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Geek Culture / Well this sucks

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th May 2006 00:24
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I don't think this has been posted before, I haven't seen evidence that it has, but if it has, then mods are welcome to lock it.

This is something I saw (TCPA thingy), and think its stupid, the law part says in America, but no doubt it will have a ripple effect or whatever...And surely this limits our human rights?

Well anyway, read on from this website;

http://www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 14th May 2006 00:28 Edited at: 14th May 2006 00:29
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That's gonna wreck pc's for life No freeware nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

As long as it doesn't hit the uk it won't be to bad i hope *murders m$*

Theme park simulator wip boards

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 14th May 2006 00:29
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Quote: "mods are welcome to lock it."


Mods are always welcome to lock posts.

Uncle Sam
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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 14th May 2006 00:40
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Gah! NO! DEATH TO M$! There, an army of dangerous looking smilies should help...

Your goose is cooked.
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indi
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Posted: 14th May 2006 00:46
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vote with your wallet

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Raven
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Posted: 14th May 2006 01:05
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I'd suggest you read into what it means more.
Personally I'm against the bill Microsoft *was* trying to get passed, but as far as TCPA Hardware goes, I'm all for it.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 14th May 2006 01:17
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You are joking, Raven, right? I WANT to be able to use a cheap joypad/sound card/HDD. I don't want to buy it from a big company name, because it is rediculously expensive. Unless you are like M$ and have more money than sense, you would be against this. I am.

<OMG></OMG>
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indi
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Posted: 14th May 2006 02:17
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the ICE will get you Case, your ono-sendai cyberspace 7 wont save you. you better jack out from punching deck before those Russian mycotoxin's take effect.

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empty
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Posted: 14th May 2006 02:30 Edited at: 14th May 2006 02:30
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That's rather old. The TCPA is now called TCG (Trusted Computer Group). And thankfully most of their silly ideas have vanished meanwhile. As for the CBDTPA, it already died sometime around 2002.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th May 2006 03:59
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How can this relate to America? This is built in hardware, built into probably the CPU. So it will effect all computers if you upgrade to a new CPU. Ok so it hasn't happened yet, but it will happen eventually. The hack will also happen eventually to dodge the encription, so then we will be back to how we are now.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 14th May 2006 04:05
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*steals indi's copy of Neuromancer and runs off with it*

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
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indi
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Posted: 14th May 2006 04:19
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aww give it back! im sending wintermute!

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re faze
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Posted: 14th May 2006 06:09
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i really hope nothing like this gets implemented.

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indi
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Posted: 14th May 2006 06:17
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Think about it for one second.
who is the largest manufacturer of computer components?
china /taiwan maybe, do you really think they stick to copyright and laws such as this.?

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Represent
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Posted: 14th May 2006 06:47
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lmfao no

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Steve J
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Posted: 14th May 2006 09:25
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US government: 0 Indi: 10

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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th May 2006 09:56
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That bill is a joke and no way could i see that being enforced.

Quote: "2048 bit strong encryption"

I see, and what will that cost?

The point of this is to secure us why? It can't be saying that unless your pc is hacker proof, you'll get fined.

And the whole open-software thing, LMAO! I'd like to see them try and enforce that.

I dont see one possible reason why this should be approved, other than opening a door for big brother.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th May 2006 12:52
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Quote: "How can this relate to America?"

The law on this does.

But lets hope these ideas are completely rejected as a law and on computers, why don't microsoft just improve their OS instead so that we can have less/no hackers/viruses/whatever whilst keep its compatibility? :S I know the US government (Heck and load more governments) is pretty stupid, and Microsoft are greedy, and stupid too, I think this is an easy way out for Microsoft to clear its problems, but if it applies to only Windows computers, then Steve Jobs would be having a field day when these chips (and if they) are released

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 14th May 2006 18:05
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I will withhold my comments on the topic.



have a nice day

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th May 2006 19:28
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Looks like Canada is safe once more from wacky American bills.


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Raven
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:23
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Quote: "You are joking, Raven, right? I WANT to be able to use a cheap joypad/sound card/HDD. I don't want to buy it from a big company name, because it is rediculously expensive. Unless you are like M$ and have more money than sense, you would be against this. I am."


As I said above, I think no one really reads up on what technology is or does nowadays; you just see a site and assume they have all of the facts and are putting across an unbias argument.

TCPA is simply a form of hardware encryption system designed to allow developers to use is as a form of hardware protection for their digital media.

