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Geek Culture / Website Help

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 01:31
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Hi there! Thanks for reading!
As the Thread title subtly suggests, I am in need of some website help.

All i want to know is this:



Say i have this template here, with links in the grey areas. How [b]do i load pages in the White area only?

Also is it possible to update links in the navigation bar without editing the code itself? Like in a .xml file you can add
Quote: "name: "home" link:"www.website.com/index""
?[/b]

Thanks for any help you give!

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GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 17th Apr 2007 02:58 Edited at: 17th Apr 2007 03:11
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Looks like you are using frames?

If so each frame has a name.

and when you make a link you add something like

<a href="http://free-legal-forms-letters.com/" target="_my-frame">

You can also use target to open up a page in a new window by using a name that isn't already defined.

Should warn you that many search engines cannot navigate frames and this kind of thing is better done with tables or perl/php/asp

If you can't do CGI but are lucky anough to have Dreamweaver it can help handle menus using a template and when it is updated all the pages that use it are updated also.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Phaelax
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 06:11
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You can do that using an iframe and some javascript. Using frames would be the easiest way, but most people frown upon frames.


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Steve J
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 17th Apr 2007 06:37
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AJAX is a possibility, quite easy. They click a link and it auto loads the content without pages reloading. Search it, quite useful for this.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 08:04
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Cheers for your help guys. I'll look into it.

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Josh
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Location: Pompey, Great Britain =D
Posted: 17th Apr 2007 09:59 Edited at: 17th Apr 2007 10:02
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Frames = EVIL

If possible create a dynamic page with PHP, rather than trying to mess around with old tech like frames, and incomplete tech such as AJAX.

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dab
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Posted: 17th Apr 2007 17:49
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Quote: "Frames = EVIL"

I agree. Search Engines think they are evil too.

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Steve J
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 07:54
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@Josh: Err...incomplete tech? Have I missed something or have you not realized this is over 5 years old? Its only now become popular, but the action fundementals = about 5 years ago it began being used. It is cross browser compatible as long as you use the various browser methods.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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Phaelax
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Posted: 18th Apr 2007 23:16
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The age of a technology doesn't necessarily mean its complete. CSS has been around for what, 10 years? Though CSS might be complete, since nobody can agree how their browser should render CSS its still a WIP. Though AJAX I don't see any issues like that arising.


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Josh
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 01:27 Edited at: 19th Apr 2007 01:31
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@ Steve J:

As far as I know (and I may be wrong), parts of 'AJAX' don't work in all browsers. And as web developers we have to code our websites to work with all the major browsers. So that's IE 5.5+, Netscape 6+ and Mozilla 1.0+. Depending on your user base of course, a website used by people from all walks of life (e.g. Amazon) should work perfectly in all of these browsers.

You say that it is cross-browser compatable, but which browsers does this cover? From the short amount of time I've spent with AJAX I have found it to be slightly limiting with what it can do, in fact I think the way we do things on the web really does need updating entirely, but that's another matter.

Please correct my if I'm wrong with any of this.

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Josh
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 01:33
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@ Pha:

Yeah things are beginning to become a bit of a joke with web dev really. If it wasn't for Microsoft we'd be in a much easier position now.

I like what the Mozilla team is doing, but I'm not sure it will be enough to force the introduction of the uniform standards we all need.

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Steve J
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 01:55
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Actually mozilla are losing standard track as well, and some of the other share holders like netscape weren't really better.

The cross browser coverage is mainly limited to recent browsers such as IE 6 + Mozilla Engines. IE 5 is not very supported. Try getting a few books on it, it really is useful once you know the little details on how it works.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
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VR2
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 03:22
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Ajax is seriously good for building web applications (rather than sites) but basically sticks 2 fingers up at accessibility, so out in the wild is used mainly for "effects" like google suggest.

"in fact I think the way we do things on the web really does need updating entirely, but that's another matter."

I felt so strongly about this that I decided to prove it by building a framework (not unlike Java or .NET) that could mimick a windows-like environment in the browser. I even had it able to draw 2d vector graphics and 3d wireframes (rather slowly)! I used it for a couple of projects and it was great (for web applications) but relied totally on javascript & Ajax - in fact the user never even got given a proper page, just a "boot strapper" which enabled JIT or "lazy loading" of only the code required. See attached screenie and see the page starts with just a button - everything else is loaded into the client via ajax.

Anyway, I got another job and they insisted I use ASP.NET Ajax instead. I mention this as its all for free (Server framework, client framework, IDE, help, community etc etc), you just need to find a host that supports it. They have a concept called "update panel" which you can think of as doing a "partial render" of a page, like windows does when rectangles become dirty and invalidated (ie your white area). If this isn't useful enough, when javascript is disabled it reverts to a full poostback so your site will still work with non ajax clients, thus you can accomplish full on ajax but still have accessibility. AFAIK no other framework offers this.

Having said all that, for what you've said you want here, I'd simply use an IFRAME.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 04:21 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2009 01:53
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This is all way too confusing for me! thank you for all your help anyway, maybe after my exams are over i will learn a bit of coding! Then i will be able to understand what you are all saying and how to implement this stuff onto a site!

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Josh
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 10:28
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hehe welcome to the world of web development!


@ VR2:

Sounds very interesting, never liked ASP though. You need a balance between features and complexity which is what PHP and related languages give you. Anyhow.

From what I've read about Mozilla Firefox it would be possible to write a plugin which replaced the Gecko rendering engine for particular `web pages`. (IE Tab replaces it with the IE engine for example.) So you could re-design HTML, JS, CSS etc into a workable format, so that you could build proper web applications. If it gained enough weight through some decent web apps using the plugin, then we might see some interesting things happening in the web browser industry.

[/ OFF TOPIC]

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VR2
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Posted: 19th Apr 2007 14:43
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@Josh

To be fair, Asp and Asp.Net are radically different things.

Also I hear what you are saying but the "Plugin" model is not realistic for general purpose web programming (anything other than an intranet), if that were so then all web apps would be written in Java or Flash. The reality is that is only the case when there is no other way (via DHTML or Ajax), or that is simply what the developer knows. Good examples would be anything that needed to do real time rendering as that is one thing ajax is not great at - although, as I mentioned, it IS possible in DHTML/Ajax.

I've attached another screenie of this functionality rendering a "DNA strand" which is a model loaded in from an xml file on the web server, and yes that number in the top left *IS* the FPS.

And that was the point of my framework, to deliver the absolute most user experience for the absolute least client specs, ie you get a full on "windows" type experience but with the client only needing a standard, default settings, web browser.

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