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Geek Culture / Dogs being kept outside

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Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:10 Edited at: 26th Feb 2006 12:10
What do you guys think about this? Where I live at uni, the house 2 doors down has some massive dog with a purpose built kennel outside. It lives there, chained up, probably as a guard dog. As far as I know, it's never walked - just let off the lead now and then to run around the streets for a few minutes (sometimes ending up in our back garden). Here's a pic:



The garden varies in how crappy it is. The dog is well fed, but spends a lot of time barking and a lot of time crying aswell. What's worse is the neighbour closest on that side (1 door down) seems to have jumped on the bandwagon and now has a small puppy chained up in there garden. At the moment it's probably oblivious to this situation so its running around happily playing on its own with the crap that's in their garden (old car parts, broken bottles etc.). It's chain is much shorter though (10 feet tops) so it can't go far and is still learning not to strangle itself on it when it runs too far away.

You might've guessed I don't approve of this. I personally think if you're gonna have a dog, it's your responsibility to look after it's physical AND mental welfare, which means giving it love etc. Living outside is not so bad if it gets to be with people or other dogs out there, but locked in a skanky back garden for all its life, just seeing people to get fed, is wrong to me. As a deterant, they would be more effective inside the house as well, where they can guard the entire house.

What do you guys think?

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Dave J
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:21
Agreed, but unfortunately there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it.


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SirFire
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:26
It's a sad situation. There are things you can do, but only one of them is legal: talk to the dog's owner and try to influence him/her to be a better owner.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:33
Quote: "There are things you can do, but only one of them is legal: talk to the dog's owner and try to influence him/her to be a better owner."


Or talk to the Rspca.

Dave J
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:40
Trust me, it'll take months for anything to be done about it, and even then that's if you're lucky. Most of the time, nothing will become of it.


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SirFire
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:41
The rspca probably can't help b/c the dog is in good health, and is not being physically abused. There are no laws I've ever heard of that say you have to be friendly to your pets.

David T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:45
Talk to the RSPCA. Dogs need caring for, love and attention. They need to know they're part of a pack. Being left alone like that is dreadful. Sure, perhaps for a few hours a day it cacn be let free in the garden - for exercise - but it can't live all day there.

Talk to the RSPCA.

- a loving dog owner

Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:48 Edited at: 26th Feb 2006 12:52
The RSPCA have some weird Freedom ethic. Like, freedom from physical harm, freedom from starvation, freedom from fear and a freedom from distress. Something like that. The dog cries most of the time, so I think that'd come under distress. I've considered doing the RPSCA thing before I leave (in July) when there can't be any comeback from the family. The problem is, you never know how people will react, so I thought it'd make sense to get the ball rolling, then leg it!

Unfortunately, I think you guys are right. It's probably too hard for them to do anything because physically the dog is fine. I think I'll feel guilty if I just leave when uni is done and let it live out the last years of its life in the same skanky back garden doing absolutely nothing but barking,crying and pacing up and down.

Edit: My parents have dogs, and we've always had dogs in our family. Our dogs have a great time, get played with all the time, 3 walks a day, have toys and really comfy beds in the house (live like royalty) but are also obedient, don't go upstairs and don't beg for food or anything. I can't help comparing their life to this dogs life and thinking if the family just gave a sh*t, that dog could so easily have a better quality of life.

SirFire
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 12:52
Well I think you should talk to the rspca regardless of whether they can take action or not, they will surely talk to the owner, and that is better than nothing.

Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:02
Yeah. When I go outside for a smoke, I lean over the fence and tell him he's only got a few months to wait and then the RSPCA will be in town. It bothers me a bit that my housemates think its bad but quite happily ignore it.

Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:02
people need to clean up their backyards.


Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:08
Call the RSPCA and just be anymouse when calling!!!

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:14
Hang on, isn't there something about not allowing your dog to roam the streets unattended? In case they attack someone?

If that's true, it might be enough to help the RSPCA get a headstart.
Wiggett
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:20
my 3 dogs are stuck in a 3 meter by 1.5 metter section of yard while our construction work is going on, poor things they are like 12 yrs old now, i really should walk them but i am lazy and hardly ever home :/ oh and for anyoen to know they are mini foxies so they are small enough to run around but it is very little space and they are big poop machines. mum usually lets em out in the yard to run around a bit but with house frame having gone up they cane really go far.

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Joh
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:28
Dude,call the RSPCA or any other animal protection services. The dog maybe physically healthy and maybe no legal action can be brought upon the owners for leaving it constantly chained and in those conditions, but in most countries this warrants a visit by RSPCA officers, to inform and educate the owners. It also puts them on a watch list if the officers feel that the situation might become worse.
At least an anonymous call.