Current TCPA Hardware includes:
AthlonXP, Semperon, Athlon64, Pentium4, Pentium D, Itanium 2/3, Eden, NVIDIA LAN, NVIDIA PureVideo, ATI Avivo, and almost standard in modern Router & WiFi Hardware.

TCPA Hardware is already keeping millions of people safer from Hackers, Virus', etc. It has also been the basis of preventing Piracy on the GameCube, and is built-in to the X360 with the intent to hopefully prevent Hackers, Viri, and Piracy from hitting Microsoft's newest gaming hardware platform.

In short, TCPA itself is a good thing. For Business' who can keep their software secure and prevent loosing business, and for end-users who can relax knowing that piracy is not going to be pushing up their premiums.

Currently the Microsoft .NET Technology also employs TCPA Hardware Protection for Security, and Visual Studio 2005 (Retail Versions) have already implimented it for keeping your Computer and Source safer as a result.

No it's not some new-fangles infalible system. However given the fact that it takes a current top-end Windows PC around 10-days to strong-arm a 1024-bit AES Encryption; and the encryption id changes every 5minutes (default but programmable to whatever you choose), this leaves it as one of the safest and most reliable forms of protection currently on the market.

Don't veiw this technology by what certain companies are trying to enforce with it, but for what it is. Peace of mind, which doesn't come with some ridiculous price-tag

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:41
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Quote: "i think that it will be pretty much impossible to code an o/s that is virus or hacker proof, if it can be made by code, it can be hacked by code aswell, nothings impossible when it comes to that."


Apple did pretty well with Mac OS X, sure its not 100% as the recently made virus proved, but they fixed that up pretty quick.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:45 Edited at: 14th May 2006 20:46
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Quote: "why don't microsoft just improve their OS instead so that we can have less/no hackers/viruses/whatever whilst keep its compatibility?"


ROFL. Oh, is that *all* they have to do?

Why are you guys so quick to judge Microsoft? It says over 200 companies have joined in:

Quote: "The TCPA was founded 1999 by Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft. But in the meantime around 200 companies joined them. You will find Adobe, AMD, Fujitsu-Siemens, Gateway, Motorola, Samsung, Toshiba and many other well known companies. IBM already sells first desktops and notebooks with integrated TPM."


EDIT:

Quote: "Apple did pretty well with Mac OS X, sure its not 100% as the recently made virus proved, but they fixed that up pretty quick."


Um, everyone and their dog knows that Apple isn't hit with viruses because it's not a popular OS. It's something like 8% of the market. If things were flipped and Windows had a low market share, then the leader (Linux, OSX, whatever) would be hit with lots of viruses.


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David R
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:52 Edited at: 14th May 2006 20:53
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This system does sound clever alright.

Unfortunately though, this kind of stuff never works. There is always a way around. Fine, they have fancy encryption. So what?

Copy protected CD's had encryption, they had watermarks etc. none of which worked. I think that yes, this is good to prevent piracy and loss of business, but from the other point of view, this "OMG we have uncrackable organisation of hardware we are so l33t" from all those 'members' is going to be short-lived, because the people who crack these kind of things see them as a challenge, and making it this complex will be exactly the challenge they want.

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Steve J
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:52
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@Jeku:


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 14th May 2006 20:57
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Well, maybe if Microsoft wasn't stupid enough to make Windows run every piece of code it touched, and before starting a process, it ASKED you. Like my ultra cheap mobile. Hey, $10 of phone has better security than $100 of OS!

<OMG></OMG>
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th May 2006 21:10
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Quote: "ROFL. Oh, is that *all* they have to do?

Why are you guys so quick to judge Microsoft?"


I went straight to judging Microsoft, not because I saw their name on the list, because if they build a more stable OS with better security than they have, then we would be laughing at the stupidity of the info in the link above.

Quote: "Um, everyone and their dog knows that Apple isn't hit with viruses because it's not a popular OS. It's something like 8% of the market. If things were flipped and Windows had a low market share, then the leader (Linux, OSX, whatever) would be hit with lots of viruses."


Macs aren't a hit with viruses because of how its structured with its administation, there are loop holes for hackers, but they are very tight, which is why out of all the Mac hackers they only recently managed to break it.

And to be honest, I don't want to have, the 'what OS is better argument' because most of it will be opinion based and people will only wind each other up, as these arguments also are and do.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th May 2006 21:37
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@Steve J - Nice one! Saving that one for later


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th May 2006 21:59
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I'm still buying a mac book pro.


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Steve J
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Posted: 14th May 2006 22:33
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Megaton, you don't have to cry yourself to sleep! Install bootcamp, and all will be well...

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th May 2006 22:45
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Why do you think I am buying a mac? There's nothing to hate about it now. It's a PC and much more.


