.

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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 12:07
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So by your definition, the universe is Gobbledygook?

Quote: "Of course an infinite number of monkeys could all be typing the same thing"


By definition, every connotation (ie every book) is held by a smaller object (a monkey) with the infinite resource (an infinite number of monkeys). So if they don't write every book, you don't have an infinite number of monkeys at your disposal.

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Dodic
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 12:47
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i suggest at least starting of 320*240 , becouse eaven 320*240 would be biiig...

--Dodic--
Don`t try to SEE the future , try to MAKE the future the way you like it.
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 16:12 Edited at: 7th Feb 2006 16:17
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OK...let's put it into manageable figures...

A greyscale (256 shades), 2 x 2 image. That's 4.2 billion permutations, and is the size of the following 4 full-stops -> ....

For an image the size of 8 full stops, you will get 17.6 billion permutations -> ........

For an image the size of 16 full-stops, a 4x4 image, you get 310 billion permutations, and now you have covered this much image space, excluding the white space inbetween -> ::::::::

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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 19:31
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Quote: "People don't need to understand infinity"


WTF? What about calculus? And infinite series/products?!

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 19:55
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You are not really applying a use for the knowledge, so my quote is correct.

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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:14
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No use for calculus?!

What about literally every piece of engineering for the last 100 years?

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David T
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:16
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Quote: "WTF? What about calculus? And infinite series/products?!"


Quote: "You are not really applying a use for the knowledge, so my quote is correct."


Haha, you two are really in a battle of wills now.

Is it just me who things that geometric series and sums to infinity are quite weird? The way you can place a number of the sum of an infinite series. The beauty of maths.

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Robin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:18
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Maths is quite wierd

http://www.robinsgames.com | robin@robinsgames.com

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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:19
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Quote: "Haha, you two are really in a battle of wills now."


Not so much a battle of wills than Pincho declaring something ridiculous and me taking a deep breath and wondering whether I have the strength to reply.

Quote: "Is it just me who things that geometric series and sums to infinity are quite weird? The way you can place a number of the sum of an infinite series. The beauty of maths."


Yeah it's coolio-tastic.

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Dodic
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:25
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I think that math is actually incorect in some parts , like you can get this resoult when deviding or doing some other mathematical operations

1,212321232123...-endless row , endless pattern that is .

or some more complicated pattern :

1,241324132413241324132413....

but it can also happen that it can be like :

1,212321232123.... (and a lot of same pattern) and then .... 9

but we can`t actually prove it , becouse i don`t remember anyone actually writing endless row of numbers , just to see if the logic will fail him.

that`s why we have computers though , but they can`t calculate endless numbers as well ..

and also , what are endless numbers ? how can`t we explain it ?
if we can`t explain it by math , it "means" that math is actually incorrect .


sorry , i`m now totaly of the topic , and i`m saying something that has no sence , sorry again .

--Dodic--
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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:29
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Quote: " I think that math is actually incorect in some parts"


Don't worry, I assure you that every single piece of accepted maths has been unarguably proved.

I'm pretty sure I could prove/explain anything you want to do with irrational/recurring numbers if you would like...

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David T
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:33 Edited at: 7th Feb 2006 20:33
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Quote: "Not so much a battle of wills than Pincho declaring something ridiculous and me taking a deep breath and wondering whether I have the strength to reply."


Quote: "Don't worry, I assure you that every single piece of accepted maths has been unarguably proved."


No offence, but you sound quite up yourself.



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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:52
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?

I don't mean to be, was just trying to explain that there are absolutely no holes in Maths. That guy seemed genuinely confused.

Surely better than "A MISTAKE IN MATHS?!?! What are you a f**king AMERICAN?!?!? Get out of here you poo"

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David T
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 21:01
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Sorry, was just messing, it just looked that way from reading the debate with pincho then the above comments.

No hard feelings

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 22:28
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I get were he's coming from(the guy who thinks that there's a hole in Math). But he's still wrong, if a number has enough decimals that repeat(like 1000 decimal places) there is a possiblility of it not repeating eventually, but really... who cares you'll be able to use the number on a Math test or in a formula as a never ending number and get the right answer or result.

There is no hole in Maths if you think that somthing like 10/3 is not a repeating number then go prove it. I'll see you in infinity years.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

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Robin
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 22:47
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Quote: "The only infinate thing is the universe"


Is time infinite?

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Dodic
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 22:49
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I said , becouse of infinate number of numbers in some well calculations and so.... i , well i think that people didn`t ever calculated all the numbers to see if it has an logical ending and correct ending , why ? - becouse you can`t write infinite number of numbers.

I really can not possibly belive that humain rase developed something 100% perfectly correct (math) , so maby not in what i try to explain , but i think math can NOT be without any holes. (though i`m not trieing to prove that becouse i`m not sure i belive in what i said too , but ...) .
Humain rase is possibly the smartest rase in galaxy or universe , BUT that doesn`t mean its capable of producing something with such complexity to be 100% correct in EVERY field , WIHTOUT any possible as you like to call it "hole"

and no , i`m not American , Im from Serbia . - but i will say no more word about my nacionality becouse this is NO place to discuss nationality.

J'aime également le français cependant. J'apprends quatre langues comprenant: Serbian, L'Anglais, Allemand, Français. It`s dur, mais lui est bon pour savoir que vous savez puis 2 langues.

in translation something like : I also like French , something about languages i learn , and that is well it...

--Dodic--
Don`t try to SEE the future , try to MAKE the future the way you like it.
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Manticore Night
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 23:19
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You translated that on one of those half a$$ed translation sites, didn't you. The part were it says "It`s dur" kinda gives it a way.

First off, math was not created my humans, it was created by nature, it's everywere and the basis for EVERYTHING!

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

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Dodic
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yes , i did , but i didnt wrote that in French to show off , i really learn French and i like it.not like German witch i kind of hate (sorry to all who are from Germany) , and i also love English.

Quote: "First off, math was not created my humans, it was created by nature, it's everywere and the basis for EVERYTHING!
"


what ?

hm...i didn`t know math was created by nature...thank`s for letting me know...so we just discovered math that allready was there ?

If you can say that math was there and created by nature and just "discovered" by people , then people DID ABSOLUTELY nothing , then we only "discovered" everything we have so far (including tehnology).

Well , yes , you are right that math was there .. it was allways logicall that when you add one stick to two (example) , you`l have three on a row...

but people formulated mathematick , so you can say that they invented it..

--Dodic--
Don`t try to SEE the future , try to MAKE the future the way you like it.
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David T
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 23:56
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Interesting question. Is Maths discovered or invented?

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