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Work in Progress / Bubble Guy - a 3D platformer

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18
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 00:32
There's no real story behind this one, atleast not one that I've decided to make yet, but you play a bubble guy, jump around and get coins, and powerups (temporary timed things like Giant or Flying potions, life, balls that do something that I haven't decided yet...) and at the end you reach a portal to the next level, all while avoiding and popping enemies. Ofcourse the only thing that I've completed on this game is the collection of coins, a star, and jumping around on a 3D world as a green DB ball... o.O Yes it will get better

I intend to have the player model look like this only slightly transparent, and behave like a bubble:



Better music will definetly be added, as the current MIDI is quite tacky... I've already got the new MIDI all saved, but I haven't put it into the game yet; I'll do that as soon as I get a chance.

Screenies!!





The program is attached to this post in .7z format which can be opened with IZArc, and I've heard that WinRAR can open them as well.

You can play the default course by simply running the game, or you can play Course 2 by flipping the names of the two .DAT files. The .DAT files are the level files; you can make your own by using the level editor, which I will attach to another post whenever that is.



FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)

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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 00:38
Oh yea -- Controls! Lol.

WASD to move, [SPACE] to jump, and the Mouse to turn around.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
UFO
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 00:45
Cool. The graphics are pretty cool and the level design is good.

But...(sorry for my frankness)the controls suck. I suggest you have the arrowkeys only with the left and right key rotate the ball, and space to jump. Also, I always get stuck inside one of the platforms. I can't describe which, but it is a low one.

BTW, what happened to the stickman game?

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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 01:03 Edited at: 13th Jun 2006 01:17
Stickman requires alot more experience, which is what I hope to accumulate in this project; it also requires lots of animating experience and I suck at animation

About the controls: Honestly, I hate moving around and turning with the arrowkeys for two reasons: 1) It means I can only turn at one speed nomatter what, and 2) It means that I can't strafe unless I use extra keys. Turning with the mouse allows the right hand to turn at any degree, and the left hand is free to move forward and back, and strafe left and right. Infact, this kind of setup is something I'm very used to and would never let go of because about a year ago I was constantly playing Descent Any Descent or Doom player will tell you that strafing is an absolute must, and anyone who has always played with a keyboard+mouse setup would probably have done this the same way, or similar to. I guess you don't like it because maybe you're used to using the right hand to do all the moving o.O But I'm a complete opposite beacuse in Descent, the right hand aims, turns, pitches, and shoots, while the left hand does all the motion: Thrusting, Boosting, Reversing, Strafing, and Banking Also, alot of people who have never played a 6-DOF (degrees of freedom) game are not used to doing more than two things at the same time with one hand (strafing+moving+banking), which is the secondary reason that I chose this setup. Although banking/pitching is impossible in this instance of the game, you recall the flying potion...

Oh, about the platforms: That's a glitch that I think I can fix, but I don't realy have a concrete idea of how exactly to do it. When you fall from a high distance, you fall faster and faster. This means that you skip down more and more units as you fall, and so when you hit a platform, sometimes the center of the player object will miss the polygon and the intersect line will hit the grass poly below, and land on that instead, even if the center crosses it again because the grass poly has no polies under it, so the ball floats up untill it sits nicely on it. After that, the intersect lines that keep you out of walls are now detecting the wall polies of the platform and keep you in. If you get stuck inside one, try to find a concave 90º corner in the platform, and line your guy right up with the corner at a 135º angle from either outer wall of the platform. Then stick your rear end out directly in the fold where the two perpendicular polies meet at a 45º angle from either of them and continue out, and you'll be free. If you can't find a concave 90º corner, then you have to restart the game This same glitch allows players to accidentally slip inside the platforms when they perform this maneuver on a convex corner. It also happens when falling at the right angle onto a convex edge. It is a failure of IAC and something that Newton will be able to prevent once I switch to that But that will be a long way in development..

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 02:26
Being an experienced platform maker, I have a ton of crit to help you, but unfortunately I wrote you a long post and actdenaly refreshed the screen before posting. I'll re-write it later, but for now I'll at least tell you to cap your framerate or make it timer based, as the game was nearly impossible to play on my fast comp.

