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3 Dimensional Chat / in case your bored check this out...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 09:23
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The Goblin

Modeled, Textured by David Komorowski (DaveK)
within the relatively unknown packages Photoshop and Maya ... just thought you'd all like to see something cool

- just incase you're wondering from what i've been told by my mate the Hobbit at the computer is Dave's self portrait hehee, he's being doing this stuff for almost 10years and is currently working at Walt Disney Studio's

but enough about how illustrious this guy is, just checkout the animation - it cracked me up ... this guy is good at it, VERY good
Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 13:36
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cool i'm sending this url to my younger brother, he models this kind of high poly stuff in xsi for an advertising house, he wanted to get into maya rather than xsi but that's what the company insisted on and i'm sure he'd be jealous as sin.. Do you know what kind of gear was used to capture the motion?

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 14:07
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*goes cross eyed*
*shouts*
*smiles*
*repeats endlessly*

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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John H
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 12th Mar 2003 14:09
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Wow thats really really nice

RPGamer

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy! Oh ya, and Tat has a plugin for that!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 16:06
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he's like me... traditional animator - doesn't believe in motion capture

so that might explain why i believe that this is impressive as hell (^_^)
i like XSI, its really mostly a spin off of Maya anyways - the layout of it is alot easier to work around, but Maya has alot more features to simplfy some aspects of modeling

if he's piss'd about having to use XSI, i have to bloody use Max5 at work when i'm a Maya kiddie - no doubt you can tell him that and he can have a good laugh

i've just contacted a new lass about some artwork of hers - i'll be showcasing that here too cause she is an upcomming serious player to the industry ... and is direct competition to myself so i kinda wanna make friends of her

but she has some seriously MAD photoshop skills

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Jimmy Cool
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 18:23
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raven it looks like you

***********************************************
Me, i'll just be here crying my brains out
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 18:00
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Well yes that does make it more impressive, but I have to disagree with your point about capturing motion:
Admittedly, nearly everything I've seen done using "traditional" motion capture systems sucks bigtime, but some guys i know use gear they made themselves bizzarre methods and equipment, and you could literally mold a mesh like clay in realtime.
The way his mouth was moving (goblin) I could see the way you could assign weighted points around the mouth and have those points controlled by your fingertips, well sorta like a detailed muppet. That would give real expressive control and make it a lot of fun to use. Like anything, it's often in the way you mess with something, not the way it's designed to be used...
It's like the age old mac vs pc argument, in the end it's the talent of the user that matters, not the stoopid machine. It's probably fair to say that some of those with access to motion capture aren't nessecarily the most talented or innovative people to use it, they are just the ones who can afford it...
Don't diss equipment, it don't care!!

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 18:21
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Heh, my brother feels for ya raven, he's having to import 3 year old work done in max and translate it to xsi, yet the clients want it to LOOK LIKE IT DID IN MAX!!! Talk about stoopid, like I said above, if that's what they want then they should just keep it in max, idiots. It's all because they wanna be able to say, "well yes we had this transferred to a better modelling package so it's better mr CEO", like mr CEO even knows what that involves..
I mean, they're making a stoopid casino console thing that's gonna fail anyway, but I guess when you have a lot of money invested in something you can be blind to it's failings (like the average mac user...) DUCK and COVER!!!!

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 20:56
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oh don't get me wrong Motion Capture in the right hands is cool ... and i've been known from time to time to don the ping-ping gear to get certain results within a time limit, but when all is said and done i hate using it
thats just me really - but i don't consider it REAL animation i'm afriad, not really any skill involved ... i mean obviously you need to know howto rigg a model, but to animate anything you need to.

and lol ... Dan that is the biggest problem i've ever noticed working - everyone you is incharge and demanding the work, doesn't have a bloody clue about what it involves. However recently i've found a New Render'r (which your Bro made have heard of) called Messiah:Render

i mean i have Splutterfish Brazil which is good, but this new one which i've been trying so hard to get the beta of works in Softimage XSI, Max 4/5, Maya3/4/5 & Lightwave 6/7

and it make Brazil look like a basic render engine
i'll show some pictures later - i wonder which packages does your brother like more?

