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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / FairPlay Campaign - video games are a rip off

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Oct 2002 17:08
This site REALLY has a point! I'd buy far more games if they cost less and would be willing to try out titles I will otherwise ignore. Fascinating reading - well worth taking part.



See the site here http://www.fairplay-campaign.co.uk/ for info.

Cheers,

Rich
"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
indi
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Posted: 9th Oct 2002 17:39
that was one interesting read rich.

Its a shame its mainly United kingdom based.

Id prefer to see continental advice from lots of sides and not really have to sort out any UK tax problems in the arguments.

I was basing DT much lower than there average prices.
Im going to mark it up

no website at moment
EgoAnt
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Posted: 9th Oct 2002 18:40
Their math is a little off, however. They don't take into account a lot of the little costs that add up. For example, when selling a game at retail you don't just make one copy for every person who buys the game. It is almost inevitable that you will overstock to meet demand. Many companies start with a limited run and then press more when that stock is dwindling, or attempt to move stock from one location to another if it doesn't sell well in one area. Even the secondary shipping costs can run up the per unit price.

Then there is the money lost due to theft, and I'm not talking about people who copy the games, that factors under lost sales. Actual physical theft from stores makes it so that the retailer wants to jack up the price to cover either insurance or anti-theft measures.

Yet another thing not accounted for in their calculation is growth costs. Lets face it, once the ball starts rolling it is the desire of most game companies to keep on growing, and any growth requires substantial investment. Where's the easiest place to get that money? From the consumer, if possible. There's no interest charged on profit, heh.

Yet another thing not factored in is the cost of localizing games. They say that 1 in 34 is not an impossible task when trying to sell to PS2 owners, but not all of that installed base speaks the same language. So tack on a little more money for that...

I'm not saying that they are wrong, I'm just saying that there are a lot of things they haven't accounted for. In all honesty, the best way to change the price of games as I see it is not to attempt a boycott. First of all the only people who will really hear about the boycott are gamers who are alread yfairly hard core, and they account for a relatively small percentage of the people who buy games. The best way, as I see it, to influence the giants would be to start a company that publishes quality games at low prices. If you start posting a profit that exceeds what the big boys turn out then they will change their policies to match you, in time. And I don't even mean you have to be making billions of dollars, just selling far more units than they expect while pulling a decent profit.
DrakeX
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Posted: 9th Oct 2002 23:32
£45 for a new game?? i'f i'm not mistaken that works out to about $80 or $90 US! GOD you people should complain!

here the games are $50 new (some bigger/multi-disc are $60) and as games get older the price drops to about $30 or less ;D

maybe it costs more for them to translate the game into 3 languages so it costs more? i dunno.

i'm looking at yooooou!
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 00:06
Ya, 45 pounds is about 100 Canadian, we pay about $45 for games, some console games go to $80, I'm talking the major releases though. After awhile they end p reduced, and if they sell really well, they are classified as big sellers, and are reduced drastically.
You guys are getting RIPPED OFF considering I pay half what you do for most games!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
Matto
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 02:16
Well when you look at the old Nintendo 64 prices for a game, it's no wonder the playstaion won the war.. I mean £65.00 for a game is ridiculous, I would never buy another Nintendo system because of that, I did pay for a few at the time although begrudgingly.., I am not surpised they are on the way out, as I believe they are after the cube.. I never even look at the Cube figures for games or even the games for that matter, as for PC games I am happy to pay £30.00 for a good game, if that was lowered to £25.00 I would buy more than the 2 or 3 a month I do (providing good titles are around), I do buy older titles on the pocket money shelf to test out for £5.00 or £10.00 a time if no good games are around, as for the consols, well the PS2's £40.00 for a new top title is a little high, and the x-box (which I would buy if they bought the prices of games down for, not just the consol..) are definatly out of reach, well more out of reach because of the time it takes to build a good library of games rather than being able to afford them, I would only buy 1 a month in reality at that price, if I owned a system of course, which I would if £35.00 max price was implied.

