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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Blitzwerks Terrain - Endless Terrain Demo

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KISTech
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Posted: 28th Mar 2011 21:06 Edited at: 16th Aug 2011 03:45
This works for both the full version and the free version, since the free version allows up to 4 terrains to be loaded at once.

This demo shows how you can take a large edge wrapped heightmap from L3DT Pro, break it into pieces, and make a continuous never ending terrain with it.

The heightmap is a 4096 x 4096 color heightmap saved in RAW format using L3DT Pro, then converted to a BMP using Kaedroho's conversion code.



Then I took the heightmap and texture files and split them up into a 16x16 grid.

The terrain you start out on is Terrain 1 and is loaded at position 0,0.

When you run this you'll see Red and Yellow lines on the terrain.



The Yellow lines mark the halfway point across a terrain. When you cross these lines the terrains behind you are deleted, and the terrains in front of you are loaded. I've kept the scale small enough that you can see the terrains pop into existence in the distance. (or disappear if you're walking backwards)

The Red lines mark the edge of the terrains, and as you cross onto an adjacent terrain, you and all the currently loaded terrains are shifted so you remain in the area between 0,0 to (terrain size),(terrain size). This is to avoid the problem where objects start to jitter due to the loss of floating point accuracy at great distances from 0,0,0.

The idea behind this is there are never more than 4 terrains loaded at any time, thus saving memory and allowing some VERY large terrains to be created. Since the full heightmap is set up to wrap, this allows you to just keep going, and going, and going endlessly. I've also put numbers on the 256 terrains so you get a feel for where you are on the overall map.

The 256 individual heightmaps created are 256x256, and you really can't use anything larger than that or you run out of memory and it crashes. You also can't scale it to large for the same reasons. I've been able to get a scale of 32 to work with a terrain split value of 8. If you experience an AppCrash, try lowering the terrain scale, or the split. If the split value is to low, BT will give you an error letting you know. If it's to high you'll run out of memory and the program will crash.

Updated August 15th, 2011 for updates to Windows 7 and to include the missing C++ runtime files.
Endless Terrain Demo download.

I plan to use this for an upcoming FPS, but I wanted to share the technique with the community.

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baxslash
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Posted: 29th Mar 2011 14:45
Nice work as usual KISTech!! I look forward to seeing the game.

What genre will it be? Racing? RPG? Other?

KISTech
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Posted: 29th Mar 2011 20:02
Quote: "Nice work as usual KISTech!! I look forward to seeing the game."


Thanks! That actually means a lot coming from you.

Quote: "What genre will it be? Racing? RPG? Other?"


It's going to be an MMOFPS with something unique. It's actually going to be an MMO. The other ones out today aren't really MMOs. They still rely on loading levels, obtaining a goal, and loading the next level, or they just play the same map over and over again.

This one is going to be a persistent battlefield where the front lines actually move in whatever direction the battles being won take it. As long as there are at least 4 players on each side, the front lines can be fought for.

The demo shows that you can take off in any direction and the terrain just keeps going, and going, and going. What it doesn't show is the sector system I have in mind. In the demo there are 256 pieces to the overall terrain map. That set of maps makes up 1 sector. As you move past the edge of Map 1 onto Map 255 (if you're headed south) you are crossing into another sector. So tracking a person, or object, or whatever, all you have to keep track of is what Sector they are in, what map they are on, and the X and Z position on that map. Using an X,Y value for the sector identity, the potential for huge, giant, ginormous worlds becomes a reality.

For the sake of preserving what little sanity I have left, I'm starting this with an 8 x 8 sector map. I suspect it will take days to place all the objects for even a single map in a sector, so even 8 x 8 is kind of ambitious considering that's 16,384 individual maps. We'll just have to see how it all plays out once I have all the art assets together.

I will also add, FPSC Model Pack 53 is the basis and inspiration for the whole project.

baxslash
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Posted: 30th Mar 2011 10:38
Sounds very interesting!

