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Geek Culture / Vista Sucks! Long Live Vista!

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heartbone
22
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 16:08
Yesterday because of a worsening motherboard hardware problem,
I realized that I'll soon need a new computer.

Then I had a revelation last night,
because I still need Windows
(I'd hoped that Play Basic was ported to Linux by now)
Vista was probably going to be on my next computer!

I'm still reading too much stuff like this though
Vista's long goodbye



I hope that this mobo will make it through the summer heat.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
JerBil
20
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Location: Somewhere along the Z axis...
Posted: 27th Mar 2007 16:15
No use worrying about what might be. Enjoy your new computer.

Ad Astra Per Asper
hyrichter
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Location: Arizona
Posted: 27th Mar 2007 16:19
If it's just the mobo, why not buy a new one and stick it in your computer? May as well upgrade the CPU while you're at it, but there's really no need to buy a whole new computer unless you want to.

Good performance is better than a good excuse.
CodeSurge -- DBP Editor for serious programmers.
heartbone
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 19:21
New MOBO = new Memory + New CPU
(and since I use 98SE probably a new OS as well)

I also NEED a new monitor too since my current one is starting to fail badly.

I also need a bigger hard drive.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
David R
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 19:26
Quote: "(and since I use 98SE probably a new OS as well)"


So um, whatever happened to "Win 98 is the best I'm never upgrading" attitude?


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
heartbone
22
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 19:35
David R your characterization is inaccurate.

However I remain steadfastly against forced obsolescence.

For example, on the the computer that I'm using Win98SE is the best choice by far for many reasons.

I think that I'm going to go out and try to find a decent new Windows XP system from a neighborhood type computer shop.

If there were Windows98 drivers for the latest gear, I'd get a plain box and load the OS on it.
But I am a realist.
Once Vista was released, then the manufacturer hardware Win9X/ME support was toast.
You know that there is only so many versions that they can afford to support.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Ron Erickson
Moderator
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 27th Mar 2007 19:36 Edited at: 27th Mar 2007 19:37
Quote: "So um, whatever happened to "Win 98 is the best I'm never upgrading" attitude?"


Sooner or later you are forced to if you want to run new stuff. And who wants to run only "old stuff" on a new computer.

It is a real dilema if you are thinking about buying a computer right now. I know I don't want to rely on Vista in a work environment yet, but who wants to buy an old OS that MS will shortly stop supporting altogether. Frankly, if I were in your shoes, I would buy a computer with Vista on it. Then as soon as I brought it home, I would install XP on it. After about a year of Vista service packs I would consider upgrading. If you don't already have a copy of XP though I think I would just bite the bullet and try to deal with the Vista issues. If you tried to install 98 on a new computer, who knows what kind of driver issues you would have to deal with.

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 27th Mar 2007 20:22
Quote: "(I'd hoped that Play Basic was ported to Linux by now) "


erm, what ?

jasonhtml
20
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Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 01:56
dude, Vista's awsome. i got home premium and it works great. i dont get why so many people bash it so much about its such minor problems. the only problem i have run into is that my mouse drivers still need maintainance, as the side buttons dont work.

Antidote
19
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 03:21
After you've used Beryl, Aero is just old news.


Manic
22
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Location: Completely off my face...
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 03:25
Quote: "its such minor problems"


it shouldn't have ANY problems, why are people so willing to accept faulty products?

I don't have a sig, live with it.
Zeus
18
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Location: Atop Mount Olympus
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 04:00
That bug isn't true. I don't have any problems with mine.

Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Mar 2007 04:38
I'm running on 256MB RAM, and while it does slow the entire OS down (or rather did before the released hotfix) when copying/deleting/installing software.. it's never crashed or hung on me.

I've been coding on it a lot with Windows SDK, and seriously not had any issues since release (business) in October 2006.

I think that most of what people complain about is actually stupid things. MacOSX vs Vista, slow performance, etc.

Most of it is just BS, which honestly who thought that this wasn't going to happen?

Personally I think it's the best Windows yet. Especially after a week of use, it's sodding quick with speedcache.

Jiffy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2007 15:23 Edited at: 28th Mar 2007 15:25
I'm loving Vista. UAC has become a minor annoyance but I haven't had a single crash, hang, or fault (exluding when I screwed it up after I installed a wacky driver but hey, Vista warned me that it was a bad idea and I pressed Continue so I count that as user error ).

And now that I think about it, going back to XP becomes incredibly frustrating because I find myself using the Search function in the Start Menu frequently and think it is incredibly valuable--and with the indexing, it's lightening quick.


Evil has a new name. Demo out now!
dab
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 05:51
Quote: "and with the indexing, it's lightening quick."


Lol, I've never used the latest Vista so I'm not trying to bash it, but I have a funny story about the search on a mac.

We were searching for a file on a mac, and right as we type the first so letters, the mac just "BAM!" came up with results. Unlike win xp that takes ages to search a few folders. I'm sure Vista fixed this bad search method though.