i mean personally i love Maya, god knows why cause i can barely use it anymore - but i just love the way you develop in it
begining to get used to Max's quirky nature and now, i think i can safely say i've actually come to like it alot ... Lightwave is still a grey area for me, and Softimage i like but not had many opertunities to use it.
lastest trueSpaces are alot of fun to use too - not something i'd wanna work seriously in, but good

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Kjetil
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 22:11
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let's see some images, raven.

let's see if they beat maya default render. :-P

- Kjetil
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KamaKase
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 22:28
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...holy goodness that's good.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 03:48
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grr... one of the mods delete the post above - i hate it when that happens

i'm gonna grab the pics and upload them to my webspace ... bloody stupid forum

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 04:02
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Well what about a system where you control character limbs by holdind a crossbeam in your hands much like what that french artform does... someone french help me out O.K if you've seen Being John Malkovich the male protagonist is fantastic at it.. Marrionettes? not sure what the act of controlling one is called, I guess in english marioneteer or sommat... but anyhow, I guess it ends up as word semantics, like maybe we think of the word "animation" to mean separate things, like how all 3d art that is shown on a screen is actually 2d art created in a simulation of a 3d environment, by definition a screen or piece of paper has only 2 dimensions...
The industrial light and magic team in the earlier (later) movies of star wars used their hands to control animatronic characters, and filmed them against a backdrop... The cells of that film to me represent an animation, animation in this case meaning any sequence of images which when flipped can produce the effect of movemnent:
Warner bros cartoons (bugs bunny, etc...)
early anime (astroboy, g-force/battle of the planets etc..)
are hand drawn animations.

I guess what you mean is the equivalent of that particular process... gotta go my girlfriend just showed up..

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 06:56
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finally some working links
and the word is puppeteer or puppetmaster (thats what a marionettier) ... and there are several animation programs capable of that kinda animation, such as AnimationMaster (which is a bitch to use, but good if you can)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 07:09
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well back again..
Actually now i see your screenies my brother sent me some promo stuff for this renderer like that droid on the table thing, animated, it was to show off the realism, seriously anyone whose interest is peaked by the above shots should check out that animation with the little clay guy it's done like it was a crappy hand held video camera using autofocus, and it's VERY realistic. Sorry I don't have a url but maybe Raven knows... Fantastic, envelope pushing stuff.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 07:44
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lol... well i've heard off and on about this renderer on the Max scene for like the past year - but i only actually learn of its name from someone 2days ago

and i've been using all my waking hours, and some not awake trying my damnest to find this legendary beta ... it seems worth the $1,000 price tag, but if i'm gonna spend that much then i wanna atleast try it out to see how i get on with it - i mean atleast i have Brazil and i have my own Radiosity Renderer

you know thats a point, it's going to be retailed soon - and i'm wondering
a) what a fair price for a Milkshape Renderer would be
b) what should i bloody call it??

there are a few things left to do ... it'll be shown off at milkshape's forums soon - so keep you eyes peeled
i was thinking probably release a watermark version, with cutdown features - like single iteration raytracing and such ... but also a registered version for like $200/£120

once it has been shown for the first-time on Milkshape i'll show more about it here (it was kinda a deal i made)

right now its features are:

BufferBox Rendering (16/32/64/128px)
Global Illumination
Reflect/Refract/Shadow Raytracing
3 Types of Lightsource - Daylight/Omni/Point
SoftShadows (still in development)
AntiAliasing Filter (still in development)
Scene Radiosity (still in development)

there are still some things i want to addin sometime later, suchas

Fog Linear/Volumetic/Exponencial/Pixel
Shaders Rendering (Pixel, Vertex, Time & Light)
Depth of Field
Light Effects (glow/streak/focus/coherance)
Output to Video Formats

i mean it is for Milkshape so i'm unsure to if people will even buy it, or just wait until Milkshape2 - but even if they don't it'll still be the backbone of gameSpace's rendering.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Odyssey
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 08:45
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That goblin kicks a$$!
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 09:48
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ultramegaphotoneruptorblastomaticolux

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 09:48
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But it'd have to be reeeeeeal god!!

