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Hi all

I've been thinking alot recently about a recent thread started in this forum asking whether any "famous" games had been created with FPSC. In that thread there was alot of discussion as to whether FPSC was even capable of creating a commercial quality game (whatever that is), etc, etc. Anyway, the discussion really got me thinking about why we make games with FPSC and who, ultimately, plays them. For me, creating games only a tiny handful of people play doesn't hold alot of appeal - don't get me wrong, I don't expect or believe anything I create to be a great commercial (or even minor) hit and I really love getting feedback on projects from the FPSC community but I do believe there has to be a way that we FPSC creators can in some way monetise our games, and by proxy the huge amount of time we spend making them. The question I am posing, and hoping to generate discussion around, is how?

I think the first thing that needs to be addressed is the issue of "commercial quality". First, I do believe it is possible to create games in FPSC that are of a commercial quality - and what I mean by that are games that some people would be willing to pay money for. But I think it is important that we moderate what we mean when we use the phrase commercial quality. Let me be clear, when I say I think people can make games people will pay for, I am NOT saying that FPSC is capable of creating games that can compete with Doom 3, Far Cry, Halo, or any other popular FPS game. But there again, why do they need to? Sure, you can't make a GTA style open world game, but the limitations of FPSC, in my honest opinion, should be seen as an advantage - work within the limits and think of ways to exploit what the game engine can actually do. Without naming names, there are users in this forum with an unreal amount of ability who consistently create incredible projects with what is, in reality, a somewhat limited engine. Through sheer force of will and imagination some incredible projects have been produced - no, they couldn't compete against Halo, but they can stand next to many indie games, holding their heads up high.

When thinking about FPSC games I keep going back to Nintendo's Blue Ocean strategy - to summarize for those of you who aren't familiar with it: The blue ocean strategy assumes there are two types of market - a red ocean and a blue ocean. The red ocean is the market space in which all the major game manufacturers are currently working, the water of that market turned red from the spilled blood as they companies fight it out. The Blue Ocean, however, is the potentially infinite market space that has yet to be tapped. So when Nintendo developed the Wii and DS they famously ignored the high poly battle going on (that being a red ocean) and instead focused on potential gamers that were being ignored. Now, I am not saying so-called casual game development is the way to go with FPSC games, but I am saying that competing, or trying to compete, with Half Life 2 is a deadend.

What would I suggest as an alternative? Well, reflecting on the Wii again it occurs to me that FPSC could, in theory, do a hell of a job creating on-the-rails shooters that are starting to become the hardcore alternative on Wii - think House of the Dead: Overkill, Dead Space, or the various Sega ports (Ghost Squad, HotD 2 & 3, etc, etc). First, how many high profile on-the-rails shooters come out on PC? I am sure there are some (so please don't flame) but by creating a game in this genre you are not putting yourself in direct competition with the big guns (hehe @ my own pun). Now I am definitely NOT saying FPSC is only good for on the rails games, this is just the first example of an area on the PC that I think has been under exploited. I don't believe any on the rails shooter on PC will sell 100,000 copies but I believe a carefully marketed product at the right price could sell a few copies - maybe even enough to justify a one person, or small team operation. The operative word here is niche - identify one that is somewhat ignored and develop a product to fill that specific market gap.

The next challenge (after a niche has been identifed and a suitable game developed) would be finding the perfect price for your final product and, most importantly, getting people to buy it. Like I said I do not believe any FPSC game can compete directly with the big hitters, and so pricing should reflect that - $30 for an FPSC game is no good (I'm sure you all agree with me here), but conversely I think $3 is too low. I know setting a lower threshold may sound odd but I think (and this is just my opinion) consumers don't take games seriously that are too cheap. The point I am making is that when you create a game you are thinking about selling you shouldn’t' under (or over) value your work - you are not (I hope) creating a cheap Doom rip off, but offering a credible alternative, niche, experience that no one else is. For our theoretical on-the-rails shooter I would suggest $10 as the perfect price. It fits nicely into the budget/impulse buy whilst offering the potential for good profit margins, particularly for tiny dev teams. I also think $10 is a good price as it creates the right level of gamer expectation. What I mean by that is that a new game costing $10 does not set itself up against a $30-40 AAA title - it accepts, and even celebrates its place in the videogame pecking order. It suggests to me a game that offers a specific and potentially fun experience that is not trying to oversell itself. When I think about game pricing the thing that bugs me the most is that the avergae game I buy for my Xbox 360 always costs the same when its released regardless of its quality, or even its scope. The fact that hunting games can sit next to GTA IV, one of my most oft-played games, in terms of pricing seems to baffle me. One game offers potentially unlimited playability, whilst the other offers sub-standard graphics and game play. I'm not saying these hunting games are not fun (indeed, there is a game that has identified a lucrative niche!!) but I am saying that their pricing, compared to other games on the market, is out of proportion.

Ok, so having identified a niched, developed a game, set upon a realistic price, the most difficult part of this whole, theoretical process, is getting the game into the hands of people willing to pay for it. The obvious distribution model is direct download – after all, it's what the industry is salivating over. But I don't think it is necessarily the way to go. First, one of the main points made about online distribution is that the internet has unlimited shelf space meaning that a product is always available, but I believe that unless you have some form of brand awareness this could equally work as a negative quality - infinite shelf space also means an infinite space in which your game can simply become lost. Don't get me wrong, I think online distribution could be utilized but I don't think it is the be-all-and-end-all. I think the dream for many budding/amateur developers is to get a game on shop shelves – after all, there is a reason the retail sector is so important to the industry.

A game shop is a place that draws people wanting to buy videogames - the people in that shop are a captive audience (as opposed to internet users who might find something more interesting, perhaps even an alternative product, with just one click of a mouse button. The reason retail (i.e. brick and mortar shops) are so important is that they are the principle place people go to buy games, even in the world of the internet. It seems to me that getting some kind of retail presence is key to having a niche hit, but what do I mean about a retail presence?

