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Geek Culture / IE7 -vs- FF2.0

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 18:31
Ok - I installed FF2.0 and have been pleasantly surprised how the new features kind of grew on me and crept up on me. But thats not the point of this thread.

Who has installed and used IE7? Is it worth the effort? I use IE6 once a month or so... However I also make websites for a living and as a hobby. I need IE6 and 7... Is it possible to run both on 1 system or is it an upgrade? (I use WinXP SP2 Pro)

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spooky
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 18:44
I am still using IE6 but I have clients asking me if our web-based software works in IE7. Luckily I have a desktop pc and a laptop, so I'm gonna install IE7 on my laptop to test everything.

Ideally I'd install IE7 on my main pc but, like you, it makes testing multiple configurations impossible, specially as I write websites for a living.

Same prob with FF2, if I install that, then how can I test my websites on old versions of FF.

Boo!
_Nemesis_
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Location: Liverpool, UK
Posted: 26th Oct 2006 18:56
I prefer IE7 because I still think it's faster than FF which is why I moved from FF in the first place. I also like the little button that displays a snapshot of all the open tabs - I think that's quite useful.

If I had a choice between IE6 and FF though, I'd go with FF any day - so there, it's nothing to do with me being an MS Fanboy

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BatVink
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Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 26th Oct 2006 19:40
I'm using IE7, it's not too bad. It still has it's moments when it crashes for no apparent reason though, but now you lose many pages instead of just one!



Jeku
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 20:22
I installed both and still use FF for 99% of the stuff I do. I believe (don't quote me on this) that there is a software app you can use to show you what a site would look like with tons of different browsers. At least I used to use it when I was doing web dev.

Phaelax
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 21:26
I like IE7 on vista, but since I mainly run 2k, there's no IE7. I primarily used IE until I tried FF2, which I'm beginning to use more often now. I still dont like how ff downloads files.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 21:31 Edited at: 26th Oct 2006 21:37
Whats wrong with how FF downloads files ?
It does it, quickly, with a nice little progress bar and whatnot.

Visit my web site for real bangin' stuff. Word.
Raven
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 21:34
If you install Internet Explorer 7, it does install over iexplore.exe; however it also preserves the executable under a different name which is still accessible through you're standard desktop explorer. (probably for compatibility means on XP)

Personally I'd prefer having IE7 UI for the desktop explorer, as it's just far more intuative(sp?) to use. Removes much of the useless clutter and is very quick at webpage fetch, display and opening.

On the whole is is a much leaner and better browser. It's new support of XHTML 1.0 and CSS 2.0 certainly helps make it easier to develop websites for it. It still has some of the IE6 display quirks, such-as layering CSS over using each as a seperate style.

However it does finally display tags correctly.
The security features are far more integrated as well, especially with Live!One installed... they work very well together to provide a very secure and safe internet experience.

I would suggest as far as web-dev goes, probably a good idea installing IE7 to help with development; you can always back-up your IExplorer.exe manually and run it seperately as it'll work fine cause IE7 doesn't use the same libraries.

I'd be surprised if you don't start using IE more and more, once you install IE7.

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David R
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 22:12 Edited at: 26th Oct 2006 22:23
I must say, I absolutely detest this new version of IE. Before you call me a fanboy of FF or whatever, I have just installed IE7 and I am using to write this post; I am not impressed.

The new UI feels very out-of-place. Its like MS deliberately designed the UI to move things out of place from where you're used to it, as if just to increase the annoyingness.

[I also very much miss the spell checker from FF, which I just noticed isn't here due to the lack of underlining of annoyingness]

The UI is also a big big waste of space. There's a big empty block of nothingness - what's the point? If it's empty, just get rid of it! The UI customization is also very inflexible; its still the age-old 'Add/Remove' button tool, which is very poor when it comes to rearranging, or completely removing buttons (I've found it literally impossible to remove the Adobe Acrobat button from the toolbar. There's just nothing there to remove it with). Cleartype is a pain in the ass too. Any time I turn it off, it magically turns itself back on - great settings system its got there eh?

The final, and largest irratation, is of course the tabs. It insists on displaying that dumb 'You've opened a new tab' screen each and every time you open a new one. I really like the streamlined tab interface, but the stupid tab page slows everything down. It should just be blank. The favourites system also looks to be quite annoying too - there's no menu-structure, just a gaint great block which has to be closed in a two-step effort.

Security is a joke too. Microsoft's attempt at increasing security just means asking for permission to do any damn thing what-so-ever. Even bloody XML pages prompt a security warning, and after its been 'allowed' the page has to refresh for it to apply! And for some bizarre reason, the security slider under options only goes down to 'medium-low' - which still doesn't disable the forementioned security check - why not just have a 'low' setting, or maybe even just a bloody 'off' setting, or does MS just assume its consumers are just to bloody stupid to secure their own PC's. It treats you like a baby; and that's the main thing I can't stand about it. It doesn't trust you to have any freedom over it what-so-ever, and rules with an iron-fist.