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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 13:41
Indeed - the RSPCA is the way to go. Not being kept warm, and walked regularly is not very nice.

Jeku
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 19:39
Quote: "Living outside is not so bad if it gets to be with people or other dogs out there, but locked in a skanky back garden for all its life, just seeing people to get fed, is wrong to me."


I don't understand-- what's the problem? A dog doesn't care about a "skanky" back garden. If the leash was too short, then that's a problem. But dogs have been on leashes and tied up in back yards ever since dogs have been domesticated.

And what's the difference between that or leaving the dog inside the house while the owner's gone to work all day anyways? The dog will still be "lonely" in that sense of the term.

And excuse me if I'm wrong, but here if you call the SPCA on a dog and they take it away from the owner, if the dog doesn't find a new owner within X amount of days he will be put to sleep.

Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 21:37
Quote: "A dog doesn't care about a "skanky" back garden."


You don't know that. I'd say judging by the excitement of my dogs when they go to a new environment (e.g. the beach, or someone elses house, or a new walk when you're on holiday), dogs are acutely aware of their environments. That's probably why the dog goes mad with excitement when it's let off to run around the streets.

Quote: "And what's the difference between that or leaving the dog inside the house while the owner's gone to work all day anyways? "


Heat, comfort, dryness. The dog will still be loney when they're at work, but it won't be lonely when they're at home, where as this dog is lonely all the time, except for when it gets fed.

The RSPCA will only take the dog away in extreme cirumstances. They're more likely to attempt to "educate" this family and will check up on them to see if they improved it quality of life, and only after a while take it away. Our RSPCA is quite well funded as well and is probably assisted by the other charity dog foundations we have (some of which claim dogs are never put down).

It's all culture and how you've been brought up I think. Many people would agree with you that dogs are dogs, they live out side, and that's how it is. They're simple animals and they're happy enough like that. I'm just inclined to strongly disagree because I believe dogs are intelligent, have fairly strong emotions, and the fact that dog cries all the time suggests its in distress.

No personal attack against you, as you've only posted one post in this thread but I do think people who lack a certain degree of compassion for animals probably lack a similar degree of compassion for humans.

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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 21:56
Only the RSPCA will be able to determine whether QOL is being breached - give 'em a call and get them to visit.

Jeku
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Posted: 26th Feb 2006 23:05
Quote: "Heat, comfort, dryness. "


Dogs are more adept at cold, wet climates than humans with rain/fur coats! That's what their coat of fur is for. Given the dog has a doghouse to sleep, there's *nothing* mean or inhumane about leaving a dog outside 24/7. Obviously it's good to take him out for walks, but that's just rhetorical--- a good dog owner needs to give his dog exercise or the dog will go crazy

Quote: "but I do think people who lack a certain degree of compassion for animals probably lack a similar degree of compassion for humans."


Well I'm under the belief that a "skanky" yard makes no difference to a dog. Where there are clear cases where a dog is being tortured, i.e. a 1 foot leash, then I'd have issues. But because a dog is lonely and barks/cries--- well, dogs tend to do that all the time when their owners go to work. It's not like the owner needs to hire a dog nanny heheh..

ionstream
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 01:28
Quote: " Dogs are more adept at cold, wet climates than humans with rain/fur coats! That's what their coat of fur is for."


Just because they can survive in harsh climates, doesn't mean that it's comfortable. And their fur coats do not protect them from heat and dryness.

TKF15H
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 02:41 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 04:00
I agree with Jeku here. To us the scene looks ugly, but to the dog it ain't so bad. It probably cries due to loneliness, which is something the owner probably can't do much about.
If the chain is long enough, it's fine. o_O
The dog is obviously healthy so his only problem is emotional. Get him some anti-depressants!

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Peter H
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 02:52
Well, i don't have any problem with keeping a dog outside, but that owner is also keeping his dog in a junk yard, granted the dog doesn't need a pretty place, but i'm pretty sure dogs enjoy things like grass... (our dogs sure do... )

if you're going to keep a dog tied up then you should at least take it on walks... even if just because it needs excersize... or just don't get a dog in the first place... because if you just leave it outside on a chain all day, and only visit it to feed it... why did you get it in the first place? a gaurd dog?... buy a machine gun sissy...

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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 03:22
Maybe the dog did something bad and is on punishment....
could of shiited on the carpet

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Lynx
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 06:39
Quote: "Well I'm under the belief that a "skanky" yard makes no difference to a dog."