First, I am in no way suggesting your games will end up on your local chain store shelves. But I do believe there is an opportunity for far sighted independent shops to consider stocking your product. I am not saying getting them to take your product will be easy but the people who own indie game shops are videogame enthusiasts in the purest sense of the word and if you are diligent and can write a good cover letter, or know someone who can, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that some shops will carry your game - even if its on a no-sale-return policy. After all, what have they got to lose? There are other advantages to this - if you can enthuse an indie shop owner then they are more likely to not only stock the game but to accept promotional material, maybe an A3 poster or stack of postcards explaining your niche title. In this way you would be able to advertise directly where people can buy the game - this is likely to be much more effective (and cheaper) than advertising in a magazine or in the specialist press. I'm not saying you're going to set the world on fire, or even your bank balance, but if three shops sell through their initial quota of five copies each and then reorder...well, that is something. Hopefully, it would also be the start of something bigger - an initial show of potential you can build upon and promote when going trying to get your game in other indie stores. Sure, fifteen copies is nothing, but three shops selling out is...a good sign.

Nor does this experiment need to cost anything substantial as there are sites/services that will duplicate your game on DVD, with a cover and case, etc, on demand for less than $2 each. Add some postcards for promotion and a website and you could be talking about getting out there for less than $100. There is also plenty of collaborative potential in this forum - if one indie shop takes your game then they might consider taking another from another user. If people were willing to share their experiences/lessons learned, then maybe users here could help one another getting their titles out there.

Obviously, everything I've written is entirely speculative - it's easy for me to write and imagine all this (particularly as I've been waiting over 2 hours for a test level to build - hence the length and ranty nature of this post!) so I suggest maybe putting some of my ideas to the test. I am currently working on a game that, whilst hardly amazing, I think could be niche enough to appeal to a certain group of gamers and I've been thinking about how I can distribute it. Since I am no good at scripting or modelling (doesn't bode well for my game, does it!!) I tend to have little to offer the community. This bothers me as this community has given me so much in terms of models and scripts, etc, so I would be happy to share my experiences with this little "experiment". Don't get me wrong, I expect nothing in terms of success but even if my inevitable failure helps others see what not-to-do then maybe it won't be a waste of time!

Finally (and apologies for the length of this post - like I said, test level is STILL building), I'd like to leave you with this link:http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24073. This is an article I found on Gamasutra about an indie developer who is releasing a new game for the Dreamcast. It seems to me that if someone can get a Dreamcast game out there then there is no reason, whatsoever, that one of us can't get our own titles out there in a similar fashion.

It has not been my intention in this post to suggest that my opinions are in any way credible or likely to bear fruit - or to suggest that other FPSC users haven't already had success with their games. I am only suggesting that maybe by working together and sharing our experiences in ideas we can stop talking about being developers and actually take a shot at it. Who's with me?

Take care all

Have you thought about a career in writing? JK

I think you're right on about FPSC. A talented person or small team could create a viable game somewhere below the big names that would sell. I won't try to guess any numbers, but what you said sound as good as any. It has been done but again, I don't know what kind of profit if any was realized.

As for selling, I can only speak for my area as I don't know about mom and pop game shops in other areas of the world or even in the US. Around here there are none, and there are very few franchise game stores left. There were more a few years ago, but I think the internet, as well as other economic issues, caused them to close. They have gone the way of video rental stores. Around here at least, game sales would be limited to the internet.

The difference between retail stores and the internet is that you have to physically go to the store. The amount of time and work you have to put into selling your game remains the same. Yes, the internet is available to the world 24/7. It's like a huge mall with 797 million game stores in it, and every one of them trying to get the lease by the front door. If shoppers don't know your name before they walk in, the chance of them finding you is slimmer than slim.

To me, the way to go is to create the game and get a publisher interested.

Brian.

This software certainly has the potential. But it has huge limitations. Sure you can get around these limitations but it's bloody hard work.

I reckon in about ten years time this program will ave progressed enough to be able to make a commercial quality game. Hell, if they fixed X10, raised the FPS cap of it, fixed the lighting they'd have a program capable of it.

I have thought about this for some time as well. My basic idea was for any participants of the various FPSCreator contests each year make a compilation disk of their games to sell. Sort of a "best of 2009" approach. Split any proceeds evenly.

The contest participants are regularly finishing small games of decent quality. The disk would be a grab bag of the each years completed works.

I can remember back in the Duke Nukem days where lots of homebrew mod game compilations were available. I bought several. Some were playable, some not. It was still enjoyable to browse the games and see what interesting variations people could come up with. I think $9.99 was the usual price then.

I know, that post was longer than the average 1st/2nd year undergraduate essay!!


I don't agree with this statement because I don't think FPSC will ever live up to contemporary expectations about what "commercial quality" actually is - after all, it's a point and click game creator so I imagine the limitations in the software will never be removed. But consider all of the old retro/budget software titles that are on sale now. Take Virtua Fighter which I could go and pick up for about £1 from various shops with ease. If this game were created here and now by a TGC forum member, looking as the game looks now, everyone would say the game was not of a commercial quality - and yet the super cheap PC edition sells. Obviously a game like Virtua Fighter is a special case, it has massive brand awareness and retro chique, etc, etc, but my point is that games which are commercially viable do not necessarily fall into the narrow band of "commercial quality" that is bandied about here. I believe any fan of VF on the PC will tell you it's the gameplay the matters - a very wise statement. My point is that consumers will buy software that falls outside of what we call "commercial quality" if their expectations are managed accordingly. My guess is that many of those who buy Virtua Fighter do so knowing it is a very old game, but with the expectation of a good, value for money experience. Why can't an FPSC game appeal to a similar group?


This. Yes, it does have limitations and it does take alot of work to get around them. But they can be navigated around and a quality game can be produced.


Something similar popped into my head - it's a great idea, but I believe no direct association with FPSC should or needs to be made. What I would suggest is developing a community brand, as it were, that helps to pass onto potential buyers that this is a quality package of more limited games. I was thinking "Classic Gaming" or something like that. It has a kind of "retro game" feel about it that suggests to the buyer these games are more like purchasing older PC games - good gameplay, maybe not "commercial quality" graphics.

