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FPSC Classic Models and Media / US Soldier Model- Teaser

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 18:56 Edited at: 10th Apr 2006 23:17
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edit:

read post 10, page 2

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.

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Black Terror
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 19:25 Edited at: 8th Apr 2006 19:25
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A+! Nice job. I would say 3 dollars since it is only one person.

Black Terror
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 19:28
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hmm, what about 2 more people, keep in mind they are fully animated

it was kinda hard work and took a while, i dont think i'll settle for that price, i'll probably just use it in my game then

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.
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Gam3r
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 19:31
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i cant buy anything but good job anyways

-tyler
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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:05
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okay jon...its me again you know i`ve got some models on my mind which i need for my game. what about 5 - 10$ for a custom created and animated model ?
aaand i think you could easily charge 5$ for this model. it looks very good.

yeah...thats the ticket !
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FredP
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:10
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Top notch job on the model.

FLA
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Black Terror
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:10
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Yeah, 5 dollars for this one model.

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phil17
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:24
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wow that is really great....definitly sell it. About 5 dollars would be about right for that model.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:39
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Looks great , but the hands seem to large and to flate.

Price, I would pay $2-3 at the most. Yours compares to these models: http://www.murkymedia.com/actorpack01.html and they cost $20 for the whole pack. 8 base models, each with 2 textures.

Not that I'm going to buy, I've got more then enough soldiers. If you create every day unarmed a bit friendly looking people then it would be a different case, I would buy those right away. My games (and others also) could really need such models to fill up our games with. Just people you meet on a day to day basis, which could act as people on the street, npc's and so on.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:45
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omg...all the fpsc users are really spoiled:s

you can charge 25.00$ - 50.00$ on any 3d site easily. thats an exelent model, i wouldent sell it for that cheap.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 20:52
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Quote: "omg...all the fpsc users are really spoiled:s

you can charge 25.00$ - 50.00$ on any 3d site easily. thats an exelent model, i wouldent sell it for that cheap.
"


yes, thats what i am doing on turbosquid, for $50 i think

i dont think i'll make this for sale to FPSC users then, i really cant give it away for $5, sorry, it was too much work, and i think its better off selling on turbosquid to commercial standards.

that actor pack looks a bit 'plain' there is mostly one color for the characters and i dont think much detail is in the texture, unlike the stocks with FPSC, still nice though...

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.
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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 21:02
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50$ ??? you would have 50$ if ONE user would buy it....but..ok.

yeah...thats the ticket !
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KeithC
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 21:11
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I agree with Bullshock. That model, animated and all, would easily sell for that much (especially if it had multiple skins). I wouldn't drop your price (the lowest I would go is $20 for an FPSC-ready version) either. I know how much work goes into just creating something like that (not to mention actually animating it), and $5-$10 is selling yourself short. Good work by the way.

-Keith


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 21:16
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People want models free, which will always piss me off. They dont seem to know how long it takes to make them, texture then, animate them for use in a game.

Jon, I think you should just sell it on turbo squid and not bother giving these ungreatful people it for $5.

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K Jah
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 21:22
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Well said. $5 would be insulting yourself.

<('.')> <(@.@)> <(-.-)>
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 21:26
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i cant wait till this summer when im out of school

i get maya and 3dsmax back to help the community

its gonna be awesome...
but yeah we want it cheap *they i mean * because they dont understand how much work goes into modelling

i cant say alot goes into animation cause i animate for fun but ya

this summer ill be doing custom animations for free/low price

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 23:10
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It's all in comparisment to other FPSC stuff. Of course anyone can charge $50 for such a model, but how many FPSC users will buy?

When comparing to the other good FPSC stuff that is being sold, like the official model packs and murkymedia's model, the rate I gave is totally justified.

It's all about sales and knowing your potential customers.

I know how much times goes into modeling, since I've modeled for many years, but the issue isn't hwo much time I as a modeler did put into it, but what can my potential customer group afford.

I've been selling my Landscape pack for a low price, it's way to low compared to the time and effort gone into it, so I could easily have charged much more, as some suggest and do.

But I'm pretty sure that over half of the customers wouldn't have bought it.

You can sell one model for $50 and perhaps get 1 or 2 customers around here, if you even get a customer at all. You could sell the same models for $25 and get a few customers for sure. You can drop the price to $5 and get's lot's of customers around here, that's just the way it is. In the end the total amount of money would be about the same.

It's all up to the merchant.... only have a few elite customers or have many happy customers, I know what I choose.