Quote: "I will also add, FPSC Model Pack 53 is the basis and inspiration for the whole project."

LOL, it's the inspiration for my follow up to "The Last Stand" too. The amount (and style) of the new animations make it perfect for the "Resident Evil" style I'm going for.

I love the sound of your game and I'll be watching the WIP boards for it...

KISTech
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Posted: 30th Mar 2011 18:05
Quote: "The amount (and style) of the new animations make it perfect for.."


I was thinking the same thing, but with more of an America's Army feel. Both sides are well equipped with American military equipment.

I'm trying to go more for realism than the same old Call of Duty style multiplayer where most people are "running and gunning". I'm also working on ways to stop hackers from spoiling the game like they have with the Battlefield series, the Call of Duty series, and other games that could be really good if the hackers weren't there ALL THE TIME.

Quote: "I love the sound of your game and I'll be watching the WIP boards for it..."


It's going to be a little while before that happens. But not to long...

Oneka
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 05:45
Doesnt work for me, when I move to a certain terrain it just crashes for me, something to do with blitzterrain


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KISTech
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 17:53
Was that from the included executable, or did you recompile and run it?

If you recompiled the source, do you have the 2.02 version installed?

Oneka
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 18:34
It was from the included exe


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KISTech
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 18:43
When does it crash?

- When it's about to show the terrain
- When you cross a yellow line
- When you cross a red line

I had problems with version 2.01 that caused an AppCrash, but Kaedroho worked those out for 2.02. It does still happen occasionally, and I'm not sure why.

Sometimes it has to do with the scale and split settings, but usually not.

mr Handy
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 22:24
CRASH! and crash! and so on...
Although, why terrain texture is sooo lowres?

Oneka
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Posted: 1st Apr 2011 00:34
I think it crashes near a yellow line for me, and near the white areas


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KISTech
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Posted: 1st Apr 2011 01:41
The white areas are just a snow ground texture. Yellow would be unloading terrains behind you and loading the next set in front of you, which is usually where it crashed on me until version 2.02.

It will also crash if you don't have enough RAM available.

Quote: "Although, why terrain texture is sooo lowres?"


I haven't implemented a texture shader, or any kind of terrain painting yet. So the 4096x4096 texture that's used becomes very low res when stretched across 256 smaller terrains.


If you have the new 2.02 version of BlitzTerrain try changing the TerrScale variable to 8 or 12 and recompile. Maybe that will fix the problem for you.

Oneka
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Posted: 1st Apr 2011 05:17
Well, I dont know why, I should have more than enough ram because if 4gbs on XP isnt enough then yeah, something is wrong, but Its probably something about Version 2.0x


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KISTech
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Posted: 1st Apr 2011 19:29
Yeah, if you're still using 2.01 then recompiling will make it worse. The fix for this came in 2.02, but I don't know why it doesn't work from the executable I included.

Can you copy and paste the AppCrash details and I'll forward it to Kaedroho?

Oneka
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Posted: 1st Apr 2011 20:05
Yeah I will asap, I havent recompiled as I dont use Darkbasic Pro anymore so I just clicked and ran the exe


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Oneka
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2011 06:28
The error




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Matty H
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2011 15:16
I had a good walk around and it worked fine on my machine.

spudnick
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Posted: 11th May 2011 21:53
Hi, and thanks for sharing your info on large terrain.
But i tried to run the included EXE file but got a Dll error or msvcp100.dll was not found.

do i have to install anything else to get your demo to work
Or do i have recompile it!

Thanks for any advice
The Slayer
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Posted: 12th May 2011 00:34
Quote: "But i tried to run the included EXE file but got a Dll error or msvcp100.dll was not found."

As far as I know, thats a .dll from the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package (x86), which can be downloaded here.
See if this solves your problem.

