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Geek Culture / I GOT A Wii!!!

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 04:53
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Quote: "Lol, no, a computer cant. Consider all of the background apps and processes running. That and consoles are designed for the sole purpose of playing games...mostly."


If they can't now, give it a few months and your consoles will look old That's what always happens, and it will happen again.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Osiris
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 05:59
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Its gonna take longer now because of Vista and it massive memory hunger...Xp might be able to play some games from next gen, but they will never be as good or as smooth for a long time, cuz think about it, the 360 has three cores and two graphics cards, with no background processes.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120....
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 06:51
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But that same technology is out there for computers already. Yes, it's expensive, but that's because it's not being pumped out on a production line 1000's of units a day all integrated into a shoebox sized computer case. They could mass manufacture a computer similar to an Xbox for the same price... but there goes all expandability and servicability.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 09:18 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 09:31
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IMO RE4 on the PC is glaring proof that PC's can't do everything that consoles do. One good example, control schemes.
I'm using the default keyboard controls - and on the GC there would often be sub-parts of the game where you have to run, or avoid things, usually by bashing the big green button until it tells you to hold the shoulder buttons together. It's very clear what you have to do on the gamecube, it shows you the buttons, clearly marked, and the sub games don't detract from the gameplay at all.

Now on the PC, you don't have a big green button, or shoulder buttons, unless you go buy a controller, but even then, those button displays are absolutely diabolical. They got rid of the graphics and instead we get a number, like 3 and 6, 4 and 5, 1 and 7. Now who could possibly remember what every button is numbered, be able to press them fast enough in the sub sections, and be able to do this several times in a row!. It's really guess work, but the whole control system is like that. WASD to move and turn, Arrow keys to look around (not aim). To aim, you hold down shift, aim with WASD, and shoot with Enter.

It could have been very cool, aiming and shooting with the mouse would have added a whole world of accuracy and speed, but they'd rather we make do with analogue keyboard controls, so your constantly zipping back and forth when going for a head shot (like some demented kid teasing a cat with a laser pointer). The PC version is brand new, GC was back in 2005 - the PC version could and should have been an amazing game, it's like having the best apples in the world, then using them to make the worst apple pie in the world.

Jeku, that is one helluva pretty game, but I still say RE4 has it, the atmosphere that all the graphical elements create is just second to none IMO, probably an unfair comparison given the vast differences in game style.


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Kentaree
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 12:31
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I'm quite bored of my Wii at the moment I'll admit, but it still has the makings of a great console. The WiiMote is obviously a great innovation, which can be used for a lot of things that neither other console can do, it's more powerful than the original XBox, which in general had worse graphics than the Gamecube which was lower specced, so as long as you don't care about HD graphics, and normal maps from here to kingdom come (GoW anyone?) it's got the potential to be great.
It's also got the best 3rd party support since the Snes console, which means that soon(!) more games will start appearing, including less gimicky ones that will hold people's attention more.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 13:00 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 13:05
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Quote: "If they can't now, give it a few months and your consoles will look old "


You are missing the fundamental point here - it's not about the hardware. The PC will *ALWAYS* be a step ahead of any console, it will always be faster and have better -potential-. That isn't and never has been the debate - the debate is over the quality of the GAMES that come out, and games consoles just get the best, simple as that.

It is a very widely held belief that PC gaming is commercially pretty dead at the moment. Lots of game stores focus specifically on carrying the console ranges and care very little for PC games - you can see this in evidence in most stores around here, Virgin, HMV, WHSmiths, Game, etc. The PC sections are pitiful. This isn't just my own opinion either - Microsoft announced recently that they saw Vista and the whole 'Windows for Games' program as a way to encourage PC games sales back up again. Read any trade publication (MCV for example) and they'll tell a similar story. Very few really top quality games are developed for the PC *first*, a lot of them come to the PC from the consoles. There are always exceptions to this statement - Half Life 2 for example was PC only, but now it's on 360 too. Crysis was supposed to be PC only, but is also now coming for the 360 - but on the whole the PC gets drip-fed the console remains, rather than the other way around.