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 14th May 2006 22:48
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If this actually went ahead, it would KILL TGC. We wouldn't be able to run our own programs because they wouldn't be signed by M$.

<OMG></OMG>
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soapyfish
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Posted: 14th May 2006 22:50 Edited at: 14th May 2006 22:52
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Quote: "Apple did pretty well with Mac OS X, sure its not 100% as the recently made virus proved, but they fixed that up pretty quick"



And quoted from a pdf I downloaded a while ago...

Quote: "
The debate goes on about the first Mac OS X bit of Mal-ware. - Apparently there is a
Trojan Horse mal-ware called Oompa-Loompa. This is how it works, by some means you get a copy of a file called “ latestpics.tgz” which when unarchived, appears to be a JPEG image. It is in fact an executable file. If you run it, it will creates a newer copy of itself which can affect other real applications making them useless. The mal-ware propagates itself through iChat.

Of course, there isn’t much information about what would cause a person to try to execute what they thought was a JPEG image. I guess double-clicking on the image would essentially run it, but what I wonder, is why a person would find a archived file on their computer, have no idea where it comes from, unarchive it, then double-click on the resulting file, then provide a password to allow it to install a program.

Also, the above tgz file is stored in your /tmp directory. What, you didn’t know you had a /tmp directory? Most gui users will never see this directory. Just about the only way to get to it is by using the Terminal application. Am I just ignorant about how this works or is this just a non-problem virus?

Okay, so the virus is a “Concept” virus, that is one that proves that a virus can be created for Mac OS X. It doesn’t necessarily have to actually do anything to be a concept virus, it just has to show it does something. But then, under that definition, we could make a hardware virus right here.

1: go to hardware store
2: buy hammer
3: bring hammer to computer
4: smash hammer into your display screen
"


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Three Score
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Posted: 14th May 2006 23:50
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Quote: "4: smash hammer into your display screen "

why waste a perfectly good monitor i think it should stop at step 3



I just don't see why people don't have more "asks"
tcpa is actually a good idea but should not be mandated it should be like "this program is not TCPA compliant which means this program may be dangerous, would you still like to execute it" and have an option in the settings of to ask because I'm sure that it would get annoying after awhile

also I don't see why a program should need access to anything more than their own program files and directories and a my documents place or something; like they should have it to when they try to access something else have a prompt

I was Offset of Reality
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Bahamut
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Posted: 15th May 2006 01:09
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Quote: "If this actually went ahead, it would KILL TGC. We wouldn't be able to run our own programs because they wouldn't be signed by M$."


Yeah, that's the first thing that went through my head when I read it. It sounds bad, and if the article is right, then we're all buggered.

However, the article is clearly biased, so it is very persuasive and suggestive. I would like to see an unbiased outlook on the matter before I get too worried. It was also last updated on the 5th of October last year. Why havn't we heard anything about it since? Surely it would be on the news even in England.

Assuming it goes ahead, how will it be implimented? Will everyone have to send off their PCs to get updated, or will it only be available in new PCs? The whole notion is riddled with problems, so for the moment, I'm not too worried.

IceBound -No, really-We're quite good.
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re faze
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Posted: 15th May 2006 01:18
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there should be something implemented to restrict a program's scope to the working directory.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th May 2006 01:35
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Quote: "Megaton, you don't have to cry yourself to sleep! Install bootcamp, and all will be well..."


So why would he being crying himself to sleep, he's not that German kid on that PC in that video, I've never heard of anyone stressing over a Mac, but plenty of cases with a PC, heck I punch the monitor sometimes, but with a Mac nothing has ever gone wrong, which is why I favour Macs, but use PC's because of its compatibility, but thanks to bootcamp, I'm thinking of reconsidering of custom building myself a PC

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soapyfish
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Posted: 15th May 2006 01:46
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Quote: "with a Mac nothing has ever gone wrong"


(waits for someone to post a link to that video)

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th May 2006 01:53
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Quote: "(waits for someone to post a link to that video)"


Alright, known

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Raven
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Posted: 15th May 2006 02:02
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Nice to see the topic TOTALLY change subject to bash Macs.
Always found it amusing that so many nerds can bash a system most have never even used.

That said for those of us who remember the days of MacOS6... I think that video needs to be linked.
I'd do it but my PowerBook always goes into working mode then turns off when I type it in. (hehehe)

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Saikoro
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Posted: 15th May 2006 02:13
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1. You don't know if most of them have never used a mac (they're standard in schools for the last 12 years I've gone).