Also take in consideration of re-occuring sales. If you ask $50 and people buy it, they most likely will not be able to purchase the next model you may bring out. If you go low priced they're much more prompt to buy the next model(s) also. By setting the price to high in this community, your just killing your own future revenue.

I'd rather have lot's of people buying a number of models for a low price, then have a few being able to afford only one model. Seeing my creations in many games is much more satisfying then seeing it in a few only.

Besides take the price of the software being used in consideration. Do you really think that people who 'only' spent $50 on an application that comes with lot's of models, which at a glance aren't worse then this one, will buy a single model for $50 or even $20? Nope, forget it, most of them want to buy stuff, but simply cannot afford it, they're all starters in game design.

It seems that even a lot of the 'seniors'in this community do not really understand it at all and do make absurd recommendations. Why in the world do you think that TGC is almost giving away their model packs, the price they ask is way to low for the amount of work that has gone into it. TGC knows their market and creates market conform prices, but it seems that this kind of reasoning is beyond a good number of 'seasoned game designers' around here.

That's a pitty, because you do not consider your fellow FPSC users at all.

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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 23:29
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i agree but i dont

because

i wont buy a 50$ model

cause im a wetback whitey trash lol
i mean ya if you set it for 50$ youll get 2 people in the fpsc communtity and thats it

and then if you post it on turbo squid you may get a couple more but then again you may not cause no offense

but i mean most of the models ive seen on turbosquid are about 3 times the quality of this...

just put a whole bunch of static and a couple enemies in a model pack and set it for 20$ lol
your getting money either way

Nunticaelitusphobia---im scuurrred of the internet
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KeithC
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 23:47
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Here's a link to TGC's models on Turbosquid: German Soldier
In my opinion, Jon's model looks quite a bit better. If you also notice, none of the character models come with animation either. In the end, it is up to the author as to what price he/she will set. I do agree that you have to look at your customer base; however, after Bullshock indicated that less than 30 people had bought his ECS Pro (only $5) I would wonder how large a customer base there is to justify lowering his proce that low. I'm willing to bet that the Torque community would be willing to invest heavily in his work, because they can afford it.

But, as the old saying goes, Money Talks. It's up to Jon, but I stand by my original statement.

-Keith


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Apr 2006 23:54
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2x50=100, but I doubt he will even sell 2 for that price.....
30x5=150, sounds good to me.

Also the model is ready and at TurboSquid already, so it would just being expanding customer base if he would make it FPSC Ready.

Bored of indoor? Add outdoor to your FPSC games!
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Dog
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 00:21
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Jonflect,

I have really enjoyed watching you turnout some great modeling. I'd like to talk to you about doing some modeling for me. Do you feel comfortable with a phone call or a video conference? Thank you for your fine work.


http://www.webzsphere.com
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KeithC
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 00:41
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How would it be expanding his customer base if the people that frequent Turbosquid find out they can get it at a fraction of the price. That doesn't make any sense at all. It's things like this that will eventually drive away the serious artists. After hearing people complain about Bond1's pack, I'm surprised he's still willing to work for a fraction of what he could be getting.

-Keith


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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 00:47
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Quote: "Jonflect,

I have really enjoyed watching you turnout some great modeling. I'd like to talk to you about doing some modeling for me. Do you feel comfortable with a phone call or a video conference? Thank you for your fine work."


please email me with your request and any specifications.

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.
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Wyatt Earp
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 03:16
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At least $30 for a model such as that. Good work!
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Dog
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 03:27
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Jonflect,

Thank you for replying to my post. I have sent you an email trying to describe my request. I feel I may have fallen a bit short with the description. I also provided you with my MSN IM information if you would like to use that form of communication. Again, Thank you for considering my request.


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TeMpLaR1
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 05:11
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5 $ for that? are people really becoming that delusional?

id agreed 30 to 50 $ is what that model is worth and for those that said $5, i think you deserve to be slapped


http://fps-files.net/
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Darkstorn
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 05:43
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Considering you didn't do all of it yourself(it's merely an edit of an existing model, most likely just a CS model turbosmoothed. Even the anim vids would hint this), it'd be fair not to charge any money for it.

You could at the very least give credit to the original authors.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 05:53
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thank you for your replies people, i might release it later on for that price and see who can afford it, if not i'll go about selling on turbosquid as i am now

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.
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Dog
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 06:33
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Jon,

I recieved your reply and have responded to your questions to the best of ability. I had a feeling that I did not communicate my request very well. Thank you for taking the time to work with me.


