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Geek Culture / for the 690+ who voted to never upgrade check this out

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Tapewormz
22
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Location: Winnipeg, Mantoba, Canada
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:23
Check these screencaps for Flight Sim 10 out. They're DX9 vs DX10.


DX9 RENDER


DX10 RENDER

Have fun gaming in the past, while the rest of us forge ahead. I for one am looking forward to DBP X10 and FPSC X10.

BTW...The new animation enhancement for DBP looks fantastic!

Van B
Moderator
22
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:31
Nice example .

Ditto on the looking forward to DBProX10, got £300 from my yearly bonus earmarked for a 8800, or whatever is available in July.

It's funny how you used to get away with the simplest of water shaders, hell you were lucky if the water even had a reflection, never mind refraction and all that - nowadays we have water that looks like, well water! (rather than tinfoil).

Peeps should post any other contrast shots they have, I'd love to see more examples of what DX10 is capable of.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
El Goorf
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Location: Uni: Manchester, Home: Dunstable
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:33
Quote: "Check these screencaps for Flight Sim 10 out. "

why so much detail for a bloody flight sim?? you cant see anything from a mile high anyway...

http://notmybase.com/main
All my base are not belong to anyone.
dark coder
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Location: Japan
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:35
Those were posted ages ago on these forums, from what I recall the latter was an artist's rendition of what should be possible in DX10. Looking on the MS site now the pics look alot closer to the first one, mainly in respect to the water as they don't exactly have many screenshots.

Dazzag
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:36
Didn't we already have this most a few months ago? (I mean the identical shots comparison)

But yes, if it really does look like that when playing the actual game then is pretty sweet.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:38
Hah, beat me. But yeah, I remember something about an artist being a touch overenthusiatic or somesuch. Always the same with next gen stuff unfortuantly.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
indi
22
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 09:43
dang that is pretty, yummy!

hurry up terabyte hard drives, im buying a new machine very soon with a 1gig 8800 and twin terabytes, plus a quad cpu.

Darth Vader
19
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Location: Adelaide SA, I am the only DB user here!
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 10:09
The second one looks more like a photoshopped concept art piece!
Looks cool anyway! And I hope we get those sort of graphics with DX10!


dark coder
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 10:10 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 10:10
Identical




UnderLord
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 14:53
Yeah let me pull a few screenies off my game for you, it runs like poop on my machine considering that i can run oblivion on full settings, but i guess its the code, damn microsoft....

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 15:37
Erm.. That sky looks well different (fake) like somone didn't go to the same effor in the x9 version! I'm sure you could make it look similar with the same texture.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
Peter H
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 16:28 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 16:30
i'll bet you 50 tamales that it will be impossible to get that same shot on your system when you have the game.

I'm not against vista so much as i am against upgrading... sure if i buy a new computer that has it on it i'm not going to pay extra to downgrade to xp... but i'm not spending hundreds of dollars on a DX10 card and a new OS.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 16:38 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 16:38
Yeah, I'll just wait until I need to upgrade my PC (it dies / gets dropped) and it comes with a copy as standard.

I hate paying for the OS directly.

Also if you give it a year they will have all the bugs worked out hopefully

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
Manic
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Location: Completely off my face...
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 16:46
if only Vista wasn't burdened with so much DRM crap, I wouldn't have a problem with buying it.

I don't have a sig, live with it.
Vampiric
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 17:36 Edited at: 1st Mar 2007 17:36
And also only if the drivers for vista worked as fast as the ones on XP. My old XP got 89fps now on Vista I get 54. (Thats running on Ultra High setting )

Computer says n00bed
Jeku
Moderator
21
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 18:24
Quote: "dang that is pretty, yummy!

hurry up terabyte hard drives, im buying a new machine very soon with a 1gig 8800 and twin terabytes, plus a quad cpu."


Will MS even release Flight Simulator X on the Mac platform though?

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 18:43
doubt it, after all... it is microsoft


Dazzag
22
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Location: Cyprus
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 22:22
And? Google MS's Mac lab. Especially the bit about the networked minis. Tops!

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Benjamin
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Location: France
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 22:51
Quote: " i'll bet you 50 tamales that it will be impossible to get that same shot on your system when you have the game."

The one Darkcoder posted?

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Xenocythe
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Location: You Essay.
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 23:07
Looks amazing!!!

Wait, so does DX10 cost?

-Mansoor S.