It is the sheer variety in possible hardware that could be inside a PC, and the piss poor 'interface' (read: no guaranteed joypad support) combined with low sales figures that forces the vast majority of top games to be console based only. It is the standard hardware, the standard interface and the mass market that makes it worthwhile developing for.

I'm not saying there aren't any PC games, because there are loads of them - but of the variety and quality you can get on consoles? That's a different matter. You won't be seeing Resi Evil 4, Super Mario Galaxy, God of War, the new Virtua Fighter, any of the latest Tekken games, Pikmin, virtually any Nintendo game, etc on the PC. And it's got nothing to do with them not being 'powerful' enough.

Never trust a computer you can't throw out of a window
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David R
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 13:16 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 13:17
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Well yeah; consoles must be heaven to develop for, I mean, the current crop are interesting and powerful - not to mention that they're all (essentially) the same (In terms of all the consoles of a certain type being exactly the same). No different configs to cater for or different hardware. How it plays on your dev machine will be exactly how it looks on everybody else's console.... That sounds pretty damn convenient to me


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
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Van B
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 13:41
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Quote: "You won't be seeing Resi Evil 4, Super Mario Galaxy, God of War, the new Virtua Fighter, any of the latest Tekken games, Pikmin, virtually any Nintendo game, etc on the PC. And it's got nothing to do with them not being 'powerful' enough."


Hehe, you've not been reading my posts Rich, shame on you!

My last few posts have been nothing but bitching about the port of RE4 on PC. Yeah bitching but I'll still play through it - what am I like .


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 14:55
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Quote: "Hehe, you've not been reading my posts Rich, shame on you!"


Edits 4 to 5. Point stands

Never trust a computer you can't throw out of a window
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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 18:27
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Exactly--- I know for a fact that developers give all the love to 360, PS3 and PS2. Then Xbox, then PC & Gamecube. The problem with PC games in the eyes of developers is they release it with the mentality that it can always be patched later. There are tighter restrictions on consoles--- i.e. you can't patch PS2 games for example. That's been changing with the 360 allowing patches, but I'm sure Microsoft fines them big time for serving each one up.

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Appleseller 154
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 18:49 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 19:01
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Quote: "The Gamecube is the king of last-gen graphics because of RE4, there's no better looking XBox or PS2 game, period."


take a look at ninja gaiden black screenies do nothing for it. but it looks better then many xbox360 games even has easily has one of the most solid engines ive seen in a game which i can't say the same for RE4

Edit: Just Checked And The Wii Is Less Powerful then the xbox but more powerful then the gamecube /Edit:

last gen
xbox - most powerful
gamecube- second most powerful
ps2 least powerful

how ever alot of games only looked beter because they are cartoony yes i know RE4 was realistic and theres more out there i know but in general

This Gen (next Gen)
Xbox360 - Most Powerful
PS3 - Second Most Powerful
Wii - Least Powerful

I Own All Three Xbox360 I have Not Stopped Playing PS3 I've played for2 days and got annoyed and bored (blu-ray fails in comparison to HDDVD) wii i got bored of playing on my own after 2 weeks but is always fun with friends

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Appleseller 154
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 18:57
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Quote: "First of All, What are game consoles but simplified computers? If a Gamecube can do it, then a computer can. If a xbox 360 can do it then a computer can. (see were I am going)"


Ya I Do See Were You are going but your arn't looking at the whole picture

I love my computer gaming don't get me wrong but there not the same at all take a look at Fear for the 360 and the computer i had it for PC thanx to a friend and i put it at max everything getting 62 fps te graphics were great but when i bought it for my 360 the graphics were even better

this is because the programers don't need to make adjustments so that many different systems can play it they know the specs the people will be using

reason 2 for consoles to be different is online gaming which the xbox live destroys all in features and preformance and the great decreasing of cheaters

any person who knows a little programing can inturn write an app and cheat on pc games far more

pcs can do alot playing games is one of them but can't be compaired to consoles

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:58
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This is all personal opinion... starting now:

