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Geek Culture / DarkBasic Origins?

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JerBil
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Posted: 29th Jul 2006 22:24
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I think Lee or someone explained where the idea or maybe name came
from for DB, but I can't seem to find that thread. Anybody remember?

tia

-JerBil

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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Jul 2006 22:55
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late night television with a bag of cheetos

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Oddmind
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Posted: 29th Jul 2006 23:15
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and a few cold ones

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 00:04 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 00:05
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Apart from the name.. I think the language is very similar to AMOS. Which was Amiga game making language.

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 01:10 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 01:15
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Well, the BASIC is 'Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code', just like other BASIC-languages I suppose. I'm not sure why, but I seem to remember the 'Dark' is from something involving a Dark Horse... Don't ask, I don't know where that comes from.


EDIT: I consulted my Holy Bible(the DarkBASIC Professional Manual) and found the answer :

,, BASIC is acronym for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. Dark derives from the term 'Dark Horse'."

There you go.


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JerBil
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 02:11
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Thanks, guys.
A little more digging turned up this for those interested in Lee's
programming history...

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=newsletter_issue_2

-JerBil

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 02:24
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Quote: "Apart from the name.. I think the language is very similar to AMOS. Which was Amiga game making language."


Indeed. Guess who was the lead Producer for AMOS? (and STOS before it). Give you a clue.. he's one of the directors of TGC

If we could change the name DarkBASIC, we probably would, but it has quite a lot of IP around it (and a reputation both good and bad). The transition to Vista could well be the end though.

For your amusement here is a list of names we all voted on when developing DBPro.. i.e. these are what it COULD have been called at the time:

Dark Basic 2
Dark Basic Gold
Dark Basic Platinum
Dark BASIC Khamsin
Dark BASIC Anubis
Dark BASIC Phoenix
Dark BASIC Warlock
Dark BASIC Prophet
Dark BASIC Evolution
Dark BASIC Ascension
Dark BASIC Genesis
Dark BASIC Sentinel
Dark BASIC Apocalypse
Dark BASIC Omega
Dark BASIC Messiah
DB Evolution
DB Genesis
DB Revolution
DB Xtreme
DarkBASIC 2002
DarkBASIC NG or Next-Gen
DarkBASIC Revolution
DarkBASIC Xtreme
DarkBASIC Universal

Gotta love 'DB Evolution'.

Cheers,

Rich

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 02:45
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Dark BASIC Warlock would have been sweet.

*How Cash, that's a cool game. What did you program it with?*
*Umm.... Well... cough darkbasic warlock cough


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 03:46
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Dark BASIC Messiah would have been an interesting, two words that seem to clash, could have just called it Dark Messiah.


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Oddmind
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 03:58
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dark messiah sounds like a metallica song...

I think its cool to research what has now been sewn in our gene pools

DBPro ftw.

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Steam Assassin
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 04:40
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Why didn't you name it "Dark Basic: The New Adventures"?


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IanM
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 04:52
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Dark Basic Pro - The revenge!

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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 04:55
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Dark Basic: The Sequal

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Zerk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 08:51 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 08:52
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Quote: "The transition to Vista could well be the end though."


What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that DBP doesnt work on Vista or something?

I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do. ~Hal-9000
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Chily Dog
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 09:58
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Quote: "What is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that DBP doesnt work on Vista or something?"


I'm sure DB will find a way. It's grown too far to just "die" when a new version on Windows comes out.
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Steve J
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 12:01
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Dark Basic: Roulette

You never know what the anwser will be, but when it happens, its going to be suprisingly unexpected.

Go to http://www.milkpaton.com/ for Awesomeness
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 12:08
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Quote: "The transition to Vista could well be the end though."

The name, as I undeerstand it.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 12:44
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Aw, well you had Dark Basic Revolution - why not DBWii

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Kenjar
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 13:08 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 13:18
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Quote: "I think Lee or someone explained where the idea or maybe name came
from for DB, but I can't seem to find that thread. Anybody remember?

tia

-JerBil"


It was the "Which Atari ST game would you most like to see remade?" thread I started a while back. It was Richard Davey who said it.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=82170&b=2

9th post down.

