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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Portfolio Practice: Female Assassin

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:12 Edited at: 8th Nov 2006 22:03
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Hi guys!

i have just finished some more work for my 3d portfolio, my characters are starting to get pretty nice now, and i think soon i might be ready to go look for some "real" commercial work

I'll admit, before i go any further, i have to say, this is my FIRST EVER female model, and i think it came out great

although the face is half hidden, i think it gives more character, like a sexy assassin of some sort

here are some renders:



and a closeup:



i am particularly proud of the cloth with the gold trim on the outside and the overall design

i have still yet to model a quiver for the arrows, and probably re-do the bow and something to hold it (its really just a placeholder, one of the models that was going to be in CP2 or MP5)

some people may be wondering why i have been putting "RC DEMO 2006" on some of my latest renders, i am hopefully going to animate a demo reel sequence showcasing all my latest characters in fight scenes, or under heavy "tactical movement" (all the sword swinging and showing off)

also, i plan on getting these into FPSC with custom animations, just to get some "in game coverage" to show on my site

once again i apologize to dedicated FPSC users, where in some cases this can have nothing to do with FPSC, its just that you are the people who know my modeling history

Comments, Criticism, Suggestions and Queries welcome.

cheers!

-Jon

EDIT:

i am aware of the seam on the leg

and its likely to be a question soon, so i'll say it now, it consists of 1700 Polygons


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flashing snall
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:17
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nice job. She would look a lot cooler in some sort of pose though. Animation and fpsc would be awsome!


"these shoes are 300 hundred dollars"-Shoes by Kelly http://smallgroup.be/
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filya
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:30
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Dang Jon!! You just dont know what great modelling and texturing that is!! Or you wouldnt ask for criticism

Really, I wish you would stay in my city, then I would have bugged you into teaching me how you make such amazing textures.

btw, is that just one simple texture, or have you used bump, specular with it? And how do you do the bloom so well?

-- n00b at playing games...and now at making em too :p --
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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:39
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Very nice Jon, thought he skin is a bit to grainy.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:47
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Quote: "nice job. She would look a lot cooler in some sort of pose though. Animation and fpsc would be awsome!"


thats for the animation

just left it in a rigging pose for now

Quote: "btw, is that just one simple texture, or have you used bump, specular with it? And how do you do the bloom so well?"


for now, i just apply the diffuse texture as a bumpmap aswell, im still trying to get into normal mapping, so this is only really for a little more detail to the metal

Quote: "Very nice Jon, thought he skin is a bit to grainy.
"


thanks, could be the bumpmap, thanks for telling me though.


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Screwed Over
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:48
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jon, your models where pretty nice in the first place, but that model just wipes the battle field, i hope to see your work in EAs next big game


[b]UV Mapping tutorial[b]
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xplosys
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:51
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She can slay me anytime! Great work Jon. As good as your work has always been, I still see improvement.

Best.

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:52 Edited at: 8th Nov 2006 21:54
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thanks guys

Quote: "She can slay me anytime!"


lol


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:53
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It's pretty cool, I love your models. They have a really unique look and that makes them so cool. Looking forward to eventually seeing something derived from this model in FPSC and hopefully more of the same kind!

But one thing you should keep in mind with making threads showing your portfolio work (it doesn't count for this thread, since you're planning on making in FPSC ready). If others post unrelated FPSC posts in this forum they get told off and mods lock the topic. With your post that doesn't happen (like the Orc one) and in essence that isn't fair at all. We all should be treated in the same way.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 21:56 Edited at: 8th Nov 2006 21:59
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i know, which is why i apologize for doing so, but on the same subject, people always post there current works/w.i.p on this forum, some of which never integrated into FPSC, merely for the right traffic (starting to fade away for myself)

Quote: "And how do you do the bloom so well?"


video post Scene Filters


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xplosys
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 22:03
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Jon,

I sent you an e-mail which might be helpful.

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 22:10
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thanks xplosys, ive replied with the icons


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Luke314pi
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 22:18
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She looks awesome!

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 22:20
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thanks luke


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Cut scenes
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 23:11
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1700!WOW that is a good texture.