That post was of "Locrian" proportions.

You could do a "Indie Games: Best of 2009" and put in a bunch of the nicer Dark Basic games too. That way, it doesn't seem like it's just a compilation of games from the same engine.

Also, the HUD's should definitely be different. If it's all default, it might seem less professional.

Haha, yeah I know it's waaay too long.


It's definately an idea but I don't really know anything about the games being produced with DB and my suspicion is that DB games are much liklier to see the light of day as some form of commercial release. You do get compliation discs that just focus on genres though, such as "Adventure" or "Arcade" discs - but I do take your point. I'm still not necessarliy convinced that compilation discs are the way to go, but I admit it is definately an interesting idea.

I could make a website expecially for Indie Game Developers using FPSC to sell their games. I can also host the website as well. Obviously there will be a small fee each month but hey, it would be cool. People could post around different places like Bebo, MySpace and Facebook to advertise within reason. I can highly reccommend people buying Phoenix Sentry so that the installations/games have protection i.e. a serial key. I would also reccommend refraining from having the game as a download, unless of course you can ensure that there is now way they can use the game without a license key i.e. using Phoenix Sentry Professional edition...if i am correct.

Just let me know, i am sure this could be something which could become a really good community project. I will have to put fees in place i.e. a small monthly payment from each person that is selling a game/compilation of games. Either PM me if interested or email me.

All the best

Brett

Hi Bkinsman

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The website offer is very kind but I've already got a site up at the moment I can adapt for my first game. But if I do need additional ones you will be the first person I contact!



I need to look into the Pheonix system - sounds very cool. As to digital distriribution I think I ahve a different opinion as to yourself. Personally, I think that if people are going to pirate the software, they're going to pirate it - no matter what steps are taken to prevent it. IMHO most DRM systems and even serial numbers serve only to annoy legitimate customers whilst those who pirate tend to have the benefit of having those security measures circumvented - this may not be true, but it is my opinion, based upon reports I've encountered and my own personal experiences.

That said I am currently investigating a cool digital distribution service (that includes DRM) at the moment which I think might be a great way to go. At the moment it's pretty hard to take this project forward without a product to sell, so to that end I am *considering* turning my entry for the Fight for Independence contest into a full game. Now, I am not making any claims that my game is better than, or even as good as, the average FPSC game posted in these forums. But it is a niche title, focusing as it does on the American Frontier with a deliberate slant towards the history of the period, so I think it's as good a candidate as any. Here is the WIP thread here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=153487&b=25

And here is a screenshot:


In short the game is something of an RPG with the main aim being for the player to become a successful pioneer by purchasing property, etc, etc - a little bit like Fable II. At the moment the game is only a one level project but *if* I do expand it the idea would be to include a total of 3-5 levels, each representing an open-world type of environment - each level would then act like a campaign in a strategy game. That's my vague plan at the moment. For more on the game head over to the WIP. Hopefully I can tell you a bit more about the digital distribution in the near future also.

Just a quick update for those of you following this - I have just been accepted for the online distribution store I mentioned which is a really positive step forward. Also the one level version of my game, which is being entered into the Fight for Independence contest, has just been awarded a Best of the Best award which is a promising sign. My next step is to add at least another two open world campaigns - once I've done that I'll take stock of the game length and take it from there.

Congrats chidem!

That's great progress and benchmarks you've achieved. Best of luck as you move forward.

Brian.

Thanks Brian - Sorry I didn't reply sooner - just saw your reply.

What I'm thinking about, now I've got a digital distrubtion thing in place is try episodic content - I.e Pioneering Episode 1, etc, etc. This would allow me to release at a very low cost each individual campaign. The reason I'm thinking about this is it would allow me to guage (commercial) interest and potential in this idea without spend looots of time creating a full release only to find noone is interested! It would also allow me to guage feedback from players and improve subsequent episodes. I've taken on board all of the advice and feedback given to me, positive and negative, and intend to implement what I can in order to make give the game its necessary polish. For instance, most of the bugs will be sorted, such as wild hogs not fading away and rewarding money for a long time after a prolonged session and various other bits and bobs. I also agree that more direction/story should be given, etc along with a better sound track. Once I polish the existing game this, I hope, will give the first campaign the necessary polish. I would be looking at a retail price of just a couple of dollars per episode. I am looking ahead with a view to releasing the full game once all the episodes have been released.


Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? Or, for that matter, or marketing or getting word out? Feedback welcome

chidem,

I have always thought the episodic release was a good idea. Of course, the success or failure of the idea rests in large part with the first episode. The rest is all eye candy and advertising. Whether free or for a small fee, the first episode will determine who comes back for more. The wider the appeal and better the episode, the more success in return sales. Common knowledge, I know.

My way....

I would get at least a few episodes together, so as to have a somewhat complete game before releasing the first. I think I would give away the first episode to get as many into the game as possible. If people are left wanting more, there should be no problem getting a small fee or subscription for the next episode and so on.

I think your game is unique and would cater more to the historical/educational side rather than the shooter side, so I wouldn't know where to begin to promote it. I'm sure you would though.

Brian.

I was thinking about releasing a demo of ep1 that had the larger area locked to the player, just showing off enough of the game to get those who might be interested in the larger concept, as it were. As for getting more episodes together prior to launch I am heavily working on the second one already - the issue is that it takes a looong time to optimize large outdoor levels which is why the episodic thing appeals...



That's the $60,000 question - appropriate promotion. There are a number of websites/blogs that cater to more esoteric or unusual game ideas, particuarly if the games appeal to non-typical gamers. I agree it isn't a shooter - but it was never intended to be - I think of it as a first person RPG. There are the usual press release outlets but I think I would need to target sites for non-typical gamers (drawing a distinction from "casual" - it's such a loaded term now). The RPG element could be a good way to promote...possibly

You've been typing alot too!



"All walks of life"...George Hanson...Easy Riders


Commercial Quality = Games people are willing to pay for.
Excellent, I agree.
It's all about the "bling" once you say "commercial", because most commercial enterprises exist to make a profit.
I more important consideration here is....Who makes the purchase decision?
That question brings us to your next point.


