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Geek Culture / Gaming Consoles, what is the attraction?

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Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 00:44
If I ever get a new console, it'll be the Wii. I just think the future for games is in the input device, and the Wii is the most innovative of the lot. The chucka looks like it could really make games fun.


Mr Tank
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 01:08
I only have console games. I can't stand that on PC you have to worry about how many this and that's your computer has got, and even then it randomly decides to do other things when you're playing causing it to crash or slow down.
From a coders perspective it is also sucking. You can only code for the lowest spec machine, which is a bit hard to pinpoint, and if you do the "optional levels of detail" thing (with the graphics only, that is), it's a pain in the bum, and means that people have a different experience playing and it can therefore impact the gameplay, unless you're very careful.
Even then you can't really design a game that is optimised for all different systems, so you can't use all the gigahertz and rams of any one machine, and even if you can, there's the whole crashing and installing and trying to do multitasking, unless you're a computer whizz and know how to switch it all off before you load the game.
And you don't have a comfy chair and the keyboard beeps at you and most people don't have a joypad.
I got a joypad, and used a ruler to a plot curves of it's "analog" values, and they weren't straight lines- ie the mapping of the thumbstick position had a bizarre relationship with what values it gives you. I managed to figure out what it was, and managed to correct it, but i have no idea whether all PC joypads are the same, so do i put the correction in the game? Also, you can't use the d-pad and the left analog stick simultaneously. Suck much?
With a playstation, everyone has the same machine and controller. You can optimise the game for everybody's machine, and if the game doesn't work or crashes you take it back to the shop (i assume- this has never happened to me). Slowdown is also virtually unheard of. If a game has it, people hear about it.
On the downside, you don't get as high a resolution monitor, and there's no mouse, but that's about it.


You'll be able to click on this someday.
fik
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 01:19
I used to buy at least two PC games and one console game a month. Now i don't buy PC games, as got fed up with all the various anti piracy methods refusing to let my genuine game run on my PC. Because it didn't like one thing or another i had on my PC.
Which left me with a £30 usless round mirror ,unless i wanted to go find a no cd thing on internet and leave myself open to all sorts of hacker / legal risks. Just to use a game i had bought. Which i could have gone to my local market/car boot and got one that worked fine (again same risks). so the stuff didn't work anyway.
Never had any problem on consoles games just work.
Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 02:53
Q: Why is Halo(Halo2) so popular?
A: Multiplayer, but for Halo2 the storyline is pretty freaking cool. Nothing to do with the gameplay really, just something to watch so you don't get bored doing the same thing over and over, as well as convienant for moving to a new area. Still on it's own the story is pretty cool. Wish there was a way to view it seperately to the game like you could with the Perfect Dark storyline.

Q: Why is Killzone so popular?
A: Storyline, no seriously it has one of the best game storylines you will see in a long long time. Well provided you totally ignore the ending, which was just crap and beyond obvious.

S: You *are* allowed to enjoy both consoles and PCs
A: True, as I do... however a majority of people only have a PC for a)school work, or b)internet. Console tends to be used more for gaming.

Figure there must be some sort of demand out there for a Console that does both. The Playstation 3 will provide internet browsing, but no idea how popular that will end up.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
Dr Manette
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Location: BioFox Games hq
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 03:48 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 03:50
The Wii will also provide internet browsing, apparently you have to pay for it though. Not sure about the cost, but I'm not interested in making my console more computer-esque. Plus, my computer is literally feet away from where my Wii will go.

Halo 2, definately a great storyline. I know some people weren't to keen on switching between Master Chief and the other guy(I forget what they're called), but it's a good story device. Can't wait to see how Halo 3 turns out!

Bio Fox...four guys, one computer, games like nobody's business. Join our forum: http://biofox.aceboard.com
Bizar Guy
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Joined: 20th Apr 2005
Location: Bostonland
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 06:28
Wii will cost $250.

OMG!!! Dont U al kno that PC GamiNg is DoooOMMED l0l? Pepl hav beEn sayin it fro yRs s0 it mUSTb e tru.

Console internet browsing is... meh. I can't see it becoming commonplace on anything but the Wii. And I garentee you an rts cannot be made better on a modernday console than on a pc. A pc is almost designed for it, and with such a better selection, I don't see why you'd want to buy one for a console. I'm quite certain that Battle For Middle Earth II is better for the pc.


Please don't post in the thread my sig leads to.
Raven
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 06:52
Quote: "And I garentee you an rts cannot be made better on a modernday console than on a pc. A pc is almost designed for it"


It's all down to opinion really.
Personally I remember a time when people claimed there was no way to have a playable FPS on a console... Just a simple case of people who really prefer to keep their head in the sand when it comes to gaming.

From a hobbyest developer community, this whole thread has actually been quite a bizare affair. Certainly not the responses I was expecting.. I've run this topic on a few other forums across the board, and in-fact got some interesting results.

One things I've heard time and time again though, is the praise of the Nintendo Wii. Given how much people were ragging on it no more than a few months back, it's just incredible how much of a following it now seems to have.