Saying this I understand it is neccessary to cover costs, but we all know the developers only get a portion of the fee we pay for the released title, maybe an answer is for big developers or publishers to gather up and sell games from a co-operatively owned store, now that should bring prices down and also set the cat amongst the pigeons !!

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 02:42
I get Cube games for £35 - same as good PC games.

what is a signature?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 09:49
Bloody too right... they wonder why there is piracy - its cause gamers can't bloody afford to buy even half of the games that are hyped to the max!
The most annoying thing is alot of titles recently have been disappointing copies or updates of old games - i mean if they're gonna charge the UK people extra, they should give them an extra game or extra portion that ya know isn't in the US versions.
Erm... i'm not back that week though - so i won't buy any game the week after
and probably not for a while after that even as... well i'm broke

but i'm not buying games in spirit

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
Ahem I mean, I'll think about it
Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 11:48
"£45 for a new game?? i'f i'm not mistaken that works out to about $80 or $90 US!"

Is actually about 70.4197 USD. Still a rip-off though. Esp when you consider we speak the same language. And then they take yonks to convert console games and blame it on PAL/NTSC conversion. Like it really takes 6 months. Ok. And as if it really matters anymore with most TVs these days being NTSC compat.

Basically anything computery or to do with cars then we get totally screwed. Great...

At least we can drive up the motorway though and knock Lee on the head if things go wrong

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
deadlyduck
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 15:44
Back when computer gaming was new, and most of the games were written by small companys or solo bedroom programmers, and the computers were ZX Spectrum or C64 games cost less than £5

There were loads of them, some were realy good, I still play the likes of Avalon on Speccy emulators now, although It's not the same without the rubber keys

This was the time when the programmers bought porches from the profits from a tape sold at less than £5 a go, because of the quantity sold.

I used to buy 2 or 3 games a week, now you have to study if the games any good, waiting on reviews, asking friends what they have herd about it, checking the web, etc. before you part with your hard earnd cash...

Hmm 1 sec arn't blank tapes more expensive than blank CD's..

Mind if we are going into that why are DVD's more expensive than VHS?
Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 16:07
Porches? What, you mean for like the front of their houses? Heh, sorry, just tickled me that one...

Good point though. Isn't it like about 20p to totally create each CD (with proper label etc etc). Takes the mick a bit.

But yeah. Those were the days. Just was to lazy arse with a total lack of decent tools in those days. Lazy arse meaning totally not bothering with Assembler even though you had the tape with it on (grief). Could have been a millionaire.... I mean how hard is Manic Miner to write these days? Hell, even in Assembler it wouldn't have been the hardest thing ever, with crap easy 2D graphics (pretty much 1 colour on Speecy don't forget) and simple gameplay, with no FMV or decent screens... cry.... Darn.....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
EgoAnt
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 20:49
Nintendo sold N64 games at such a ridiculous price simply because they made the mistake of sticking with cartidges when they should have moved to a media that is less expensive to reproduce. A cart costs a ridiculous amount to produce compared to a cd. Of course, it does have one distinct advantage, it is MUCH harder to pirate...
AlecM
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 20:55
I guess that just another reason why it sucks to be a brit

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
lagmaster
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Posted: 10th Oct 2002 21:51
shops still sell nintendo 64 games at £30 shocking really when n64 isnt "top of the range" anymore.

for me when buying a game, it costs me HALF my wages, yes that right HALF.

i'm sticking to my guns on pc. consoles will make me broke if i keep buying games at £45 a shot plus the console at £150~

i buy games every 2months now. i cant afford to buy the latest game straight away or i will save some money for it.

i fully agree with this website.

i wont buy a game from now till....... january

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net/ r.nash@ntlworld.com
specs: 1.2ghz athlon, 384mb ram, geforce 2 mx 400 (32mb),win2k
EgoAnt
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Posted: 11th Oct 2002 00:37
I won't buy any games between Oct.31 and well, um, let me just check some release dates...

