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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Weapon transparency (model within a model) - Can it be done?

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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 02:23
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As the title says.

I'm trying to get a weapon HUD model (with transparency) with a model inside it to show both models.
I can't tell you what actual model i'm doing right now (its for a project for someone else) but an example of what I am trying to achieve would be to see a cork model inside a semi transpaent bottle model.

I have already tried and tested a double sided 'plane' of the 'bottle' and a modelled interior to the bottle with the transparency value in the 'gunspec' set to '2' but can still not see the cork model within the bottle model.
I'm using a '.TGA' file format for the texture file with an alpha channel set for the backround.

Does anyone know if this can be possible in FPSC?
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Wolf
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 06:56
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I know for a fact that tranparency can be done in fpsc. I usually use .png images for the texture and convert it in .dds.



-Wolf

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
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MaximSokol
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 09:47
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Just apply a .dds texture with DXT-3 Interpolated Alpha, or DXT-5. It works ideal, even you can apply shaders on semi-transparent textures to make them look cool.

Let's Rock!
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 12:27
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Thanks for the replies.
I'm getting transparency OK but it simply does not allow the model of the cork to be shown within the bottle.
I've searched this subject and to date have not seen anything other than a two part work around to achieve this effect for a segment entity.
The problem is that this HUD model has to be a singular model because the 'cork' will be animated and has to move in relation to any animated movement of the bottle.

Has anyone been able to achieve the effect of a 'model within a model' using a single overal model (i.e cork inside a bottle)?
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Errant AI
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 12:59 Edited at: 12th Sep 2012 13:00
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Ross, I do this sort of often (such as scopes having three alpha planes overlapping and needing to see all three) and know what you're talking about. The problem is with draw order. You can force the draw order by hierarchy linking the objects in different orders. You will need to break the cork into its own sub mesh or else draw order goes by vertex creation order and can have flaky results. Sometimes this requires use of a dummy object

Something like...

dummy parent
-bottle
-cork

or

dummy parent
-cork
-bottle

will make the cork appear or disappear. I don't remember the order right off but you basically do this to tell DX to draw the cork after its drawn the bottle.
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 12th Sep 2012 22:08
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Errant AI

Cheers Errant, I'll be taking a look into it and see what I can come up with.

Thanks again and all the best of luck to you.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 12:11
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That is very interesting and would explain many failed attempts at getting good transparencys in to the game engine. Thanks for the tip.

[Nothing but coffee in my veins 'Insomnia is Coming'
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 13th Sep 2012 23:56
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Errant AI

Took a in depth look at the functions available in 'Milkshape' (which I use) but unfortunately there is no 'hierarchy linking' system in place as far as I can see.
Never mind, I shall make a note of your replie and keep it for future reference if ever I move on to MAX.

Thanks again for your input.
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Errant AI
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 05:34
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If you can specify parent-child relationships, it's the same thing.
I would assume this is possible as people have created hierarchical weapons and objects using Milkshape in the past.
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maho76
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Posted: 14th Sep 2012 12:36
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just to mention overall that transparency in fpsc only works for shaded statics & segments, shaded nonstatics are not allowed to show up behind transparent meshes/surfaces. good to see in the waterfalls of the metro-theatre pack. for some reason it seems to work with nonshaded or also transparent nonstatics or maybe only characters, i dont know (some samples you can find in screenshots in habitat-thread). i havent test but thats what i saw over the time. also there is a difference in fpe-settings of transparency, using trans=1/2 or 4/5, seems to get different effects with it.

maybe i am totally wrong with that in your problem, i just want to inform you about (even if i think errant knows much more about it than anyone else^^).

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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 15th Sep 2012 00:26
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Sorry for late reply.

Errant AI
If so, I'm afraid I do not have a clue how to achieve this and would that have been using transparency or just solid objects?
However, I will take another look into this.

Maho76
Sorry I should have included this in the first post, I am not including texture maps for shaders with this model, just the one texture file.
I will however test the values '4/5' in the gunspec with what I have so far because I did not know these values could be used.

Thanks again for your input and I will post any findings I get.
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Errant AI
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Posted: 15th Sep 2012 01:44
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Did some basic googling around and it seems you're right about MS3D. Looks like the closest thing is called "joints" in Milkshape.

This would be for mixed transparent and solid parts so that the translucent object correctly draws the solid object behind it (as you would expect to see).

HUD weapons sort of play by different rules than segments and world objects. I don't think they're even drawn with the same camera since the FOV is different.
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 15th Sep 2012 15:02
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Maho76
I tried the transparency values 4/5 which did not help in this case but thank you for pointing out that these values can be used.

Errant AI
Thanks for taking the time to have a look around on this subject.
I have decided to just supply a animated 'entity' prop of the model which works 'OK' but have given up on the pickup weapon HUD version (for now).

Cheers again for all input on this subject.
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Kuryle
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Posted: 13th Oct 2012 23:52
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I have problem with semi transparent texture on model, I don't want make new thread, so...

I have made a texture for my bottle model. texture is in dds DTX5, alpha chanel have grey color. This model have: outside mesh (for glass) and inside mesh ( for liquid). Glass should be transparent

As you can see in blender...

[img]null[/img]

... and in FPSC



I tried many options, no good results.
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 15th Oct 2012 02:51
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Kuryle

Have you tried setting the 'transparacy value to '2' in the FPE file?
This will at least give you transparancy for the outside part of the mesh.
Have you read and understood all the posts in this thread because 'Errant AI' gave a possible solution to the problem but it depends on which modelling sofware you are using and the features available in that software.
I never did get the result I was looking for (same as you want) but my software (Milkshape) does not have the feature that I needed to test it with.

All the best of luck.
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Kuryle
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Posted: 18th Oct 2012 15:26
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Hi, Ross tra damus !

I have made various tests, and I know one thing... bad models (I was on good way in my investigations). I used to do them in blender (with very good DirectX plugin, that), So I never thought that this could be the fault of it, especially since the rest of them work properly. Anyway, thanks for help, and response.
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