Cheers

SLAYER RULES! YEAH, MAN!!
KISTech
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Posted: 12th May 2011 02:05
Yep, that's the solution for that.

JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 17:54
Hello, I wanted to say I love the EndlessTerrain.EXE demo you have. Its perfect for what I am looking for. The problem is, I cannot compile the source code provided with it. Here is why..

I get this error and it just plain wont compile :
Could not determine parameter type of 'find free image()' at line 44.

Here is the code in question :
TerrHM = find free image()


The problem is, if it needs the BlitzWerks plugin, does anyone know where I can get that ? Because I been waiting on the Blitzwerks website to work for quite a long time now. But its been saying "Under Construction" since Monday, June 06, 2011.

Now according to Kristech, it can run with the Blitzwerks demo plugin, so I would be happy to at least use that until the website is up and running. I want to try this out before I buy it.

If this has nothing to do with Blitzwerks, then can you point me in the right direction here ? Its weird because the EXE demo works great.

Thanks in advance for any help.
baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 18:01 Edited at: 12th Jul 2011 19:15
@JackDawson, that's a Matrix utility command. I recommend you get the plugin (it's free):
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85209&b=18

Many of us believe DBP would be much improved by including these commands in the DBP library.

EDIT: @JD, you have to actually buy the plugin to be able to compile using it... there isn't a demo dll, just a compiled version with code for those who have purchased the full plugin. I assumed you had bought it.

JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:11
Interesting. It seemed to fix that one glitch. Thanks for the input. Now the only thing left for me to do is get ahold of that plugin. Because now i'm getting the BT errors.. In otherwords, its needing Blitzwerks. Once I know that the demo pluging will work, it will be worth buying the real version. If the real version is still available. Or is it depreciated for something else instead ?

Anyhow, the error....

At this line :

92 BT SetATMode 1

It gives me this error :

Could not understand command at line 92. In other words, missing the required plugin.

But thanks for the other info on the plugins. Good to know.
JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:33
Ok, I have finally found a copy of the Blitzwerks DLL and INI file. It was not easy.. let me tell ya.. hahahahaha

Anyhow.. I attached a picture of the error I am getting with the BT file. ( NOTE : Yes I put the ini and DLL where its supposed to be in the DarkBasic Pro folders. I also did restart DBP. )

At least I can get to the screen where its saying "Seperating Maps.."

and then I get that BT error. Again, I attached a picture of what it looks like.

I figure... if I keep plugging away at this, I will get it to compile and work.. hahaha.. Thanks again for all your help here.

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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:39
@JackDawson, from the message you just posted it sounds like you are saying you got hold of a pirate copy of the BT dll, good luck when that one hits a moderator's inbox... see you in court?

Quote: "Ok, I have finally found a copy of the Blitzwerks DLL and INI file. It was not easy.. let me tell ya.. hahahahaha"


KISTech
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:40
There is a free version of BlitzTerrain. It's missing some of the more advanced commands, but it should do just fine.

BlitzTerrain WIP thread

The download link is at the bottom of the first post.

baxslash
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 19:42
Quote: "There is a free version of BlitzTerrain. It's missing some of the more advanced commands, but it should do just fine."

Really? My bad then... I hope that's the version you meant @JackDawson. No offense intended.

JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:04
Yes Kristech, that is the link I found it on.

However, any ideas on the error I am getting ? I sent in that picture to show what its doing. Again, it gets to the black screen... even the compiler says successful.. But then I get that popup message telling me its a Build error.

Its version 2.02.1 according to the PDF.
JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jul 2011 20:08
By the way, I just wanted to say, you guys rock.. I have been hunting around for months to get a working "Infinite Terrain demo" to work in ANY language. Everyone seems to be looking for a "working" demo to learn off of. But everywhere you look, there is a dead end in one way or another.

So far, just seeing this EXE work is awesome. I cannot wait to see it actually compile so I can play with it.