(Formerly Xenocythe)
LD52
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Posted: 1st Mar 2007 23:40
I m going to get DX10 but not vista and to prove you don't need vista that much im going to install windows 95 and install DX10 onto it !!! I wonder if that will work !? probably not ...
Gil Galvanti
19
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Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 1st Mar 2007 23:47
I'd like to see an in game shot with someone running more 5 FPS with a shot like that. My good PC can't even run the current DX9 version in more than about 15 FPS, it's ridiculous, so I quit playing it.


indi
22
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 05:18
Ive sorted my mac side for the time being, time to upgrade the pc side of things, If i take an intel box this time round i can double up on the OS'es. All i need is 10.5 and vista for the next box and im set for while. I can also bonjour the new machine to the g5 gaining both as a cluster machine. yummy.

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 07:47 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2007 07:47
Why are people so gullible to believe it'll look like the second image posted? That's surely not a DX 10 render.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 07:58 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2007 07:59
that image is from this page.
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/articles/447226.aspx

same as these two erm fishys?



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Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:09 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2007 08:11
I'm still not buying into it until I've seen it myself. I do not believe it's an in-game render.

Also, the "Dynamic in-game scenarios" part of that page is bollocks. It's all hype, all of it.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
indi
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:11
when do you get a vista / 8800 machine benny ben ben?

Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:18
Indi, don't fall for stuff like this mate.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
dark coder
22
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 08:40
I don't think comparing Halo1 to Crysis is exactly fair considering Halo1 is 2 years old, and also the only native DX10 cards being the 8800Series currently which is a lot better than any DX9 cards, so they can afford to add more fancy shaders and use higher res maps.

Then about the fish,
Quote: "DirectX9 ‘simulates’ detail with techniques like normal mapping while DirectX10 actually increases the amount of detail in game characters and materials"

That's total BS, simulates detail with normal mapping?? relief mapping is very possible with DX9 and can even be done in DBP, you can't compare two very different shaders to one another, and I bet you if you applied that very same shader that the DX9 fish uses in DX10 you won't see any 'increases the amount of detail'.

Quote: "DirectX10 also offers more realistic looking shadows. Showcased below, in Picture 5 is a character with its shadow’s volume accentuated. The green light shows just how the shadow is created (depending on the light source) and how the shadow is featured on the ground. On DirectX9, the shadow volume is generated on the CPU, reducing performance for every new shadowed character on-screen whereas in DirectX10, the shadow volume can be generated and rendered entirely on the more-capable GPU."


What a load of BS, it's generated on the CPU only?? since when? even DBP has stencil shadows which look identical to the example picture they had and it runs very fast.

Then the Flight Sim Pics,

Quote: "In Pictures 6 and 7, we see artist conceptions of one certain Windows Vista wallpaper with mountains overlooking a water body. The artist renderings were created using Microsoft Flight Simulator X in DirectX9 and DirectX10 respectively. The dramatic differences are apparent. On first glance, you observe that the water looks a lot more real with foam and waves. DirectX10 makes new ‘volumetric effects’ possible, which in turn make the clouds in Picture 9 look thicker and more prominent while the scattering of light adds a great effect to the dark side of each of the mountain tops. You’ll also notice that the edge of the forest looks a lot more prominent and contains greater detail in Picture 7. Finally, in Picture 7, you see that DirectX10 allows for accurate reflections of the mountain even in choppy water while in Picture 6, DirectX9 provides a more plastic reflection."


'artist conceptions' ?? so that basically means that this screen shot was either edited from the DX9 version or is just complete BS, I've seen multiple sites discounting the authenticity of the claims to this pic, I've even looked at the Official Microsoft FLight Sim X page, and I look at the screen shots and see nothing even close to that pic, why is that?? could it possibly be because in game it looks nothing like that?

And I would blab on about the rest but I either have no idea about if they work in DX9 nor can I be bothered to find out.

indi
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 09:40
I had to do some googling to know for sure, if a few coders are that adamant about the above shot being fake in some way, it stands to merit to check it out yourself.