Right now it appears to be..

Sony Playstation 3 - Hardcore Sony Fans
Microsoft Xbox 360 - Casual Gamers
Nintendo Wii - Cross-board Interest/Wonder

On the whole the actual responses to the current console generation seems indicate something interesting. Atleast to me.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 07:10
Quote: "Just a simple case of people who really prefer to keep their head in the sand when it comes to gaming."

Somewhat, but it's mostly that I veiw a standard console controler as a step back from a mouse and keyboard set up for andything but platform heavy 3d games, and only so because few know how to make a 3d platformer work well on the pc. I have a 360 controler for my pc, but that doesn't mean I think it's easier to play an rts with it. I use it for my racing games and platformers, provided they don't play better on the keyboard and mouse. I'm quite certain we'll see a number of good rts games on the Wii, as the Wiimote should work at least as good as the mouse for most operations.
I just don't see how making games work on an outdated control setup that they're ill-suited for is a big achievment.

Honestly I hope the Wii wins for the sake of gaming, because it's the only one of the three new consoles that intruduces any real advancement to gaming. And you forgot to add +Nintendo-Fan-Boys to people interested in the Wii... You must never forget the big N fan boys, as they would be phyched even if the Wii was a re-release of the snes that made toast you could eat while playing your game.


Please don't post in the thread my sig leads to.
Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 07:35
Meh, it's difficult to know the true nintendo fans from the fanboys. While I'm excited about the Wii, tbh the games being developed and released on it aren't anything particularly new.

Not to say it's not a new take, but it's just not sure about anyone else but personally I'm ready for more in-depth games.

Story in quite alot of games is being side-tracked by technology and such... just want a game that'll gripe me storywise for a few hours and keep me wanting to play to the end instead of it being a druge to try and complete something within the limited gaming time i get every week or so.

For me, very few new titles excite me. Right now the only one that seems to have me on edge waiting for is Halo 3, the trailer alone just makes me feel like they've gone all out on the story this time. To me that is something WORTH getting excited about.

Also really looking forward to Final Fantasy XII on the Playstation 2. It might just be me being a little irked about some news I got a few hours ago, but something has clicked about the Nintendo Wii; and despite being a hardcore big-N fan, I've found myself far more pre-occupied with the Xbox 360.

I hope to hell that there are going to be more SERIOUS games on the Wii. Waste of damn time trying to search for many serious games on the GameCube, something that just really got to me about that console. Although I loved some of the light-hearted nature about the console games library, there are points when I just want to go out and randomly murder people for a few hours... without having to pull out the Playstation 2.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
Steve J
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 07:57
Raven, play KOTOR. Best story game ever.

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
Raven
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 10:17
played and completed Kotor and Kotor2, they're quite old now.
Not exactly something I had the urge to play through a second time either...

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
SpyDaniel
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 13:31
I dont like consoles that much, because most of them if any, dont have a mouse and keyboard. I hate using controlers, I used to be good with them, like I am with a mouse and keyboard.

Zappo
Valued Member
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 14:43
Thats just down to practice though. If you use something alot you become fluent with it. I see many people who have never used a mouse before and you forget how awkward it can be. They constantly keep looking down at it when they move it, then back at the screen, then down again... And most tend to remove their hand from it before clicking the button causing it to move slightly - which makes double clicking in the same spot very tricky.
I am much better at all types of gaming (including FPSs) using a console controler than the mouse and keyboard. The WASD keys just aren't natural to me, because I am not used to them. If I want to change weapons or crouch or whatever I have to glanse down at the keyboard to see what key to press - and I can touch type. For this reason I have recently purchased a PS2 controller bridge so I can plug it into a USB port on my PC. Works fantastic and much better than any PC joypad/joystick I have ever used.
indi
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 15:08 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 15:27
The Wii price in australia is ludicrous, ill just wait like everything else.
the ps3 is touted at $999! man thats half a world trip economy class.
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,20689058%5E15306,00.html

Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 20:48
Quote: "PC: Aim with mouse, ducking in and out of cover with the keyboard.

XBox: Aim with both analogues, and move - the major factor being analogue straffing, use that to help you aim more accurately.

See the PC is missing a better movement control"


I disagree 100%. The mouse and keyboard is way more accurate. Besides, a PC supports any joystick you want. I have a generic one and it looks just like a PS1 controller.

Give me a mouse and keyboard and I'd love to see someone beat me in an FPS using only a joystick to control all their movement.

Oh, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but Halo sucked (on xbox). Its too slow.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
David R
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 20:51 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2006 20:52
Quote: "Oh, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but Halo sucked (on xbox). Its too slow.
"


I agree

Quote: "PC: Aim with mouse, ducking in and out of cover with the keyboard.

XBox: Aim with both analogues, and move - the major factor being analogue straffing, use that to help you aim more accurately."


Wrong. On a PC, you mainly control and aim with your index finger (if you get what I mean). Your index finger is [one of] the most accurate and most responsive limbs on your body, and it makes more sense to use a pointing device, rather than a thumb based 'rotation' device

Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 02:26
You use your index finger to move your mouse?