Again, thanks again for all the work you guys have done here.
JackDawson
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 09:14
Hey Kristech, in case its relevant to your code, I posted the error I was having with the Blitzwerks DLL on this link.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=8&t=145404&p=41

I explain in more detail as to what its doing. Which I found that the INI has in TWO places the same command. I edited the INI file to the point of even taking out both commands, but it still compiled successful and then would go into the black screen with your text showing that your program is running up to this call :
BT BuildTerrain.

Once it gets to that call, the program pops up a message saying its running the function already and then your demo crashes. Now I dont think its your source code, I think its the Demo BT DLL file ( Version 2.02.1 ). But in case you might know something about all this that I don't, I figure I would give you a heads up on this. I am still hoping to be able to compile your demo after all this.. hahahaha
IanM
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 13:30
The INI file doesn't affect the commands that run - you can literally remove those files, and all that will happen is that the keyword colouring will disappear (at least once you've rebuilt the keywords list), but the commands will still work.

Duplicate commands in INI files (which reflect those in the DLL files) are perfectly OK, as long as the number and/or types of arguments differ in some way.

Your error is definitely a runtime error detected within the BT plug-in.

JackDawson
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 14:33
Hey thank you for the clarification and confirmation. That's actually pretty cool idea as for highlighting the Function Names.
KISTech
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 18:25
There's 2 things about this demo that you should know.

BlitzTerrain takes up a lot of memory. So if you've got other things running, and/or you don't have much RAM in your system it will crash on the BT Build with sometimes strange errors.

There is also a bug in BlitzTerrain during loading and unloading of terrains, which is primarily what this demo does. However, since Kaedroho is out of school and has a job now, probably doing some really cool programming, he hasn't got the time to fix it. He started on a rewrite of the whole plugin, but no idea when that will be released.

So at this point with BlitzTerrain you are best off going for huge single terrains, and using scale to make your level as big as is reasonable.

JackDawson
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Posted: 13th Jul 2011 23:10
Awww man.. ok..

Well it was a cool idea at least. Thanks for letting me know.

So is there any alternative that would allow terrain that is similar to Blitzwerks, since Blitzwerks is no good ? Is there one just as good ?

Maybe I can make an infinite terrain demo myself once I can find a plugin that can handle the terrain aspect of it, like BT was supposed to do.

Any ideas there ?

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 01:03
This is by far the best terrain system I've found. The fact that the demo runs pretty much shows that it does work.

You just have to keep the terrain size small. Heightmaps of 256 x 256 or smaller should work. The demo was actually made with the free version of the plugin in mind, since the free version allows you to load up to 4 terrains at once. If it's failing at the build, then maybe the free version doesn't support that many.

Kaedroho will likely come back to this plugin at some point, so there is still hope for all the things he wanted to put into this. Streaming terrain was the feature I was hoping for, but it hasn't quite come yet.

If you're doing anything with terrain though, it's either this or the Advanced Terrain commands. You could also go looking for Evolved's Advanced Lighting demo. It's all coded in DBPro and gives AMAZING results for terrain and water.

JackDawson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 03:30
Interesting.. so your saying that once I buy the REAL version of the BT plugin, that this demo will work ? I think that's where I am confused.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 05:54
It "might". I'm fairly sure the free plugin allows loading 4 terrains, and I'm fairly sure I wrote the code to use only commands available in the free plugin. It's been a little while since I've looked at it.

What type of graphics card do you have, and how much system RAM? Maybe that has something to do with it.

You said the precompiled demo works though, right?

JackDawson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 08:27
Yea the Pre-compiled EXE you made works no problem. The free version of the plugin was not installed during this time. The exe apparently doesn't need any DLLs. What is interesting is the free plugin will NOT compile with your code because of that one BT BuildTerrain command. It has me nervous if I want to spend 40 bucks on a plugin that may not work.

As for my computer, yea Its no slouch.