The crazy
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 02:50
Looks promising. Want some modeling help? You can see my work around here... I could help you program too if you're also learning programming. Might be good for me Tommorrows my last day of school so if you want asny help I'd be glad

P.S. That bubble guy has inspired me. I'm going to make one right now I think. (whether for myself or if you do indeed wand help )

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 04:16
@ Bizar Guy: It doesn't cap??? What the heck! Sync Rate didn't work on a fast laptop, so I used a variable and the timer() command to make sure that the entire game loop would only run every 15 miliseconds or more! I can't take it...If I don't find a way that DBP will keep my game running at 65 FPS or less I think I will need to make a DLL that makes sure of it o_O.... I don't know how!! AAAAAAHHHHHH!!! -- okimbetternowlol.

@ The Crazy: Thanks for the offer, seeing as my world modelling insights are a bit...boxed in, you could definetly help me make some more open- and free-feeling worlds. As you can see, I've had to put tall walls around the parimeter of both of those worlds, but I need a more seemless way to do it...If only I had that awesome looking tree wall texture from Banjo-tooie...That would be awesome, but I don't know how to get a render with the prober Depth Of Field effect. Neither do I know how I would be able to use Blender to make something like that, and again, I don't know how I would make it so that the landscape gets cut off by trees without looking conspicuous... And I could definetly use some animating help, and another person to consult some math with to get the right light-weighted drag effect for Bubble Guy's limbs.

BTW, I use MilkShape 3D to model stuff with.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Lukas W
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 12:49
Quote: "Sync Rate didn't work on a fast laptop,"

are you sure you use the sync commands correctly then?

it looks good, but still needs some work, uv mapping, lighting etc.
i only watched the screenshots though.

spooky
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 14:33
Not a bad start.

Rotation is a bit too fast on my pc, no ability to look up or down, coins that aren't round, going backwards tilts camera too much, I don't see any of those particle effects when big star is circling you (are you supposed to?).

Biggest problem for me is that you are trying too hard to copy Dumbow and Cool which involved a bubbly looking character running around a 3D landscape collecting coins. I would try and be more unique.

Anyway at least you are trying hard and the game engine is not bad for a start, and at least you are creating a game unlike most of the people on this forum at the minute.

Boo!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 14:37
Timer based game mechanics are key to a professional production.


Come see the WIP!
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:28 Edited at: 13th Jun 2006 17:30
@ Lukas W:
if that isn't right I don't know what is o_O

And how do you expect to be able to crit it if you only use these two limited screenshots? Put more effort into it. I find that most people are pampered with leet lighting and 1024x1024 textures put onto a UV map; if I did that my comp would spit out 2 FPS Eventually I will UV map the levels, and the UV textures will have lighter and darker parts as lighting, but I was shooting for a game that would run decently on anyone's computer.

@ spooky: If the rotation is too fast, move the mouse slower unless you mean that's a problem caused by the game not capping
A First-Person view will be available once I decide to add that, so if you press perhapse the right mouse button it will zoom up into the character's view, giving the player the ability to look anywhere.

Quote: "coins that aren't round,"


Well I'm certainly not going to fill them with any more polies than they already have; maybe in the future if I realy think that they're not round, but for now they are round enough. Poly count is always an issue when making a low-end game... Textured plains with antialiased coin textures Unless you want them to be 3D as well, which is going to cut deep into the poly budget, that's a solution that will make them as round as you want and use up less polies.

Yes you should see sparks coming out of the star

And once this game gets further, collecting coins won't be the primary objective. Actually I'm considering just having coins pop out of the enemies that you kill... Then use them to buy stuff with at stores. The main objective will be to collect key items at the end of every boss level, which will be more than just a battle with the boss, and you'll be that much closer to doing whatever it is that you do at the end o_O Haven't figured that out either...