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Kjetil
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 10:00
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raven;

how about render out in layers, z-depth,alpha,specular,reflection..etc.

How do you do the GI?

HDRI(how about faki'n it)?

- Kjetil
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 11:01
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the GI is being done in engine using Photons and Causistic Photons (specifically enhanced with NV30-35 based cards)
each of the lights are automatically assigned 116 photons - i know doesn't sound like much but to keep rendering quick is more than enough for now, but can be altered in engine to a more reasonable 1,000 or something for better results.

The engine takes these photons and spreads them evenly over the space allocated for the light ... it will then subdivide the light up over all the object and checks for the Causistic movements

once this is done it then does a second pass which then checks to see what light has come back from the surface properties at a slower speed (approx 0.925) - where they collide is the distance vector for the illumination of the object from that point and covers a density across the surface's it affects based on its strength and coverage

i know its probably one of the most convoluted ways of caluclating GI you've no doubt heard before, but it actually ties into the Radiosity calculations this way allowing me to just enhanced on the process already started

however i'm looking into the layering - because one of the major things i prefer Maya & XSI over Max and Lightwave is the ability to export each layer flawlessly from a single render ... but more importantly the fact you can actually do alot of compositing without requiring several passes of the same scene.

So like if you want to do a smoke, but you want to render it on its own layer around the templates of objects - in Maya you just throw it in another render layer, setup the renders one after each other and then export as a composite... it spends less time calculating raytraced reflections for the particles and such because they don't use them and so that portion of the engine isn't even engaged

there are alot of clever things i'd like to include over time - and rest assured anything mentioned will go onto a 'todo' list and will be in a later version

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 13:33
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Sounds good, any shots of it in action?

If it's set up like that raven you should be able to implement something like
"rerender partial volume"
...
Let me know if you get the idea if not i'll go into it, typing no fun...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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kfoong
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 14:09
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WHOA! Impresive animation! How long did it take make for the creator to make this do you know?

--------
I HAVE SOME IDEA HOW TO PROGRAM DARK BASIC!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 14:13
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actually for once... i don't have a clue what something is.
'rerender partial volume' is...?

and i'm not sure kfoong, probably one of his week projects

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 16:36
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Well it's nothing yet, but seeing as you're making this yourself, the idea was along the lines that you could rerender only part of the scene that had changed but in a volumetric way using a combination of layer teqniques et al... the basic use of it would be not limited to but go something like:

I render my verry complicated scene, it takes overnight to complete... now i come back from my favourite nighthaunt later next day and i notice FUCK!! that sux but i like that, jeez but if i change the bit i hate it'll affect the bit i like...not to mention take another 6 hrs or whatever to rerender. soooo I make a new object in my scene, an object which surrounds the volume of my hated object/particlesystem/etc and I assign this object a special property which is that the photons in your renderer only occur within that object, which is itself of course invisible...
now the renderer uses the camera to make an alpha from this new volume, and composites it back in my scene, along with replacing anything higher up in the z-buffer...

I'm sure you get the idea, could be real usefull for sfx the ways you could use it would be myriad. It would add a unique functionality to your renderer and make people have no choice but to buy it if they wanted said functionality...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 16:39
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Thogh no picnic to code

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 02:39
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lmao... i think i'll leave that for a while - but a Selection Buffer Render, sure that can go in ther

shouldn't be too hard, just a matter of refineing what is actually to be rendered - right now the render does all the objects within the visible scene, which is slow.
but is still better than nothing

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 09:41
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Tehehe
oh yes, the magical renderer....sigh
Couldn't resist, my brother and I have dreamed of that for years...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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