It's the same bloody thing on mouse and controller--- for FPS' the index finger is usually used to fire your weapon with the first mouse button, and the index finger is usually used to fire your weapon with the right trigger on the console controller.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 03:48
Quote: "I hope to hell that there are going to be more SERIOUS games on the Wii."

Disaster: Day of Crisis, and another for the wii looked to be serious with serious story lines. If they're good, I'm sure more will follow. But as it's Nintendo, I don't think the console will ever have a majority of dark serious titles.

And I've seen the reaction time of seasoned Halo vetrans... and it just doesn't compare at all to pc vetrans. There's no comparison. Even inexpirienced pc fps players on average seem to have better response times than console players. I personaly only find 3rd person titles on consoles to be enjoyable...


Please don't post in the thread my sig leads to.
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 07:02
But that's the thing--- obviously on a console you can't tweak things like look sensitivity. On a PC you can get a trick mouse that uses laser precision and quick, etc. On a console everyone has the same controller (almost) so it's more fair.

Obviously I don't think console gamers can take on PC gamers, but console vs. console is more equal in my opinion.

Krilik
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 08:12
Yeah I don't understand how you can compare and compete when one person is using a controller and one person is using mouse and keyboard. Obviously the mouse and keyboard is easier to use. The joystick on a controller isn't responsive to your hand, it moves at its own speed regardless of how fast you move it. So it really doesn't matter how quick you are playing with a controller.

The only remedy to this is how well the game customizes its controls. As far as I know the only game I've ever played on a console that does it well is the Socom series. But you have to be good at using a controller in order to play it well.
The admiral
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 09:51
A lot of people see the limitation of not being able to upgrade a cosole one of the limitations but its not you see this means that games will be better supported, less buggy and saves money. Also for a fact you can unofficially upgrade a console if you know what your doing. Consoles are for people who want compatible, easy to use gaming. I honestly prefer a controller for fps to keyboard so consoles offer this best.

The admiral
indi
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 10:03
there is no comparison with a mouse compared to a joystick.
I watch people use the joystick as well in a horizontal motion trying to avoid the wobbles of moving away from the centre of the screen.

snap click bang dead with a mouse, no question. Call of Duty with a joystick etc.. would be very painful.

adr
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 15:36
First thing I did when I bought an XBOX was stick linux on it.

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game dev ... is like a bouncy castle full of breasts - VanB
Raven
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 15:48
Quote: "But that's the thing--- obviously on a console you can't tweak things like look sensitivity. On a PC you can get a trick mouse that uses laser precision and quick, etc. On a console everyone has the same controller (almost) so it's more fair.

Obviously I don't think console gamers can take on PC gamers, but console vs. console is more equal in my opinion."


This probably has helped with the Halo-Series success, because you can tweak how sensitive the controller is. Players can play between the PC and Xbox version, and don't be fooled by those who have the controller second nature.. I find it difficult to keep up with them even with my native keyboard and laser mouse.

Sure there is a bit more of a learning curve with the controller, but in all is done end up second nature after a while and doesn't affect your overall performance.

I personally find Halo/Halo2 much easier on the Xbox 360, for a simple fact the controller is far better for playing with. Generally on the PC I've started to use the Xbox360 Wired controller for compatible games (like Halo) because it is much easier to play with every single control only a touch away.

Even after over a decade of playing Mouse-Look FPS games on the PC, I still end up looking at the keyboard from time to time to turn on my flashlight, throw grenades, etc. I don't know any PC game that has every single control you're going to use directly attached to controls you don't need to move your left hand with.

I don't mind giving up some of my look sensitivity for the ease of not having to look at the controller. Again this is better on the 360 or PS2 than any other controller, because the Xbox one has those horrible out of place Black&White triggers.

Control methods obviously change between players, although I find it bizare that the issue everyone is stuck on is the Keyboard & Mouse vs Controller.

Might interest people to know that the Xbox 360 October Update, now provides full support for USB Keyboards & Mice.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6400, 512MB DDR2 667MHz, ATi Radeon X1900 XT 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista Business / XP Professional SP2
David R
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 17:39
Quote: "You use your index finger to move your mouse?

It's the same bloody thing on mouse and controller--- for FPS' the index finger is usually used to fire your weapon with the first mouse button, and the index finger is usually used to fire your weapon with the right trigger on the console controller.
"


Try it and see; you'll find your palm does most of the brute force of moving the mouse, but the index finger is usually responsible for twisting the mouse at an angle (or at least, it leads this process). The Thumb does a lot in regards to that, but the index finger keeps it stationary. Oh yeah, and you happen to click with your index finger too

Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 21:20
How very bizarre--- honestly I don't use my index finger for anything other than clicking. Maybe everyone uses the mouse differently? Or maybe it's because I use to be left-handed with the mouse, and I switched about 13-14 years ago?

Chris K
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2006 21:24
I move the mouse with my wrist. I hold it by kind of pinching it with by thumb and two outside fingers.

I guess the thumb kind of helps adjust.

But I can definitely move it fine with my index finger raised.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-

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