Penny Arcade comic that feels basically the same as I do...
Milamber
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Posted: 11th Oct 2002 21:01
Over here in Aus, new games come out at $80-$90, which works out to be $40-$45 US. The really hyped up overpriced ones, or the good ones that need lots of CDs and took years to develop, sometimes come out at $100 ($50 US), but except for some N64 games ($110 max), I've never seen anything above that. Xbox games start at $80-$100 as well, and sometimes you can get them even cheaper. The xbox itself you can get in a pack with 2 racing games and a book right now for only $449. Also, the TVs over here are PAL, and always in the past Aus has been in the European region for distribution, versions, etc. Also, some games end up as "Classics" if they're any good (after a couple of years), and get priced at sometimes as low as $30 Aus. The games that go "Platinum" generally end up priced at around $60.

System Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+ XP, GA-7VRX motherboard, 128MB DDR RAM, GeForce2 MX400 64MB VRAM
indi
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Posted: 12th Oct 2002 10:22
diablo 2 xp battle chest in Aus when it forst came out was $130.00

D1
D2
D2xp
Manuals
Cheat Guide

no website at moment
Milamber
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Posted: 12th Oct 2002 12:09
That's a pack, not a single game. They do go a bit higher, as you would expect.

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Overdroid
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Posted: 12th Oct 2002 15:14
Some interesting insight about the old school days of computer games can be found at the following sites:

http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/
http://www.erasmatazz.com

The second site is Chris Crawford's home page. The guy is a genius, and full of spit-fire and vinegar when it comes to the devolution of computer games. He used to work for atari back in the day (2600 anyone?). I highly recommend reading the articles at his site, and I very highly recommend buying and reading his book (http://www.erasmatazz.com/book.html).

I was just recently was laid off from a job as a technical writer at a major game studio, and I have to say that I'm a little scared about the future of the industry. Most of the creative decisions about the games produced at the company I worked for were made by the marketing department. This is typical. Now I'm not saying that marketing people are inherently evil (although I wouldn't say that lawyers are inherently evil either), but they should be making creative decisions about how to SELL a product, not MAKE a product.

Anyway, I hope that one day computer games will be recognized as more than just purile entertainment (although it's hard to shake off a stigma once the public has attached it. Who takes comic books seriously other than comic collectors?).

Also, check out the Erasmatazz site. Crawford has plenty to say about the potential of interactive entertainment.

"Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand."
- Unknown.
MiRRoRMaN
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Posted: 12th Oct 2002 16:40
I totally agree with this site. Game publishers shouldn't complain about piracy untill they make these prices cheaper. I think the price of an avarage videotape would be fine for a game.

Also I think its ridiculous that they have to have about 800 people working on one game. It makes you think about two points:

1. Gamers are too demanding.

2. Publishers are making games too expensive.

And yes, that is a paradox, I think everyone who develops games has to make this statement themselves. I for one publish games at cheap rates because I develop them alone.

QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2002 06:44
I vomit with rage at the people who made that website. They haven't done their homework. You know why game companies release games at such high prices? eh?

Piriting.

Companies lose millions every year to internet pirates. Remember that copy of half life you burned for your friend? You just lost a man's job. IF they sold a game for as much as it costs to manufacture, the employee's wouldn't get paid, the company could never buy new or replace equipment, and people would still pirate the games. The game companies have to take into account how many people own pirated software, and how easily it is to distribute it. According to a recent study in Readers Digest, computer gaming companies and other computer manufactures have "lost nearly half their customers to internet pirates since 1998."