Another typical security overflow Microsoft product. That condescending cake should of been sent from Mozilla to IE, because they need it!

(You can tell I'm suffering without the inline spell checker by the way!)

EDIT: I think the big block of nothingness may actually be caused by the Adobe Acrobat button - but still, I can't get rid of the bloody button, with this retarded UI customization

Jeku
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 23:30
Yowch I hate Live!One I regretfully installed it last week and it turned on MS Firewall for me, and greyed out the option to turn it off! WTF!? Then I gave up and tried to do some port forwarding--- which didn't work at all as advertised. I eventually had to reinstall Windows because my bit-torrent client kept complaining of NAT errors. Argh.

David R
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Posted: 26th Oct 2006 23:33 Edited at: 26th Oct 2006 23:37
Ignore everything that was here.

FoxBlitzz
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Location: United States
Posted: 26th Oct 2006 23:39
Quote: "I prefer IE7 because I still think it's faster than FF"


Really? To me, IE7 seems to have longer page loading times than FF does.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 00:12
Quote: "It insists on displaying that dumb 'You've opened a new tab' screen each and every time you open a new one"

You can tick the box so that wont appear again.

Visit my web site for real bangin' stuff. Word.
IanM
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 01:24
I like the new look of both of them, and they both run fast on my machine, but I've had one crash with IE so far, and I don't like the fact that I can't drag a link over an existing tab to update that tab - it just updates the current tab

Still, they both get my thumbs-up, but I'll carry on using FF for now.

... and the FF spell checker kicks A!

Raven
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 01:50
I like my borken inglitch in Exporer ^_^

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Dr Manette
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 02:01
As usual, any change to my computer sets off my "everything is not exactly the way it was five minutes ago" alarm. Having downloaded IE7 a week ago, I find it already as familiar as my old version. FF will take some time to get used to, but that spell checker rocks, as I just noticed when I spelled 'familiar' wrong!

Bio Fox...four guys, one computer, games like nobody's business. Join our forum: http://biofox.aceboard.com
ionstream
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 05:42
The "Clear type" in IE7 I suppose is a plus, although it does make some text blurry. I prefer Firefox though, because it feels like I can do more with the menus. Plus the RSS is nicer in FF.

Quote: "Ignore everything that was here."


As much as I'm trying, I can't seem to do it!

That's not as bad as you think you said.
PowerSoft
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 10:04 Edited at: 28th Oct 2006 21:34
***Edit to save page width***

Jeku
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 10:35 Edited at: 27th Oct 2006 10:36
^^^^

All you have to do is go to Mozilla's homepage and it's right there.

Kentaree
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 11:44
Cleartype in IE7 is dire, when I went to visit www.theregister.co.uk with it, it totally decimated to font and cut the top half off some words.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:03
Cleartype - ironically - give me eye strain! Makes everything look blurred.

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Raven
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Posted: 27th Oct 2006 14:10
Cleartype is only any good for people with poor vision.
Most of my friends and relatives love it (not just in IE7 but on XP as well), but to me it's very difficult on the eyes and gives me tension headaches alot.

Just turn it off, as it's not as if the option is hidden in the depths of some where.

Intel Pentium-D 2.8GHz, 512MB DDR2 433, Ati Radeon X1600 Pro 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista RC1 / XP Professional SP2
ThinkDigital
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 01:47
I use cleartype and I can see just fine. It looks nice. *shrug*

Also, I'm a Firefox 2 person. I don't plan to download IE7 until they work the kinks out of it. And there'll be plenty of kinks, I get the feeling.

Raven
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 02:53
IE7 runs fine on my desktop pc, not crashed once and that is still running Beta 1.

Can't say FireFox has either, but then I very very rarely use it.

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Phaelax
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 28th Oct 2006 19:33 Edited at: 28th Oct 2006 19:37
Quote: "Whats wrong with how FF downloads files ? "

Nothing now, I found Settings menu.

Eh, Safari is still the best I think.

I do come across some websites that display incorrectly in FF2 but just fine in IE. (mostly myspace pages, so I can't really hold that against FF)


Here's an attached photo of memory usage of IE6 and FF2, both up and running with Slashdot loaded.



Another comparison:

memory usage
IE6 - 28mb
FF2 - 44mb

page loaded: this very thread.

Displays correctly in IE, but in FF2 the page extends way beyond the screen, creating the need for long scrollbars rather than wrapping to the width of the window.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike

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Nicholas Thompson
20
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 28th Oct 2006 19:43
Quote: "memory usage of IE6 and FF2"

Thats not really comparing like for like Its like comparing fuel consumption of a hybrid car to a 1980's Ford Escort

I am actually really liking FF2 now...

I just loaded it up on mine and got informed before loading that iFox 2.3.4 had been updated to 2.3.5 and if I'd like to install them before loading the browser. This meant I didn't get half way to loading all my pages and then being told I needed to restart my browser!