"People are easier to search when they're dead."--Captain Barbosa
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 23:14
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..thanks


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Doughboy
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 23:15
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Wow, that looks great.

Doughboy's FPSC Wishlist
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Nov 2006 23:23
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thanks Doughboy,

i think that perhaps this will be the last time i post my personal works on this forum, i will most likely leave it to only 1 thread on the 3D Chat board, most of the users whose opinions i want who also lurk here, tend to watch that area aswell.


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Locrian
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 01:25
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Nice Overall. Love the colors and her design.Well planed.

Only thing that drags your work down are those hands......For me it keeps it from getting an A+ man. The rest of your work is so good, I don't get why you don't buckle down and get those hand shapes and proportions worked out.
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butyouman
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 01:37 Edited at: 9th Nov 2006 01:38
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If she was real i would date her


Nice job

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5hunter6
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 01:44
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Very Nice Jon!! What program do you use to make your textures? They look so real.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 01:52
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@ locrian

strange, i worked against an image of a hand as reference, so it should be pretty much exact proportions, maybe the wrist is throwing off the perspective, but thanks for the comments.

@ 5hunter6

Adobe Photoshop


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Frostbyte
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 02:04
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the hands look proportional to me...
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 04:17
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Skins too grainy and the breasts seem a litte...unrealistic, but i might be crazy lol.


Death has no end
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 09:02
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It's a pity she's manga-fied because if you'd modeled her on a real women, she would to great in FPSC. The trouble is that there aren't really any more manga characters out there for FPSC.

I think the ankles are a little skiny so are the elbows. the grainy skin has already been mentioned but i think some of the cloth is a little strong too. I don't mean to be rude but look at her right breast in the close-up picture; the fabric texture is very defined and fairly high contrast. This makes it look like she's wearing a purple corded top. I can understand the logic behind the texture, but i think the threads need to be a bit more subtle.

I hope that doesn't get deleted because its too embarrassing to talk about a women anatomy for some of our young members.
AE

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 14:33
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and here i was thinking this was my best model yet

thanks for the crit, i think it fits nicely, but it is my first female model so maybe i went a bit over the top on the proportions, though i did use reference which looked rather correct.

maybe i should push out some of the verts a bit more, and get rid of any overlays on the skin so its solid colour, might push in the breasts a bit aswell.


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xplosys
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 16:10
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If I may add my 2 cents.....

The "grainy skin" as some call it lends realism to the model; flat, solid skin looks fake. Good modelers and animators know this and purposely add flaws for realism.

The breast are too big, the ankles and wrists are too small, this needs to be more pronounced and that needs to be more subtle; all personal preferences from those of us who wish we had your skill and aptitude.

It's an amazing model. No, I am not a modeler, but I know what looks good. The only thing I might add would be a belly button, but like I said.... that's definitely a personal preference. lol

Again, great work Jon.

Best.

The forum provides a means to hide our true identity. Too bad we always screw up and let it be seen.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 16:24 Edited at: 9th Nov 2006 16:25
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after looking at this over and over, and looking at some images of hands/wrists and my own (average, slightly skinny arms) i cant actually see much proportion errors, maybe i just see the female body much skinnier in my mind.

one thing, if it helps to say, is that most of the clothing/armour is very thin/light, not inches thick, the boots perhaps could go out a bit more, but im still convinced the wrist proportions seem correct, i modelled to this reference, but perhaps this image is wrong, who knows:



(courtesy of the-blueprints.com)

i can already see what improvements need to be made to the ankle, but the wrist looks fine to me.


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Locrian
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 16:50
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Posting that image you worked off was perfect Jon. Heres what I mean. Look at the hand from your referance image slightly opaqued over your model.

See how the fleshy part of the hands longer. the thumb looks longer and starts donw this flesh place more then yours. Also look at the thickness of your hand and the lenght of the fingers. All this adds to my view of thinking these look like the hands from Elliot in Scary Movie. I sorry but anytime I see your hands all I can think of is " NOoooOO..take the lil one...it's stronger...."


Other then your hands I love the model. Just those hands look like those from a thalidomide baby.
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Opposing force
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 17:02
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Looks good.