Yeah, the dog probably doesn't care too much. But you can't say the dog wouldn't enjoy a cleaner environment, more attention, and more exercise, which is what.. I assume, Fallout is trying to give him.

Quote: "Given the dog has a doghouse to sleep, there's *nothing* mean or inhumane about leaving a dog outside 24/7."

That's saying that a dog doesn't have feelings. If you've ever had a dog yourself you would see that they are happy, sad, feel pain, and have a mind of their own. Of course, the owners circumstances might need the dog to stay outside.. but looking at that junk yard I don't think so.

I have a dog.
JoelJ
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 07:05
Quote: "That's saying that a dog doesn't have feelings"

no it isn't... where is it saying that? i've read that quote about 3 times now, still can't see where it says dogs don't have feelings.

You have inside dogs, you have outside dogs. If a dog is raised as an outside dog, they really don't care. they can roam (part of their nature, they LIKE freedom) he can sleep in his little house.

I mean, if that dog was raised inside, trained to be an inside dog, always with people, etc. it would be rude to leave them outside all the time. But i doubt that's the case with that dog.


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Van B
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 08:49
Dogs are supposed to have clean drinking water at all times when chained up anywhere. I can only see an up-turned dish there. I think the RSPCA would probably just ask them to tidy the garden, then if they didn't they'd consider taking the dog.

Thing is, people tend not to have dogs outside that could land them in jail, the owners obviously think the dogs fine - maybe it just needs for them to be made aware of what they're doing.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 10:32
For those reading, please remember the British are notorious for being pet lovers, possibly more so than any other culture. A quick glance at the 'Location's of the people posting in favour of the dog getting reported sort of confirms this.

I suppose the bottom line is - few of us here are dog psychologists, so it will probably be best to call the RSPCA to ask their advice. They'll know better than most of us what is and is not damaging to a dog's wellbeing.

The letting the dog loose on the streets though - I'm almost sure that's a no-no, especially with a dog that gets limited human contact.
Fallout
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 11:13
Quote: "a gaurd dog?... buy a machine gun sissy..."


bwahahaha. This would do the same job and be legal. http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/search.do?productCode=ROODEF

Quote: "The letting the dog loose on the streets though - I'm almost sure that's a no-no, especially with a dog that gets limited human contact. "


The first time I saw it in our back garden I think I crapped my pants! It's probably really friendly and would love to come over and say hello, but it's too big to risk it. It stood about 10 foot from the kitchen window, staring in for about 30 seconds then legged it.

Just to ellaborate on where I stand on this though - it's not keeping the dog outside. That was a poor choice of title really. I don't have a problem with a dog being kept outside, so long as its a breed that can be comfortable in the environment (don't keep a skinny racing dog outside in Alaska for example! ). It's just the crying.

I'm pretty sure in the wild dogs don't spend all day crying, because they're pack animals and would be in a pack with company. I know my parents dogs don't spend all day crying because people are not out for more than 5 hours at a time, and they get 3 walks a day. The dogs live downstairs (can't go upstairs), and whenever I'm home, sometimes I don't come downstairs in the morning until late afternoon. Normally by that time they've been on their own sinse 8:00am. I very rarely him them cry/moan. They just lie there patiently for someone to come home. This is the same when we had one aswell.

The only time the dogs whine/moan is when they know it's time for a walk or it's leading up to dinner time. And that's more excitement as they're normally bounding about the place - not sorrowfully sitting in the corner.

To me, it's not natural for a dog to be chained all the time. It violates its natural instinct for freedom. I'd say by keeping it indoors, we're violating the same freedom, but by walking the dog 3 times a day, we counteract that violation. If you chain a dog, but walk it often and let it off, I'd say that goes someway to counteracting it aswell. Similarly, it's unnatural for a dog to be on it's own. It needs other dogs, or human contact. This is so obvious (you just gotta watch a few wildlife programmes) for the way dogs try to please their owner, try to cuddle up to them, nuzzle them, and bound about like crazy fools when you're around! I've never known a dog that doesn't greet his owner when they come in the front door.

It's subjective, I suppose, to what degree you think this is true, and also how much you care. It's simply that a dog that spends all day and night barking and crying to me has a low quality of life. Inside or outside. There's another guy down the street that has two MAAAHOOOOSIVE dogs which he keeps outside, but he's a mechanic. He spends all day at the front of his house working on cars and the dogs plod around and watch the world go by. They seem really content as their master is about and they have each other. They're not suffering the solitary confinement.