It's truly a shame that website exists. Pirating is destroying the gaming indsutry, and here these people are complaining about it. You want lower game prices? Buy, don't steal.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Oct 2002 08:40
800 people on a single title?
I've never heard of something so ridiculous!
Development teams generally (even in the largest of companies) consist of between 15-30 people ... here they are actually in 3 teams of 25 and my team of 10.

it is also quite absurd that almost all final decisions for games development arn't done by the creative minds within the company but the people who know f**k all, and are just here to make money!

personally i think development companies should go back to how they used to be... you had the dev team - then you have one perhaps 2 pr people (which double as support and webmasters)
the development team makes the game and then gives it to the publisher!

there should be no... "oh this looks too scare for children" or "i want more of a quake approach on this!" from some guy in a suit that i swear has never played a game in his life LET ALONE bloody developed for one!

you don't know how many great ideas are crushed like this because the cash counters don't want to make a risky title!

i know ALOT of people remember Oni - it was truely a remarkable game, but very short lived on the shelfs and not greatly available (major cities within the US and UK ONLY)
it didn't sell very well because no one really saw it for the PC and the PS2 conversion was a joke!
However it was probably the most unique titles seen yet, and it deserves a longer and slightly more developed version - as it was a background developed game, to a tight schedual that really was a hobby development than anything truely official.

Perhaps once the development is back in the hands of the development teams rather than the people who onylcare for money, then you'll see more diversity and probably better titles comming as they're not just hashed out garenteed hits! - it would allow companies to think more about thier development and work on making something fun than to a formula!

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
burrbittyburr
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Posted: 13th Oct 2002 13:45
I remember when Atari games would sell for $40. The sad part was I bought 'em. It's a real shame when the box looks better than the game.
I think it's great that Pong is dead and the new technologies are to thank. Good progs. and artist cost money, and if the consumer wants to see "The Next Best Thing" then it's gonna cost 'em. And why not, after all people don't mind wastin' the good 'ol dirty dollar on Eminem. This dude chews shrooms, gets lit, beats up his old lady - wraps it up in a package, then sells it for millions.
Point being, Em aint a bad guy, but he doesn't work nearly as hard as a game developer, and he can charge all he wants.
Ask yourself how many times you pulled your hair out just to make the least bit of progress. Structing a game is hard work, but I'm dedicated to it. I'm sure true musicians are dedicated to their art as well, but I would download an album (because I don't care about music that much) and a musician can download my game. On the other hand, I would not D/L a game because I will not cut my own throat.
When Grand Theft Auto came out I knew it was gonna suck, but I knew one day GTA3 would arrive, and when it did I loved every poly and every pixel. I felt like my money was well spent and will also go on to enhance Vice City.
On a last note were lucky that progs. like DBPro hit the self and don't require a distribution fee. I've seen some game engine fees as high as $100,000 which I find to be out right retarted. Some engines even limit what content your allowed.
DBPro and a few other progs. out there are cheap and somewhat effective. I predict they will change the way we build, play, buy, and sell games in the future. Bottom line is... if our cost is cheap and our limits unrestricted,
then we can give our customers a worth while product for the same price as an album or concert ticket, and still make enough loot to keep our computational shed filled with the right tool for the next big project.

Specs[1 GiG Athlon,Geforce Ti4, 128mb]
Milamber
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Posted: 13th Oct 2002 18:03
Pirating reduces the number of copies of a game sold, true, but most of the cost involved with making a game is employing the programmers, artists, testers, advertising people, etc. as opposed to publishing the finished product. They can make all the contents of the game box for a couple of dollars, but they have to sell it to people for ten times that to cover the effort that went into designing it. Then you have to add on a bit to give them a profit, then the shipping companies cost money, so add on a bit more, then retailers add even more to the price when they put it on the shelf. This last one is probably the biggest price jump. Has anyone else seen a game on special $20 Aus off? The retailer is still making a profit, so think about what they're making when they sell it at the normal price. The reason games are so expensive is because of the retailers, not because of the programming companies. Also, all the loss in sales due to pirating is at the retail end. The programming companies have already got their share from that copy by then, so only the retailers are losing out if a copy isn't sold. Just like if a copy is stolen. And the only reason piracy is such a widespread thing is because games are so expensive. Games are generally aimed at children and teenagers, yet children don't have jobs, and most teenagers don't either, so it's far easier to get a CD-R and a good burning utility than it is to scrounge up the money to buy the original.

System Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+ XP, GA-7VRX motherboard, 128MB DDR RAM, GeForce2 MX400 64MB VRAM
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Oct 2002 07:25
Yeah well it doesn't help with programs suchas Kazaa being abused by adults...
Most kids and teens don't understand howto program to create cracks and software unlocks, that is oftenly done by highly skilled morons!
Most of the time in the uk the mark down price of £5-£10 oftenly is only on older games to get rid of stock!
with EB and Game who uptil 4month ago were competeing in price wars (even though they were the same company), they're profits aren't actually as large as you'd think.
If they mark a game down £10... that their profit gone!

The profit they make oftenly is surged back into purchasing and contract for reatiling the latest titles - add this to the employees wages ... they're really arn't making a whole hellofa lot!

The profit oftenly software companies are paid per title per year ... like a grant system - if they run out of money then ONLY if the publisher thinks it is worth while they will put more money in. Usually within this budget the company has to purchase new software for their development staff, new computers, licences ... which actually comes out that the developers arn't making much money - althought i admit ALOT of the higher up guys are making stupid money like footballers, i mean they're talented but John Romero on £1.5mil a year + bonuses and his first comeback game was truely nothing compaired to almost every other title at the time!

Alot of thought and preperation does actually go into the box art believe it or not alot of them are done by to graphical engineers designing them to catch the eye and make a style! (which is pretty hard considering more than 150 titles are released per year)

alot of the money is ending up in the pockets of companies like EA and Activision ... yes perhaps alot does go on advertisement - however still when all is said and done the only people who make a true profit are them!
They end up with the money to spare, whereas almost everywhere else the money is spent before it is even allocated!!

And this is the case that you'll find until developers came under the rule and exclusiveness of a publishing house, and they published - marketed and sold to retailers the games we were all paying considerably less!

Take microsoft for example (probably the BEST example) ... now alot of thier software is pirated, why?
because they are the greediest company on the planet!
They are developers, publishers in one package... this in theory should cut down the cost to us no?
WinXP - £110 however if you are a student £50, now this might just be me ... but alot of people i know send off for the student pack because if you have kids then basically your entitled to use it!
So, really they're not making much more money becuase those people who don't qualify will almost undoubtably pirate or just go without ... now imho this is kinda blind sighted of Microsoft as they're killing thier own customer base - however whilst they hold a monopoly over Home Operating systems and companies require Windows to run then they can charge whatever they like and they'll get it!

But your can see they're making 100% more from those who don't have school going kids!?
Add to this that technically anyone who has this operating system on more than ONE pc must buy another copy - otherwise they are ILLEGALLY using the software... and Microsoft have even prosocuted people on these grounds!

I really think the industry has too look up and think hey if people are paying so much money... how come we're not seeing any of it?

Here is a simple example, Tiberium Sun was developed for £2.8Million (this includes the guest appearance of James Earl Jones) - Now the game was marketed for £35 in the UK ... it required to sell 80k copies to break even (worldwide). It sold over 150,000 copies in the UK alone!
Now we tag this up, you'll add £5/copy (rough figure but about right for the machines operation that copies the game) ... say another £2/copy for import to the UK
another £15/copy profit from the Retailers (i'm being generous) - so £22/copy * 150,000 - £35 * 150,000 = £1.95mil unaccounted for!

if it isn't going to the retailers (because it is was £10 less from www.shop.ea.com) - then surely there is only one possible place that it is going no?
and those are just the UK figures, for a single title!