2. I'm not going to trust a site that is obviously completely one-sided on a topic, and I don't see why others would do the same. It's pure propaganda for that side, and I don't buy it. It may be true, but for sure, overexaggerated. It's like using Fox News as your #1 news source.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th May 2006 02:19
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Quote: "2. I'm not going to trust a site that is obviously completely one-sided on a topic, and I don't see why others would do the same. It's pure propaganda for that side, and I don't buy it. It may be true, but for sure, overexaggerated. It's like using Fox News as your #1 news source."


Or many newspapers for that matter , shall we bring this back on topic or to a close, there are too many Mac bashing, PC bashing threads out there, no one is ever going to win.

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indi
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Posted: 15th May 2006 02:30
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steve j posts the comic but has to get a lesson in gotos in another thread.

need I say more? pfft LMAO

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Jeku
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Wait a sec--- that's ironic. Aren't Mac users supposed to be the drag-n-drop BASIC lovers, and PC users supposed to be the l337 assembly-language coders? Or--- what? My brain is fried.

All I say to the Mac vs. PC argument is--- show me the games! Show me the games! Haven't seen any good Mac-only games since Bungie's Marathon.

And yes, I *have* used a Mac extensively in art school. And yes, the cute little bomb icon that appears just before it crashes makes me feel warm and tingly inside


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Oddmind
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Posted: 15th May 2006 05:46
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Quote: "I dont see one possible reason why this should be approved, other than opening a door for big brother."


Thats EXACTLY what i thought when i read that. This bill or any bill like it wont get passed until the Freemasons take over with the NWO.



just kidding i want meh freeware.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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jawchild
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Posted: 15th May 2006 06:14
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I wouldn't worry about this kind of stuff. Many people enjoy the freedom they get with their computers. Opensource/Linux is doing very well because of this. M$ can suck our asses. WE'll all end up using Macs anyway (or the next best thing)in a few years.
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indi
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Quote: "Aren't Mac users supposed to be the drag-n-drop BASIC lovers"

tell that to the unix community, the health and medical industry and the media arts including tv and cable tv. as well as weta from nz who put lotr together with a mac.

Quote: "And yes, the cute little bomb icon that appears just before it crashe"


Quote: "And yes, I *have* used a Mac extensively in art school"

thats like ten years old bro. get with the times. ignorance is bliss i guess.
and then you compare with a machine thats obviously been abused by a lot of "know it alls" theres no point in trying to educate you, its obvious what your opinion is, albeit a decade behind.

If I had to pay someone in my office to fix 5 pcs which took an hour each on average per week for spyware crapware and general virii at $80 per hour is $20000.

Now im not saying I would have to pay someone but think about it for a second, all those business' that do.

ahh id be cranky too if I just had a pc.

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Steve J
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Posted: 15th May 2006 07:03
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@indi: It was a lighthearted joke, (I know you are defensive and all, but seriously..) no need to insult now is there? I want the new 4 core intel mac. I have a g4 (I know, but the g5 series was expensive, or at least the one I wanted) and it is pretty good. Much better than the pc I had when I got it at least. And I have a WORKING Mac plus, but it isnt working that well. Was in storage (old musty storage unit) for a long time, and is ready to fail soon.

And at your comment on my dbp programming crapness: PHP doesnt have goto's, and guess what I have been programming in primarily for more than a few years? (But then again, PHP is easier for me to understand)

Evil Mods keep erasing my below 600x120 sig...
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indi
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 15th May 2006 10:47
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yeah dont mind me i get passionate and it transfers as agro.
Im switching to a quad 3000 after this rentsmart allows me to upgrade.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself &#63743;
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Jeku
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Posted: 15th May 2006 10:53 Edited at: 15th May 2006 10:56
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Quote: "If I had to pay someone in my office to fix 5 pcs which took an hour each on average per week for spyware crapware and general virii at $80 per hour is $20000."


Well then you're doing something wrong. I haven't had a bit of spyware or virii on my PC since '99 when I got hit with with something from school.

Quote: "tell that to the unix community, the health and medical industry and the media arts including tv and cable tv. as well as weta from nz who put lotr together with a mac."


I don't see your point--- I wasn't referring to the media arts industry. I'm fully aware that the majority of them *may* use Macs (although I think it's a myth--- where I work we have hundreds of artists who have switched from Mac to PC in the last two years).

I was referring to programmers, as I don't know of very many coding solutions available for Mac.

And my bomb icon comment was a joke. The last time I used a Mac in a production environment was '99, not really a decade ago, and they were G4s. They did have the cute little bomb icon, because believe me it popped up all the time


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
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