CPU : 6-Core 1090T AMD ( 3.4 Gighertz per core )
Motherboard : Asrock 890GX with ATI Crossfire ( 3 ATI cards can fit on this )
RAM : 4 Gigs DDR3 ram
Video Card : 5570 HD ATI with 1 Gig Ram ( Handles 4.1 OpenGL and DirectX 11 with no problem )
1 Terrabyte Hard Drive ( 5 Terrabytes External )

The problem is the free plugin. And as was confirmed by one of the moderators here ( IanM ) its the free version of the plugin that doesn't work right.

You see here is why I am harping on this so much. Anyone can make a 1 square terrain in practically ANY programing language. But, precious few can make the terrain infinite. I have been scouring the net for about a year now. I have tested code in multiple languages. The problem is, the code I find is usually from 2002 or some date of "back when". Meaning the newer compilers will NOT compile it. The other problem was, I have never found a working EXE demo either.. until yours. Your EXE is the first WORKING demo EXE I actually got to see working in all my travels of looking for infinite terrain. I have only see pictures of so called infinite terrain, but never an actual working copy.

On youtube its a joke now days. We see a lot of people who "show off" their infinite terrain, but when people have asked them to show code, they "suddenly lost" the code somehow. Meaning the videos most likely are fakes, OR they stole the code from someone who actually got it to work long ago. Sad.

Your EXE actually works, and to me makes you a genius in my eyes. Its why I am so "hard up" to get this demo working. So once I see it working, I can then play with it and LEARN from it so I can see how it all works. There are plenty of tutorials on this subject, but you have to be a Math genius with a PhD to understand it. Yea, not my strong suite now days since I am over 40+ and loosing my marbles.

So, please forgive my pestering you on this, its just your the only one who can prove that it really can work out of all the languages I have tested ( C++ / C# / BASIC in other BASIC compilers / Python ).

I am a 3D artist normally. But this infinite terrain has been my passion lately to get a working copy to learn and hopefully test some game ideas off of. ( No plagiarizing involved of course ).

Again, Kristech, thank you for your patience. Not easy for us noobs to learn from those who know all of this, because of the lack of patience they have for us. "Reading a Wiki" can only go so far, a working copy helps further along that knowledge. Thank you.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 17:45
It's most likely the free plugin causing the problem.

I would buy the plugin, and sink my teeth into it. It's well worth it, and Kaedroho will likely come back to it when he can.

The code I put together isn't all that crazy with math. I'm no math genius either, and it's hard sometimes at 45 to keep up with these "kids" that show up out of nowhere that know C++ inside out, and can bang out working code in a very short amount of time.

Anyway, that's my suggestion. If this has been the only real working demo with current tools that you've been able to find, with code included, then grab the plugin and run with it.

I'll guarantee the paid plugin works with the code, or I'll work with you on it until it does.

JackDawson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 18:05
Oh that would make my day. Then its settled, I will be buying the plugin on the first of the month. Its when my next check comes in. The wife and I are about to head to a beach vacation so I wont have funds until the first.

Anyhow thanks again..

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
JackDawson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 20:22
By the way, I signed up for your "Worlds Apart" game I wanted to test out. But it hasn't sent me a way to authorize myself yet. Just giving you a heads up.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 22:27
I activated your account. You should receive a confirmation email.

Let me know if it doesn't arrive.

JackDawson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2011 23:00
I got it just now. It went to my spam, but I got it. There probably should be a warning about the spam.. lol

Anyhow, not sure what all I can do, but I did sign up to test the game. Just awaiting on what I am allowed to do. I would love to help out. The idea of traveling to any planet and build on that planet is an idea I was going to do for my game. I already had started making the game in another language. But got stopped by this pesky Infinite terrain issue.