Yes, unfortunately consoles do control the market. From the viewpoint of a gamer (not a developer) I'd love to never see another console again actually, but I know that won't happen. In comparison to computer gaming, I hate console gaming. The games are just not usually quality in comparison. They may be awesome the first few months they come out, but after that, it's all blah blah, same old. Technology starts to look lacking. The controls are difficult to master with those little tiny analog sticks. I am fairly decent at shooters on my PC, but slap me in front of Halo on the Xbox / 360 I look like a total noob. That may change if I played them more, but it's still very difficult, sniping especially. Heh, the rounds that didn't require me to have dead on aim, I owned at (those energy sword only matches). My friend was rather surprised after he saw me being utterly decimated at the sniping only deathmatch rounds previous to that.

Any console I've ever had after the age of 10, has entertained me for the length of beating each game once. Yes, sure I'd once in awhile go back and play the games again, maybe even play through them again. But PC games, I can just keep coming back to. They hold my attention so much longer. The controls are more agreeable, the graphics are sharper, cleaner, and crisper (comapared with console games from similar timeframes). For instance, I bought my GameCube and a few games. Aside from Metroid Prime 1&2, and Rogue Sqadron (the first one on the GC) I have never returned to beat any games again. They just don't have any replay value to me. Everything feels so limited. Serious Sam 2 was destroyed for PC gamers because it was designed for consoles as well. There were invisible walls everywhere, the graphics, while good, were completely cartoonified. The physics were good, but for some reason, there was barely any ragdoll.

It's a shame RE4 ported to PC was so bad. There was no reason for it to be. It could have been far better. The controls you outlined sounded horrible. They could have integrated the mouse and it would make a world of difference. I wouldn't even think about buying that game if I tried a demo with controls like that.

Anyhow, that's MY view on the evil's of consoles from a gaming aspect.

Developing aspect, I'd be all for it. It sounds wonderful. Everything being the same and all. I can understand why consoles do so well. No one has the fuss of upgrading every 6 months. You just pop the game in and play. For those types of people, that's great, but to me PC gaming just has an edge for being all around better, especially as the "next-gen" consoles get older.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Miguel Melo
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 23:09
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Quote: "Aside from Metroid Prime 1&2, and Rogue Sqadron (the first one on the GC) I have never returned to beat any games again."


You mean you actually played through Metroid Prime 1 and 2 twice??? Here is the patience of the saints...

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Code Dragon
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 23:21
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There's a reason console games don't have much replay value, they want gamers to get bored after awhile and buy more games. Consoles themselves are a great idea, they way the games are designed could be better.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 23:27
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You mean you actually played through Metroid Prime 1 and 2 twice??? Here is the patience of the saints... "


Heck yeah, 2 awesome games.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 00:32 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2007 00:35
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I think it depends on what style of game you really enjoy most. If you are an MMO or an FPS fan, then of course you'd favour a PC over anything else. Or if you rarely game with another person that is in the same room as you.

There are just some types of game the PC doesn't do very well (and never has imho) - name me a single *decent* beam-em-up that felt as fluid as Tekken or VF?! Or a snow boarding game on par with SSX? Or a racing game that didn't require a whole steering wheel on your desk to offer as fine grained control as the likes of NSF Carbon. Or a really quality platformer (released *since* the early Epic Megagames days!)

It's annoying that PC game devs cannot *rely* on the owner having a gamepad for their PC, let alone one with analogue sticks on it, so they can't create control systems the likes of which make the above mentioned games so fun and fluid to play (personally I favour a gamepad over a keyboard/mouse for every single style of game other than FPS/RTS)

Then add in the 'social' aspect of the console.. the ease with which two (or more) people can sit together, joypad in hand, and enjoy some truly superb two player madness together. Again that is something the PC neglects badly (for similar control issues I expect).