@ Cash Curtis II: I'm still a bit foggy about how to calculate the right amount of units to move, the right degree to turn, to jump and to play the right amount of animation frames to keep it all at the speed I want o.O Right now I'm just frustrated that manually keeping a timer to hold the game loop >= 15 miliseconds isn't working.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 00:56
Update

Completed
Haven't done yet
Simply an idea that hasn't been taken seriously yet

Got better music into the game
Made skysphere seem more eveningish
Slowed down strafing and reversing (this means you can hold W and S simultaniously and go forward at half-speed)
Added Sync Rate 65
Menu to choose control setup
A way to look up
Add enemies
Replace the star with a portal to the next level
Make a kind of mission file to have multiple levels
Record high-scores

Simply replace "Platformer.exe" with the new one in the download.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:06 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 06:43
I went through the trouble to save the original and add the new exe, but from now on each time you update, re-post the entire thing, media and all.

Will edit after playing the new version.

Edit:
Alright, if this is your first platformer, I must congratulate you on doing an extemely good job. Now for the crit...

Your camera is way too close to the player, and it should also be pointer at the player of just above them. Also, you really need to lower the amount of camera lag. Next, your gravity is far too high. There should be less gravity to make jumping easier, and you should make the jumping less so he still goes the same height in the air. Then, you really need to slow down the strafing; about half of what it is now would be good. Next, the controls. The wasd keys are fine, but the jump key should be the left mouse button, not the spacebar. Also, make it so that moving the mouse up and down tilts the camera respectively. It's a much better solution that a first person mode for the pc. And one thing that bugs me is that when you hold down the jump key, the player just bounces. You should make it so that they have to press the key again to jump.


To see what kinds of things even dbc is capable of regaurding platformers, I sugest you download my game Old School, which is also in the wip. And if you haven't downloaded the D&C demo or purchased it, I urge you do do so as well.

Sergey K
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:21
nice! i like it! =]

althought there sometime a bug with the collision.. i entered twice into the platforms and couldent get off from there.

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Forums(About BLO and more):http://gogetax.com/forum
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:28
Post # 4 tells you why

@ Bizar Guy: I find it easier, and space-saving, if I just post the new .exe; that way, now that you know, you can keep all of them in one folder and play any version you want without having to either 1) delete all the old media and re-paste it with the new .exe, or 2) have a separate folder for each version with duplicate media. Or you could just delete the entire folder and unzip the new one o.O But its basically the same thing if you delete the old .exe.

I'll be making a new course maybe this weekend, and the download will only include the media and a level file for it. If I release another update on the same post it will also include the new .exe.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:11
I'm telling you because I don't save many of the wips I download, I just open them to a temp file, so I don't clutter my comp with them. If you just export it to a final rather than just an exe, you won't have to deal with this problem.

And did you read the rest of the post? I think I included some important things in there...

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:51 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 02:51
Ok now I've read the rest..

Quote: "Your camera is way too close to the player, and it should also be pointer at the player of just above them."

I can fix this easily, but first I need to figure out how to use waypoints to make the camera automatically avoid objects in the world; if you make tight turns around corners you will definetly see that the camera is a bit stupid

Quote: "Also, you really need to lower the amount of camera lag."

ok.

Quote: "Next, your gravity is far too high."

I made sure it looked like gravity on earth, and it seems that it's falling at the right speed.. I can make the player go faster when it's jumping, but I would prefer realistic gravity.

Quote: "Then, you really need to slow down the strafing; about half of what it is now would be good."

I slowed that down to 50% of the forward speed as well as backtracking. If you mean to cut it 50% again that would be unbearably slow

Quote: "The wasd keys are fine, but the jump key should be the left mouse button, not the spacebar."

Purly opinion. Most games I've played, some of which were platformers (very cheap cerial box games ), always have space to jump. Halo does it. Red Faction does it. Pretty much every groundpounder I've ever played without using my USB controller has space as the default jump button.

Quote: "Also, make it so that moving the mouse up and down tilts the camera respectively."

Easy enough, but I'll have to do some digging around in IAC...Something I haven't seriously done for a long while now

Quote: "It's a much better solution that a first person mode for the pc."

True, but I still want a first-person mode so that the player can look around and examine the level, so I'll have both

Quote: "And one thing that bugs me is that when you hold down the jump key, the player just bounces. You should make it so that they have to press the key again to jump."

I noticed that in my code I was switching a variable around for when the spacebar was pressed, but it didn't do anything o.O Now I know what it was there for...