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Joh
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 08:26
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Jon,

You should also consider what comes with the package as well. ie, source files, formats, etc. Here's a site to check out, which so far most of the gamedev communities seem to consider reasonably priced not only for quality of work but also file format support for the source files.

http://cubixstudio.com/index.html

http://www.murkymedia.com
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op89x
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 08:44
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$25 and a license to use in commercial games. Sell a skin pack for another $5-8.

Avaric Entertainment
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 09:16
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when i released E.C.S. pro, i did it to help the community. NOT to make money. all the money i have made from E.C.S. has went back into the community anyway (thats all i use my paypal for).

saying that you have to take into consideration his customer base is stupid. think about it.

his customer base is anyone in need of a soldier model. i agree it wouldent sell around here for 50$. but plenty of game developers with a bigger budget would jump on that model.

as i stated above, a lot of FPSC users are spoiled. some people here have never bought models in theire life, and bought FPSC, so they think they should get the hundreds of models that came with fpsc.

thats not how it works. FPSC was an exelent deal, even if only sold as a model pack. do you guys have any idea how much a professional artist in the indusrty makes an hour for pretty much the same model?

anyway, those are my thoughts. didnt mean to offend anyone.

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op89x
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 09:36
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I'm all for helping the community out. I just don't have the means.

I will make my games cheap, though. And as fun as possible.

Avaric Entertainment
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Darkstorn
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 16:38
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Well in all fairness you shouldn't be charging any money for it considering it isn't all your work. The base model seems to be straight from Counter-Strike, with turbosmooth added and a hacked up texture. The helmet is from Counter-Strike: Source, and the skin is hacked up from a custom skin for Source(by a person named DarkElfa i assume).

Basically you are breaching several copyrights laws here. First for not giving credit. Second for porting copyrighted stuff from a retail game. And yes, also selling it. If you read the eula supplied with the game that includes these models, you'd find out this is just as illegal as stealing something from a store.

50 bucks for something where maybe 10% is original work is a... Disgrace so to speak.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 19:28
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Well if that's the case, you can't charge anything for it, you can't even give it away at all and then I'm wondering about your other work also shown in the FPSC Media section.... some of the models do seem very familair.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 19:31
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Quote: "Considering you didn't do all of it yourself(it's merely an edit of an existing model, most likely just a CS model turbosmoothed. Even the anim vids would hint this), it'd be fair not to charge any money for it.

You could at the very least give credit to the original authors."


What a joke. Can I come visit you and slap you across the face for saying Jon cant create his own work?

Papa Lazarou: Your my wife now!

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 9th Apr 2006 21:30
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why do you huys think he stole it from counter strike?

i dont think that model looks familiar.

Jonfletc , is this true?

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Darkstorn
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 01:11
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Well considering he took the model off from his Turbosquid site, it would seem i was correct.

Anyway, if you compare the textures he used on his soldier on this page to this:

http://www.fpsbanana.com/?section=plugin.imageview&image=http://www.fpsbanana.com/img/ss/srends/1373.jpg

You'll see it's hacked up from that. Sure they differ a bit. Mainly because Jon used a copy-paste method, which isn't exactly clean. You can see many duplicate details on the vest for example.

And i see he's trying to offer the M16 rifle as well, you can compare it to this:

http://csnation.net/skins/view_skin.php?id=4106

Some parts seem to be from other M16 models, but the most recognizable ones are still there.
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Darkstorn
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 02:25
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Messed up the link. Here's the correct one;

http://www.fpsbanana.com/?section=viewitem.skins.skins.main.2281

Sorry for a double post, won't let me edit.
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Acolyte Entertainment
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 06:00
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is this true?

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SpyDaniel
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Darkstorn, dont you have any thing better to do than look at other models to see if some one has stole them?

Come on, your just pathetic.

Papa Lazarou: Your my wife now!

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 14:22
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I don't want to be the one to cast stones; but I did look at the model that Jon displayed, and the one that Darkstorn gave the link to. There are some pretty good similarities on the top left and right of the soldier's LBE (Load Bearing Equipment). Especially the exact same camoflage pattern just below the radio (which is also the same) on the soldiers top-left side. I hope I'm wrong, and Jon comes on to clarify this.

-Keith


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Darkstorn
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 15:09
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Quote: " Darkstorn, dont you have any thing better to do than look at other models to see if some one has stole them?

