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Newcomers DBPro Corner / Basic or C++?

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Inverted
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 05:19 Edited at: 21st Feb 2007 08:55
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Well iv been reading a few posts and am wondering,
Im xx yrs old (I know i shouldent post my age but it pertains to my question) if i should start coding in basic or C++. I understand C++ is harder than Darkbasic but if im thnking of going into the gaming business what should I start doing?

Thanks,
-Inverted

Mod Edit: Sorry - absolutely no exceptions to the rule about posting your age - it's for your own safety. TDK_Man

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 06:28
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Start with learning a few BASIC's... then branch out to other languages.


PB V1.63 Released - Hardware Acceleration In Progress - Available soon !
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Inverted
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 16:01
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Thanks Kev.

Does anyone here use C++ though? just wonderin because i have a few questions about it

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 16:10
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I know the basics of it.. ask away...

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Soroki
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:03
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I am learning from a site calledhttp://cprogramming.com

It is pretty helpful, and I have made a little progress, although I don't have enough knowledge to help out. I am thinking of moving to DirectX programming. It sounds like fun, although it is probably grueling, and I have seen some very impressive games done with it.

Someone once told me to shoot for the moon, and that even if I missed I would still land among the stars. I tried it, and I missed the moon, but I didn't land among the stars. I hit the freaking sun!
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:15
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CProgramming is where I learned from too

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Soroki
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:18
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Would you recommend moving to DirectX? I was thinking of that, OGRE, or just learning OpenGL.

Someone once told me to shoot for the moon, and that even if I missed I would still land among the stars. I tried it, and I missed the moon, but I didn't land among the stars. I hit the freaking sun!
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 21st Feb 2007 20:32
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People have recommended OpenGL - thought I have heard it is much harder to learn (because it is more flexible) so really it's up to you. I don't think it would do much harm to learn the simplest first, just to get used to the basics of graphics programming.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 03:37
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I know C++.

Im not an expert, but I use it everyday, and have developed a few plugins for dark basic professional. If you have a question, feel free to ask me.

Here is a list of languages you should learn.
STARTING WITH
DarkBASIC Professional (Because it illustrates types, and gets you into one of the hardest fields of computer programming (Game programming))
C++ (Because it is standard, and teaches you more about how things are programmed)
x86 ASM (I think everyone should learn ASM. It teaches about the hardware. Its quick, and everything stands for a machine instruction)
ENDING WITH

You can also get into HTML programming, which is just web page programming. Anyone, at any age over or at 7 should be able to understand HTML (Or at least learn it).



Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 15:51
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Thanks DB User,
I have questions:

1) do you code in c++ in an editor like in DBP
2) How much do these cost

ill ask more later,

I'v g2g

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 16:14
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There are many IDE's for C++. Visual C++ Express is free, and it's awesome to use.

DBpro: whatever you payed for it.
C++: Free if you want
ASM: Dunno

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GatorHex
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2007 16:44 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2007 16:50
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If you code in Visual C# Express / XNA it will take you 1 year to have a game.

If you code in DBP you can have a great game in 2 weeks http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=100011&b=32

I've done the C thing, i have a bunch of high level qualifications, but I still prefer to code as games in DBP as fast as possible, life is too short for C#.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 01:52 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2007 01:54
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I code in Dev-C++ for C++. There is also Visual C++.... But I dont really like that much, and, C++ is free. http://www.bloodshed.net.

As for ASM, I use NASM. Its free, and open-source. There is also MASM, and other free assemblers, and many tutorials are available for it.

Download NASM here.

Enjoy some tutorials here.


Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 02:07
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Wow you guys are awesome!
Whats the dif between visual C++ and just C++

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 03:19
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The syntax is differant.

Personally, Dev-C++ (Just C++) is much easier to setup and use, compared to visual C++. (I have both)

However, Visual C++ also offers an editor for your windows, and gadgets with it, but, now so does Dev-C++... In the form of "wx Dev-C++".

There is one problem I experience with Dev-C++, and that is that you can not have any spaces in your file names.


Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 03:51 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2007 03:51
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What would you recommend for a nubie like me?
And where can i downlaod them if they are free

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 04:09
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I would recommend Dev-C++.

You can download Dev-C++ here.

You can download extensions for Dev-C++ [jref=http://www.devpaks.org/]here[/href].



Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 04:19
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Awesome DB user 2006+,
One more thing; can i create good games, like awesome FPS's and such with C++ like after 1 or 2 years of hardcore practice is it possible? Because i want to be learning c++ to be able to make games.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 05:07
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Well... yeah.

Well, that all depends.

Hardcore practice depends how long.

And it also depends on what SDK you are using.

I recommend Irrlicht, available here. It's 100% free.

And much better than DBP (In my oppinion, no offense anybody).