Something to consider other than graphics is the age groups demanding them.
The red ocean is filled with battleships with seasoned veterans manning the helm.
Whereas, the blue ocean is full of day sailors out for their first run.
In other words, the red ocean is an adult market and the blue ocean is for little kids.
This is where Nintendo went... marketing low res graphics to small children who just want to have fun.
Instead of having to build new ships to accommodate the latest guns (graphics, etc.) where the fun is lost in the battle.
They understand that millions of dollars are being spent by adults who let the 3 year old in the cart pick their toy as they point to the cutest box cover.
It's all about cartoon style if you want to tap that market, so it is perfect for indie developers stating out with limited graphical skills. (me)


Right.
As I said before, if you are sailing in the blue ocean in the graphics are expected to be more cartoony than real.
So, if you are aiming for the little kids then getting them to buy it is all about cover design and not game play.
The game play is necessary for residual income if you want repeat customers, so keep it like a movie so it can easily have a sequel. (you want to build on the exposure)
Cute fuzzy teddy bears (or apes named after donkeys?) are all you need to sell it to a 3 to 6 year old.
Their whining does the rest of your job on the parent, so let them take it from there.



Agreed
$10 is a good spot on the price-taking pecking order, and it fits as a perfect bargain so the kid gets a nod of approval on the first try.
You made a sale, mom got a deal, and Jr. got his game with the funny little mule-monkey, so everyone is happy.

Once again, I agree here.
I think people underestimate the power of the pawn shop.
Not everyone going there is hard up for cash.
A lot of bargain hunters frequent pawn shops as a source for discounts.
You would have to wholesale the discs or maybe even work out a percentage deal so it is more like a consignment.
If the right deal was made, then 20 or so copies could be mailed to any pawn shop in the country. (design the box to double as a display stand when opened maybe)
As a consignment, it would be at no cost to them upfront and they are not buying anything up front which may or may not sell.
In other words, it’s less risk then their usual buy-resell procedure, because they do not pay in advance for things that may not sell.
I have not tried this yet, but I'm sure it could get your games right along side of the AAA titles in the $10 price range if you just want exposure.



If you are doing small quantities then I would suggest making them yourself.
You can buy the cases in bulk for like 25 cents each, and the discs too.
Your printer can print the covers with little cost in paper and ink, and a manual paper trimmer is not expensive.
You can probably produce them yourself for less than $1 each if you buy in bulk (500 to 1000) when you get the cases.



I usually test each added function in a separate test room, emulating the needed assets for the test.
That way you are not loading the whole game, just the parts you are testing.
This speeds up the process a lot because I can test 5 or more times in the same time it would have taken to load the whole game once.
After I get the functionality working, then I go back and add it to the game for a full game test.
That way, you only have the large test build once for each addition.


Yeah, yeah, I'm in, but I still need to finish my dead game first before I can put my distribution theories to the test.
Until then, I am in for sharing tips and ideas, so I will keep an eye out on your thread here.

Congrats on your BOTB trophy.



Excellent idea, and I had similar thoughts in the past.
I think an annual fee for online membership access would be the way to handle a series.
You would want those in downloads instead of hard copy since they would be so frequent.
That would save you money and add convenience for the users.
Annual billing would save you and them a lot of hassle when compared to monthly billing.
Viral marketing would be the way to go with this having a focus on building a large member base over time, rather than seeing big profits right away.




Viral marketing!
I told my friends, so it is working already.
You can pay me my $60,000 now. Thanks!

Just to throw my opinion in, does the UNREAL ENGINE make commercial quality games?

let's see.

ANIMATION:

The Unreal Animation system features:

Skeletal animation system supporting up to 4 bone influences per vertex and very complex skeletons.
Full mesh and bone LOD support.
AnimSet Viewer tool for browsing and organizing animations and meshes:
Ability to add game-specific notifications at specific points in the animation.
Tool for graphically placing ‘Sockets’ on bones to be used for attaching objects to the skeleton in the game, complete with preview.
Ability to preview ‘overlay’ meshes based on the same skeleton (e.g. armor).
Animation is driven by an “AnimTree” - a tree of animation nodes including:
Blend controllers, performing an n-way blend between nested animation objects.
Data-driven controllers, encapsulating motion capture or hand animation data.
Physics controllers, tying into the rigid body dynamics engine for ragdoll player and NPC animation and physical response to impulses.
Procedural skeletal controllers, for game features such as having an NPC's head and eyes track a player walking through the level.
Inverse Kinematics solver for calculating limb pose based on a goal location (e.g. for foot placement).
AnimTree Editor allows programmers or animators to create complex blends and controller setups and preview them in realtime in the editor.
New node and controller types can be easily added for game specific control.
Export tools for 3D Studio Max, Maya and XSI for bringing weighted meshes, skeletons, and animation sequences into the engine.

FPSC ANIMATION:

you can animate your characters any way you want as long as you follow the strict set of animations. you have more frames for more animations. must be done in another program. (so really no animation options within the engine)



SOUNDS

The Unreal Engine audio system features:

Support for the latest major audio compression scheme for all platforms.
Transparent to the user.
SIMD optimized compression and decompression of improved quality Ogg Vorbis on the PC.
3D sound positioning, spatialization and attenuation.
Cross-platform DSP effects.
I3DL2 reverb on all platforms.
Per source low pass filter for attenuation or other effects.
EQ effects.
Multi-channel playback (4.0, 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1).
Batch control of pitch and volume using sound groups.
Seamless looping of sounds on all platforms.
Extensive debugging tools monitor resource usage.
Visual Sound Tool in UnrealEd:
gives sound designers complete control over sounds, sound levels, sequencing, looping, filtering, modulation, pitch shift, and randomization.
Sounds parameters are separated from code to an extent that sound designers can control all sounds associated with gameplay, cinematics and animation sequences.


FPSC sounds feature: full script control of all sounds.
must be .wav
music, shooting, voices, anything done simply by using a sound zone.