I have found one site that claims its a mockup shot which is disheartening.
Ive read over other sites that say it as a dx 10 render but doctored and that its a concept shot of what could be in dx 10.


http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/729/729154p1.html

comparing the shots to those above to the shots within this website clearly show a difference when there is a plane in the screenshot.
however there is two shots that look pretty amazing, yet they fail to have the same atmospheric ambience of the killer screen.
http://au.media.pc.ign.com/media/792/792287/img_3585407.html
http://au.media.pc.ign.com/media/792/792287/img_3949890.html

This FSX10 website
http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulatorx/screenshots.html#
has no visual images of those two shots, surely they would be up front inline to sell the product, but when you look at the flash based content there is a vast improvement in the landscapes so i guess there is some merit, however it does appear they are stretching the actual truth just a little.


I have the cash for my next rig, but this is going to sour my outlook for directx if they play games like this with shadow truths.

Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 14:26
it won't sour your outlook at all if you believe all of them.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
xtom
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 16:22
These shots always show off what can be done with the latest technology. But rarely does it end up as real time in-game graphics. So much time and effort is probably spent on getting one beautiful scene or demo to look that good, but when it comes to making the games they don't have so much time. It will probably take another year or two or more before in-game graphics catch up to the latest tech demos. Still it's good to see what we can look forward to.

heartbone
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 17:21
After seeing these same pictures for almost a year now,
you know what?
the sky and water actually look better in the DX9 version.

Agree?

That DX10 sky looks like a freaking renaissance painting.
I'd expect an arm to come reaching out any time.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 18:30
I absolutely don't agree. The DX9 version looks like everything we've been seeing in games for the past 5 years. The DX10 one looks realistic, in that I would love to hang out on that mountain.

David R
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 18:45
The latter is definitely a fake/an artists rendition. This floated by Slashdot aeons ago, and it was confirmed as not a DX10 render. Old news


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2007 19:49
i want my tamales back.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Dave J
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 02:35
Quote: "After seeing these same pictures for almost a year now,
you know what?
the sky and water actually look better in the DX9 version."


Funny.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
indi
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2007 02:57
I still would like to see those results in a game, perhaps thats possible in shader 4 technology but not straight away.

Tapewormz
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Posted: 26th Mar 2007 16:30
If anyone is interested. ALAN WAKE is going to use DX10. It's a survival thriller/horror about an author who's stories come true. There will be a dx9 version I'm sure since it's being released on XBOX360 also. More on Alank Wake here >> http://www.alanwake.com





Zappo
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Posted: 26th Mar 2007 17:35
For those who have upgraded to Vista already, or those who are thinking of upgrading, this article may be of interest:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=8767

Are Microsoft really expecting people to spend hundreds in upgrading their OS every two years?

Is Vista just a 'stop gap' like Windows ME was? (shudder)

Is the next version of Windows being refered to as 'Codename: Moneybags'? (Okay, I made this last one up)
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 26th Mar 2007 18:19
Just Cause looks good enough on DX9 for me.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Oneka
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Location: Hampton,VA
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 05:56
Sooo will the AGEIA card be actually worth buying anytime soon?

And for all you people, DX6 was the best ever...

Power of Direct X 6


omg I cant wait till that is out


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 28th Mar 2007 12:26
Whats the point in upgrading to Vista if Microsoft are going to bring out a new OS in 2 years? You'er just going to be paying another £400 just to run your games on. Maybe it wont matter to the guys who work all day and bring back tons of cash.

I'd rather stay with XP and play my old gen games on X9, because after you get vista, you still need a X10 card to play the games, so thats another £500.
BiggAdd
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Posted: 28th Mar 2007 20:11
You just have to look at the CryEngine 2 to see why DirectX10 is worth the money.

Screens

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 28th Mar 2007 20:17
That? Worth the money? It's hardly any better than quite a few titles on DX9 (and I don't care about vegetation that moves with me! If the game's boring enough to be able to notice that sort of stuff, I don't think I want to play it!)


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Chris Franklin_
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Posted: 28th Mar 2007 20:34
Quote: "That? Worth the money? It's hardly any better than quite a few titles on DX9 (and I don't care about vegetation that moves with me! If the game's boring enough to be able to notice that sort of stuff, I don't think I want to play it!)"


I hope that was sarcasm Crysis is gonna own even though apparentl there'll be a dx9 version as well so...

Kieran
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Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 21:26
i was so wrong....i thought i didn't want vista, but someone bought it for me so i decided to check it out. IT IS AWESOME! its got so much compared to XP, i love it also im saving for a DX10 card now

BiggAdd
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 03:38
I've got Vista Ultimate which doesn't work on my computer!! Which is weird as Beta2 and RC1 both work fine. I'll just have to save the pennies for a shiny new computer. Siiiigh.

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