But, you have to remember, Irrlicht is a 3D Rendering Engine. Not a full-fledged game developing environment.


Cheers,

-db


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The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 05:35
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Definetly go with irrilicht its really good! As for an ide well I have visual c++ 6 and 2003 but I still spend a fair amount of time in dev-cpp for gp2x development(really cool homebrew handheld by the way) and also if you ever use a graphics api(directx, opengl) I highly recommend openGL I think its simpler to understand and if your into cross-platform development.



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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 06:06 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2007 06:06
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I have a question too...I've heard that Java is easier and better than C++ but is similar. What exactly is the difference between the two, and which is easier?


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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 06:37
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I dont know Java, but I think C++ is the second quickest language. Also, I dont think that easier necessarily means better. As programmers, you eventually need to learn how the file formats you code for work. Same as Operating System. This is why I like C++, and x86 ASM.

As for the OpenGL/DirectX API:
OpenGL is definately easier, however, DirectX is also really good. As stated before, easier doesnt mean better. However, with the 2 APIs, you are encouraged to learn OpenGL first, then learn DirectX.

Also, DirectX is more than a renderer, it is also an input API, a sound API, etc.




Cheers,

-db


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Milkman
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 08:30
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Java I would say is slightly easier than C++ to learn and use, but if you are looking for speed then it is definitely not better. Java programs run on a virtual machine, so they are easily cross-platform. Because of this, however, they are generally quite slow in comparison to c/c++ programs (and of course asm ).

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Inverted
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 16:09
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DB user,
When you meen its a rendering engine,
would it be possible to load up models, texture them, apply animations on key presses, add npc's, add weapons; all in the code

Or should i overlook C++ cause that is what im trying to create



-Inverted

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Soroki
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2007 20:14
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I got Irrlicht, and I loved it. I have also heard that the OGRE engine is just as good, if not better. I might try it out. I have made much more progress doing C++ than I have with DarkBASIC Classic. I don't mean I have made anything useful, I mean that I am learning faster, if you can believe it. I don't have the money for DBP right now, and I don't want to be stuck using BASIC forever, even though TGC makes it pretty powerful. I am graduating high school next year, so I need to prepare for more difficult programming in college.

Someone once told me to shoot for the moon, and that even if I missed I would still land among the stars. I tried it, and I missed the moon, but I didn't land among the stars. I hit the freaking sun!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 00:41
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Irrlicht supports all that, just as DarkBASIC Professional's 3D Engine does. In fact, Irrlicht supports more than DBP.


Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 01:24
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DB user,
So if I really only want to program games then I should go with Irrlicht?
What do you think, just tryin to think of what i should start learning

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 02:27
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Start learning DarkBASIC Professional.

Practice DarkBASIC Professional everyday, until you learn what you think necessary about game programming.

Now, start with Irrlicht and Dev-C++. Irrlicht is much better than DBP's 3D Renderer, and its quicker too. You can sell Irrlicht games easier than you can DarkBASIC Professional's games.

Optionally, after all that, you can learn ASM, OpenGL, or Direct3D Programming. OpenGL and Direct3D are APIs, ASM is the assembler programming language.... Its not really a language though, because each instruction converts into an exact CPU instruction.


Cheers,

-db


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Inverted
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 06:04
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Thanks DB user, i really appriciate your help

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 06:06
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Its no problem at all.


Cheers,

-db


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Teonas Proclarush
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Posted: 24th Feb 2007 11:02
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It makes no difference at all... You might not be able to create the next killer game alone - at it is not the language, as commercial games are usually created by a team of 20-40 (the ones i've worked on), but it is not unheard of having a team size of 100 for EA - so you should not expect miracles... It is not C++, it is the knowledge of the programmer that matters. Sure, you wont get as much performance from the DBPro as from VS2005 so easily, but with a little work you can get decent framerates, and DBP is much better suited for a team of one or two - the hobbyist game programmer. So all it matters is the work you put into your project - create something, as it is THE ONLY way to learn to use tools. Use the right tool for the job... Just make sure that you are not competing with Microsoft, as they have more resources

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Inverted
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Posted: 25th Feb 2007 23:51
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I'm going to start learning C++, gonna go out and buy C++ for dummies. Then later on ill move onto Ogre


Thanks everyone, i appriciate your help

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Harrier
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Posted: 27th Feb 2007 15:28
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Hi

I would advise you to stay away from Dummies as it's not a very good book to learn from. Im a VB.NET and C# SHARP programer where I work with Visual Studio which is a great tool for new programers or buy book thats more hands on than as Dummies is not.

You would be better off picking VB.NET code as it's simple to learn and would help you get to grips with how program code works.

The way to programing is hands on work by making small applications and then build from there. The worst you could do is read a book thats not much hands on at all. The key to any new skill is: pratice, pratice and more pratice!
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