PHYSICS




Powered by NVIDIA PhysX.
Rigid body physics system supporting player interaction with physical game objects, ragdoll character animation, complex vehicles, and dismemberable objects.
Cloth simulation.
Soft body simulation.
'Physical Material' system that allows per-object or per-surface properties such as friction, sounds and effects.
Physics-driven sound.
Fully integrated support for physics-based vehicles, including player control, AI, and networking.
Gameplay-driven physical animation – capable of driving physics based on animation, and blending the results in many ways.
Unreal PhAT, the visual physics modeling tool built into UnrealEd that supports creation of optimized collision primitives for models and skeletal animated meshes; constraint editing; and interactive physics simulation and tweaking in-editor.
Fracture tool in UnrealEd allows you to take a mesh and break it into pieces.


FPSC Physics: full physics system including player interaction with objects, ability to have multiple rigid bodies with physics applied to them at once. no animation blending or ragdoll. cube, cylindar, and polygonal collision options. no cloth or water.



PARTICLES:


UnrealCascade, the visual particle effects system, features:

Simple tool used by artists and level designers to to create visual effects for games and cinematics.
Preview any visual effect in real time in the exactly as it is seen in the game itself – make dynamic tweaks to an effect such as an explosion or a burning fire without any turnaround time.
Interacts with many different systems to create an intuitive, efficient, and integrated environment for true creative freedom.
Built around the concept of modules, and adding a new feature is a simple as adding a new module which drops right in and integrates seamlessly with the rest of the already existing functionality.

FPSC particles: no particles, they are replaced with decals.



MAP EDITOR:


The Unreal Editor (UnrealEd) is a pure “What You See Is What You Get” content creation tool filling the void between asset creation tools like 3ds Max, Maya and XSI, and shippable game content. The editor itself is actually a suite of various tools for realizing your content in the Unreal Engine. Features include:

State-of-the-art visual level designer for placement and editing of gameplay objects such as players, NPCs, inventory items, AI path nodes and light sources.
Fully interactive real-time rendering of levels while editing, including dynamic lighting and shadows. All level content in the editor is presented consistently with the game engine itself!
Built on a data-driven property editing framework, allowing level designers to easily customize any game object, and programmers to expose new customizable properties to designers via script.
Load and edit huge environments composed of many seamlessly streaming sub-levels.
In-editor “Play Here” button puts gameplay just one mouse click away. You can test gameplay in one editor window while modifying objects and rearranging geometry in another.
Brush-based architectural design system for rapid level prototyping and shelling.
Takes full advantage of multiple processor cores for accelerating workflow, such as generation of static light and shadow interaction.
Includes a suite of content editing tools


FPSC map editor:
visual level designer to "on the fly" place entitys, NPCs, and interaction objects that will affext gameplay. literally, the designer can PAINT his levels together using intelligent linking "SEGMENTS" to make level geometry the player can place lights, but not dynamically. the FPSC level designer is not WYSIWYG. it is aimed at making smaller, indoor levels using a small grid system.



ONLINE GAMEPLAY:


Internet and LAN play has been a hallmark of action games as demonstrated in Epic's Unreal Tournament series. The Unreal Engine has long provided a flexible and high-level network architecture suitable to many genres of games, as well as simulation projects; and is fully supported on PC and all console platforms.
Integrated voice communication on all platforms.
Unreal Engine gameplay network programming is high-level and data-driven, allowing UnrealScript game code to specify variables and functions to be replicated between client and server to maintain a consistent approximation of game state. The low-level game networking transport is UDP-based and combines reliable and unreliable transmission schemes to optimize gameplay, even in low-bandwidth and high-latency scenarios.
Client-server model supporting up to 64 players as provided.
Supports network play between different platforms (i.e. dedicated PC serving console clients).
Engine-level and content security.
Game code writes to one API that works across all online platforms.
All gameplay features are supported in network play, enabling vehicle-based multiplayer games, competitive team games with NPC's or bots, cooperative play in a single player focused game, and so on. Support for auto-downloading and caching content, including cross-platform compatible UnrealScript code. This feature enables everything from user-created maps, to bonus packs, to complete game mods to be downloaded on the fly.
Server browsing capabilities for finding and querying servers, keeping track of favorites, friends, in-game chat, etc.
Party system: the ability for a group of players to meet in a networked lobby and transition from match to match as a group.
Supports Games for Windows Live, Xbox Live, and GameSpy (PC and PS3) network platforms.
Support for Microsoft’s LIVE Server Platform (LSP).
Networked Title Updating system: allows for modification/customization of game features via downloaded files from an LSP so updates can happen without a TU.
Support for PS3 downloadable games via Sony’s Game Content Utility: UE3 games can be run as retail disc games, downloaded from the Playstation Store, or even a patch, all without the need for recompiling the code.


FPSC online play:
Support for internet and LAN deathmatches; make your game online with one click. up to 8 players, no team deathmatch support.



SCRIPTING LANGUAGE:


UnrealScript gameplay scripting language is a full-integrated, high-level Java-like object oriented programming language. It features:

Native language support for many concepts important in gameplay programming, such as dynamically scoped state machines and time-based (latent) execution of code.
Provides automatic support for metadata; persistence with very flexible file format backwards-compatibility; support for exposing script properties to level designers in UnrealEd.
Strongly typed.
Syntax similar to C++.
Managed object lifetime and garbage collection.
Built-in compiler.
Platform agnostic; bytcodes executed by virtual machine..
Built-in support for networking.
can tag functions to execute on server-only, client-only, or both.
easily control which data will be transmitted across network as part of the game state.
Native binary format is compiled into separate packages (similar to .dlls), with support for cross-package references.
Integrated preprocessor.
Support for a variety of data types.
Support for interfaces.
Delegates.
UnrealScript debugger.