Quote: "Quote: "the STE was somewhat better, but came way too late."

Made no difference to the ST in resolution though. STE was exactly the same res options as the STF/M. Just had 4096 colours instead of 512. Not that 512 ever stopped most artists from pushing the limits mind you. There are some much nicer STE only games though, mostly thanks to the Blitter and DMA sound (finally). The STE was indeed too late, but by the late 90s Atari wasn't the only ship sinking. Alas poor Amiga, you too died a horrible death at the hands of an inept company. Typical really.

Still, you can thank STOS for DarkBASIC - if Rick hadn't worked on STOS, there would have been no DarkBASIC.
"



[href]www.openoffice.org[href]
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 17:30
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Quote: "dark messiah sounds like a metallica song..."

Leper Messiah, but yeah, Dark Basic Messiah is the best one, simply because it says 'I am the greatest'

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Dazzag
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 18:12 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 18:13
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Quote: "Dark Basic Messiah is the best one, simply because it says 'I am the greatest'"
See that game dev people are jerks thread? If DBP had come out with Messiah in its title it we bound 10 times worse, then we might as well have called it DB NappyRash and be done with it. I mean, come on. They must have thought of that one after watching some epic Anime after finishing off a crate of the good stuff. I mean anyone over the age of 13 would have trouble with that one. Heh, just imagine... "So yeah, I was considering C++ for game dev after messing about with Delphi and VB. .Net was looking mighty nice, but then I saw Dark Messiah... erm... yeah... erm, stop laughing... no it's a programming language... honest... stop overloading my email account with filth now.... erm..."

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 19:08
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I love Dark Basic, hate the name. It would kind of be like if I was a competitive runner, and I wore FluffyBunny shoes to run in.


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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 21:20
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Not crazy about the name either, but pretty much every BASIC language has the word BASIC in it.

I used to get hung up over the name too, especially when going through job interviews, but then I realized what DBP is essentially. It's the best prototyping language in existance, and if you elude to your interviewee that you use it for "prototyping" game ideas before bringing them to C++, then that should be good. It shows that you're efficient, at least.


"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Jul 2006 23:06
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I was talking about the NAME possibly not making it onto Vista. The language itself most certainly will.

The name is a double-edged sword. It is VERY well known, gets extremely good Google rankings, and a lot of people have heard of it both in the industry and out.

It also carries a lot of negative baggage with it, left over from the early days. There are a lot of people who won't touch it (or 'come back') to it because of negative experiences in the past, even if they are now mostly unfounded. A name (and OS shift) could level the playing field somewhat in that regard. Possibly.

That and the name doesn't actually describe or mean anything. We'll see though.

Bite my shiny metal ass
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 02:16
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If you rename it and want alot of hits name it something like Anna Kornikova's Naked Basic. Maybe this could be your next contest, to rename DB

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Zerk
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 02:20 Edited at: 31st Jul 2006 02:21
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Quote: "I was talking about the NAME possibly not making it onto Vista."


Ok whew! Yes, I agree about the name. When I say "Dark BASIC", my friends and collegues cringe because of the rep BASIC has.

Although DB was founded around BASIC it has become much more I believe. A name change away from the BASIC moniker could work.

Since DB brings out the best of Direct X, how about something like "Dark X"?

I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do. ~Hal-9000
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Freddy 007
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 03:25
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Why does it have to be so 'Dark' and insensitive?


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 03:44
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Quote: "Dark Basic on a Plane"

That would be an awesome name

What about using BASIC not as a "surname" (so to speak), but as the first word in the name, like "BASIC Darkness" or something (terrible example but hopefully you get the hint as to what I'm suggesting). BASIC-Something might be kinda neat... or maybe I have bad taste, who knows


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 03:49
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how about Dark Engine?

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Steam Assassin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 04:55
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How about Dark Dark?


