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FPSC Classic Work In Progress / EAI WIP Video Thread

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Airslide
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 04:41
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Errant - check your forums inbox - I have a proposal for you I hope you'd like

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Errant AI
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 04:48 Edited at: 20th Nov 2006 04:49
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Thanks so much guys...

Sorry I haven't been on the forums much lately. Got sidetracked playing Oblivion and messing around with this thing:


(crappy model and anims but I was feelin the urge to test a powertool)

Have some more UV tweaking and optimizing to do with the guns in the vids.

Loc... You give me too much credit because the models are not uber low-poly. I have the unpleasant task ahead of reducing things as much as possible. I also realize I need to remap a few parts for better performance with shaders... They work as is but I don't like how the light rolls across certian sections so I'm going to fix that. You can hold off on the sacrifices for now . I lol'd hard enough at that to forgive your use of leet

S4.. I'm pleased that you like what you're seeing!

small fish, FredP... I really appreciate those comments. It may sound a little hoity-toity but thats what I'm aiming for... competitive animations. These are the most complex animations I've ever put into a game engine (or done for that matter) and I'm pretty proud of how they've turned out so far.

filya... Thanks the support. I'm really glad you got a kick out of those. TGCs offer isn't of the contractor variety like with some of the other model packs so no worries of TGC-only exclusivity.


edit: Airslide.. will do.
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Airslide
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 06:00
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Okay Errant, replied

By the way - the powertool - Looks cool, but I think its angled a bit to far to the left when your using it

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 20th Nov 2006 15:14 Edited at: 20th Nov 2006 15:15
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errant, this may appear quite random, but can i see some screens where the weapons dont have the normal/specular maps applied? just the texture, its just some people (including myslef on my laptop) dont really have decent shader support.

they are most likely still more than brilliant, i just wanna look, if possible

nice powertool by the way, lol


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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 02:09
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Ya, never thought of that, I'd like to see them without the shaders too. It doesn't matter too much for me - I want to use them in DBP so I can be more selective about my shaders - but I would still want to see how good they look 'underneath'...

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Errant AI
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 05:28
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No problem fellas.

As you know, FPSC shaders are wonky. So, they basically look the same because I'm compensating for its shortcommings in the _D maps and won't make any more than the most basic passes at spec. and normal maps until the guns are 100% good to go.

Images are sorta large but I'm not going to shed a tear because this is the showcase board after all.



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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 06:00
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Oooooo Cool

Did you get my PM yet?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 06:14
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Glad you like 'em.

Yeah... I got your PM. I'll reply after I go grab some food but I'm pretty much down with the plan... Would love to see glowmaps if you can make that happen.

Forgive my lagginess... just got up about an hour ago (yawn).
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filya
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 06:36
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wow! the weapons look amazing even without shaders!!

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 08:07
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Hmm...I'm not sure what a glowmap is, but if DBP doesn't have it by default, I'm sure I can find the shader off the net

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 12:29
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very cool

is that the effects baked or just the plain diffuse map?


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Locrian
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 16:33
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Jon that's just his textures. I happen to have a .psd/max files of his for the m9. Even after his psd had been merged to some effect theres layer that are like "layer 275" and such. Theres just so much more detail then any of us had been doing. Looking at say, your Desert Eagle texture next to the M9, is worlds of difference, and he said that wasn't a finished texture at the time of our little trade. I have to say theres no better education then looking at how a pro works.

Speaking of which, Errant, trying take a cue from you as you know with my layering on that 92, it seems at about 340-370 or so layers my comp starts running like heck. I realize I have an older 256 radeon card and 2 512 sticks as memory but is this normal? I realize having 350+ 1024 pix images open(which is basically what layers would be) has to be taxing but I've never had my comp do that before. I ended up using the merged image I was using to look at the textures in Max to start a new psd(so basically if I wanted to change stuff on the slide or frame I'd have to go back to psd-1 for the gun). Is this something you've ran into and if so whats your pipeline on working though this if it's different then what I've done in starting the psd-2.
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filya
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 18:09
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250-300 layers???? What do you guys do? Paint 20 pixels on each layer???

The maximum layers I have ever used for any texture would be around 7-8 at a max! I know I am not even a P, leave alone a PRO (bad joke, I know ), but what do you really do using so many layers?

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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masterchief 193
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 18:10
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Looks awsome Errant... what 3d modeling software did you use to make the models?