FPSC FPI Scripting features:
simple game scripts with easily understandable actions and commands, easy to learn, and goes surprisingly deep. state based.


so as you can see, is that the FPSC engine is what would happen if you took the unreal engine, stripped away all, I MEAN ALL the frills (and added a few different ones) and released it. but for 50 dollars, It's pretty amazing. I've seen MANY games made in FPSC that I would play and liked better than UNREAL ENGINE games. It's pretty amazing, ALL thats necessary to make an FPSC game sellable in my eyes is originality. If I play an FPSC game, it's not worth much if I can TELL it's an FPSC game. the buyer of hte FPSC game should say:

"this is an awesome FPS game."

NOT

"this is an awesome FPSC game."

THAT my friends, os the difference between a sucessful, distributable FPSC game, and "oh no, another FPSC game"

CHEERS!

Wouldn't the short answer be no?
I mean, unless you have $350,000.00 or more laying around to pay the license...



And that is just for the old Unreal 2 engine, so you can imagine what 3 would cost.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of episodic content - fundamentally it allows you to test a market without pouring in the time/resources required to create a complete game. I think I am definately going to go down this route. In fact, I might even put out a press release later on today if I get some time. Viral marketing is, as always, a good idea but it's not necessarily that easy easy to carry out in practice...will have to think on this.



Hi Bugsy - I agree with you that it is originality that counts here. I the Wii analogy is a good one - developers struggle to port a game from the Xbox 360 to Wii and very often the port is heavily stripped of features (the last Call of Duty on the Wii being a case in point). Instead, clever developers work around the system limitations to create (in theory) unique and imaginative title - that is the approach I think FPSC users should take. I don't think this software will ever allow you to develop on the same level as the big developers - it simply can't at its current price point and with the resources currently assigned to it. But that's not a bad thing. Work around the limitations and be imaginative - personally I love the engine (even though getting it to do what I want is a nightmare, sometimes!!) but I get a really big kick out of creating a game the engine was necessarily designed to handle.

Hopefully I can move things forward a little bit today with a press release, etc. I have a pretty basic website at www.huntersofkentucky.com - I know it's not great so I'll hopefully get it redesigned shortly.

Eldora is a glorious example on what can be accomplished with FPSC.
If people jsut take the time and effort they can make a really nice game.Rolfy did it,and so can everyone else!

Regarding the post comparing Unreal to FPSC.

This is because FPSC is a click and drag FPS maker, i dont ever think it was intended to compete with the big engines, but offer some fun and insight into the world of game making, not to make AAA games, after all, fpsc x9 is only, what is it, $20-$30 now, whilst the big engines cost $100,000 onwards.

Having said this, i see nothing wrong with trying to get your game published, as long as the creator(s) realise that it WILL NOT stand up to any of the big games, and that they are not going to make a ton of money from it, but i have to admit, it would be nice to see something you created in a small shop somewhere.

Hey i do believe that FPSC will grow into something in a couple of of
years.If the migration comes out then i think it can compete on par
with the other big boys.

I agree, Rolfy is always a shining example of what can be created with FPSC



Absolutely - it's great fun and if you stick with it you can create some reasonably impressive results (but nothing that can sit next to UT3...but maybe something that can sit next to one of the Big Game Hunters discs I see everywhere!)

In all honest i have tried other engines, Leadwerks, Unity, NeoAxis, all with less limitations, and NONE of them felt as good as using FPSC.

Ps, Chidem, added you on msn

I have to admit that I've tried very few engines other than FPSC - I just love how easy it is to throw something together, but I really love the depth it offers if you spend enough time/effort on it



Cool, I'll look out for you

Yeah, i think also the community keeps me with FPSC, having all these other people, doing the same thing as you, not huge developers, just easy people that always wanna talk and discuss.

I agree completely - more so it is the willingness of members to share scripts and techniques that really helps thiings along!

This conversation compliments the statement completely lol.

I want to start a video game company for sure, but really, FPSC is good practice. and I'd MUCH rather play a round of The Warehouse than many UNREAL ENGINE games. but really, what makes FPSC developers UNABLE to sell games in the store? nothing. If the BOTB games here were put in the store, I'm sure they'd do better than the Bargain bin games AT LEAST in that they're all really original, and really well designed, right?...
...
...
...

WRONG.

today's average FPS-gamer needs a game made in a really powerful engine to satisfy his thirst for video game blood. that very thirst is what makes FPSC games not commercial quality. I sent my friends a version of an early on game I made (you get betrayed by the mafia) putting in lots of enemies, and fairly good level design. I asked how much they'd pay If they bought the game in the store. I got 5's 10's and a few 20 and 25's but one thing they all wanted more of? ENEMIES.

level 1 had: 5 enemies. It was a house level, and I thought 5 guards in the house was quite enough. but I guess not nearly enough for my friends; the average gamer.

level 2 had: 6 enemies. from the fire escape out of that house, and onto the street. police and swat teams. fought 2 at a time. still not enough combat

level 3 had: a big encounter of 5 enemies at once, and that almost usually killed the player instantly. they complained about how 5 people killed you so fast... WHAT? in reality, a fight isnt a guaranteed sucess unless it's 3 on 1. in an FPS, it's usually 1 on 1. but one on 5 forces the player to think, and not just rush in, making the enemy encounter hard... making less badguys-more. but NO they hit too much, they shot too fast, they had too much ammo, etc. etc. all the reasons why they complained at how hard it was to kill "only 5 guys"

level 4, the final level had: 10 enemies. one of which you didn't kill, he killed you, and one of which was a boss. the first 8 were regular enemies with dumbed down AI to make them easier. (I even died on this level a few times) but nonetheless, it was possible. my friends (of course) all favored this level most becase it was a big open area, with lots of enemies, however, itt was still too hard to kill "only 8 guys" and still didn't (when asked later) have enough badguys for their standards.

did you notice I didn't mention storyline, lightmapping or level design once. well it saddens me to say this, but todays casual-to-semi-hardcore. gamer only wants (and I quote) "a big gun and lots of badguys to shoot"

How many people do you will in Brain Training? I know that maybe sounds flippant, but it's not my intention. My point is there is no rule that says you have to create first person shoorters with FPSC. If you create an FPS you immediately put yourself up against the big guns (no pun intended) and I think you will always come off wanting. Why not a puzzle or platform game? The latter two combined could create something a bit like Metroid Prime - been a while since I played the last entry in that series but if memory serves the killing of enemies in that game is secondary at best - there is alot of puzzle to be solved in order to advance. Or, we could gi back to my original blue ocean idea, the on-the-rails shooter. Because you specifically limit visible areas and can easily employ a spawn system to generate enemies when they are in view you would be able to create some nice looking scenes, I bet. You could also have alot more enemies whilst possibly limiting ammunition, etc, to increase challenge.