SirFire
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 11:16
What is that dog supposed to be guarding anyway, the junk?

adr
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 13:43 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 13:44
Quote: "What is that dog supposed to be guarding anyway, the junk?"


My thoughts exactly. Not one but two old matresses. sexxaaaay. You know what that dog needs? Love? Attention? Hell no - try a lethal injection. Here's my angle:

In my eyes, people who can't afford/be arsed to clean up their backyard also can't afford/be arsed to take care of a dog. That is demonstrated quite well with the chaining up thing, the barking and crying. So, for the dog's, the owners' and the neighbours' benefit, the dog should be put down.... or sent off to a farm, far far away.

* I'm not a dog person, fyi.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 14:22
Quote: " I dont think region has to do anything with having compassion for your pets, tinkergirl."

I do.

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Peter H
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 14:28
Quote: "It's probably really friendly and would love to come over and say hello, but it's too big to risk it."

heh, most dogs like me... i've only had one bite me... and it was an (illegal) "half wolf" dog... (no really, man that thing is scary...)

but then again i don't try my luck all the time by jumping in with the neighbor's pit bulls...

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adr
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 15:30
Quote: "I dont think region has to do anything with having compassion for your pets, tinkergirl."


Of course it does. It's cultural. I wouldn't dream of skinning a cat and eating it, but in some parts of the world, turning your nose up at such a dish would be more offensive (than the killing itself).

The UK does have a *huge* (and annoying) fascination with animals. Back in the mid-late 90s, (and still a bit today) animal-related television programmes were being comissioned left, right and centre. Animal Hospital, Animal Rescue, Vets in Practice, Pet Rescue ... I've seen so many commercials from various animal charities asking for just £3 a month it's just annoying now.

I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but I'm pretty sure they don't have quite so many "Give poor Rover a new home" adverts in more down-to-earth countries.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 15:51 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 15:56
Instead of blowing things up (or away), we prefer to look after pets...

Probably the only people who dont have any are either time travellers (not at home much) or the permanently baffled.

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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 16:03
Wow, that image looked identical to my old tinker neighbour's back garden. Damn dog used to bloody bark all the time. How it avoided being in a pie is a mystery to me.

One time I was mowing the lawn when my parents were visiting. Almost gave my mother a heart attack when the little b**tard suddenly smashed it's head through the cheapo gypo's rotten fence (in Britain you only have to legally look after X fences in your garden, depending on if it's only one single fence between you). Never actually talked to the scallies after I first moved in and went over to enquire if they too were having problems with the gas supply and the bloke appeared at the door (at 3pm) in dirty underwear, a ciggie hanging from the mouth, and a beer in the other. Right loud mouth w**ker that guy. Didn't give me any help either. Scum basically.

Anyway they left/ got evicted, and a young couple moved in and fixed everything up nicely. Took them about 3 months though as the place was a complete sty. Honestly, some people really need to be taken out of the gene pool. And when I say that, I mean obviously killed. By fire. Best to stop the spread of insects and disease.

And just spinkle a few rat poisoned soaked dog biscuits into their garden. Everything should be fine after that. Or "accidentally" steer your car towards it next time you see it on the road. Personally I'm looking for those four (at one time!) cats on my car the other day. Bloody cat lover street here... grrr.....
Perhaps a few imported decent sized snakes.... hmmmm...

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Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 16:06
Hah, just read your original post properly. You are worried about the dog? Oh, in that case get the neighbours in trouble and phone someone. Sod it, people who let an animal come to harm for no good reason (I have a good reason above - it's my car! - and food doesn't count) should be put away. Apart from horses. Totally allergic, and I agree with my Yugoslavian lodger that we care stupidely for them in the UK, and are much better, say, in a pie.

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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 16:09
Well, I personally would never have a dog. I understand the reponsibility required to give them a good quality of life, and its far too much effort for a lazy bastard like me. For me, the choice would be chain one up in the garden and never walk it, or not have one. So I choose the latter.

Chris Franklin
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 17:19
Quote: "Instead of blowing things up (or away), we prefer to look after pets... "

Lol well um I live in the uk but blowing stuff to bits is so much fun ever tryed making a flamethrower? lol

Jeku
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 18:21 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 18:24
Quote: "I'm pretty sure in the wild dogs don't spend all day crying, because they're pack animals and would be in a pack with company."


Well for one thing, house dogs are *not* wild. They were bred specifically for domestication. You will never see wild chihuahuas or german shephards. They are usually weaker than, say, a wild coyote or wolf.

Quote: "I wouldn't dream of skinning a cat and eating it, but in some parts of the world, turning your nose up at such a dish would be more offensive (than the killing itself)."