FPSC ROCKS!!
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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 18:26
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I have the same question

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Locrian
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 19:08 Edited at: 21st Nov 2006 19:20
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No it all has to do with blending modes and how you use the layers opasities. When I first seen Errants work I was surprised to see a small screw had like 25 layers(I used to use like 40 layers max on the whole texture). But after doing my texture on my new gun and seeing Errants work I fully understand the importance of taking your time and taking no shortcuts. The TGC stock weapons look like a joke to me now. There's a reason Errants guns look so great in the game.....there done like a pro would. If I could legally post a picture of Jon's Eagle texture, and my Beretta texture here I would. Theres such a world of differance. Jon's Eagle in game looks so muddy to me. No real definiton.

I also want to say I don't say these things to be mean to Jon. I know it's a ton of work to get out that many guns in the time he did. But the quality reflects in this lack of time spent, IMO.

Were talking the differance between the standard FPSC quality game and a game like HL2. If I had time to do this kind of texturing on every model in the game I would. You just have to learn what battles to fight, and being you always see the gun, and your hands, regaurdless of what room your in, this has to be spot on looking and can be even in FPSC I've learned.

PS: And I want to note my comp slowed at 350 or so layers. This is only the frame/slide/handle/rear sights completed(along with some fixes Errant pointed out when all you people out there were just handing me an "Atta Boy"). I imagine when alls said and done I'll have 500 or more layers on the gun alone. This dose not include the hands or any attachments to the slide rail that will be available.
Lot of work, but I thank Errant for taking his time and giving me a Pro's insight.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 19:16
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Quote: "If I could legally post a picture of Jon's Eagle texture"


yes, i know what you mean, that was quite embarrasing, simple side mapping, and too dirty, but i developed in time, please remember im still learning locrian, your comparing a novice against someone who has worked in the industry for years on many titles.


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Locrian
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 19:27
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Jon I was comparing your texture to mine as I knew I couldn't post Errant's. Since you chimed in, I'm not above sending you my psd's. I know without a shadow of a doubt you'd never steal my work. But my work now is shaping up much like Errants work. And I only have him to thank for that.......But I'm really far from pro myself.

And I still say we sacrifice some members, and thin out the herd around here...hehe.

Errant sorry for posting like this in your thread. I myself don't mind people going on a bit cause it keeps my threads at the top...you may not like it so I apologize.
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Errant AI
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 19:43 Edited at: 21st Nov 2006 19:48
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Yep, Jon. Just the painted map. Baking is sorta cheezy IMO.

Loc... It'll begin to dog when the layer count gets up there. That's normal. There used to be an actual 100 layer limit set by PS up until maybe PS7.

Be real careful with this actually... Ya know how the scratch disk file size blows up when you open a 20MB or so sized .PSD? Well, I actually created a file that once closed couldn't be reopened on the same machine because there wasn't enough RAM. I actually use several PSDs sometimes for different phases. For example, I have a seperate PSD for the M16 series that's for swapping handguards, iron sights and dirtmapping.

What I generally do is texture each part/mapping segment of the model with it's own group of layers (slide, barrel, magazine, frame, etc) and then make a merged copy of group (ctrl+alt+E) once I'm ready to move on and hide the regular layers so it isn't so taxing. It greatly speeds up performance. If I need to go back and tweak something, I just delete the merged layer and work inside the group.

My rig is showing its age but it was set up for this kind of thing. 2GB of fast (for its day) RAM and a small but high RPM disc for my C drive to cache on. 1000:1 contrast on my monitor. I use CCleaner several times per session too.

Filya... I use [self-edit] loads of layers mostly because I can .

Layers, layer groups and quickmask make my photoshop world go round. If everything's layered up nicely I can easily "tetris" the contents to make the most of my pixels or make adjustments to complex shadows or highlights by clicking layers on/off. Some PSDs turn out to be much more complex than others and I guess it really comes down to how much I want to leave a back door open for myself.... In the case of these guns, I want to leave that door wide open to facilitate color changes and multi-engine, multi-shader usability.

With metal objects, sometimes I just find that to build a really smooth highlight or shadow, it takes several layers with duplicate image content but different layer settings all piled on top of each other to get the effect that I want.

Wow, sorry for the longwindedness of this. I could actually go on-and on but I won't. The short answer is that I'm just an uptight pixel-pusher. In stark contrast, however, I collapse the stack in max after almost every modifier (shrug).

edit: omg three posts since I started this reply LOL. I must be sleepy.
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masterchief 193
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 21:14
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Keep up the good work. To me the modeling looks like its from blender, What software did you use?

FPSC ROCKS!!
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filya
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 21:15 Edited at: 21st Nov 2006 21:16
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loc & Errant, thanks for your replies.

I have read quite a few online PS tutorials, but I never found anything in them that would point towards so many layers. Most of them talk about using burn and dodge tools with a little bit about other effects.
Now I know why...they were probably aimed towards an amateur user/modeller.