Steve J
18
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 29th Mar 2007 06:14
It did, it goes bam, comes up with results in literally milliseconds.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
DrewG
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 06:41
What Mac or Windows Vista?
Steve J
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 29th Mar 2007 07:13
Vista, amazingly fast system right now.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
SageTech
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 29th Mar 2007 07:21
I think vista looks promising, but Im staying clear untill its been out for alittle longer. The first few monthes are always bumpy for a new product, so its best to remain patient. That and Im poor right now.


Battle Legacy: Online Third Person Shooter
Look for it on the WIP Board!
Screwed Over
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 20:03 Edited at: 29th Mar 2007 20:05
i recently upgraded to vista after finding out i was possibly the only win2k user on the forum, and the only driver i had to install was the nvidia 2 beta drivers. and it is REALLY fast, i moved over 13gb in 30mins without the pc slowing the slightest (which disproves the snippet in your first post), if i were to try that on win2k it would of taken me days and frozen about 200 times, and its also really annoying having to go back to win2k for a few progs that wont work on vista such as power director and a few of my games, as it seems ridiculously slow and glitchy in comparison.

i also love live messenger as i was stuck with crummy msn 7.5 with win2k.


^Check out my new site!^
Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 20:04
Does vista even let you install on 256mb ram? XP won't even run smooth enough with that little ram. One report said 4gb was Vista's "sweet spot". Though I thought it ran ok with 1gb, it could've been quicker. Vista just doesn't offer anything new that I need, so why upgrade to something that needs more power/resources and doesn't give me any benefits?

Screwed Over
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 20:06
vista wont let you upgrade on 256 ram, it has to be 512 min, i know cos my friend was complaining about how he has to buy a load of new ram to install it.


^Check out my new site!^
Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th Mar 2007 22:46
Quote: "UAC has become a minor annoyance"


proper pain sometimes, especially when you have alot going on so it decides to just sit there with the screen dimmed while it waits for the message queue to catch up.

this said I totally love the new level of control you have over programs and user accounts with it.
sure *nix systems have had most of these for a while and tbh so has windows, but it's always been a pain to set it all up previously. now you can set everything directly with admin control on everything.

Quote: "We were searching for a file on a mac, and right as we type the first so letters, the mac just "BAM!" came up with results."


If you install Vista on a HDD with alot of stuff already, or you're accessing a drive it hasn't used before (this is particularly noticable moving from NT5.x) then the search system does take about 30seconds to find everything you might want.
Once the indexing has been set for each file though it's much quicker. Certainly not as quick as MacOSX tbh, however unlike OSX Vista will (by default, but can be turned off) also search all compressed (zip/cab) and documents for what you've searched for.

So performance wise, not so amazing as you'd hope compared to the competition but much more useful.

Quote: "vista wont let you upgrade on 256 ram, it has to be 512 min, i know cos my friend was complaining about how he has to buy a load of new ram to install it."


The installer won't let you upgrade or clean install with the default settings on 256MB RAM. It is possible though to change them and use it on as little as 128MB from what I've heard.
Personally I'm running on 256MB for the moment (see attachment), but despite not really having much slow-down or such will be adding some more when I go up to see my brother again and take back my computer.

There are some obvious copying of features and aspects from Linux and MacOSX, but personally I find this as a good thing. Nothing better than being able to work like I can on a Mac and also be able to run all of my Windows software that I find it difficult to live without. Something I like is unlike on the other OSs where they mimic features Windows has had in the past, you're not left feeling "hey this is trying to do the same job, but not quite as well", everything in Vista just feels very polished.

If Apple actually pushed forward initiatives for developers to get more games and general software on the platform now they support the x86 processor, we could see a good choice of which OS we want to use going on. Unfortunately this just isn't the case, and Microsoft have completely left them to the PPU realm for so long. Now Mac to me is becomming more of a label, than something that provides on better hardware for the job to the graphics industry.

Seriously has anyone noticed any difference in performance between Photoshop CS or Maya on Windows XP and MacOSX86? Cause I've been trying my best to see why a Mac is worth the extra few hundred bucks, and when Vista's OpenGL drivers start bringing Maya to that platform I honestly won't see any need for a Mac anymore.

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heartbone
22
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 23:27
I just purchased one of these two systems.

System B600 - SKU077735 $499.99 ($549.99- $50 rebate)
Microsoft Windows Vista Business

System B601 - SKU436659 $549.99
Microsoft Windows XP Professional (SP2)

Otherwise both systems are identical.