Quote: "And if you haven't downloaded the D&C demo or purchased it, I urge you do do so as well."

Salesman.

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 03:39 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 03:40
Quote: "Purly opinion. Most games I've played, some of which were platformers (very cheap cerial box games ), always have space to jump. Halo does it. Red Faction does it. Pretty much every groundpounder I've ever played without using my USB controller has space as the default jump button."

No, it's plain logic. Halo is an fps, and uses the mouse keys for something more important than jumping in an fps. In a platformer, jumping is most important, and should be mapped to a key that doesn't require you to stretch your hand across the keyboard. Take it from an experienced platform maker.

Quote: "I slowed that down to 50% of the forward speed as well as backtracking. If you mean to cut it 50% again that would be unbearably slow "

You've been playing your own game too long. Strafing shouldn't be fast. If you want the player to go quickly left or right, you need to make them actually change direction, like in mario 64.

Quote: "I made sure it looked like gravity on earth, and it seems that it's falling at the right speed.. I can make the player go faster when it's jumping, but I would prefer realistic gravity."

Bad idea. Earth gravity doesn't make for easy jumping. And jumping faster is really bad. You jump and fall way too fast as it is.

Quote: "Salesman. "

noo... D&C is drew camerons game... It's a good platformer in dbpro, and helpful for people making platformers. Mine is Old School, and I really recomend you download it, as it should give you a good idea of all the amazing things you can do with a platformer even in dbc.

Also, there's way too much free space in that level. If that's the entire demo level, the walls should be half the distance they are, so it feels like the level fills the world.

Please listen to people. Especially those who know more about platformers than you. Don't argue for the heck of it.

Sorry if any of that sounds harsh, but if you want your platformer to be good, you have to do it in a user friendly way.

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 04:20 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2006 23:35
*rant*

Quote: "Strafing shouldn't be fast."

Unless you're dodging a projectile of some kind...Ones that move at over 100 fps I want it to be useful so that you can fire back

Quote: "Bad idea. Earth gravity doesn't make for easy jumping. And jumping faster is really bad. You jump and fall way too fast as it is."

ooh...I guess realism is useless in a very unrealistic world anyway

Quote: "D&C is drew camerons game"

Yes and he has hired you

Quote: "Also, there's way too much free space in that level. If that's the entire demo level, the walls should be half the distance they are, so it feels like the level fills the world."

Atleast it's just a demo level.. But I was worried the player would be able to jump off of one of the higher platforms onto the top of the wall, and get out. They are supposed to stay in their stony prison!! I will try to see what I can do about the levels which will be actually used in the game. If I do end up having more empty space I can use it for a pit of death A sucking, pulling pit...

I put all the new camera stuff in it and it makes it better now Still haven't fixed the gravity though..

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 05:19 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 05:43
PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE POST Image All!!
Sigh. Have you even ever played a 3d computer patformer? The reason you use a mouse button is because your hand is right there. It's the best possible place to have it if you're using a mouse set-up. It isn't preference, it isn't what I'm used to. it's what works. I'm used to using a joypad, as most platformers are for consoles. I spend half my time experimenting with different control setups. The left mouse button is always the best main action key, and the right mouse button is always the best secondary action key. In a 3d platformer, the main action is jumping, and the second is attacking. Imagine trying to play an fps where the very unimportant jump key is attached to the thing that controls the direction you're looking in. It doesn't work. In a platformer, you play in the 3rd person, and jumping is the most important action by definition.

I can go on about this for pages, but you seem to keep avoiding what I say the most. TRUST ME. I've programmed over ten platformers, and played a good deal more platformers than you seem to have.
Please look at Old School. If you decide it doesn't help you at all, them I'm sorry I made you download it. But I think it will help you considerably.

And re-read my post. You can only shimmy left or right so fast and keep some sort of suspension of disbelief. If you want the player to move quickly left and right, set up a mario 64 like control scheme. And if you’re dodging bullets, you seriously need to ask yourself if what you’re making is a platformer.

And just make the walls higher when you move them closer. Duh. I know it's just a demo level, I even said it was a demo level in my last post. But you're game will look ten times less unfinished if you don't waste space.