Come on, your just pathetic.
"


1. No i don't, it's my job.
2. How am i pathetic? I'm just trying to get the original authors some credit here. If that's pathetic, well then YOU are pathetic. He's charging 50 bucks for something he hacked up together from other stuff. It IS the exact same thing as stealing stuff from a store and could possibly get him to jail, or at the very least very hefty fines. Copyright infrigiments are always against the law, especially when money is involved.
3. What does it really matter to you? I AM correct, and he also deleted the stuff on his TS page. That's a pretty obvious hint now isn't it?
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crow34
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 19:22 Edited at: 10th Apr 2006 19:26
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darkstorm how the friken hell can you compare them two models they are totally different


i would be happy my self to stand up in court and point out a thousand differences

the only thing that looks remotely the same is the skin

darkstorn if your convinced that jon has stolen a model report the abuse to tgc where tgc will investigate who will the contact the orginal author of the cs model

and if it is proven to be true jon will be banned

how ever if you are wrong and i can well imagine that you are you will be banned for causing trouble

if you have proof then tgc will investigate


just dont come on these forums laying down the law we dont want to know your opinion it makes you look kinda like a dick
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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 19:43
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When you look at his other work on his site, you can see that the textures (as far as style) all go together; which tells me that one artist did it (I believe it is Jon). Unlike the now infamous model pack of "Carlito" which look like a mismatch of all types of textures and modeling styles.

The only discrepency I see is on the texturing of the soldier; as I said, I hope Jon comes on to clarify this. There are many configurations (mostly done by the individual soldier) of the LBE/LBV (Load Bearing Equipment/Load Bearing Vest), so it's plausible that he has made his texture after looking at a similar one. Like I said, wait til he comes on to clarify the situation before passing judgement.

-Keith


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 20:19
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The only thing that all of you have posted about that looks like he has stole, is the tape around the butt of the rifle.

I dont believe that he has stole the models and textures. He could just have copied the design.

Papa Lazarou: Your my wife now!

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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 20:23
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I didn't say anything at all about the rifle, I'm talking about the equipment vest the soldier is wearing.


Ozark Games
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SpyDaniel
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Not you Keith, It was Darkstorn, he posted images of the rifle.

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Darkstorn
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:22
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I have nothing else to say except that i'm not saying the model on my link is the same, i'm saying he took parts of its texture on his soldier. Jon's model however looks almost exactly like the default Counter-Strike models... Including the face texture.

He deleted the model from TS after i posted this, so it would STRONGLY hint that i was in fact correct.

Either way, i'm not accusing him of being a thief, if i read his post correctly he said he used many bases for it. I'm just saying that he'll need to give proper credit and he certainly cannot charge money for it.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 10th Apr 2006 21:45
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ok, it is obvious there is alot of confusion in this topic, and i would like it to be lead to an end, and i am sorry i have not replied beforehand.

as i have stated, i made this a long time ago, at the time, i was a learning developer and not my best at character texturing and have had little experience in the field.

The base model may be centered around counterstrike, i am not absolutely sure, as a request came to me a long while back to do some texturing and editing for someones project over MSN Messenger (not a serious project, i believe it was for making an online series of animations)

the person sent me over a body structure which they had claimed to make themselves (in a .MAX format, so i assumed it was nothing ripped) and they wanted me to do some enhancements and changes to the model and the way it looks. (now it seems almost obvious on the suspicion how someone would send me their work and want me to improve it, when it was great already)

in a result, i edited parts of the model and created a texture for it, at the time i had no/little character texturing experience and took some reference from google images (searching obvious terms) so yes, i suppose you could say it is "hacked up". To get the best results, i searched for the more "referance positions" hence the reason why that DarkElfa image might have come up, for this i am very sorry for not realising it were copyrighted in any way.

Overall, i am extremely sorry for the hassle caused, i thought i was enhancing the structure of a basic body shape, little did i know that i might be editing a ripped model from a commercial game, having never played the first counterstrike.

In result from this news, i have removed the model from turbosquid, before it could be purchased, and have written an email to the user who sent me the model, i am still waiting for a reply.

Extra Note:
Although after finding out that the original structure of the model may be from counterstrike, what else you stated was made entirely by me, this being the helmet and the gun, i have still yet to see whether the model is from counterstrike, when i get a reply from the user who sent them to me.

Darkstorn, i would like to thank you for telling me this before it were too late and i could have sold it on turbosquid, i shall continue to press questions on the user who sent me the structure

Truly sorry, i hope all is resolved and we can put this behind us, i have done all i have in my power to make sure the distribution is not made

-Jon


RedCore Software + Design, Click on image to go to My website.
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