I don't really know about whether it would be offensive. What parts of the world eat cat anyway? I know they eat dog in S. Korea and some rural parts of China. And the dogs they eat are specifically bred for human consumption and, again, I don't have a problem with this. I mean, it's a double standard when we can eat rabbit.

And over in this country, we care every much as you do about pets. Hell, myself I have never *not* had a dog until I was married. Cats, too. But there's a difference between caring about animals and being extreme and anthropomorphizing them by saying they care about a messy yard. Come on--- dogs eat fecal matter and roll around in smelly, wet patches. They absolutely *don't* care about what a yard looks like :-P

EDIT:

Lassie, Benji, Littlest Hobo, Shaggy Dog, the one crappy Canadian show where the dog is a police partner, etc. etc. We have those TV shows too...

Fallout
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 21:16
Adrian mentioned a bunch of reality shows where dogs are rescued, not fiction where dogs are the stars.

I read an article in bizarre magazine once of a Korean dog restaurant. They had pictures of the dogs kept downstairs in a cellar. The chef came down with a club to take the dog when it was it's time to go into the pot. The dog doesn't try to get away like livestock to the slaughter. It hangs its head and winces, accepting its fate, gets billyclubbed, throat slit in front of the other dogs so they know what's waiting for them, and dragged up the stairs. Nice.

I saw a documentary once about the domestication of the dog aswell, but it was phrased from the angle "Did we domesticate the dog, or did they domesticate us?". Quite cool. Obviously they didn't domesticate us, but it was looking back at ancient civilisations and how a dogs natural loyalty and pack instincts make it a very useful animal to humans. Also looked at how it's opportunism and way of life meant that it could exploit us too. Interesting stuff.

Dogs are a world apart from pigs, cows etc. Not to say pigs aren't intelligent animals, but dogs possess more human like qualities than most other animals. It's a shame to eat them really.

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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 23:27
My local Chinease resteraunt had dogs in the freezer instead of beef because they thought the cow was a sacred animal. The police raided them, and found the alsations there. However, I had been eating there for many years, and usually had the beef curry. It was extremely nice, much better than beef (I was a 10 at the time, and didn't know the difference,), and now I will never taste it again, which is a bit of a shame. I would rather not have dogs killed anyway, just because they taste nice.

Jeku
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 23:30
Quote: "My local Chinease resteraunt had dogs in the freezer instead of beef because they thought the cow was a sacred animal. "


Hmmm interesting--- I never heard of the Chinese believe the cow was sacred. Are you sure it wasn't an Indian restaurant?

Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Feb 2006 23:55
Dubai is class. When I went to the pork counter (run by an australian) people look at you like a terrorist or something. And thats nothing compared to going round the back of the supermarket to enter the almost secret grotto of alcohol (you need a pass/licence that gets you a set amount a month that we got hold of from an area manager we knew). Might as well have been carrying a dead person on your back while snorting coke and smuggling nuclear weapons from the stares we got.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Feb 2006 18:58
Quote: " dont think region has to do anything with having compassion for your pets, tinkergirl"


some countries eat dog, so i'd say there is a bit of a difference.


Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 28th Feb 2006 19:16 Edited at: 28th Feb 2006 19:17
Quote: "Hmmm interesting--- I never heard of the Chinese believe the cow was sacred. Are you sure it wasn't an Indian restaurant?"


No it was Chinese. Maybe the Chinese think the cow is sacred too. Not sure why, but deffinately Chinese.

Jeku
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Posted: 28th Feb 2006 20:10
Quote: "No it was Chinese. Maybe the Chinese think the cow is sacred too. Not sure why, but deffinately Chinese."


No, the Chinese don't think cows are sacred Unless it's an obscure belief in an obscure area--- and they do have 1.5billion people so who knows.

Quote: "some countries eat dog, so i'd say there is a bit of a difference."


And again, those dogs are bred to be eaten. It's not like they have Rover as a pet then fry him up on the barbecue when he's prime :-P

JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Feb 2006 22:29
problem with eating dogs is that they eat other meat and their own crap...
causes bad germs and crap... yuck


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ionstream
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Posted: 28th Feb 2006 22:54
Well, there are worse things than death, and poor animals like that dog are often subject to things like that.

JoelJ
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Posted: 1st Mar 2006 06:40
well, i don't agree with mistreating animals, i don't agree with not being able to have outdoor pets (altho all my pets (including 2 dogs) are indoor pets)

anyway, if that dog's being mistreated, there should be something done about it, but in that picture, i don't SEE anything wrong, but there could be more than meets the eye.


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