In most previous computer hardware you again had a relatively standardised set of hardware (Spectrum, C64, Atari ST, Amiga, etc) and again you had a standard set of inputs (joystick..wayhey!) that meant developers had far less to worry about - beyond cramming a full arcade port into 512KB and an 16Mhz CPU that is - but the openness of the PC just blew this all away.

I can name more console games that I play and love than I can PC games - probably many many times over infact. And it's not because the PC can't do them - it's because it just doesn't. PC gamers are the minority when it comes to variety, and pretty much always has been. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 01:25
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There's no reason nowadays why a PC can't have a fun beat-em-up like Mortal Kombat or Tekken. Certainly those games are best played on a joypad, I won't fight you there. There are good games to have joypad controls. 3rd and 1st person games are not among them. 3rd person adventure games are good with them though. As long as no super accurate aiming is involved.

Anyhow. Personally, if there were beat-em-up games on the computer nowadays (good ones) and I wanted it, I would go and buy a joypad or 2. With USB ports you can have more than one player and on a big computer screen it could be very very fun. Yes, that would be more for a serious gamer though.

You are right, and after posting my previous reply, I got to thinking, that yes consoles are good for something. That is the social aspect, playing with other people. Things like Mario Party, Mario Kart, beat-em-ups, etc. That's what consoles SHOULD be all about. But again, there is no reason why those games can't be on computers.

Perhaps if they standardized computer joypads in some way. I dunno. Logitech needs to get contracts with big game companies or something to design these types of games around a new joypad or something. That way you could buy the logitech gamepad and you'd be guaranteed games released by these companies would be compatible.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 02:22 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2007 02:23
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Quote: "This Gen (next Gen)
Xbox360 - Most Powerful
PS3 - Second Most Powerful
Wii - Least Powerful"


Sorry I think your wrong here. Anyone could see that the PS3 is more poweful then the 360! So your list should read

This Gen (next Gen)
PS3 - Most Powerful
Xbox360 - Second Most Powerful
Wii - Least Powerful


http://ideal-entertainment.galekus.com
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 02:27
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Quote: "Anyone could see that the PS3 is more poweful then the 360!"


Care to explain?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 02:34
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Quote: "There's no reason nowadays why a PC can't have a fun beat-em-up like Mortal Kombat or Tekken."


Technically? I agree totally, the PC is MORE than capable.

Will it happen though? Nope

Quote: "Perhaps if they standardized computer joypads in some way. I dunno. Logitech needs to get contracts with big game companies or something to design these types of games around a new joypad or something. That way you could buy the logitech gamepad and you'd be guaranteed games released by these companies would be compatible."


The problem is that by doing this, you fragment an already ailing market. If every PC *came* with a 'Standard Logitech Gamepad', and if you simply couldn't buy a PC without getting one, then developers could code safely in the knowledge that their latest kick-ass snow boarding game would actually be controllable.

The reality sadly is very different. It's the whole 'PC' (personal computer) concept itself (i.e. open architecture) that killed it as ever being a serious console challenger (well, outside of countries like Korea anyway!)

Re: social gaming - I do have found memories of death-match Doom at University, with giant PCs bound together via network cables. I guess Lan events today are similar to that - very social, but also very geek. Not a comparison to sitting comfortably on your sofa, beer to hand, infront of a huge HD TV and settling into a monster gaming session with some mates. Anyone can pick up a PS2 joypad and play a game - even my Mum but could she WASD her way around a HL2 deathmatch? Like hell

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 02:55
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Quote: "Care to explain?"

Isn't it obvious? Do I need to explain?

Quote: "Anyone can pick up a PS2 joypad and play a game - even my Mum but could she WASD her way around a HL2 deathmatch? Like hell
"


I agree and I don't. WASD Sure Mum couldn't do but one look at a PS2 controller would be worse! That's what I like about the Wii-mote! It's simple!