Quote: "In all games in general, atleast it would seem, Shooting makes me thing of Left Mouse Button. Jumping makes me thing of Spacebar. Most likely everyone I know would say the same."

No. This is evidence that you've never bought a 3d platformer for the pc. Really only fps games use the spacebar and the mouse.

Please listen to me. Even if you deside I'm wrong, at least try it.

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 05:27 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 05:28
Bizar Guy, you've gone from making a suggestion, to trying to force him to make his game the way you want it to be. It comes down to the fact that this is his game, he'll make it the way he wants to.

If you can't stand the way he did jumping, then don't play it/jump. Personally, I've never played a game where mouse button is to jump, and to tell you the truth, I'm glad that I didn't.

He's not argueing for the heck of it, he's defending himself.

As far as I'm concerned, his platformer will be good if I think it's fun to play. I don't care if he listened to what he was told by an elder.

I am so glad that the makers of some of the most creative and original games out there aren't taking any advice from you.

common people are walking in line.
Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 05:46
@ Open_Froz: But Imageall is NOT being creative; he himself said that he did this because "It's what everyone does."


@Bizar Guy: Much As I like your suggestion, I am totally amendable to either control scheme. If he makes it customizable, then it won't matter much. I agree that right click is a better option, but he obviously isn't going to listen/this is his game. *shrugs* Oh, and what platformers are you talking about? They sound nice...I've only really played 2D ones excepting Dumbo and Cool demo.


@Imageall: This looks roxor, and I think if you eventually include controll scheme options, it will turn out AOK.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 06:01 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 06:23
@open_Froz,
You mean like Soul Hunter?? And D&C?
Should I write down a list?

I assume you don't spend much time in the wip area...

Sorry, but I'm not trying to push him as much as I sound like. I'm asking him to try it, and I don't like that he's refusing to completely. Mostly though I'm angry that he says I'm marketing for d&c, even jokingly. I mentioned it as a good db game to try if you're new to making platformers... I mentioned my own game as well, because there are few db platformers and mine has been referred to as one of the best... It follows that it might be a good example for someone getting into platformers. Interestingly enough, he said I was marketing for someone else’s game, and not my own… Very strange as I mentioned both.

Yes he's defending himself, and I've been in similar situations. When I say arguing for the heck of it, I mean he's making it clear that he's not open to trying something else, even if it's recommended. I rarely argue this much about such a small issue, but generally I deal with people who are more open to new ideas. If I was told that I should use spacebar instead of the up key to jump, I'd try it out and see if it worked better. And when I've refused things people pushed, I eventualy tried them to see if they were better.

My last post was a justification of my position. I wasn't trying to force my opinion on him, I was just countering some of the points he said. I'm glad he will be including a control set up later. I said to read the entire post, because I didn't want to make it seem like I was trying to force him to change as much as show that the control scheme I was opting for worked well.

Quote: "@Bizar Guy: Much As I like your suggestion, I am totally amendable to either control scheme. If he makes it customizable, then it won't matter much. I agree that right click is a better option, but he obviously isn't going to listen/this is his game. *shrugs* Oh, and what platformers are you talking about? They sound nice...I've only really played 2D ones excepting Dumbo and Cool demo."

I completely agree. Having a mappable control scheme is always best if not everyone likes the one you've made the bast. I was talking about games like Phyconauts, and even games like ultimate spiderman, although that's not really a platformer. There aren't that many platformers for the pc, which is why we need to do our best to make the ones we program as good as possible.

Image All
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 06:10 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2006 23:36
*rant*

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 06:15 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 06:50
@All, Read his post, directed at Flindiana who was telling him that his game was looking quite good (which it is, as I said earlier), and you'll understand why I'm so pissed at him after reading it. I don't know how this degenerated from enthusiastic people talking about his promising looking game to a cock fight, but it did. I mean, he's agreeing with flindiana while basicaly yelling at him...

@Image All, Why are you so angry at him? I would think you'd be angry at me if anyone... And if you actualy read my entire posts, you'd see I wasn't posting to force my opinion, I was defending a control schoeme which you denounced. I was simply telling you that the controls you prefere work better in an fps, which is true.