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
Milamber
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Posted: 14th Oct 2002 10:04
So then it's the publishers making all the profit, not the developers, though I'm not going to argue with you about Microsoft products - except maybe the xbox, but that's different.

System Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+ XP, GA-7VRX motherboard, 128MB DDR RAM, GeForce2 MX400 64MB VRAM
MiRRoRMaN
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Posted: 15th Oct 2002 03:29
Quote: "
Most kids and teens don't understand howto program to create cracks and software unlocks, that is oftenly done by highly skilled morons!
"


Raven NOFI but I disagree. I used to know a lot of crackers and was one on the Commodore 64 myself until I realised programmers had to make a living out of programming. (I was 13 at the time, so you can't blame me for figuring that out later on.)

I still know some cracking groups like DBC, they are one of the biggest nightmares to software companys but a lot of people, including myself, they help out when you ask them too. They will tell you whats wrong with your copy protection and even develop along with security programs. Some crackers I agree are morons, some people copying also.

Me personally, I think its an honor when my games/applications get cracked because it means its a good game. People who like the game/genre etc. will buy it anyway when they have the money.

Its all pretty paradoxical I agree, but there is more sides to the whole piracy story. Copy protection firms need to give in a little more to the buyers, also by making prices lower, and the stupid cracking groups need to learn.

My solution is simple: Everybody, consumers, crackers and copy protection firms (who are the biggest crooks if you ask me) need to meet eachother halfway.

Then, and only then, will we be able to come to a solution.

Hope this somehow makes sence and that no one will flame me to death on this.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Oct 2002 03:52
Yeah but meeting halfway will never happen, specially not in a capitalist socity!
Everything is about money... they're out to gouge us and although the cracker believe thier helping the way that they are doing this they're just injuring the companies.

I personally believe that if the hacker and crackers worked towards helping everyone rather than just making an achievement meaning piracy is possibly then perhaps this vicious circle of escalating prices could stop!
Further more, i think that rather than a simple "lets stop purchasing games for a week" we extend this to all aspects of the computer industry for the month!

Mainly because quite frankly £35 for a computer game maybe a little steep, but at the end of the day - isn't unreasonable for most titles, and those that it is unreasonable for oftenly drop in price just to shift stock!

Whereas developers like Microsoft, Discreet, Alias|Wavefront, Macromedia, Adobe, etc... although yeah these are great products i don't think for the home user we should pay such ridiculous prices!?
I mean there should be prices for home users with set 5 keys as most homes oftenly have a home network with 5pc's, this would also help small businesses that can't afford such stupid prices on such small budgets!

Then the corporations should have special site versions rather than multiple licence purchaseable... this would allow them to gouge the companies that can afford it and not the everyday user who is bullied into getting these programs as there is no choice if they wish to enter the industry or such or even just have an OS to run thier PC!

There should be some agreement about the distribution of products for home and busniess users and what actually qualifies as such - because the current setup is very unfair. They'll find they'll actually have more customers and gain more profit if it is more widely available and cheaper! And those who can already afford such things will be able to purchase more of them...
But then publisher tend not to think too hard about long term figures but short term return funds.

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
MiRRoRMaN
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Posted: 15th Oct 2002 19:04
To put it shortly, what I mean by meeting halfway, is that lower prices should work.

If you only have to pay 20 Euro for a game, there's no need for piracy.

And 20 Euro is a very fair price.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 08:46
There is no need for piracy now... it will still continue unless the product was free - but perhaps if both side came to a more understandable agreement rather than purely ripping everyone off then perhaps it would be less'd especially as there would be more people like me who will see piracy for what it is rather than a cheap solution!

Holy jumping mother of god NOOOO!!!...
Milamber
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 16th Oct 2002 09:35
If games were sold under the same license as Linux, then it would be rather interesting, because people would mostly go out and buy the thing just for the box and manual. Right now, a lot of people pirate games because they can't afford to buy all the new games coming out. Price them cheaper, and some of the piracy disappears. Besides, online multiplay is popular, and you generally need an original to do that, or the person with the original of your copy cannot be on at the same time as you.