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Appleseller 154
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:03 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2007 03:03
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Quote: "Sorry I think your wrong here. Anyone could see that the PS3 is more poweful then the 360! So your list should read"


Well Now That All 3 Are Out You Can Check The Specks I Have All 3 And The 360 Is More Powerful hardware wise ps3 original specs blew 360 out of the water but that has changed when sony relised no one would pay $1000

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:16
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Did they change the specs? Okay so does it still have 4 cores? Lol sorry about that but I couldn't be bothered keeping up with the PS3 so I thought that the specs they have now (Which look very powerful) were the same as before! So the 360 is more powerful then the PS3?...




You sure?




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Antidote
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 04:35
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The problem with the PS3 very low bandwidth, so all that memory doesn't mean anything.


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Appleseller 154
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 04:43
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its not a regular processor its a cell procesor

the reason the ps3 is so expensive is blu-ray but they released crazy huge specs but couldn't preform

you should see comparasin screen shots of games like tony hawk 8 and fight night to see a huge difference in quality

yes i know ps3 hasn't been out as long thats why it doesn't look as good but fight night came out the same time after realease for both systems

plus if you play online ps3 is free because they don't support it they expect the companies to host it them selves were xbox live you pay for much better service

wanna here the craziest fact Grand turismo HD when playing the game you can't unlock anything you have to pay to unlock stuff yes with real money and to unlock everything it will cost just under $500(latest fact was reported on G4tech TV haven't double checked that)

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 05:05
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Quote: "wanna here the craziest fact Grand turismo HD when playing the game you can't unlock anything you have to pay to unlock stuff yes with real money and to unlock everything it will cost just under $500(latest fact was reported on G4tech TV haven't double checked that)
"


...whhaaaaaa?! Just go take that 500 dollars and save it up for a REAL car.

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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 05:31
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Thats gay. Completely gay.

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Krilik
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 06:32
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Quote: "plus if you play online ps3 is free because they don't support it they expect the companies to host it them selves were xbox live you pay for much better service"


Paying for things that people like me don't use.

Quote: "wanna here the craziest fact Grand turismo HD when playing the game you can't unlock anything you have to pay to unlock stuff yes with real money and to unlock everything it will cost just under $500(latest fact was reported on G4tech TV haven't double checked that)"


This is just flatout false. In fact, GTHD is FREE, completely free. As in you turn on your PS3, go to the Playstation Store and download it. Polyphony scrapped the project and decided to focus on just completely GT5. So they released it on the PS Store for free afterward.
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 09:44
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Quote: "Isn't it obvious? Do I need to explain?"


Yes, explain. I want to hear in your words why the PS3 is "more powerful" than the 360.

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Redmotion
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Posted: 28th Feb 2007 22:19 Edited at: 28th Feb 2007 22:21
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Xbox360 has better graphics performance and better CPU performance according to this article:

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html - mind you it was made in 2005.

Krilik is correct - there was such an uproar about GTHD that they ditched the idea about buying the cars and left that version as a kind of techdemo.

Read this article - it has info regarding Sony considering ditching the backwards compatibility worldwide:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2007-02-28-europe-ps3-chip_x.htm

Quote: "USA TODAY: The European PlayStation 3, set to go on sale March 23, won't carry the chip for PlayStation 2 and will instead use special software to play PS2 games, saving costs and making mass production easier by reducing parts, Sony Computer Entertainment spokesman Daisuke Nakata said Wednesday, while refusing to say how much the move will save.

"The method used for playing PS2 games is going to be different," he said. "We also want to concentrate on developing PS3 games."

It's still undecided whether PS3 machines for Japan, U.S. and elsewhere will also be sold without the PS2 chip, but the option is being considered, Nakata said."


Still, doesn't change the fact that last years best exclusive games were on PS2 and Wii (<- just trying to stay on topic ) - maybe Xbox360 had a couple of good ones too.

I think Cell was a huge mistake - Sony wanted to avoid millions of dollars worth of european taxes by proving the PS3 is a "computer" but I'm sure they'll fail at proving it like they did with PS2.

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