I can make models and other various things, but I didn't have a terrain I liked. I want to do what that one guy from Infinity Universe is doing and make it where you can actually land on the planet. I got ideas on HOW to do it, but again, I been stopped by the terrain matching so its "infinite". Now no game would allow infinite I understand that. Because of hardware limits. HOWEVER, walking all the way around the planet is more what I have in mind. And others said they can do it. Infinity Universe is one of them that claims it. Plus the videos that guy has put together is pretty cool.

So I thought about something similar and that's when I stumbled on your site. So who knows.. maybe together we could pull something here. Its why I am curious to see where your at so far.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
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Posted: 15th Jul 2011 00:44
I haven't really touched Worlds Apart in quite a while. I put it on the back burner to try and put together a game that would be faster to develop in an attempt to actually bring some money in for my efforts.

I started on an FPS, which you saw on the YouTube channel, and I was about to get into the sticky parts of the coding for that when I was accepted for the AppGameKit beta. All my efforts since then have been towards the AppGameKit and helping to squash as many bugs as I can find, and give helpful feedback on existing or needed commands.

As for "infinite" terrain. I've seen the videos for the Infinity Engine, and it's been steadily progressing for YEARS, but nothing about a release date.

The Endless Terrain demo is infinite, but it accomplishes that by repeating the same terrains. Granted they are big enough you could do just about anything in that space and very few would really notice, but it does lack some variety.

What I want, and what Kaedroho has been wanting to do with BlitzTerrain is put in a streaming feature, where you can set up lots of heightmaps for something like a planet. Have them match at the seams, and be able to feed that into BlitzTerrain for dynamic loading and unloading of terrain blocks as you move along.

Someday I hope he'll get back to it. In the mean time, it's still one of the best terrain systems I've seen. One that comes close in a commercial game is the terrain for Just Cause 2. It's a huge environment, and very VERY well done terrain and water.

For Worlds Apart Online I had started incorporating BlitzTerrain so you could land on the planets, get out of the ship and walk around towns. That's about where I left off though. I wasn't really going to continue with BlitzTerrain until it had the features I needed for Worlds Apart. So until he comes back to it, or I change dev environments, Worlds Apart is kind of stuck where it's at for now.

In the mean time, I'm going to be cranking out games with the AGK.

Send me a sample of some of your music. I'm looking for a musician to help with a project.

JackDawson
12
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Joined: 12th Jul 2011
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Posted: 15th Jul 2011 04:16
Bro, the planet idea I got worked out. What I didn't have worked out was the terrain "reset" that it does. You got it. In fact, with a Perline noise function to create 1 HightMap.. roughly 512 x 256. That would represent a sphere. Have EACH PIXEL shade or color represent a sub hightmap for that particular terrain that is roughly 512x512. The server only needs to make the terrain that has been explored. That way, if its not explored its not been saved and can still be generated at any time. The reason for the MAIN sphere texture is for the actually "looking at" the planet itself.

Make sense ?

As for my music, you can download it from my website directly. I give all 3 of my albums away for free.

http://www.youdidwhattowho.com

From there click on the MUSIC link. You will see the ZIP file and you can even listen to them on that same page if you scroll down a bit.

Again, I was planning on all this myself for my game known as Land Rush 3D. I already have a VPN with 8 gig ram for a test server and the website has been up for months. Just not much on it yet.


Hope this info helps with some ideas.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
JackDawson
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Joined: 12th Jul 2011
Location:
Posted: 4th Aug 2011 07:36
KISTech, hey bro.. I left you a couple messages in our gtalk. Let me know if we can get this demo working now. I have bought and paid for everything that was needed so far. Not sure if there is other stuff or not. Thanks man.

P.S. I did a reinstall of everything.. but now your Demo is no longer working. Not sure what this means yet.

"If you can sing that high, you must have been kicked in the crotch a little too hard."
KISTech
16
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Joined: 8th Feb 2008
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Posted: 16th Aug 2011 03:46
I have updated the download in the first post to include a recompiled executable that fixes this being able to run under Windows 7 SP1, and also includes the VC 2005 runtime files that are missing on some people's machines.

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