Quote: "I have always done my projects the way I feel is best, because my opinion has precedence over what is mine in the first place; not everyone else's opinion."

Interestingly enough, that's exactly what I do. But I'm amazed you're so adamently refusing to see if someones sugestion could help you. I mean, you were willing to see if a better camera angle would work, but not if a different control scheme would? After all, this board is for getting crit on your project essentialy...
No one can force you to do anything, they just don't want you to piss on their suggestions.

Sorry, but this issue about controls shouldn't have extended past one or two posts... I really don't see how it did...

Edit: I think I figured it out. Each issue I sugested that you refused apon, I pushed equaly with that much more trying to get you to consider it at some level. You were so adament about how other control schemes sucked that I ended up trying to explian why othe control schemes didn't suck. It's not that I really hate yours (it's just a bit uncomfortable), it's that you seem to think every other control scheme sucks.

I wont push it anymore, but please tell people if you wont listen to them on a certain area right off the bat, as I don't want to sugest another thing which gets you so pissed off.

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 06:44
Perhapse I shouldn't have started with the name "Flindiana" then, because after about the first paragraph it was mainly about how I can't stand people telling me what to do after I've already said no. That ticks me off almost every day; I give the answer no and the person I regected then has to go on and tell me to do it again, and again, and again. What nobody in this world seems to get is that when they are given the answer no, they are to stop pressing the issue. No is a valid answer; people like me have to say it over and over, stronger each time to get the point across. Mostly this was based off of the fact that you kept trying to convince me to do what you wanted me to do, when you already had my answer. The thing about me, and people like me, is we have alot of powder and a short fuse. After we blow everything spews everywhere, mostly accidentally phrased as if it was all aimed at someone who we reffered to at the beginning of our venting

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 06:54 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 07:01
I wasn't trying to force you to do it a different way, I was trying to tell you why control schemes you said wouldn't work did.
Look at this thread closely. You weren't saying no, you were saying you didn't think other controls were good. I was simply telling you that they were.

Try to be a bit more open though. You'll find that controls are very important, In the end they have to do with ease and functionality. Finding he best way to control a game is quite fun and doesn't take very long when you're just changing keys. I won't push you on it, but I'm probably going to sugest things in the future you wont agree with imeadiately.

Profit
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 07:03 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 07:05
Bizar Guy, actually WIP is one of the only areas I go to regularly. When I mentioned creative games, I was mainly referring to commercial games. If you asked me if I thought D&C and Soul Hunter were good games, I'd say yes. Does that mean that the way they did things were the only good way to do it? No. (I think that may not deal with what I said before, or what you said. I forget what I thinking of sometimes.)

This isn't really an issue anymore considering recent developments.

Bizar Guy, I would like not to be enemies with you if that's alright.


edit: stop posting the same time as me!

common people are walking in line.
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 07:10 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 07:11
I guess I'll show you how I see the world:



this is basically how I interpret what people say on a subconcious level; from this you can see what initally sparked my aggression and regection of the control change.

o.O

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 07:13 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 07:24
@open_Froz,
I have no enemies on the forums. I don't hold grudges.

And so you know, the games I buy and play the most are the ones hailed for their creativity. And, every awesome skill I have is based on my creativity. I've had tests done on my visual spacial intelligence, and my scores were off the charts. Naturally, I don't like being called not creative....

Quote: "Does that mean that the way they did things were the only good way to do it? No"

You're right, that wasn't what we were arguing about , and there IS no one good way of doing things. If there was I wouldn't hate copy cats quite as much. Every suggestion I give is open ended. Even if it doesn't seem that way on first observation, it is. I was simply saying those were creative games where many of my suggestions were implemented, which was what we were arguing about.

Quote: "this is basically how I interpret what people say on a subconcious level; from this you can see what initally sparked my aggression and regection of the control change."