Your most recent post, Bugsy, takes a somewhat contradictory stance to your previous one. I think your last statement...

...has some truth to it - for people who are ardent fans of shooters. But if originality is the key, as you yourself said, then it is the designer's responsibility to work around these issues. For example, you could have lowered the height of your main character and had players take on the role of a child who witnessed a mafia murder. The child can use no weapons and instead has to escape the building before he is detected by solving room based puzzles to escape - surely that would negate any protests about guns if the fundamental basis of a game created in FPSC ignored shooting almost entirely? Perhaps with a different concept that sidesteps shooting "storyline, lightmapping or level design" could be discussed by players? Please don't take this as any kind of dig at your game as I have not played it though I'm sure it's good - the point I'm making is there are ways to work around the issues that appear to hamper FPSC. IMHO, if all the average gamer really wanted were bigger guns and more enemies then the PlayStation 3 would have sold an awful lot more by now.

IN MY EYES all it takes is originality.

no one elses eyes.

also:

it wasn't it just had tons of badguys.



what my friend would answer: that would fail, it's not an FPS its an FPB first person bore.

honestly, I agree with you, but the average person who will play your game will be between the ages of 12 to 19, (unless you aim for a different demographic, which will still net you a considerable amount 12-19 year olds who want to kill some guys) people in a store look at the back of the case, see the guns, see the FPS point of view, and assume the whole thing is FPS game. and get bored, and badmouth you're game.

EXAMPLE:
I (being more mature than average people my age group)love tha game mirrors edge, a game with FAR less enemies than an average FPS game today. I loved it, even though there were tons of difficult puzzles. my friend, who I thought would like it (he's of average maturity for our age group) I put him on the boat level. immediately, he wanted to shoot the 2 people by the truck. I told him he had to get down there. he got to the parking garage shooting scene he shot some guards with the gun, and then, once it was over, he proceded to complain about how the fight was too short and the game was boring. jake was going to buy this game, but he learned that it was "too boring for his tastes" for lack of enemies. mirrors edge, in theory could be made in FPSC (if all the elevators were level ends lol) and it would be a great game. It was original, had puzzles, shooting, anything. of course, It got lots of not-so-hot reviews. why? because it didnt stand up to everyones pre-concieved notion of how an FPS should be. the people who reviewed it badly... well... I've read several reviews with no mention of level design, no mention of story either.

THE POINT: If I, or anyone else makes a game, no matter WHAT engine, that doesnt meet fads and standards, will "suck" in the eyes of the public. Im not saying a little originality will mean bad reviews, I'm just saying that the public doesn't much like games that "go out of bounds" so to speak.

ROFL - at least they know what they like!



Fair point regarding that particular demographic - I think what your point illustrates is how important it is to find and target the right audience

Perhaps we should begin to market our games as First Person Adventures instead of First Person Shooters.

Brian.

most people would see that and think you were just emphasizing your game.

humans are visual, the people who spot your game in the store will look at the back for the gameplay pics. you will need to entice them with action packed pictures of... EXPLOSIONS, and... NAKED WOMEN... and... WRESTLING!!! not a picture that will give them that: "oh-god-I-just-walked-into-a-huge-puzzle" feeling.

point: no one will buy your game unless the pictures give them a sense of instant gratification. the pics must stimulate them to want to play.

also, I've been mentioning wow to sell your game and get good reviews (as if anyone reviewed FPSC games)

but how do you get stores to sell your game in the first place?

thats a question

I think you're being too pessimistic, applying your own personal experiences across a broad range of circumstances. I am not saying that what you said isn't true for some gamers, but not all or necessarily a majority. Oblivion is not an FPS - Fallout 3 is not an FPS - Fable II bears no resemblence to Tomb Raider, even though there are superficial similarities. More to the point, it is my understanding that people bought Portal for just the very reason you described - the "'oh-god-I-just-walked-into-a-huge-puzzle' feeling." Ditto Metroid Prime. And Prey.

I think before considering entering a shop you need to have a very good idea about who you're marketing towards - you don't need big explosions or naked women or any of the things that may appeal to some members of a particular demographic. Rather, you need to identify what does appeal to your preferred end user.




I think you'd need to be able to approach them with a very clear sense of your product and why it will sell, identifying a key (but not necessarily traditional) demographic - you need to be able to show what makes your game unique (what are its unique selling points) - not what makes your game the same as everything else on the shelves

and you actually believe that fpsc will have something unique?hmmmmm yes i will be the only game that will cost 3 dollars and that you wont buy it cause you have played games so much better in everything.....sooooo nahn...

No, FPSC has nothing unique except it's ease of use, which is irrelevant. It's not what FPSC has, it what you have that makes or breaks the game. I've seen what I would describe as "works of art" made in MS Paint, and I've seen some pretty amazing stuff made with FPSC. It's only as good as you make it, and if all you can do is drag and drop characters on a map, it won't be very good. Of course, you already know this.

Brian.

My sentiments exactly

The engine is not what makes a game unique; not in this case anyway. This is the same thing as people blaming the engine for the things they don't know how to pull off themselves. If you really want to find out what distinguishes the commercial games available on shelves today from each another, you don't have to look far to notice that they all have their own storylines, and their own exclusive media, characters, weapons, and commands designed specifically for that title, to suit the games' enviornments and their own backgrounds.

How far do you think Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Halo, and all of those other big titles would have come if they all used the same WW2 characters and an MP40 with no hands? Making a game with any engine that has the potential to make it big on the market takes a lot more work and dedication that a can of Pepsi and a few mouse clicks. If you head over to the WIP boards, you can clearly distinguish the games there that are being slapped together in an hour, and the ones that have been a WIP for several months.