IntelĀ® Pentium 4 Processor 631 with HT Technology
Processor Speed 3.0GHz - 2MB Level 2 Cache
1024MB DDR2-667 RAM
160GB 7,200RPM SATA Hard Drive
8x Dual/Double Layer 18x DVDĀ±RW Drive
IntelĀ® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Realtek ALC888 High Definintion Audio Chipset w/7.1 surround
10/100 Network
(1) Serial 9-pin Port; (1) Parallel 25-pin Port; (1) PS2 Keyboard Port; (1) PS/2 Mouse Port; (1) VGA 15-pin Port; (2) Front USB 2.0 "A" Ports; (4) Rear USB 2.0 "A" Ports; (1) RJ-45 Network Port; (1) Microphone Port; (1) Audio Line In Port; (1) Audio Line Out Port
2 (1 free) External 5.25" Bays; 2 (2 free) External 3.5" Bays; 4 (3 free) Internal 3.5" Bay
1 (1 free) PCI-Express x16 Graphics Interface Slot; 1 (1 free) PCI-Express x1 Interface Slot; 2 (1 free) 32-bit Bus Mastering PCI Slots

My dialup modem and video digitizer will occupy 2 of the 3 free PCI card slots.
I'll add a second 160 GB HD, and that should do it hardware wise.

I also bought a nice looking Miro TD 690 19" LCD monitor for $179.99.

$729.98 system price
$ 19.99 extended warranty on monitor
$749.97 subtotal
$ 43.88 tax
$793.85 total

Now I should be set for another five years.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2007 23:52
I would've suggested a Core 2 Duo system, and one that is using the ATI Express graphics. That way it'd last til you can afford, or want to get a much better gpu.

That said the system probably as a mobo to support them.

bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 00:16 Edited at: 30th Mar 2007 00:23
Quote: "IntelĀ® Pentium 4 Processor 631 with HT Technology"


Well that's a dual core processor I believe, quite a sweet processor, one step under (pricewise) vs a core 2 duo. And I bet the speed difference is neglibible if not better than a low end core 2 duo..

As for the gfx card, I think he's referring to an onboard gfx adapter, hardly worth even mentioning. That system will really show off once you stick a good card in her

Not a bad buy, the price is good. Buying a warranty on a monitor is kinda silly tho... But 20 bucks it isn't bad.. unless it's from best buy

Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 00:18
Quote: "Buying a warranty on a monitor is kinda silly tho"

Why is it?

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 00:22 Edited at: 30th Mar 2007 00:23
Monitors already got a what? 2-3 year manufacturers warranty? The 20 bucks he spent will be straight profit from the company he bought it from.. (like most extended service plans)

Likely the warranty won't go into effect until after the manu warranty runs out. If the monitor makes it through the first year or two and doesnt fall victim to an accident, the thing's prolly gonna last forever

bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 00:31 Edited at: 30th Mar 2007 00:31
Sorry for the double post. Actually, I looked up the processor, nah, that's a pretty lowend processor. I was thinking of the Pentium D's. That processor should be pretty speedy, but not close compared to the newer ones

Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 00:35
Quote: "Monitors already got a what? 2-3 year manufacturers warranty?"

Not necessarily. Mine only had a 1 year warranty. Strangely enough it failed after the first month.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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heartbone
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Posted: 30th Mar 2007 04:28
The monitor has the printed bullet "- 3 year warranty" covered up on the box with a color matching sticker.
There is only a 1 year manufacturers warranty.
Not a good sign.

The monitor price was so nice that I figured for $20 I could double the warranty and still stay under $200 for a decent 19" LCD display.
And I won't have to mess with the German manufacturer if I need warranty service.

The processor is a Pentium 4 clocked at 3Ghz which should be over twice as fast as my current Athlon 1200 system. No Raven, it's not a 2 core Duo CPU, but honestly I really don't NEED the extra speed boost as much as I'd like to spend that Duo money elsewhere.

While at the shop I listened to some customers b|tch and moan about their problems getting their new Vista systems up to speed.
Mainly installation gotchas with old software, but one old guy was truly frustrated.

Much to the consternation of the salesman, I decided to forgo the $50 kickback given to consumer/testers of the business version of Vista.
The store only has a dwindling number of new XP systems remaining and for some reason the salesman seemed reluctant to let one go, trying to satisfy me with a refurbished HP media center unit.
It seems that I am not alone in desiring that my existing video digitizer, dialup modem, printer, scanner, cameras and vast array of existing software will function as needed without looking for support or spending on upgrades.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
heartbone
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 19:33
Long live Vista,
because when M$ goes to their next OS,
then XP support will surely wither.

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Samoz83
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Posted: 31st Mar 2007 20:28
Pentium 4 Processor 631 is not a duel core processor it just has Hyper-threading

SaM
www.firelightstudio.co.uk
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzjOcOcQ90U<<
heartbone
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2007 16:55
In emails to my friends, I predicted that hardware prices would start to go up, as part of my rationale for buying anew computer.

Remember that
System B600 - SKU077735 $499.99 ($549.99- $50 rebate)
system from last week?

It's now up 20% in price to $599.99.

First time in history computer gear price increases?

I'm unique, just like everybody else.
Deathead
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2007 14:35
That means FPScreator X10 wouldn't be playable well maybe for awhile though and then memory will start to deplete. Damn Microsoft! Or Vista!

PLS JOIN I really do

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