I see... understand, nothing I say is a chalenge or insult to you, it's simply how I argue. I was saying it was logic rather than opinion like you stated, not that you were ilogical. And I meant that other control sheme would be more responsive given how often you'd be pressing the jump key. I added that I was an expirienced platform developer because that generaly would help show that I knew what I was talking about, and wasn't just pulling it out of my ass... Sorry that it came out the wrong way.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 09:29 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 09:36
Quote: "@ Cash Curtis II: I'm still a bit foggy about how to calculate the right amount of units to move, the right degree to turn, to jump and to play the right amount of animation frames to keep it all at the speed I want o.O Right now I'm just frustrated that manually keeping a timer to hold the game loop >= 15 miliseconds isn't working. "

Easy to do, and you'll love it. When the FPS go way down or up, gameplay is not compromised. You start by defining movement for each entity as DBP Units per second. Also, you define turns as Degrees per second. Let's use a UDT (not saying you do, there are plenty of other ways to do it).



That code won't execute, but it shows the basics of how it's done. You simply move the object the distance it would have moved since the last update in DBP Units per second. I also use this method for animation and rotation. It allows you to build a very solid game.

Quote: "Right now I'm just frustrated that manually keeping a timer to hold the game loop >= 15 miliseconds isn't working."

I recommend that you don't try and limit the speed this way. It creates a bit of a sticky environment. Plus, it doesn't compensate for low FPS, only high FPS.

If you do it this way, 15 seems a bit low. I actually used this method with my first game, Pong y2k. I programmed that on my laptop, and people said it was too fast. So, I limited the loop interval to no less than 17 ms. The problem really occurs when the loop time is just below that.

Let's say, for example, that the program loops every 16 milliseconds. So, the first loop it gets skipped. By the time the second loop comes around, it might be 32 milliseconds, at which point it will execute. It's just not stable or functional enough to really use.
*****


Now this whole thing with Bizar Guy - he's a great person to have looking at your game. His advice to me has always been good and honest. I'll have something in my game I find quite endearing that he, as an honest outside observer, doesn't. The best thing to do is to see if the way he suggests is better. Excluding the possibility because it's not your way just limits what you can do.

As for the mouse jumping, I think it's a good idea. I think that consolidating controls to one input device is always a good idea. It's not always possible. In my WIP, I use space for jumping. That's because everything on the mouse is currently in use. However, in an action based platformer, I find the idea of clicking to jump logical and appealing. I think it's more of a natural reaction when using my control hand for moving and jumping.

I just think that fighting about it is a bit ridiculous. He's trying to help, and he does a wonderful job of it. I think that perhaps you over analyzed his comments and took them a bit personal.

Just something to think about.


Come see the WIP!
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 15:03
Ok I've started on the timer-based movement for the player, but I need some kind of pointer type thingy o.O Can I use a variable name as a pointer somehow by using it as a function parameter?

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 17:06 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 17:07
I just pass the function result back to the UDT. I'm sure using pointers would be fine, but I've never done it. They just seem so procedural, and UDTs seem more like OOP (they're not, but it reminds me of it).

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, though. If you explained a bit more, I could probably help.


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Image All
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 18:10
I was trying to pass a pointer of the UDT I'm using for the player's variables through the movement function call's parameter

And I have an update Now you can press [M] to bring up the menu; in there you can set your prefered jump button, do it as many times as you want, and resume. This is actually the first project where I have to use the FLUSH VIDEO MEMORY command. I was pretty peeved when my graphics driver died three times.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 19:04 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 19:04
Ah, I see.

I usually use entity flags. For example, characters are 1, items are 2, etc. In a function, I might format it as "function (entityType, entityNumber, etc, etc).

So, to pass a character entity UDT, I'd do "function (1, 1)" for character 1. For an item I might go "function (2,1)" for item 2.

Passing one more variable to your UDT manipulating functions should do what you need. I think it's certainly easier than messing with the pointers, and less prone to errors.

Now, maybe you're trying to pass a specific UDT array element to the function, not just char(1) and all of his associated variables, but specifically char(1).speed or something. If I need to do this, I'll either have the function itself set those variables based on the entity type I'm using, or I'll set it with the return value of the function if I need only one number set, like "char(1).speed=function(1,1,etc)"

Hope that helps.



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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 22:02
Could you upload this in a non-obscure compression? What drove you to the insanity of using .7z?

The crazy
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 22:44
Hey Image All, you still want my help?