If you want a game with a unique quality to it, don't rely on the engine. Fire up Blender (or whatever seems to be the most popular modeling software used here) and start creating some models, scenery, and character that are based around your story and your game...not the other way around. And if you don't know how to model, or how to script, do what I did; find somebody that does, and join forces


://end rant


Kravenwolf

Thank you, kravenwolf- EXACTLY

The player of you're game will regard it as another FPSC game iff they see the same old model pack 10 weapons, the same old modelpack 4 and 1 characters, and the same old WWII and sci-fi props. using stuff they've never seen before would make for a gianl leap on the originality meter for your game.

as for puzzles, look at the fallout 3 box art: I got a sence of instant gratification from it, I saw no "oh god a puzzle" pics.

same with mirrorss edge

same for most games.

the point: while you may advertise to puzzle fps gamers, some bored 16 year old is going to walk in, go "what the hell" and buy your game, only to discourage everyone he knows about it

I may be pessimistic, but the more optimistic you are, the more dissapointed you may be if your game doesnt sell the way you say it will. you need to take everything into consideration, and still market it to get sales.

IDEAS:
put combat AND puzzle pics on the back. that way at least the player knows what he's getting in to. put an "oh, crap, theres like fifty giant monsters coming at me but it's cool, I've got a giant grenade launcher" pic as well as an "oh jesus, this puzzle's gonna take all night" pic. make the buyer consider buying your game longer, if they buy it, and don't like it, than its their own fault and they're less likely to tell everyone how crappy it is if it showed them the best AND worst of times on the box.

perhaps in the description, tell the buyer that it is a puzzle game (in a sensational way, of course) insted of: you will get a headache from doing these insanely boring, excrucistingly impossible puzzles, make it: challenging brain bogglers keep the player thinking through this fast paced adventure game... that makes the buyer (whoever they may be) think "well, theres some hard puzzles, but the package art looks good and it fees like its gonna be awesome, and for 15 dollars... I'll take it"

PRICING: when pricing a game at the store, always assume you are in the bargain bin. hold your head (and price) higher than some other complete flops of the bargain bin (spongebob, simpsons, other cookie cutter FPS games) If we sold a game like Fallout of humanity, or Anderson and the legacies of Cthulhu, you'd sell it for 20 dollars- that price says: I'm a fun game, I'll give you hours of entertainment, I'm a quality game, but still, dont compare me to halflife 2 or Fear or Gears of war.

15 dollars is a good price for an Above Average FPSC game, a game like... just something that isn't too new or amazing but still is fun to play and will get you multiple hours of gameplay. it says: I'll cure you're weekend boredom with a fun shooting/puzzle game. you still understand that i'm a 15 dollar game, and shouldnt be compared to anything on the best seller list, but among other indie gamees, I'm one of the best.

10 dollars is a good price for an average FPSC game. that says that I've been built by an indie designer, I'm not to be taken seriously, and I'm only meant to be a fun remedy for a few hours lull in your schedule. among other indie games, I rank average.

below 10 dollars means bottom dollar bargain bin. this game is just for a quick shoot'em up or nice little puzzle. not the best level design or lighting, but hey, you're just playing for fun if you buy a 5 dollar game

when i was saying that they locked my topic.......i mean come on i had a topic about all that.....hahaha..jokingyou actually mean my game?oohhh my god ...i am sooo happy

If so, sell it. It'd do well I bet

It looks like a great game - not played the demo but love the look - reminds me of Fallout 3 which is always a good thing!

Yeah, sell it. It'd make good money.

also-

anyone consider banner advertisements for their game? even google ads work. I clicked one yesterday. on the internet I mean

OK, quick update on the progress of this little experiment. I've finally released Pioneering: Explore the Early American West on my website. I don't plan on my website being my main distribution outlet so it's something of a soft launch as I gear up other outlets and try to build some hype. So far I've not really done any promotion, per se, though I have put out a number of press releases that are starting to drive some traffic to the site so any promotional ideas, feel free to share! Hopefully I figure out a marketing plan that works I can share those ideas with you all

The site for my game is http://www.thehistoryforge.com - feedback welcome

I've actually just started a google adwords campaign - not sure how well it will work but I had a coupon so I'll let you know

cool, thanks for bringing this thread back up. I'm planning to sell my game radiate for a fair price of 10 dollars. not 20, like maybe a PBUM game, but not 5, like a noobeh game. really, All I'll do is an expiriment- I release it for 10 dollars, multiplayer included- and see if people buy it:

if more than 15 people buy it- I consider it a success: profit was made- I doubled what I spent on it.

if LESS than 15 people buy it- I set the price down to 5 dollars and see if it can sell more than 15 copies. but if still, no one gets it- I write it off and start work on a new project- the money I do make will be used to get PB.

with PB- I'll release a game for 10 dollars again- advertising what my friends want- lots of fighting and action

let's say it sells 20 copies among my friends- that'd be considered a success- but at less than 20, it's not.

hopefully for christmas, I'd get a new computer, allowing me to push the envelope from the graphical standpoint.

all this is part of a big expiriment- do graphics sell better, or does gameplay.

chidem,

The website looks Great! If you want to, send me a half banner (468x60) ad and I'll put it on my main page linked to your site.

Brian.

Awesome Bugsy - If I can get the sales ball rolling I'll be sure to pass on whatever tips I can.



Thanks Brian, I'll get on that now!

I think a boxed edition of the game would make it seem more professional- try that, because downloading form some random site will discourage some skeptics.

but for a hosting website- I think clickbank is a good one.

I have given it some thought but if I do it I dare say it will be in something of a non-traditional sense. What I mean by that is Pioneering would make the most sense being sold as a boxed product in museums and reconstructed frontier forts in America rather than through traditional retail outlets. I have been giving this some thought and I think that the souvenier market is one niche that my game could sell in as a boxed impulse buy product. Not sure where to start when it comes to contacting the right people but I may look into that later.