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jasonhtml
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 05:03
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actually, for me, the BASIC part of the name is fine... its just the dark part... whenever i tell a friend that i program in DarkBasic Pro, they're like 'DARK basic???'


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
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JerBil
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 07:47
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Possible names:
FlatBlack
Chartreuse Basic
BasicLee
LeeInAmber
Upgrades-R-Us

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Oddmind
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 08:09
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how about

Dark Puddle of Blackness Engulfing a Flaming Hornless Unicorn That's Crying and Bleeding Black on the Stone Stairwell that Leads viciously Into the Mosuleum Gates and Into the Heart of Fear and Woe Itself.

then all the emo kids would start coding

formerly KrazyJimmy

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Steam Assassin
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 08:56
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Oh No! Not EMO!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 10:30
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Quote: "Dark X"
Oh dear.....

Quote: "the BASIC part of the name is fine"
Yep. VB .Net is perfectly ok for example. Best bet is to make it into an acronym and never mention the basic bit. eg. DB+, DB# or DB .Net. Unfortuantly everyone knows DB as DarkBasic, so is a bit tough. Annoyingly calling it Vista Basic makes it VB. Doh. How about D#? Got a certain ring no?

Cheers

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Van B
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 11:09
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I find it's best to not tell people you code.

Of course, there's nothing worse than someone refusing to believe 'you made that', it's actually insulting to hear that.

But really, even if I coded in GirlyPinkBASIC, anyone dissing it better be doing something better, or I'll own them in front of all their mates.

Aegrescit medendo
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 14:24
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Quote: "Of course, there's nothing worse than someone refusing to believe 'you made that', it's actually insulting to hear that."


Depends on how they mean it. If its "Your to much of an idiot to have made that" then ya an insult, but if it were along the line of "One person could not have made such a great game" I would take it as a complement.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 15:05
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That's not what he means. Imagine this - someone told you they made a first person shooter, complete with tons of enemies, realistic physics, animated billboards, 3D sounds, etc. You're like "Wow, cool, what did you make it with?". They reply "I used First Person Shooter Creator..."

Naturally, you're going to assume that they didn't really make it, they just put it together with some kind of toy game making program. When you say "Dark Basic" to someone that isn't actually familiar with it, that's what they assume. They tend to assume that you can type "Make terrain", "Make enemies", and "Play game" or something. It is insulting, because that's most certainly not what Dark Basic is. It's a real programming language, with Basic syntax and DirectX support built in. It takes real programming and art skill to make a good game with it. Look around, there are tons of pipe dreams and terrible games.


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HowDo
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 15:06
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look up the word Dark in Crossword Dictionary, could have been anyone one of these.

Dim
Fog
Sad
forbidding
frightening.

there's more but I'll let you find them.

I'm not getting you down am I, Ho Look! another fancy Door?
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Van B
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 15:11
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I'm thinking it's the first one, it's only people I work with that consider me at all intelligent .

I accused my mom of condescending me one day, and you know what she said?

''How could I condescend you?, you don't even know what that means!.''


One thing that annoys me too is when people ask ''how do you know how to do that?'', as if you can explain it all before they get bored and wander off.

Coder arrogance helps me disregard these peons opinions, because they will never make anything better . All of the worst critics do nothing, have no hobbies - they just float between other peoples handing out their educated opinions and bile.

They should just leave people alone to code, stop interrupting them, make them some coffee maybe, anything but habitually negative critism peppered with unrealistic ideas - PLEASE.


Soz for the rant .

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 16:53
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Quote: "That's not what he means. Imagine this - someone told you they made a first person shooter, complete with tons of enemies, realistic physics, animated billboards, 3D sounds, etc. You're like "Wow, cool, what did you make it with?". They reply "I used First Person Shooter Creator..."

Naturally, you're going to assume that they didn't really make it, they just put it together with some kind of toy game making program. When you say "Dark Basic" to someone that isn't actually familiar with it, that's what they assume. They tend to assume that you can type "Make terrain", "Make enemies", and "Play game" or something. It is insulting, because that's most certainly not what Dark Basic is. It's a real programming language, with Basic syntax and DirectX support built in. It takes real programming and art skill to make a good game with it. Look around, there are tons of pipe dreams and terrible games."