Sign up on this forum, please...
http://teammegabasic.proboards59.com
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 17:37
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thanks locrian, i'll get started on that fix aswell


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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 18:17 Edited at: 9th Nov 2006 18:28
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ok, some corrections:



locrian, tell me whether the hand looks right to you, i may need to just tweak the UV's because of the stretching, but it seems to have more volume.

edit:

also scaled a bit more around the ankles:




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Locrian
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 18:28
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OK in my above image I attepted to reposition things so they were a little more reasistic. You'll notice the red line I put in almost lining up the end of the thumb with the first knuckle in in the index finger. Now look at your own hand.....see what I'm getting at.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 18:55
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ah yes, a bit too long, i sometimes forget about those anatomical facts.

fixing.


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AaronG
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 19:33
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dude, you need to get your butt out of that chair, go to the phone, and call Ubisoft. Lol. Forget these forums...you're just...too good. people out there are looking to hire people like you.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 9th Nov 2006 20:09
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thanks, i'll be on the hunt for some work soon, once i get normal maps sorted. it seems in the future there wont be much work that doesnt involve it, except stuff like PSP and 'low-res' handhelds, but even they would require damn good texturing skills for sizes like 64's and 128's




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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 00:44
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i know its not fairly FPSC related and its not very far down, so it is really a stupid thing of me to do so, but...bump

i just want a couple more opinions, there are still a few members whose comments could greatly help.

tommorow, i am heading to london with my college class to the "Game-On" computer game history exhibition, apparently there may be some companies attending, some representitives, maybe i can find some "useful" sources there.

here is the website:

http://www.gameonweb.co.uk/

anyone heard of it? obviously its nothing huge like E3, and its more to do with the history of gaming, but it sounds pretty cool


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bond1
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 01:53 Edited at: 10th Nov 2006 02:37
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Hey Jon this looks really nice! I really don't have much criticism on this, it looks like you had a clear idea of what you wanted to make and you did it.

Well maybe a few small suggestions: You mentioned normal maps being a necessity...this is pretty much true I think. That being said, if this is ultimately going to be in a portfolio for employers to look at, I would suggest going much higher poly than 1700. Next-gen consoles have characters with poly counts in the 20,000's, no kidding! Even current-gen characters like Leon in Resident Evil 4 for Gamecube has 10,000 polys. Half-Life 2 characters have anywhere between 3000-8000 polys, and that game is 2 years old now. I would think that employers would expect to see detailed facial features like nostrils and eyelids modelled, rather than simply textured. My new characters I'm working on for FPSC are around 3000-3500 polys, enough for detailed facial features.

And having that extra detail I'm finding actually makes texturing easier, as an ambient occlusion map can fill in the shading details for you. I'd still keep the 1700 version as a lower LOD version, but if you're looking to get into the big time I think you'll want to go for a much higher poly count. That's all.

EDIT: Also, unless you plan on making a KILLER animation sequence, I'd forget about doing that altogether. Most companies have dedicated animators,modelers, and texture artists now. I'd concentrate on showing that ONE awesome character rather than having a so-so animation sequence of several characters.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Errant AI
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 02:06
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Looks pretty good. I don't think the graininess in the skin's color map was the issue so much as in the bump/normal map. I'd concider keeping the skin variations but smoothing it out. Especially along the breast and abdomen unless you want her to look leathery. You should definately address the UV mapping there and the last thing you want is errors where the eye is destined to be drawn.

I remember seeing the start of this in another thread and she had sort of an ugly orc-human hybrid look to her (as opposed to a comely elven-look). You can still tell she's a little rough on the eyes from her nose-lines and brow details.

...Kind of an out-there suggestion but I think it would be cool to have a "reveal" shot without the mask and make her plain hideous with fangs or missing flesh or something (Think soulreaver). It would give her a great "siren" quality and demonstrate that you're not trying to conceal poor modeling by using a mask.