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Robot
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 19:45
The page extending is caused by the link in PowerSoft's post
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 19:55
Ahhh sweet toggle...

Can a mod (or powersoft) add the closing [/href] tag to his post?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 20:05
Nice analogy Nicholas.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
PowerSoft
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Posted: 28th Oct 2006 21:35
Got rid of it, before I saw your post asking me to edit it, for the record.

sorry guys

spooky
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th Oct 2006 00:07
Bit the bullet and installed IE7 on my laptop to test a few of my work websites and everything seems ok except for a massive change in the way javascript popup windows now have a required address bar. Many CMS systems, including our main work app work in a popup window to hide the URL and extra guff from being viewed by user. Not the end of the world but may cause us grief as it is impossible to turn off because MS want popup windows to always show the URL as part of its anti phishing stance.

Boo!
Raven
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Posted: 29th Oct 2006 04:51
Quote: "Thats not really comparing like for like Its like comparing fuel consumption of a hybrid car to a 1980's Ford Escort "


and bizarely the escort seems to have better mpg
IE7 is even better on the memory, but it is bizare that FF2 uses more memory than 1.5 :\

Intel Pentium-D 2.8GHz, 512MB DDR2 433, Ati Radeon X1600 Pro 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista RC1 / XP Professional SP2
FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 30th Oct 2006 23:48 Edited at: 30th Oct 2006 23:48
Quote: "Cleartype in IE7 is dire, when I went to visit www.theregister.co.uk with it, it totally decimated to font and cut the top half off some words."


Umm, ClearType works just fine here. No cut-off letters or replaced fonts (Of course, this is with Firefox 2). It appears to increase the resolution of text, so that it doesn't look all pixellated. Do keep in mind, however, that ClearType is intended for use on LCD screens, and that it may not have as good of an effect on CRT.

Personally, if there's one thing I dislike about ClearType, it's that the red and blue areas are too visible on lower resolutions.

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Steve J
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 02:27
I love ie7. My new default browser=D. Maybe

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 05:53 Edited at: 31st Oct 2006 05:53
I use Opera (which is faster/uses less memory/etc than both), but I would probably use IE 7.0 over FF 2.0. I don't know about the latest versions, but both IE and Opera are faster than FF and use up less memory, and actually the version prior to FF 2.0 had more security holes than IE did.

Steve J
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 05:57
And Opera is like apple: Nobody likes it enough for holes to be exploited majorly

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 05:59 Edited at: 31st Oct 2006 06:43
Quote: "And Opera is like apple: Nobody likes it enough for holes to be exploited majorly"

I have absolutely no idea why not enough people like apples so they aren't exploited, but ignoring that, thank you for reinforcing my point that Opera is the most secure.

edit OOOHHH you meant the company. Capitalization is your friend!

edit2 vv you are correct

Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 06:32
Quote: "I have absolutely why not enough people like apples"

What? Correctly constructed sentences are your friends. And everyone else's..

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 06:42
lol my mind likes to fill in the blanks my fingers miss, I had to read that three times before I realized I was missing "no idea" in there.

Steve J
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 06:50
sorry if I had much too alcohol. I didnt realize it would get bad. Signing off - Steve.

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 07:11
Oh and one other thing.

Quote: "edit OOOHHH you meant the company. Capitalization is your friend!"

Shouldn't the fact that he didn't specify an article make you think that he was talking about something that wasn't the fruit?

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 07:14 Edited at: 31st Oct 2006 07:14
^^^ it was just the fact that he capatalized every word EXCEPT "Apple," and I thought he just forgot the 's' at the end.

Phaelax
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 08:16
So did anyone else see the slashdot article about the serious memory leaks and bugs in FF2? Explains why FF was using 230mb for no apparent reason the other night.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/28/2115202

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
David R
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 13:32
Quote: "version prior to FF 2.0 had more security holes than IE did.
"


No, there is a subtle difference: The FF community found more security holes than the IE team did.

Benjamin
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Posted: 31st Oct 2006 18:26
Quote: "No, there is a subtle difference: The FF community found more security holes than the IE team did."

Probably because there were more holes to find. Ohhh can you feel the burn of ownage right there??

Just kidding.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 03:42
I just installed ie7, and the comp warned me that it was made by an unknown publisher.

I'm using IE right now, but I may eventually change to FireFox if I see some major reason to do so.

Nicholas Thompson
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 1st Nov 2006 10:58
You say...
Quote: "if I see some major reason to do so"

... straight after saying...
Quote: "ie7"

Quote: "made by an unknown publisher"


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 13:50
yes, I do.


Please don't post in the thread my sig leads to.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 14:04
just thought it was ironic

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indi
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Posted: 1st Nov 2006 15:16
Quote: "
Opera is the most secure
"


its had its bugs as well, perhaps its a lot more secure today.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=opera+security+flaws&btnG=Google+Search&meta=


viva la safari, never had an issue with it. spyware, thats for the windows elite my friend.

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