VERY true... one work around for that i found was to tell the people that you typed X thousand lines of code to build it. then they are like 'wow!'


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 17:07
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Dark Evolution
Dark DS
Dark Light
Dark Advanced
Dark ++
Dark Basic 3
Dark.BaSiC
Dark Basic=BetterThenC++
DB (Pronounced DB)++
DB Advanced
DB 44

Just a few names!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 19:27
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Dark Evolution - NO!
Dark DS - Perhaps. If it also worked on the DS. Links too much to Ninty
Dark Light - Turn off the SciFi channel! Get some air!
Dark Advanced - Doesn't sound right....
Dark ++ - Perhaps D++...
Dark Basic 3 - Keeps us on the same path (DBP3 to follow...)
Dark.BaSiC - That is SiC... Nah...
Dark Basic=BetterThenC++ - Aha...
DB (Pronounced DB)++ - Sounds like a joke. D++ still does it for me. Or D#
DB Advanced - No. What was Pro then?
DB 44 - 404 morelike.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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jasonhtml
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Dark Light? lol


Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 19:42
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Dark Sunrise.
Dark Whole
Dark Knight
Dark Ness
Dark Digit

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
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Zerk
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 19:44
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Quote: "D++ still does it for me. Or D#"


lol! Um... no.

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Big Man
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 19:57
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Steering away from teh name part of it for a bit.

When making a new Db for vista i think maybe you should start taking the language down a more C++ route but only slightly. Like what you have done with DGSDK but not that much like C++.

I hope you understand me you just need to add more power and flexibility to the language.

Cheers

BM

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Dazzag
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 20:07
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Quote: "lol! Um... no"
Yeah, I know. But it's got to be better than Dark Messiah. God. Personally I would stick with something like DarkBasic 3 and be done with it. Any change to make it sound more professional and serious are just going to be seen as a joke by everyone else really. We all know it as Dark Basic, and most people who do game dev as a hobby know about it. Why mess around?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 20:11
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Quote: "When making a new Db for vista i think maybe you should start taking the language down a more C++ route"


I don't really agree. That is the direction BlitzMax took, when all people really wanted was a good comprehensive upgrade to the language they all loved and used (B3D). If DB has one thing going for it, it is that it's easy to use. We shouldn't ever loose that, infact if anything we should swing the other way a little more, and we have various internal plans on how to achieve this.

There are lots of things I'd personally would like to see done to the core language that could be really useful, but if its a structured C++ like syntax you require, DGDK is the route to take. I'd like to see the ability to make far more 'tidy' source.. for example function grouping (and overloading) would be nice, expanded types, far more dynamic array handling, and perhaps even a basic semblance of OO structure (functions into methods, etc), but we'd have to tread carefully here - complexity breeds animosity.

There will be plenty of time to discuss what DB Vista should and shouldn't do (all of us) when development starts on it. But there is lots more to do with DBPro and DGDK first.

Cheers,

Rich

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 31st Jul 2006 20:15
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@ Van: I don't work with you and I think you're intelligent. Anyone who thinks you aren't is probably high like the cast of Trainspotting

@ Big Man: To make DB more like C++ would defeat the purpose of making a simplistic language that's easy for newcomer's to understand. It's never easy to create a language/ compiler that beginning programmers and advanced programmers will both enjoy and I think they did a great job at that. If I might generalize a bit, I think most of DB's limitations come from the capabilities of DirectX, and if the new version relied on DX a little less and took the actual hardware into account more it would allow the things that really matter to us: more polys on the screen Oh wait, nevermind, that's just what matters to me lol.

I still think the name should be BASIC [something]...there's no need to bow to the will of conformity here, hehe. Well, I guess it's been done before, like with BASICA, and I'm sure there's probably other languages that did it that I'm unaware of. Ack, forget my idea lol


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