Have fun at the event you're going to. E3 is/was almost useless as a true networking event anyways so you may be better off.
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 21:44 Edited at: 10th Nov 2006 21:46
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thanks guys,

just got back from London, it was in the natural history museum, it wasn't too bad actually, got to test some really old consoles and read up some cool facts, as well as view some of the original concept art from the game "Jak & Dexter"

i may redo the face, though im used to more of a male shape, this being my first female model, there are some things i need to study.

about the polycount, yes i suppose it could do with more. but its always good to see what you can make out of a small polycount.

plus, triangulated, the model is probably around 4000

i still want to do an animation though, not just for show, but to give life to the models, the thing is, when i show friends or family, the usual "computer illiterate" reply is "hey, that image looks good"

they merely think its just some sort of drawing, not a 3d object that has come to life, plus its all good practice anyway, cant just throw aside animation when ALOT of Max's features are dedicated to it.


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bond1
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 23:32
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Quote: "plus, triangulated, the model is probably around 4000 "


Yeah when I said polys I meant tris. It's about 4000 tris? Ok then that's a different story. I figured it was 1700 tris, since I only counted 6 subdivisions around the arm.

I know exactly what you mean, none of my family quite understands what it means to make a 3d model, they think its just a picture.

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"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 10th Nov 2006 23:52
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Quote: "I know exactly what you mean, none of my family quite understands what it means to make a 3d model, they think its just a picture."


yep, this industry is way too ironic, the only people who care are strangers scattered across the world

ive started work on the quiver, i'll post some progress soon


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filya
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Quote: ""I know exactly what you mean, none of my family quite understands what it means to make a 3d model, they think its just a picture.""


guess we are all in the same boat here.

I spend like a week working on a model and then more time UVmapping and texturing it...and all I get from my friends is "doesnt that look too cartoonish"

-- n00b at playing games...and now at making em too :p --
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Errant AI
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 00:57
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Quote: "they think its just a picture"


Don't be suprised if you encounter a similar notion when interviewing. Only difference is that they'll say, "Nice render".

A nice render may get you through HR sometimes but when HR passes your portfolio on to an art team for review it can be a different story. Being able to show off an understanding of deformation and game-art procedure carry more weight than render skill when it it comes to character modeling.

Always be sure to include wireframes, UV maps and map sizing info, animation samples (if applicable) and real-time captures if possible. Those sorts of things go a long way if you don't have shipped games or a couple years of industry experience on your resume. They can also help you from being "low-balled" when it comes to negotiation of salary for entry level art positions.

On a side note, I just want to say that I was impressed/relieved when I bought Bond1's TGC pack because the characters deform much better than model pack #1 or the stock models that come with FPSC. Unfortunately, I had to buy the model pack to find that out and whould have bought his pack much sooner had that aspect been highlighted in the promotional material.
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Cut scenes
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 01:38 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 01:39
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Very nice update. Hope you find work.

"People are easier to search when they're dead."--Captain Barbosa
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bond1
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 04:01 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 04:02
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Quote: "On a side note, I just want to say that I was impressed/relieved when I bought Bond1's TGC pack because the characters deform much better than model pack #1 or the stock models that come with FPSC. Unfortunately, I had to buy the model pack to find that out and whould have bought his pack much sooner had that aspect been highlighted in the promotional material. "


Thank you ErrantAI for noticing! I spent A LOT of time on that, didn't use envelopes at all, instead I manually weighted each vert for the best deformation that those models would allow.

I'm proud of those models, but on the other hand I've come quite a long way since finishing those, some of them make me cringe now...

Sorry for getting off topic.

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"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
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fourmsterr
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 04:43 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 04:54
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Quote: "i have just finished some more work for my 3d portfolio"


sorry for getting off topic..


what is a 3d portfolio????????
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Smitho
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 11:50
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If you got to a job interview, for example a 3D Kitchen Designer, you show the person you are meeting everything you can do/have done. You show them your best work so they can understand your skills. The collection of work is a portfolio.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 17:03 Edited at: 11th Nov 2006 17:03
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or just call it a portfolio if you want, but i just mainly said that for the "CGI field of work"


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Locrian
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Posted: 11th Nov 2006 17:33
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Yeah by the time your in your last year your going to be smokin Jon. I wish I'd of grown up more in the age of the internet and computers. I enjoy this as a hobby but it would have been great to go the route your taking as a young man, and know what your interested in and get the proper training for it, before ya got to old to switch up careers like myself. I really envy you man, and best of luck.

PS: So wheres the screen shots of those reworked hands now that you've seen the atomical differences.
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