If any of you have any .psd files which you think you can email me please do so. It could be any of your old/discarded projects or even some simple experimenting and stuff. Anything you think I could learn a bit from.
I really want to learn something about good texturing, and like you said yourself, learning from the pros is the best thing.

Thanks once again!

-filya

p.s: Errant, sorry for this request in your thread, but I guess this thread is where all of you are paying good attention now

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2006 23:44
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Errant, the one on the bottom of the second pic - is that an M4 or M16? I think its an M16 but I've been wrong about alot lately

By the way, don't forget to check your PMs and make a desision.

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Errant AI
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2006 07:29
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masterchief 193... Max 8 and PS CS2. Any polygonal modeling package should do though. Software (among other things) makes for good tax write-offs when you're in the industry. I really need to learn Maya and XSI when I have spare cash again.


filya... Dodging and burning is some of the worse things you can do to an image. Both will cause blow-outs to pure white and pure black that can never be recovered. Once those pixels are dead they're pretty much dead forever. I started out using PS professionally to clean up scanned images so I'm probably more anal than many when it comes to preserving image data.

That said, my methods aren't for everyone. Sometimes art is just art and one artists methods aren't necessarily well suited for another. Much like doing the dirty deed, everyones different... and that's a good thing. It's one of the reasons why I rarely assert my viewpoints on how I think things should or shouldn't be done. Myself, I just do what works best for me.

I find tutorials rarely have much to offer me and I dropped out of art school before I had any digital art courses. With the exception of my college roommate who wouldn't shut up about using the quick mask (something that I find incredibly useful but rarely, if ever mentioned or used), I'm self taught as far as methods go. I like to think of myself as an actual artist and not just someone who has learned to use tools if that makes sense.

I've also worked with a couple of very demanding art directors who had no qualms about rejecting textures. Using layers and lots of them helps to greatly curb the lag between revisions.

Judging from what I've seen, the layers-go-nuts method is working out really well for Loc but I think it's largely because he has a knack for adapting methods to his personality and knows that he needs to be his own harshest critic.

Anyways, I'm attaching a video showing a bit of what Loc and I have been talking about so that anyone who is interested can take a look. I'm not exactly proud of the UV mapping in this demo but its a fairly good look at how I build up things across several layers. It's about 6.5 minutes long and 8MB. 640x480 resolution.

If anyone finds this useful, then great. Just be sure to thank Filya and Loc because otherwise I probably couldn't be bothered to record and post this.


Airslide... M4. The only M16 in that pic is the A4 with reflex optic in the top row, the other three are M4s.

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filya
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2006 00:59
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saw the video errant. thanks so much for it.

wow, its like every move that you do in PS is on a different layer. lol, your layer list looks more like my history list

but yea, it makes sense to do it cause history list vanishes once you reopen the image, but the layers do stay

thanks again for it. And do remember please, if you have any scrap/unused .psd file, please do email it to me.

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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Airslide
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 06:12
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Quote: "Airslide... M4. The only M16 in that pic is the A4 with reflex optic in the top row, the other three are M4s."


An M4 can be stuffed with that much stuff ?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 10:34
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Sure... I suppose there's still enough room for a flashlight on the other side but you'd never see it
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 24th Nov 2006 10:53
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Very nice as usual man! I look forward to using these guns!

RF

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Airslide
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 07:48
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Sent you your custom installer EAI

By the way - how many M16s do you have compared to M4s, just outta curiosity?

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Errant AI
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 08:44 Edited at: 26th Nov 2006 08:48
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Rock on! I'm testing the basic files before I send them and will mess around with the alt-fire stuff tomorrow but will send the wip M9 and 635 beforehand.

Theres about as many M16s as M4s and will possibly be more before I am done considering I've recently modeled A1 and A2 uppers. Currently, there's about nine each of M16A4s and M4A1s. Haven't been showing much of the M16A4s though because I haven't gotten around to mapping the M5 handguards.

BTW, here's the IR module I was referring to.



info: AN/PEQ-2A
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Opposing force
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 13:46
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Wow. That's all I can say.

Sign up on this forum, please...
http://teammegabasic.proboards59.com
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bond1
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 18:51
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The attention to detail is amazing, very well done! Simply having these in a FPSC game makes it instantly more credible.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Airslide
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 20:06
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Ah, I see now, the IR would be nice to have on the one your sending

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filya
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Posted: 26th Nov 2006 20:45
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Errant, 3 months back (before I downloaded FPSC and knew about 3D modelling and stuff), I would have thought that was a photograph. Amazing details!!

-- game dev is fun...but taking up too much time --
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masterchief 193
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Posted: 27th Nov 2006 03:22
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Looks awsome cant wait to put it in my fpsc game

FPSC ROCKS!!
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