System Specs: AMD Athlon 1700+ XP, GA-7VRX motherboard, 128MB DDR RAM, GeForce2 MX400 64MB VRAM
AlecM
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Concord, MA
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 00:16
"... about 800 people working... " The most Iv ever heard of in the actual development team is around 30.

Goto http://www.shellshockede.com
MiRRoRMaN
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 19th Oct 2002 23:03
Goto Japan, you'll see even more people working on games like Mario.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Megaman X
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Oct 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 12:21
Well, I think games to both PC's and Consoles are too expensive. Very few of the games I have were worthy. Have anyone tried Die Hard Nakatomi Plaza? It's nothing but the biggest s*it I've ever played. However, it's being sold here for like 60-80 US. And many of the games comming out to the market are junk with nice boxes. RTCW is another one. The graphics are not really that good they said it is and the playability is like old school games. I wonder what DooM 3 gonna be..."Find the Red Key, Kill the Monster with a machine gun and psycko powers, find the purple key ( wow, a new key color ).
Let's face the truth, it's getting easier and easier to make games. Tools, engines already done that u can buy ( not we, but big companies does, as The Vault who made Half-Life with Quake 1 + Quake 2 engine, Heavy Metal who uses Quake 3 engine and so on). Even directX 7.0 allows u to code a game using Visual Basic (relativly simple and VERY fast, but collisions still requires C++). To make games today IS EASY, make something good is another question. And most of the games are junk and not worthy it's price. I can keep a long list here as Final Fantasy series, expensive, nice graphics and nothing new since the very first one, even the songs are the same with new arranges. Or the game for PC/PSone/Saturn basead on the movie "The Crow - City of Angels".......arghhhh, I will stop here...

Download all the junk with Kazaa while it's so expensive and poor quality. Beware, much more junk will come out with huge prices.
Games currently worthy of it's price are for exemple GTA3, Neverwinter Nights and Dungeon Siege...Why? Well coded, few bugs, nice free support and the most important...ART ( musics, effects, playability and story are exemples ). The rest...I not really pay for them...
www.kazaa.nl ( has no adds )

Have fun
Rogue
Megaman X
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Oct 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 12:39
"... about 800 people working... "???

For what game????????? Please, take a look at Quake 3 credits...
Well, 800 peoples I bet is at least 3 times more than the dudes used in the movie "Brave Heart"

Hey, have everyone forgotten the little GameBoy Advanced??? How hard is to do a 2D Game as Mario today using already the same bmps from Super Nintendo version of what??? 10 years ago ( not that much maybe )and being sold as 60-70 bucks huh??? lol, emulate instead...

Another thing nice to do is to buy PC Best Buy. Usually older games for 10 bucks and great quality or a second hand store. This decrease the number of games being sold. The rest u download, emulate or buy PC best Buy...
MiRRoRMaN
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 18:28
Okay I was a little sarcastic with 800 people, but I bet if you take a look at how many people japanese company's have working on for example Final Fantasy you come pretty damn close.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.
Megaman X
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Oct 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 24th Oct 2002 05:07
yeah, in Japan is necessary, because most of them are not so tall, so in the case of need to...hmmm, change a lamp, should be necessary two or three japs to help each other. That's why FF need so many dudes lol, just kidding´, dont take me mad

Well, u right, FF has many peoples working on it. I personally think they ONLY work in the Animations and the Boxes...the game is the same for years...BORING FF
QuothTheRaven
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 24th Oct 2002 05:14
The point is that website is bs.
MiRRoRMaN
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 24th Oct 2002 15:30
Quoth: I couldnt disagree with you more.

That website has a very good point.

www.mirrorman.cjb.net, the classic Commodore 64 and Amiga site.

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