Quote: " I don't know how this degenerated from enthusiastic people talking about his promising looking game to a cock fight, but it did."


[sarcasm] Hm... I wonder... [/sarcasm]

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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 00:53 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 00:54
@ QuothTheRaven: abvjeajvlen. ....um...... You can unzip .7z files with IZArc, and I've heard that you can also use WinRAR. I find that .7z files are about 3x or 4x smaller than normal .zip files.

@ Guinny pig dude: Sure, I'll need lots of modelling help...Especially animating them. But about Bubble Guy's limbs: do you think I should use pages and pages of Calculus, or just use some numbers?

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The crazy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 01:11
Hm... I think I'm guine(sp?) pig dude... If I'm correct and you're talking to me, what do you mean? I usually dont use calculus when animating.

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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 01:18 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 01:19
Yea that was you I was talking to

What I meant was that I want Bubble Guy's limbs to be controlled by math so that he behaves realistically, rather than having thousands of animation frames for dragging in every driection..

And now to fix that gravity glitch...ok, both numbers have been changed.

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The crazy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 01:26
Well... You'd have to handle that, I'm not a programmer. That's like uber crazy imo

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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 06:13
You don't program? You've got to start right now! Here, download the DBP demo and use the tuts around here to get started. It'll make you feel better!



Yay now I post teh updated version with less gravity

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The crazy
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 06:28 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 06:29
Lol, I own DBP but I'm just not a programming type guy.

I'm actually working on my own game. Started it earlier today. I might have a WIP up tonight...

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Oddmind
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 09:46 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 09:47
im too lazy to read the comments but i did have one problem with collisions, i wound up inside the level.

Other than that it was fun, gravity is a bit overkill i think for a platformer tho

this is me inside the level, i dont know how i got there...



formerly KrazyJimmy

I'm the lizard king, I can do anything.

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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 16:39 Edited at: 15th Jun 2006 16:41
Yea that's a glitch in IAC
Quote: "When you fall from a high distance, you fall faster and faster. This means that you skip down more and more units as you fall, and so when you hit a platform, sometimes the center of the player object will miss the polygon and the intersect line will hit the grass poly below, and land on that instead, even if the center crosses it again because the grass poly has no polies under it, so the ball floats up untill it sits nicely on it. After that, the intersect lines that keep you out of walls are now detecting the wall polies of the platform and keep you in. If you get stuck inside one, try to find a concave 90º corner in the platform, and line your guy right up with the corner at a 135º angle from either outer wall of the platform. Then stick your rear end out directly in the fold where the two perpendicular polies meet at a 45º angle from either of them and continue out, and you'll be free. If you can't find a concave 90º corner, then you have to restart the game This same glitch allows players to accidentally slip inside the platforms when they perform this maneuver on a convex corner. It also happens when falling at the right angle onto a convex edge. It is a failure of IAC and something that Newton will be able to prevent once I switch to that. But that will be a long way in development.."


Lowered gravity in the latest version on this page helps make it harder to fall into other platforms from high up, but I realy can't do much about slipping into platforms from corners or edges...

<offtopic> Man compiling this game takes forever... I'm doing everything on my flash drive </offtopic>

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 18:06
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=65493&b=6
That should help your animation problems.

<OMG></OMG>
NeX, you cant be serious - CattleRustler.
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Posted: 15th Jun 2006 23:36
Well actually I need Bubble Guy's limbs to float and drag around like a bubble. Not being detached from his body, but I don't expect him to actually walk o.O He's just kindof going to bounce, and wiggle around in the air like a bubble while his limbs slightly wiggle and cause alot of drag.

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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 03:13
Like Pom-Pom!

Diggsey
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Posted: 16th Jun 2006 21:10
There is something you can do about the raycasting:
Start the ray from above the players center so that you would have to fall incredibly fast. Also you could have a limit as to how fast you can fall

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2006 23:13
Yeah I think I did that....no, that was the velocity cap on my Asteroids game o.O I should add that soon; first I need to talk the skysphere texture into loading a second time when I delete it from memory and then play the game again. Shooting the ray from higher up would also be a nice little problem-blocker

FunkyStickmen: Battle of the Races (1%)

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